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Obama Declares Support for Gay Marriage - Page 2

post #51 of 307
5/9/12 at 5:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rain Dog View Post

Christ on a bicycle people,

 

mormonsonbikes.jpg

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post #52 of 307
5/9/12 at 6:08pm

I think most here are pretty damned psyched by Obama's comments (Daily Show and Colbert should be good tonight) but I don't think it is a bad thing to remain somewhat skeptical regarding US politics.

 

we can be excited about good news but don't forget, there's a lot of shady political shit happening at the state levelsl thanks to groups like ALEC.

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post #53 of 307
5/9/12 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

I think most here are pretty damned psyched by Obama's comments (Daily Show and Colbert should be good tonight) but I don't think it is a bad thing to remain somewhat skeptical regarding US politics.

 

we can be excited about good news but don't forget, there's a lot of shady political shit happening at the state levelsl thanks to groups like ALEC.

 

Absolutely, but if we can't at least enjoy the rare victories that could help build the open, free, progressive world so many crave, then how fucking jaded and joyless has the left become???

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post #54 of 307
5/9/12 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

I think most here are pretty damned psyched by Obama's comments (Daily Show and Colbert should be good tonight) but I don't think it is a bad thing to remain somewhat skeptical regarding US politics.

 

we can be excited about good news but don't forget, there's a lot of shady political shit happening at the state levelsl thanks to groups like ALEC.

 

With this recent affirmation of basic rights for gay people & with ALEC in play, it's kinda like the US is saying "We may be inching toward Fascism but, hey, we're not Nazis".

 

Now THAT'S "cynical".

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post #55 of 307
5/9/12 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

 

it should be noted that the majority of these ship jumpers probably didn't vote for Obama the first time and won't vote for him this fall, so....


I'd bet that a big chunk of the evangelical African American bloc voted for him and Prop 8 in 2008 (or supported measures like Prop 8). He'll lose them over this.

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post #56 of 307
5/9/12 at 6:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post


I'd bet that a big chunk of the evangelical African American bloc voted for him and Prop 8 in 2008 (or supported measures like Prop 8). He'll lose them over this.

 

Seriously, and in all honesty - fuck them.

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post #57 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:00pm

Well, yeah. My point is that the idea that Obama isn't going to actually lose votes over this is silly. There are a couple of voting blocs that traditionally vote Democrat, but also have strong religious beliefs who will potentially be swayed to not voting for (and possibly voting against) Obama on the basis of this issue.

 

The only cynical interpretation of this that I can believe is that Obama is so certain that Romney doesn't stand a chance against him, that he feels like he can finally just let loose and say this now.

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post #58 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:11pm
Thread Starter 

Hey, if you're gonna lose, lose being right.

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post #59 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:11pm


Ooo, ooo, and while we're at it - THE AVENGERS ISN'T QUITE AS GOOD AS EVERYONE SAYS IT IS!!!!!


Sorry, couldn't resist myself. Don't get up, I'll let myself out...

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post #60 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:17pm

I think it was smart politically to be honest.   The headwinds are definitely in Obama's favor on this but more than that, it sets up a stark contrast between Obama and Romney not unlike the one between Bush and Kerry.   Remember that Bush ran on being resolute and painted Kerry as weak willed?   Obama can use the same playbook.     In other, more base words, Obama can run as the guy who has balls.

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post #61 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Hey, if you're gonna lose, lose being right.

 

"...and with that, the stranger got on his horse and left our small dusty cowtown changed forever".

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post #62 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:28pm

I think that a lot of people who act like they oppose gay marriage will secretly support the President's position on this because, really, and don't tell anyone I told you this, but I think most people are at least a little bit gay.  I mean, really, have you guys ever noticed that?

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post #63 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:31pm
How much credit does Biden deserve for this? I know some people think his comments a few days ago were a trial balloon; I think Joe might have been the one to finally kick the President off the fence he's been sitting on. As soon as Biden spoke up, the White House's PR people tried to walk the comments back and water them down. It was obvious the President had been made to look less committed to equality than his subordinate.

