Who should take over the Batman franchise? - Page 9

I love how people talk about the Nolan films as if they were made by Lars Von Trier or Roman Polanski or something (full disclosure: haven't seen Rises yet, doing that tomorrow). Nolan is not completely without a sense of fun or joy, people; there's loads of dry humor in his movies, even if the "blockbuster" one-liners fall a little flat now and then. His "realism" extends to the facts that he treats Gotham like a real city, the characters as if they were real people, Batman's tech like it could conceivably exist in the real world, and Joker never fell into a pit of acid/doesn't use a special gas to make people laugh themselves to death. You're just not going to see a man who can only survive in sub-zero temperatures, a man who turns into a bat-creature or a shape-shifting former actor in his films.

 

That being said, I think Edgar Wright (who's been suggested already) could kick major ass with a more heightened, animated series-esque take in live action. The character designs for the Arkham games could be a good starting point.

 

 

No wonder that universe can be so boring.

Look, I know that's just your personal preference. I'm able to accept that. But you can't slam Nolan just for having a different viewpoint on the character. And it occasionally feels like you've been doing that lately.

 

I should point out that I love me some heightened Batman too; even more than the Nolan films, Batman: The Animated Series, its associated shows, and Batman: The Brave and the Bold are easily my favorite versions of the character.

 

With the caveat they leave out the S&M stripper outfits spray-painted on to every single female character.

Catwoman's outfit is fine, methinks. It's pretty close to what she tends to wear in the comics these days.

 

It's a perfectly valid version of the character.

 

But I don't like it that much.

Being honest with each other is all I ask.

My attitude towards the Nolan films isn't that it''s bad, by any means, just that I've had enough of it and I'm ready for another approach. That's the reason I absolutely cringe at the idea of continuing this series with John Blake or a prequel or anything else set in the Nolanverse.

 

Batman is a character who has varied more than nearly anyone in how he's been depicted as a  character. The only way to truly capture that in a film, and it something I'd love to see, would be  with a Batman anthology film filled with four directors doing half-hour Batman films. That might be the only way we could get someone like Quentin Tarantino or Michael Mann or David Fincher to take a stab at the character. But that also doesn't build a franchise, and I can accept it won't happen.

 

But failing that, I just want something different. We've had three campy Batman films, two gothic, and three grounded and a bit dour. Let's try something else.

 

 

I think I'll stick with that universe.

If only Batman and Robin had Hans Zimmer and a director who really understood THE DEEP THEMES that one can explore involving billionaires who dress up as bats and battle killer clowns.

Maybe the next guy will be able to tackle the issues that matter while Batman and the rest of the super friends defend us from Doomsday.  With a soundtrack featuring Aerosmith, The Black Eyed Peas, and Ke$ha!

This sounds like a billion times better than the Dark Knight.

There's no reason you can't explore deep themes in a story about a billionaire ninja fighting a killer clown.  Or a space domino that turns astronauts into dayglo fetuses, or midgets trying to return a piece of magic jewelry, or a rewriting of history where Hitler is killed by the POWER OF CINEMA, or a wooden cowboy and plastic spaceman that come to life when no one's looking, or a guy playing the Grim Reaper in chess, or (insert plot description of any David Lynch movie here), or (insert "plot description" of any Jodorowsky movie here).

But I need to know what Batman means to GOTHAM!

I should probably mention that a year working at a comic store after The Dark Knight had just come out destroyed so much of me.

 

So much.

 

I don't envy you that.  And I don't begrudge anyone getting in their final "BATMAN IZ SEEERIOZ BIZNASS!!!" gags in this funereal hour.  The hardest thing about the end of Nolan's series is that many of us on the internet have this particular joke-writing muscle that we've been working out for the last decade which is about to become obsolete.  At least until Marvel stops dawdling and picks up my hard-R Cardiac spec script.  I took some liberties with the origin, and I don't want to give away anything, but 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

This ain't your daddy's Cardiac, folks.

 

 

 

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

It's EDGY!

My fanfic is ALL EDGES, lady.

 

But on topic, while I'd be totally fine with a JGL Batman Beyond/Nightwing movie, there's no way WB takes one of the biggest cash cows in history and takes it in such a less mainstream direction.  We're going to see a more sci-fi, Justice League friendly version in a couple years, and might as well accept it now, we'll be seeing the origin again.

I can at least go with the science-fiction Justice League version.

 

I just hope we can bring Ra's Al Ghul back so he can have a shirtless swordfight with him.

It's been just over 20 years since "Terminator 2: Judgment Day", and in all the time since, there's never been a truly breathtaking triumph of special effects shape-shifting character that comes close to T-000. I guess Sandman was the closest, but he mostly ended up being a blown opportunity. Mystique was a pretty excellent shapeshifter, albeit with limited screen time, despite appearing in every movie of a trilogy.

 

When I showed a friend the "Batman: The Animated Series" Clayface debut episode, he immediately saw the T-1000 connection (the animators were probably thinking of it too, since the movie had just come out around the time they put together this show). I'm still waiting for a live action Clayface that can be a T-1000 for this generation, although I'm not sure which director is enough of a wizard with special effects to shepherd that to the screen. Wachowskis? Blomkamp? I'm drawing a blank.

 

I would agree about Wright because his "Scott Pilgrim vs. the World" has some of my favourite special effects I've seen in years, but I don't know if he can handle the scale necessary to make a Batman movie feel right. All of his films feel kinda small to me, and that's not a criticism of the movies themselves.

