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THE AVENGERS (2012) Post-Release - Page 17

post #801 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

 

If we didn't before, we sure as hell do now.

 

FROM THE DIRECTOR OF "THE AVENGERS"

 

MUCH ADO ABOUT NOTHING

 

IN IMAX 3D

 

Heh. I will say that while it obviously won't *look* as nice as, say, Kenneth Branagh's version, I'm intrigued by how Whedon will adapt the play, and how his cast will tackle their respective roles.

post #802 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

How cool was it that Whedon had Stark make a reference to LMDs? That's a bullet aimed straight at the heart of long-time Marvel fans. No one else could have appreciated it.

 

All credit to RDJ's delivery, my wife and daughter cracked up, and they definitely do not know from LMD's. I had been as spoiler-free going in as possible, so that while I sort of suspected early on that the "Other" was Thanos, in the first post-credit scene, when the minion says that invading Earth would be "to court death," my delighted laughter was almost embarrassing.

 

Way late to the thread to contribute much: I was grinning ear to ear for the last 3/4 of the film, and I agree with (I think it was) Rain Dog that I'd rather a slow start/strong finish than the reverse.

 

The balancing act was really amazing, with so many quotable character moments and delightful visuals. Every time I think that one or another of the principals is the "real" star of the franchise, I think of something equally memorable from one of the others. I agree that Jackson felt like the weak point, but I'm never comfortable with pointing the finger of "phoning it in" (I don't pretend to have that much insight into someone else's mental processes); I do think he's playing the guy that Stark characterizes: the ultimate keeper of secrets, though I don't know I'd agree with all his acting choices in that. I did like his unapolagetic matter-of-factness when the WMD plan is revealed.

 

And I loved Black Widow: I don't know if this is something Whedon brought to the party (it feels like it would be), but the idea of her using her vulnerability as an espionage technique is much more interesting than just her (exemplary) ass-kicking; the loss of Emily Blunt is almost forgiven.  I think too highly of Renner to want to see him spend the rest of his career juggling action movie franchises, but I'd definitely be up for a Black Widow-Hawkeye movie.

 

One of my brothers texted me after he saw it: "Cap + Iron Man = Woody + Buzz."

post #803 of 2694

Such a nerdy question, I hate myself in advance, but here we go.

 

End of movie, Iron Man lies seemingly dead. Hulk roars at him, he pops up okeydokey. Did the Hulk's gamma radiation help re-power the ARC reactor? Was that part of why Stark was interested in Banner?

 

I started to pose that question to my wife, but since she hasn't seen the other movies and knows nothing about superheroes, it would have involved a long afternoon of charts, graphs, history books and the several issues of Marvel Age currently in my parents' attic.

post #804 of 2694

nerd+alert.jpg

post #805 of 2694

I think it was just a joke: Hulk's roar is so powerful it can revive the almost-dead.

post #806 of 2694

I think you're reading into it too much. Hulk's roar wakes him up - just a funny bit.

post #807 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by AA85 View Post

 

Again, Cap's character was fine.  But he does just about as well as BW and Hawkeye against the Chitauri.  More than that, I think I was hoping for some kind of big "hero moment" from Cap, like IM and Hulk got, seeing as he's ostensibly the leader.  Him barking orders or taking out a couple of the foot soldiers didn't really qualify for that, in my eyes.  Again, I still liked the movie a lot.

 

Rescuing all those people trapped in the bank didn't count?

post #808 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

nerd+alert.jpg

 

So's your face.

post #809 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misfit View Post

End of movie, Iron Man lies seemingly dead. Hulk roars at him, he pops up okeydokey. Did the Hulk's gamma radiation help re-power the ARC reactor? Was that part of why Stark was interested in Banner?

 

I'm not sure, but it seemed that the group was just standing around and doing a whole lotta nothin', all prepared to mourn Tony's loss. Then Hulk does something goofy to wake him up (I thought he was going to give him a solid chest thump instead of the roar), and Stark gives his hilarious little victory speech.