As weird and goofy as this Vice President can seem sometimes, the magnificent son of a bitch knows campaign politics. Just ask Rudy Giuliani.


Quote:
Originally Posted by WendellEverett View Post

I think that a lot of people who act like they oppose gay marriage will secretly support the President's position on this because, really, and don't tell anyone I told you this, but I think most people are at least a little bit gay. I mean, really, have you guys ever noticed that?


Ron White certainly thought so.
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post #64 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:35pm


Here's hoping those polls saying the majority of Americans were OK with Gay Marriage were accurate.  And that a lot of those people don't waffle under pressure from their local church groups.

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post #65 of 307
5/9/12 at 7:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamotv View Post

I think it was smart politically to be honest.   The headwinds are definitely in Obama's favor on this but more than that, it sets up a stark contrast between Obama and Romney not unlike the one between Bush and Kerry.   Remember that Bush ran on being resolute and painted Kerry as weak willed?   Obama can use the same playbook.     In other, more base words, Obama can run as the guy who has balls.

 

The thing that really separates Obama from Carter is the huge brass balls.  This is going to super-charge contributions and public support all fucking summer, and it will re-capture a lot of the international Joe Cool hype that got Obama elected.  Hell, I might even start wearing my old Obama T-shirt out in public again.

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post #66 of 307
5/9/12 at 8:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

The negative reaction people on the right have to virtually everything this president does is telling.  The right wing leadership treats the rank and file Republicans like babies, serving them up a false, simplified picture of the world, with Obama as the monster under their bed.

 

Which is pretty much why he should've jumped on board years ago. Still, better late than never.

 

Also, lol about losing black voters. Who else are they going to support? They have even less alternatives to turn to than the hardline progressives disappointed with what Obama's been doing in office.

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post #67 of 307
5/9/12 at 8:42pm

They're just not going to vote, which hurts Obama plenty on its own.

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post #68 of 307
5/9/12 at 8:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

They're just not going to vote, which hurts Obama plenty on its own.

 

It wouldn't be couragous if it wasn't incredibly risky.

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post #69 of 307
5/9/12 at 9:15pm

   I'm tempted to listen to right wing talk radio just to hear them flip out. I won't actually do it, but I'm tempted.  I don't think the government has any business saying who can get married and who can't. I think this is good news. Finally, more weddings, more open bars!

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post #70 of 307
5/9/12 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

   I'm tempted to listen to right wing talk radio just to hear them flip out. I won't actually do it, but I'm tempted.  I don't think the government has any business saying who can get married and who can't. I think this is good news. Finally, more weddings, more open bars!

 

Just listen to this on a loop.  You'll get the general idea.

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post #71 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

They're just not going to vote, which hurts Obama plenty on its own.

 

And be on the wrong side of history?!? How are they going to tell their grandkids the first black prez was a one-termer?

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post #72 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMR View Post

 

And be on the wrong side of history?!? How are they going to tell their grandkids the first black prez was a one-termer?

 

...because he sided with Satan and the godless inner city elites?

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post #73 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:20pm

For whatever reason Obama did it, I'm glad he did. It certainly had an effect on me, and it made my day a little brighter.

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post #74 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:38pm

I hate to be the cynical guy, but this isn't going to change the minds of anyone regarding who they're going to vote for in November. There's what, six Log Cabin gay Republicans left? They're already got enough issues to keep them on the Republican side of things, they're not going to have an epiphany and change parties now that Obama has 'evolved' at just the right time to spark his fund drives. Isn't this like Romney or some other  Republican coming out and saying that rich people are cool? He is preaching to the choir. As for losing the African American churchgoer's vote, let's get real. According to polls the African American constituency voted in a monolithic high percentage for Obama. Who else are they goiing to vote for? There's no way they'll stay home and be labelled responsible for getting Romney elected. As for energizing the \Right, aren't they already shivering like rabid weasels stuffed into a sack? This is not going to do more than hitting the sack with a stick. They're already nuts, this isn't going to push them over the edge.