 

I like them that way, but I feel a Batman movie shouldn't be quite as intimate. I'm not saying all comic book/superhero movies have to sprawl to be satisfying (I'm expecting great things from his "Ant-Man"), but as someone raised on "Batman: The Animated Series", I expect some grandeur in bat tales.

 

While still wearing the cowl.

God yes!

 

And it's played completely straight! Just two guys fighting each other while one keeps his pointy eared cowl on during the whole fight.

If Ra's returns, we get Talia too or no deal.

They wasted Ra's Al Ghul in the movies.

 

And Talia.

This will never happen, but I'd love to see an Elseworlds film with a Chinese Batman. WB could license the character out to foreign studios to do their own home grown Batmen movies, netting a big chunk of the profits. Batman as Macau casino billionaire, parents killed by the Triad. You could have a cool little crossover moment with Bruce Wayne appearing in a cameo, with the film set during the years he was wandering namelessly around Asia. Bale is already famous for Chinese film work (appearing as the western star of the highest budgeted Chinese film of all time), and would be a natural fit for a walk on role in that kind of a production.

Batman's specialized brand of theatricality and Kung fu intimidation seems like a natural fit for Chinese cinema. If different regions of the world were allowed to make their own Batman movies, fans would finally get to see on screen a multitude of interpretations for the character.

I'm picturing the end of Commando, only Schwarzeneggar is wearing a cowl that makes him look like a bobblehead, Alyssa Milano's dressed like Robin, and Vernon Wells is wearing a cape with a bigass collar (in addition to the saggy chainmail).

I just love the fact that we have so many cinematic portrayals of Batman already. Much more than any other comic book characters.

 

And you know this is just going to go in circles right? For the next decade we'll get a "not so real" Batman and then you'll all be bitching about how annoying those "fun Batman" fans are and he should go back to his darker roots. And then round and round we go. 

They did that on "Batman: The Animated Series". Batman looked a little ridiculous, but it was a damn fun fight and episode.

Oh it's totally ridiculous but at the same time totally sincere WHICH IS WHY IT'S SO GREAT!

I don't know, Bane was pretty Bennett-y already,

Bane was just Batman's version of Doomsday, which means he's mostly pretty horrible.

Wait.. are you saying the 90s were a terrible time for mainstream comics? I don't believe it.

Bane's like Spider-Man's Venom in that while his origins are gimmicky, if you give it some thought and effort, you can make a really interesting character out of him. Look at Gail Simone's version in Secret Six.

Simone tries but Bane's essential reason for existence(fucking Batman up) has been completed so long ago that even she can't quite figure out what to do with him. He's now into the whole "Warrior with some odd moral code" phase of his character. Which in the 90's would have probably meant he'd have a mini-series out right now.

 

So we've advanced somewhat.

Also because I'm bitter I'll add that I hate Venom with the passion of a million dying suns.

Batman contains multitudes, obviously, and I know there are plenty of fun stories to tell in the cinematic Batman universe. But I'd be tickled if there was some way to take the character into a meta direction. There needs to be a cinematic equivalent to Grant Morrison who takes into account how the onscreen character evolved from Adam West, to brooding Burton crusader, to neon Schumacher hero and eventually Nolan's tortured avatar of fear.

He's actually done really well in The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon. Mostly because they take the Ultimate comics approach of actually giving him a place in Peter's life as an older brother figure, instead of being some random asshole.

I don't loathe him in that series. but I'll never like Venom.

 

Just looking at him makes me break out in hives.

At least someone else here has seen the damn thing. I still say it's the best Spider-Man incarnation ever outside the comics. I like it a good deal more than the Raimi films, even.

 

Back on-topic: I'd kill to see a Tick/Brave and the Bold-esque comedy action Batman movie, but it would probably neverrrrrr happen.

I want something fun, B:TAS or TMP level. So either get Dini and Trim, or time to bring in Russell Mulcahy (loved The Shadow), JJ Abrams (Star Trek was entertaining), or make Batman the Nick Fury and have him cameo in other DC films leading up to Justice League.

 

I was actually just coming in here to suggest that the best case scenario is to give it to Justin Lin, from a script by Dan Harmon.  I think that would be legitimately awesome.

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

I think you meant to say Joseph Kahn.

You should have meant to say Joseph Kahn.

I want Elliot Goldenthal back for the score. Batman has been lucky with some awesome themes written for him over the years, but I think Goldenthal's is probably the best fit for the character. Adventurous without being overtly heroic. It's creepy, like Batman should be.


Check this out, I think it makes a great case:

As I've said before, I think people like to just throw Goldenthal under the bus with Schumacher when they talk about that dude's Batman films. This is overlooking the fact that he wrote some damn catchy music. It may not be the equal of Elfman's iconic score, but I still think Goldenthal's Batman theme is super fun and memorable.

After the cinematic migraine that was Detention, ugh, no thanks.

Really cool you agree on that point. Most people I've spoken to in real life just dismiss the Schumacher films out of hand, including the score.

 

Anyway, I'm reading Batman: Year One this afternoon, and I wish Nolan had gone with a short haired Selina Kyle like in Miller's version. Hathaway looks so appealing right now with her Les Mis hair that it's a shame Nolan cast her only to give her long hair in Dark Knight Rises. Seems like a missed opportunity. I'd also like to see her background as a dominatrix restored for any future incarnation. It seemed like a real misreading of her character to just have her as a work-a-day prostitute. Catwoman is supposed to be about female empowerment.

Edited by Dr Harford - 8/4/12 at 10:11am

 

I'm blaming that on Miller's weird issues regarding women. The majority of his female characters seem to do time as prostitutes at some point.

In Miller's Year One at least, she was actually a professional dominatrix, not a prostitute.