 

I'll be seeing this again and will pay more attention to that scene.

 

As far as Stark's interest in Banner, it seemed it was more of a "this guy is REALLY smart and worthy of my respect" kinda thing. That and his ability to turn into a big green rage-monster.

post #810 of 2694

Exhausted from trying to catch up on this thread!

 

I see this as the same kind of project as Jackson's LOTR; quibble wit the small stuff if you like but I can't see anybody doing any better right here, right now. It's the fully-conceptualized real deal. It's just too much fun.

 

What I liked best (and so did a lot of folks) was the Hulk. Whedon gets something that so many have failed to see - the Hulk isn't just Banner's anger, he's his complete Id. He's all of Banner's primal needs (including the noble ones) and he's also the man's swagger.

post #811 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

Forget Avengers 2 right now. Joss Whedon now has Fuck You money. I wanna know what his Inception's gonna look like.

Echo. I said the same thing in the pre-release. Bring your big original stuff first.

I guess the'll bring Avengers II earlier than 2016.

 

Also, Morena Baccarin is a good choice no matter if she is a whedonite or not. 

 

@Martianman I want chainmail and if they can improve the helmet bring it on.

post #812 of 2694

As an unabashed Cap fan, I think the film did the character a great service wrt the rest of the team.

 

Coulson, the audience identification character, positively swoons over him (to use the dialogue).

He gets a one on one with Fury...the other characters don't.

He gets a GREAT reveal in Germany vs. Loki.

When Stark and Banner discuss and use technology to find out what SHIELD is up to, Steve has already sleuthed the old-fashioned way and has the answer.

He gets his licks in during the verbal altercation with Iron Man (I know guys with none of that worth ten of you).

He deals with the "Everything special about you came out of a bottle."  Which is followed by:

Iron Man specifically calling him out as the leader after HULK appears.

He has the big hostage rescue scene, and he beats some ass quite well.

 

Yeah, he doesn't have the power of IM, Thor, or HULK, but he is still the heart of the team.  They didn't say it overtly, but no doubt his argument with Cap fed his decision to sacrifice himself to nuke the Chitauri (I guess nuclear deterrents do work sometimes).  I thought the film showed his role and ability very effectively.  With regards to his own action, he has his own sequel to showcase that.  How he relates to the team is what the Avengers showcased.  And that was about his leadership and commitment. 

post #813 of 2694
Quote:

Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post

 

I know guys with none of that worth ten of you

Thanks for calling out that line.  I was never able to hear it properly except for the "worth ten of you" part.

post #814 of 2694

It's a good line, mcnooj.  Considering the trailer only shows Stark's billionaire, genius, philanthropist line, I was happy there was a rejoinder.

 

To wit on my point...Cap's value in the team is about everything he was/is before "what came out of the bottle".  Just as wimpy Steve Rogers in the alley getting decked in his own movie...he doesn't give up.

post #815 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

Breaking news: Whedon just walked into the office of Fox TV's president, took a dump on the floor, and wiped his ass with thousand-dollar bills.

 

Why?  Is there some rift he has with Fox TV?

post #816 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post

 

And I loved Black Widow: I don't know if this is something Whedon brought to the party (it feels like it would be), but the idea of her using her vulnerability as an espionage technique is much more interesting than just her (exemplary) ass-kicking; the loss of Emily Blunt is almost forgiven.  I think too highly of Renner to want to see him spend the rest of his career juggling action movie franchises, but I'd definitely be up for a Black Widow-Hawkeye movie.

 

One of my brothers texted me after he saw it: "Cap + Iron Man = Woody + Buzz."

 

THANK YOU.  Just saw this yesterday.  Every auditorium with The Avengers was FULL.  That was four auditoriums, btw.  Never have I seen this town's own big cineplex that busy.  Astounding.  Now, just wish these people would go out and buy some comics, dammit.  But I'm digressing....