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post #75 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

 

LOL good point.

 

Romney needs to check with his 'advisor'.....

 

51T0DnfCflL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

For a moment, I actually thought Romney would look at the surveys that show America on a whole is changing its views toward marriage and jump on the bandwagon. I can't wait for the quotes years from now where he tries to claim he was always for gay marriage.  

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post #76 of 307
5/9/12 at 10:49pm

  It does show a difference between  Romney and Obama. On this issue Obama has taken a stance. Then there is Romney, who once said he is to the left of Ted Kennedy on gay issues, now is working with "pray away the gay groups."

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post #77 of 307
5/9/12 at 11:43pm
Quote:
but it’s also the Golden Rule, you know, treat others the way you would want to be treated. And I think that’s what we try to impart to our kids and that’s what motivates me as president and I figure the most consistent I can be in being true to those precepts, the better I’ll be as a as a dad and a husband and hopefully the better I’ll be as president.”

 

what a magnificent man.

 

I have nothing but love for this whole thing, but aside from the gay-marriage aspect, it's that statement and idea contained, be a better person, treat people right, that hit me the most.

 

Marvellous.

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post #78 of 307
5/10/12 at 4:04am

The New Republic has a wealth of fascinating and sobering articles up regarding this. A choice selection:

 

 

Quote:
But here’s the main thing I’m wondering about the White House (and Chicago) calculations: to what degree was the decision to proceed influenced by knowing what tricky territory this is for Mitt Romney, too? Remember: gay rights was, arguably, Romney’s original flip-flop. Running for Senate in 1994, he promised to be more effective in supporting “full equality” for gays than Ted Kennedy would be—his pitch to gay voters was that he would be able to persuade more conservative Republicans to support gay rights in a way that a Democrat like Kennedy could not. At one point in 1994, he even said he had not ruled out supporting gay marriage at some point in the future.
 
But then came the ruling from Massachusetts’ high court in late 2003 supporting gay marriage—and Romney seized on it as the opportunity for his first giant lurch toward the right. From Michael Kranish and Scott Helman’s indispensable biography, The Real Romney:
 
Romney made a fateful decision: he would become a leading crusader against gay marriage. He railed against “activist judges,” whom he accused of remaking American society by fiat, asserting that the Massachusetts justices had issued their landmark ruling to promote their liberal values and those of their “like-minded friends in the communities they socialize in.”...He pressed Congress to pass a federal gay marriage ban and lobbied Massachusetts lawmakers hard on a state ban, once making a show of distributing copies of the state constitution to legislators after the legislature resisted holding a vote on the measure. He warned at a nationally broadcast anti-gay-marriage rally at a Boston church about the threat from the “religion of secularism.”
 
And he went around the country ridiculing the state he’d lived in for more than 30 years, reporting with an air of disgust what was transpiring back home. “Some are actually having children born to them,” Romney said of gay couples before a nationally televised address to South Carolina Republicans in February 2005. On another occasion, he quipped that Massachusetts had become “San Francisco East.” Gay marriage, he suggested, was a stain on his corner of the nation that would spread if it wasn’t stopped. But Romney didn’t stop there. He sought to amend Massachusetts’ anti-discrimination laws so a Catholic adoption agency could deny placements to gay couples. He backed away from his earlier advocacy of gays serving “openly and honestly” in the armed forces. And, after a flap over its mission, he eliminated the Governor’s Commission on Gay and Lesbian Youth, a panel that funded programs for gay teens and their schools. William Weld [a Republican] had started the groundbreaking commission a decade earlier in response to troubling research into teen suicides, something Romney had said in 1994 was a concern he shared. “He dealt a death-blow to a one of a kind program in the nation,” said David LaFontaine, who had started the commission under Weld and chaired it until 2000.
 
More recently, of course, there was Romney’s $10,000 contribution to the National Organization for Marriage in 2008, around the time that members of his church were making huge and pivotal donations to the Prop 8 effort in California. All in all, I don’t think this is something Mitt Romney wants to be talking about over the next few months, along with the requisite clips of his gay-friendly self in 1994. It’s truly remarkable to consider: just eight years ago, the Massachusetts court decision was credited with seriously undermining John Kerry’s chances. Now, another square Massachusetts politician finds himself probably wishing the issue had not come up—but from the other side. Call it the curse of San Francisco East.
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post #79 of 307
5/10/12 at 4:41am

I truly believe that if 90s Romney met and shook hands with Now-Romney, they wouldn't cause a contradiction in the space-time continuum.

 

Anyway, Good on Obama.
 

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post #80 of 307
5/10/12 at 5:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post

I hate to be the cynical guy, but this isn't going to change the minds of anyone regarding who they're going to vote for in November. There's what, six Log Cabin gay Republicans left? They're already got enough issues to keep them on the Republican side of things, they're not going to have an epiphany and change parties now that Obama has 'evolved' at just the right time to spark his fund drives. Isn't this like Romney or some other  Republican coming out and saying that rich people are cool? He is preaching to the choir. As for losing the African American churchgoer's vote, let's get real. According to polls the African American constituency voted in a monolithic high percentage for Obama. Who else are they goiing to vote for? There's no way they'll stay home and be labelled responsible for getting Romney elected. As for energizing the \Right, aren't they already shivering like rabid weasels stuffed into a sack? This is not going to do more than hitting the sack with a stick. They're already nuts, this isn't going to push them over the edge.

 

Actually yes, they will stay home, and nobody's going to "blame them for Romney getting elected" anymore than they blamed them for any other Republican president getting elected in the last half-century.  Many of them likely won't care if Romney DOES get elected, because in the minds of a significant number of them, Obama has proven no different as president than his white predecessors as far as the black population is concerned.  Many are not (to their minds) in any better place than they were 3 years ago, so what difference does it make (to them)?  Hope ran out and change didn't happen (on a level visible to them).

 

Is it remarkably short-sighted and selfishly entitled?  You betcha.  But it's out there.  I hear it practically every day.  I would hasten to add it's not universal, but between that sense of malaise from some segments and now the support of gay marriage making the evangelical christian segments waffle, I could very easily see a large chunk of black voters that turned out last time not turning out this time.  I hope it doesn't happen that way, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.

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post #81 of 307
5/10/12 at 6:27am
Thread Starter 

I don't think anyone is expecting Obama's statement to instantly create harmony and understanding across all genders and orientations.  It's not going to undo every single anti-same-sex marriage law in every state overnight.  But the importance of a sitting president unequivocally stating he believes gay couples should be able to get married shouldn't be understated.  And honestly, it feels like a statement of purpose for a second Obama term.

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post #82 of 307
5/10/12 at 9:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

The New Republic has a wealth of fascinating and sobering articles up regarding this. A choice selection:

 

 

 


...so it would seem the Romney's position on marriage equality has devolved. 

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post #83 of 307
5/10/12 at 9:36am

yup....it's gay-mageddon

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post #84 of 307
5/10/12 at 9:47am

Latest Gallup poll sez 50% of Americans favor it, 48% oppose. Does that mean 2% don't give a fuck either way?

 

I sometimes wonder how many old-school gay people are like John Waters and hate the idea of gay marriage. Waters' position, typically hilariously articulated, is basically "Yeah, I guess gay people should be able to get married if they really want to...and they should be able to openly serve in the military if they want to...but I remember when two perks of being a fag were that you didn't have to go into the Army and you didn't have to get married. Now these gay kids come along and they want to do these things? Well...okay...I guess..."

 

He said it better than I'm paraphrasing, in This Filthy World.