 

I thought Scarlet Johanssen nailed it.  While everyone is cheering about the Hulk, I was roaring for BW.  She surprised me!  As a matter of fact, it was such a welcome sight to see not just her, but two other strong, sexay and smart female characters in this film; albeit all too briefly.  I never thought I'd be so happy to see Gwyneth Paltrow, but when I saw Pepper, I smiled.  Loved the casualness now between her and Stark.  And "Phil".  And although I referred to her as Agent Exposition, Ms. Smulders as Agent Hill had her fabulous moments to shine, too.  That was the beauty of this movie: every single character had at least one moment...or two to really shine.  Every single character had a reason to be there on screen.  

 

And for geek-out-moments, there were aplenty.  I've got my Avengers comic books bagged and boxed, but I'm taking them out as the boyfriend has never read an Avengers comic.  I even have the Infinity Gauntlet mini series and he needs to read that now, evidently.  But as for movie moments, they've probably been all mentioned already in this thread, eh?  The moment I love is when Cap took over as defacto leader and they began behaving as a team.  THAT right there, excited me the most.  

 

There are two movies I'm seeing again this week:  this one and Cabin in the Woods.  Whedon, you magnificent man for exceeding expectations.  What a fantastic movie experience that was. Haven't had a time like that since maybe, Raiders of the Lost Ark.   

post #817 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by smugbug View Post

 

  What a fantastic movie experience that was. Haven't had a time like that since maybe, Raiders of the Lost Ark.   

HAHA!

post #818 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by cccc View Post

Why?  Is there some rift he has with Fox TV?

"That's a joke, son."
post #819 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by cccc View Post

 

Why?  Is there some rift he has with Fox TV?

 

See: Firefly.

post #820 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post

 

See: Firefly.

Gotcha.  Makes sense.

post #821 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by smugbug View Post

I thought Scarlet Johanssen nailed it.

 

As did I, and for me she was the biggest/most pleasant surprise of the film (Ruffalo/Hulk coming in a close second). I don't think anyone expected much of her after the lackluster performance in IM2, but give Whedon credit for his ability to develop strong female characters, and Scarlett for proving that she can actually act when properly motivated.

post #822 of 2694

Oh, I sort of forgot to mention: did it take the involvement of someone like Whedon to get people to realize that when you team up superheroes they MUST first throw down against each other?

post #823 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by cccc View Post

HAHA!

 

What?  Are you secretly aware of some movie experience they actually enjoyed more?

post #824 of 2694
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post

Oh, I sort of forgot to mention: did it take the involvement of someone like Whedon to get people to realize that when you team up supeheroes they MUST first throw down against each other?

 

I'd give the Marvel Studios people enough credit to realize that. But I think Whedon had a uniquely keen sense of how best to do it. What the nature of their interpersonal frictions should be. Some of the pairings and fights are obvious, some of them less so. For example, pairing Stark and Banner FEELS obvious now. But it wasn't.

post #825 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by theslik1 View Post

 

As did I, and for me she was the biggest/most pleasant surprise of the film (Ruffalo/Hulk coming in a close second). I don't think anyone expected much of her after the lackluster performance in IM2, but give Whedon credit for his ability to develop strong female characters, and Scarlett for proving that she can actually act when properly motivated.

 Why I was so perplexed by IM2, I know the gal can act.  I've seen it.  But totally what you say, Whedon knows the strong female character through and through.  

post #826 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post

It's a good line, mcnooj.  Considering the trailer only shows Stark's billionaire, genius, philanthropist line, I was happy there was a rejoinder.

 

To wit on my point...Cap's value in the team is about everything he was/is before "what came out of the bottle".  Just as wimpy Steve Rogers in the alley getting decked in his own movie...he doesn't give up.

 

What's great about that moment is that if one had seen Captain America (the movie) before seeing The Avengers, you'd know that Stark's dig at Cap was total BS.