 

Anyway, the important thing is, good on Obama.

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post #85 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:20am

Reading this made me sick to my stomach....but also happy at the thought of Romney trying to explain this away. 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html

 

What a stark contrast between the two. Seriously, fuck Romeny. And can we finally put an end to Presidents who are rich entitled babies who only got where they are because because of their daddies? 

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post #86 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Reading this made me sick to my stomach....but also happy at the thought of Romney trying to explain this away. 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html

 

What a stark contrast between the two. Seriously, fuck Romeny. And can we finally put an end to Presidents who are rich entitled babies who only got where they are because because of their daddies? 

 

Wow.  He's like the villain in a hundred different books/movies about growing up. 

 

Quote:

 

Friedemann, guilt ridden, made a point of not talking about it with his friend and waited to see what form of discipline would befall Romney at the famously strict institution. Nothing happened.

 

This is a theme in Romney's life, evidently.

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post #87 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:31am

johnnyLawrence.jpg

Romney & Obama, basically.

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post #88 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Reading this made me sick to my stomach....but also happy at the thought of Romney trying to explain this away. 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html

 

What a stark contrast between the two. Seriously, fuck Romeny. And can we finally put an end to Presidents who are rich entitled babies who only got where they are because because of their daddies? 

 

not that I really needed more proof but....Romney = stereotypical frat boy douchebag mentality

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post #89 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:33am

Again, I hate to be happy about such a horrible story, but there's no WAY it's a coincidence that that story is coming out NOW. Are the Democrats FINALLY playing some sort of mischievous long game? Less Ned Stark, more Tyrion Lannister please. 

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post #90 of 307
5/10/12 at 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Again, I hate to be happy about such a horrible story, but there's no WAY it's a coincidence that that story is coming out NOW. Are the Democrats FINALLY playing some sort of mischievous long game? Less Ned Stark, more Tyrion Lannister please. 

 

WaPo is anything but in the bag for the Democrats.  I think because suddenly the nomination is real, people came out of the woodwork to blow the whistle on Romney's disturbing behavior.  The people quoted in this story were probably in denial about the possibility that this monster could actually be president and were shocked into action.  That's my theory anyway.

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post #91 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:00am
To be fair, a lot of that shit with him pulling pranks was nearly 50 years ago, people change and I rather focus on Romney's character today rather than what he used to be. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-apologizes-for-high-school-pranks-that-might-have-gone-too-far/2012/05/10/gIQAC3JhFU_story.html
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post #92 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syd View Post

Reading this made me sick to my stomach....but also happy at the thought of Romney trying to explain this away. 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romneys-prep-school-classmates-recall-pranks-but-also-troubling-incidents/2012/05/10/gIQA3WOKFU_story.html

 

What a stark contrast between the two. Seriously, fuck Romeny. And can we finally put an end to Presidents who are rich entitled babies who only got where they are because because of their daddies? 

Fuckin bully. I can't wait to vote for Obama!

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post #93 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:17am
Thread Starter 

Meanwhile...

 

Originally spewed forth by Rick Santorum:
Yesterday was clearly a tragic day for America and a tragic day for all those who believe in traditional, conservative values.

 

Fuck you, you miserable human being.

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post #94 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

To be fair, a lot of that shit with him pulling pranks was nearly 50 years ago, people change and I rather focus on Romney's character today rather than what he used to be. http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mitt-romney-apologizes-for-high-school-pranks-that-might-have-gone-too-far/2012/05/10/gIQAC3JhFU_story.html


While it's true that people can change over time, a basis of a person's present 'character' can be often be traced back to how they acted in their youth.

 

It's not like Romney overcame some great tragedy to become the person he is now...he didn't overcome drug addiction, raise himself up out of poverty or have to walk 10 miles to school everyday in order to get to where he is now. He's led a relatively comfortable life compared to other less fortunate people. 

 

Admittedly, many do stupid shit when we were young. Hell, I got busted skateboarding in a neighbors drained swimming pool and chased semi-regularly by police/security from another favorite drainage ditch,  but I never pulled 'pranks' on other people while growing up. Growing up, seeing the people pulling 'pranks' on other people (ala Romney), it just showed me that they were assholes. Maybe some of these assholes grew up to be fine upstanding moral individuals but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are just as much assholes now as back then.    

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post #95 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:31am

Come on, Romney sounds like a little asshole high schooler, not an evil super villain. There's plenty of reasons to dislike Romney but this is a bit much. I take him at his word when he says he changed a great deal when he met his wife and sincerely apologizes to anyone he hurt back in the day/ Romney is a lot of things, but I honestly don't think cruel is one of them. 

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post #96 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:32am

Basically my point is, if being an asshole stays with you the rest of your life regardless of your future actions or repentance, than I am well and truly fucked. 

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post #97 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Meanwhile...

 

 

Fuck you, you miserable human being.

I agree with Poxy!

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post #98 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:46am

Am I alone in seeing the comparison between the lack of 'marriage equality' and the anti-miscegenation laws that existed up until fairly recently (1967)

 

Almost all states had laws on their books that prevented inter-racial marriage. It took a Supreme Court decision to override these blatantly racist laws.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loving_v._Virginia

Quote:
"Marriage is one of the 'basic civil rights of man,' fundamental to our very existence and survival.... To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law. The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not to marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State."

replace the terms "racial" with "gender"

 

 

jumping off point- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-miscegenation_laws_in_the_United_States#Anti-miscegenation_laws_enacted_in_the_Thirteen_Colonies_and_the_United_States

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post #99 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

Come on, Romney sounds like a little asshole high schooler, not an evil super villain. There's plenty of reasons to dislike Romney but this is a bit much. I take him at his word when he says he changed a great deal when he met his wife and sincerely apologizes to anyone he hurt back in the day/ Romney is a lot of things, but I honestly don't think cruel is one of them. 

 

Seamus would like to have a word with you.   Also there's no way this came as a surprise to Obama's Opposition research team.   I bet they knew about this months ago and orchestrated for the story to leak at the same time Obama made his statements about gay marriage.   I have to say I'm liking the tougher, offense playing Obama as opposed to what he was doing 4 years ago.   I don't know how it plays in the cheap seats but from this partial observer, Obama is destroying Romney left and right.  

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post #100 of 307
5/10/12 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post


While it's true that people can change over time, a basis of a person's present 'character' can be often be traced back to how they acted in their youth.

It's not like Romney overcame some great tragedy to become the person he is now...he didn't overcome drug addiction, raise himself up out of poverty or have to walk 10 miles to school everyday in order to get to where he is now. He's led a relatively comfortable life compared to other less fortunate people. 

Admittedly, many do stupid shit when we were young. Hell, I got busted skateboarding in a neighbors drained swimming pool and chased semi-regularly by police/security from another favorite drainage ditch,  but I never pulled 'pranks' on other people while growing up. Growing up, seeing the people pulling 'pranks' on other people (ala Romney), it just showed me that they were assholes. Maybe some of these assholes grew up to be fine upstanding moral individuals but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that they are just as much assholes now as back then.    

It's easier for me to understand Romney's point because I used to be a real dick in my youth pulling pranks and making fun of others to the point they cried. But I grew out of that through those high school years and started to become more thoughtful of others. I remember during my junior year I apologized to someone I used to bully and we became good friends after we put it all behind. Of course it wasn't a marriage that changed me, honestly I'm sure what did. Since I can't pinpoint it, I'll just settle with "watching Captain Picard's moral speeches on afternoon TV changed me". And I still changed a lot after high school too. Ever since I realized I wanted to get into teaching and helping young people find their place in the world, I had a new found respect for educators. Getting into education was the last thing my 14 year old self would have ever considered as a possible career.
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