 

If one had skipped out on that movie, I'm sure it'd come through in the way that Evans plays the character... but still.

post #827 of 2694

I thought the "heroes fighting each other" was pretty much a Marvel comic staple? Regardless, it worked liked gangbusters onscreen.

post #828 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I thought the "heroes fighting each other" was pretty much a Marvel comic staple? Regardless, it worked liked gangbusters onscreen.

It IS an Avengers staple.  I recall Wonder Man fights with Thor a few times in the comic.  There's always some strife between Avengers - at least in the 70s era of books when the team grew to like 20-members.  You're "Earth's Mightiest", so it's always a fight to find out who exactly is "mightiest" within.  

post #829 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

 

What's great about that moment is that if one had seen Captain America (the movie) before seeing The Avengers, you'd know that Stark's dig at Cap was total BS.

 

If one had skipped out on that movie, I'm sure it'd come through in the way that Evans plays the character... but still.

I hadn't yet seen Cap's movie and I got it.

 

Neat seeing Stark, who's played as a child of the me-ist 80's, a super-powered Gordon Gekko, trying to take a stab at a living symbol of the Greatest Generation.

post #830 of 2694

I like how all of the PUT ON THE SUIT tension goes away after the explosion.

 

*Cap helps Tony up*

Cap: Put on the suit!!!!

Tony: yeah!

post #831 of 2694

Chris Spider, I would go with...Zooey Deschanel for Janet Van Dyne aka The Wasp!  The Wasp is a very...goofy, and happy character, and I think Zooey would be a better fit.  I do not think Marvel will wait til 2017 for Avengers 2.  2015 would be more likely!  Unless they do not want an...Avengers Trilogy with Robert Downey Jr as Iron Man.

post #832 of 2694

The one line I missed both times because of the laughter in the theater (and only knew about it because I heard other folks referring to it) was after Hulk used Loki much as a dog would use a chew toy, and then he walks off and says, "Puny god".

 

Other favorites that my friends said they missed hearing (both from Stark): "Make your move, Reindeer Games" to Loki and "Clinch up, Legolas" to Hawkeye.

post #833 of 2694

I was the only one that cackled in the theater at "Point Break". That was a lonely moment.

post #834 of 2694

I missed the "PUNY GOD" and Legolas lines. I was too busy giggling like a little girl at the former, and have no idea why I missed the latter.

post #835 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

I was the only one that cackled in the theater at "Point Break". That was a lonely moment.

Holy crap, I missed that one.  When was that? I also missed the "clinch up, Legolas" line.   And why a second viewing is mandatory. 

post #836 of 2694

Stark says it (Legolas line) as he's about to take Hawkeye up to the roof, so it sort of gets buried in with the mix of the repulsor sounds.  (insert nerd alert graphic here)

 

Forgot about the "Point Break" comment (Stark says it to Thor back in the Helicarrier after their battle)--my wife and I laughed at that too.  Also had to explain to her about Cap giving Fury the $10.

 

 

Jesus, how many tiny moments are we pulling out of this movie?  I swear, I may go see it a 3rd time in IMAX.

post #837 of 2694

On a second watch, I realized that Cap and Black Widow had their climactic moments swapped, and I wish they hadn't been. It should have been Cap on top of the Stark Tower shutting down the portal (note that he's still the guy who has to make the call to close it while Tony's inside) and Black Widow saving the hostages in the bank. In particular, the Widow probably would have used more stealth techniques to take out the Chitauri instead of going in with guns blazing, so it would have been more in line with her skill set, plus having to save a bunch of people would have gone a long way to striking the "red out of her ledger." Meanwhile, I thought Cap got shuffled off to the side a bit too much at the climax, and having him be the one with the staff would have made him feel a little more like he was in the thick of things. Plus, Cap's the ultra-agile one who could have flip-vaulted up onto the Chitauri hoverchariots; having Widow do it diminishes him a bit.
 

post #838 of 2694
Quote:
I've really enjoyed the subtext discussion in this thread, but I feel like there's a key tonal distinction between The Avengers and, say, Iron Man, that's being overlooked. Where Iron Man was just straight fascist porn put to the screen, I felt like there was a glib, knowing self-awareness throughout The Avengers that undercut everything the movie was on the surface saying. I don't want to dive too deep into authorial intent, but for all you can say about Whedon, I don't think most people would accuse him of being unintelligent or uncritical, and I think there's a strain of his generally bleak world-view that, deliberately or not, subverts the overtly totalitarian ideas.

Take the 'we're monitoring every cell phone on the planet' scene. What's the point of even including that? It's not like it's a moral plot point that's debated ala Dark Knight, but it's also not even a necessary narrative device; they literally could have just had the computer go BEEP BOOP LOKI FOUND IN GERMANY and no one would have cared. So why even bother including that as a throwaway, except to make it clear that these dudes are subverting your civil liberties and you don't give a gently caress? I feel like that's the movie's take on its own themes in a nut-shell: it will tell the audience to their faces "These dudes are subverting your civil liberties" using LITERALLY the exact same 'civil liberties subverting plot device' that the last ginormous superhero movie used as a major moral conundrum, because it KNOWS that the audience will just eat it right up anyway. The same goes for the Captain-cops/Loki-German-man parallel, or the utter lack of any moral care applied to the wholescale destruction of Manhattan. I mean, this is literally a movie where the heroes express valid moral concerns about their superiors, and their superior then tricks them using some cheap emotional propaganda, and when the heroes fall for it, it's presented like a moral win! Again, there was no reason to include that Fury scene; if this was Iron Man 1, it would have just ended at Fury's speech. But the movie deliberately went out of its way to show us that the speech was full of poo poo, a 'push' to get the heroes past their moral reservations and to be the good little soldiers they were supposed to be.

Iron Man strikes me as a movie that genuinely doesn't realize how totalitarian its ideology is, but I don't think the same is true of The Avengers. It strikes me as being much more like Funny Games, or, more appropriately, The Cabin In The Woods, in that it's a movie fundamentally based around a sort of an amused contempt for the audience that is going to eat this movie up. It goes out of its way, totally unnecessarily, to show that the heroes are trampling on civil liberties, because it knows the audience won't care at all, because in the end, all the care about is the rousing speech and the blood on the audience-surrogate's goddamn trading cards (of all things!). This is a movie about the ideology of superhero movies, and more specifically, about how easily audiences accept what they should by all accounts be questioning.

Basically, the Avengers is a huge joke on the pretension of the civil liberties debate in The Dark Knight, saying, dude, people are here to watch Batman punch the joker; this whole debate is just a way to try to feel good about it. The audience just wants to 'shut off their brains' and watch the feel-good-authoritarianism, and, well, if you just sort of take the crappiness of that at face value, it's kind of funny.


This is the kind of discussion that's happening on the somethingawful forums and I can't help but be annoyed, they seem to care less about if a film works on it's own merits and rather would dissect it with this weird growing interest in terrible film theory. All of it comes off as trying to hard. There are constant defenses of "every interpretation is valid and we shouldn't turn off our brains" but it all comes off so alienating and irritating. I guess I was wondering why chud avoids annoying interpretations such as these? Should I just do what normal people do and go on living my life instead having problems with go-nowhere discussions on the interent?
post #839 of 2694

Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

I was the only one that cackled in the theater at "Point Break". That was a lonely moment.

 

We are kindred spirits.

post #840 of 2694
Quote:
Shanty posted:

Yeah, the unambiguously positive portrayal of the Avengers' use of misinformation, big brother surveillance schemes and nuclear goddamn weapons, literal and figurative (Hulk), is so close to being straight up satire that I can't even call it.


All the Marvel Studios films can be read as satire, but I think they're just too drat inoffensive. Like say what you will about Michael Bay, but he does not shy away from the ugliness of The Transformers as a franchise.

It's like the emphasis on the McDonalds in Red Dawn. John Milius has a vision of what America means, and McDonalds isn't really a part of that. Yes, Red Dawn is obviously a 'conservative' film, but it's not advocating free markets and bailouts for corporations. McDonalds is weakness, says the film. Real Americans, understanding that freedom isn't free, will live in the woods and drink deer's blood.

Red Dawn fits right inbetween Battle: Los Angeles and 300 in the spectrum of self-aware, culturally conservative films that are nonetheless against the big systemic problems like imperialism.

B:LA is the most laudable, as a conservative anti-capitalist film that takes pains to justify its philisophical-ethical stance, where 300 goes in the exact opposite direction and satirizes how causes like anti-imperialism can be twisted by conservatives into an excuse for belligerent racism, homophobia and other ugly bullshit.

As gone over earlier, though, Iron Man and the other Marvel Studios films don't fit on this spectrum. As 'liberal' films, they're 300 toned down and glossed over with a superficial 'political correctness'. "We don't hate middle-eastern people. See, here's a token good one! He's wealthy, educated, and conveniently dead." Is that really better than 300's comically overt fascist revisionism?

Red drat might be against the failed communist projects of the late 20th century, but is that a revolutionary proletarian spirit detectable beneath it all? Maybe we can beat the communists at their own game...
post #841 of 2694

I think BW and Cap got it right.  He is the shield.  He protects.  He protected BW as HULK punched the mecha-snake (that looked just like the Dragon Titan in Castlevania: Lords of Shadow) and it flipped over.  BW shutting the portal is getting some red off of the ledger.  Besides, as pointed out, Cap gives the order.  Besides, his shield/getting blown onto the car was a great moment.

post #842 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martianman View Post

Other favorites that my friends said they missed hearing (both from Stark): "Make your move, Reindeer Games" to Loki and "Clinch up, Legolas" to Hawkeye.

 

Can I just say that I never imagined the day when Legolas would be so ubiquitously known that his name would be a punchline in a major summer blockbuster?

post #843 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dracula Bakula View Post

This is the kind of discussion that's happening on the somethingawful forums and I can't help but be annoyed, they seem to care less about if a film works on it's own merits and rather would dissect it with this weird growing interest in terrible film theory. All of it comes off as trying to hard. There are constant defenses of "every interpretation is valid and we shouldn't turn off our brains" but it all comes off so alienating and irritating. I guess I was wondering why chud avoids annoying interpretations such as these? Should I just do what normal people do and go on living my life instead having problems with go-nowhere discussions on the interent?

 

I dunno.  I think CHUD can harbor those kinds of opinions too.  I think it's welcome when it happens once in a while.  They can be fun.

post #844 of 2694

Remember this moment now, makes me kinda misty-eyed:

 

post #845 of 2694

Saw it yesterday afternoon, packed house, every moment played. SUCH a great, fun flick, an amazing A+ payoff to the run-up of B- to A- stand-alones. I'm one of those odd ducks who for some reason never got into superhero comics (although most of my friends did, and I hit them up for the arcane trivia and/or easter egg explanations), yet I'm a complete sucker for superhero movies. Maybe that's why I have zero superhero movie burnout? Cause if they can keep making them at this level of quality, or even just aspire to, I'll be in line every weekend.

 

Monster thread that's already dissected the best moments, payoffs, character beats, so I won't repeat them in another wave of earned gushing. One line I didn't see brought up, though, was for me the most haunting. Ruffalo's confession of a suicide attempt was simply breathtaking. "I couldn't see any end. I put a bullet in my mouth, and he spat it out." Pin drop, etc. That moment, and Ruffalo's delivery, said more about Banner's character and frustration than the past two Hulk movies managed (both of which I quite like), and was the true emotional set-up to the "I'm always angry" payoff.

 

Can't say enough about Johansson, and the favors Whedon did her. I think my favorite moment of hers was her first meeting with Banner, and when he fake-rages at her -- the abject, focused fear in her face as she stares down her gun barrel did as much to sell the threat of The Hulk as anything else before the actual hulk-out on the carrier. (As for the latter, Whedon was SO dead-on shooting Hulk like a horror movie monster, up until Thor tackles him. As great as the script was, Whedon makes so many great directorial decisions, you'd never guess this was his second feature, or that his first was a flop.)

 

Will definitely be seeing this again, to catch all the smaller things I missed, and I hate that it'll be a week before I can.

post #846 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trav McGee View Post

 

Can't say enough about Johansson, and the favors Whedon did her. I think my favorite moment of hers was her first meeting with Banner, and when he fake-rages at her -- the abject, focused fear in her face as she stares down her gun barrel did as much to sell the threat of The Hulk as anything else before the actual hulk-out on the carrier.

Truth.

post #847 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I thought the "heroes fighting each other" was pretty much a Marvel comic staple? Regardless, it worked liked gangbusters onscreen.

 

Yeah, it is, but it wouldn't have been the first time that a studio misread the strengths of the material they had to work with, so kudos to Feige or Whedon or whoever.

 

As you say, gangbusters: after the Cap-Iron Man-Thor fight, I had nearly forgotten that we still had The Hulk to come, upping the ante further when he takes on Thor.

 

Another bit I appreciated for its absence: given how much of the film derives from The Ultimates (a series I seem to hate less than many fans), I was getting very nervous when Banner was standing near the edge of the helicarrier... the scene from the comic of him being pushed out of the helicopter to transform or die had to have been tempting someone at Marvel to find a way to work it into a movie where it didn't belong.

post #848 of 2694
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

 

I dunno.  I think CHUD can harbor those kinds of opinions too.  I think it's welcome when it happens once in a while.  They can be fun.

 

Indeed welcome and indeed fun. Interesting things can sometimes enter the larger discourse this way. Besides, there is really no actual point in talking about any of this shit to begin with, other than it is fun. And sometimes it is fun to completely pull something apart and look at all the pieces.

 

Plus with AVENGERS, I think it is safe to say now that the overwhelming majority consensus is that the film is GOOD. This isn't JOHN CARTER. The film can withstand some academic skewering.

post #849 of 2694

Chewers weren't the only ones worried about SHIELD affinities http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/avengers-military/

post #850 of 2694
Quote:
Originally Posted by First Class 782 View Post

As an unabashed Cap fan, I think the film did the character a great service wrt the rest of the team.

 

Coulson, the audience identification character, positively swoons over him (to use the dialogue).

He gets a one on one with Fury...the other characters don't.

He gets a GREAT reveal in Germany vs. Loki.

When Stark and Banner discuss and use technology to find out what SHIELD is up to, Steve has already sleuthed the old-fashioned way and has the answer.

He gets his licks in during the verbal altercation with Iron Man (I know guys with none of that worth ten of you).

He deals with the "Everything special about you came out of a bottle."  Which is followed by:

Iron Man specifically calling him out as the leader after HULK appears.

He has the big hostage rescue scene, and he beats some ass quite well.

 

Yeah, he doesn't have the power of IM, Thor, or HULK, but he is still the heart of the team.  They didn't say it overtly, but no doubt his argument with Cap fed his decision to sacrifice himself to nuke the Chitauri (I guess nuclear deterrents do work sometimes).  I thought the film showed his role and ability very effectively.  With regards to his own action, he has his own sequel to showcase that.  How he relates to the team is what the Avengers showcased.  And that was about his leadership and commitment. 

 

I think you missed Thor pounding the shield and the forest going all Tunguska.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

I was the only one that cackled in the theater at "Point Break". That was a lonely moment.

 

I saw it with my two boys and a friend and his son.  He and I were the only two in a 60% filled theatre that laughed and we laughed pretty loud.  Loud enough that the kids all asked us what was funny on the way to the car.

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