Religion and Fictional Characters

The most obvious -- and conflicted -- answer is Indiana Jones.  In Raiders, he's clearly an agnostic, if not an atheist.  From the way he says, "Power of God or something," and his dismissal of Marcus' fears, he clearly doesn't think the Ark is really some divine relic, which would seem to imply he doesn't believe in God, or if he does, he's not devoutly faithful.  Which you think would be rectified by what happens at the end of that film, but he seems just as skeptical in Last Crusade -- witness his reaction to having to take the leap of faith in the last test.  Temple of Doom's place as a prequel further clouds things, because you'd think having first-hand experience with the power of various Hindu deities would reinforce his belief in some sort of higher power.

It's been said many times before, but the reason THE EXORCIST works so well is that no one in the film, except for Father Merrin, seems particularly religious.  

The contrast between Daniel Larusso and Mr. Miyagi in The Karate Kid and The Karate Kid Part II is played well in the moments when Daniel stumbles upon Miyagi meditating/praying.  It does it's job of making Miyagi 'mysterious' and wise by showing him do something completely foreign to Daniel's world.  There are, of course, many similar moments in other films but Miyagi came to mind first.

Another good one is the God conversation from Groundhog Day that Bill Murray's character has with Andie McDowell.  "I'm a god."  "You're God?"  "I'm A god.  I'm not THE God, I don't think."  He's obviously trying to figure out what's happening, but is at least partially framing it in the question of why and who, if anyone, may be causing it.

I think why the thread hasn't gotten many responses is that this is a bit of a difficult topic.  So often religion or religious characteristics are greatly emphasized in films rather than being subtle.  A good example is the Neo/Christ comparison from The Matrix.  Everyone notices it because it's meant to be noticed.  In other films, like Dogma, a religious message meant to be conveyed is offered directly from dialogue between characters like Rufus, Metatron, and Serendipity. Cut out their mini monologues and you have Kevin Smith's theology right there, coming right from the mouths of the three good guys in the film who know God personally.

To find a subtle detail about religion in a film is significantly harder because religion often thrust to the forefront.  It may be that it's avoided because little bits in the films like a character praying can immediately grab peoples attention, so unless it's "explained," it may become an unintentional point-of-focus.  It works in The Karate Kid because generally the audience reacts in the same way that Daniel does.  It works in Groundhog Day because it's funny and the audience is asking the same questions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Dickson 

The most obvious -- and conflicted -- answer is Indiana Jones.  In Raiders, he's clearly an agnostic, if not an atheist.  From the way he says, "Power of God or something," and his dismissal of Marcus' fears, he clearly doesn't think the Ark is really some divine relic, which would seem to imply he doesn't believe in God, or if he does, he's not devoutly faithful.  Which you think would be rectified by what happens at the end of that film, but he seems just as skeptical in Last Crusade -- witness his reaction to having to take the leap of faith in the last test.  Temple of Doom's place as a prequel further clouds things, because you'd think having first-hand experience with the power of various Hindu deities would reinforce his belief in some sort of higher power.

Yeah, but I think that that was always part of the Indy 'formula' - he always goes into an adventure a skeptic/all about the archaeological value, and always comes out a believer. It kind of repeats itself the same way the Bond tropes repeat over and over (And don't forget, Spielberg/Lucas envisioned Indy as their own version of Bond).
 

Close Encounters features a scene where an ecumenical Priest is giving a religious service to the "astronauts" before they board the ET's Mothership. I think there was a cross as well as a Star of David on the wall behind him. For some reason I always loved that bit. It's the only overtly "normal" religious part of Close Encounters. It is the only thing that provides a hint that these Government approved astronauts are human (they act like freaking robots throughout the film) and it re-enforces (beyond what even the FX provide) that these people are going on a journey into the unknown and may not come back.

The film as a whole portrays belief in extraterrestrials itself as a religion, with Roy Neary having his own "Road to Damascus" moment, then being persecuted before attaining his own secular "Rapture".

Has anyone mentioned how Thor is a kind of American Nascar version of Christianity? I mean, Thor is the Good Son who comes to Earth, lives a mortal life, sacrifices himself and then comes back from the dead.

Only unlike Christ with his "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" crap, Thor beats the shit out of the Devil with a big freaking hammer!

Also Thor gets shitfaced in a bar and then comes onto Natalie Portman, so you know, no Homo.

I'll just let this particularly monstrous cinematic character speak for herself....

I just want you to know that it's okay... being scared. And, well, if you need a friend, someone to talk too...

I have a friend. God, up above. I talk to him everyday. Don't you condescend me.

I'm sorry?

Not ever. You don't mock me.

That's not what I was doing.

I'll tell you what. The day I need a friend like you, I'll just have myself a little squat and shit one out.

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Hey, crazy lady, I believe in God, too. I just don't think he's the bloodthirsty asshole you make him out to be.

Well, you take that up with the Devil when you run into him. You just chat it over at your leisure.

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We have Judas in our midst!

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If you hit me again, if you dare, you'll be on your knees to me before this is through.

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Easily the scariest thing in a pretty scary movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Has anyone mentioned how Thor is a kind of American Nascar version of Christianity? I mean, Thor is the Good Son who comes to Earth, lives a mortal life, sacrifices himself and then comes back from the dead.

 

Only unlike Christ with his "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" shit, Thor beats the shit out of the Devil with a big freaking hammer!

 

Also Thor gets shitfaced in a bar and then comes onto Natalie Portman, so you know, no Homo.

The amount of connections and crossovers between world religions as far as symbolism, messiahs, thematics and general messages make people wanting to insist their truth is THE truth beyond hilarious.

We've been coming up with this shit since a monkey hoisted a bone in the air and brought it down on his mates skull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

I'll just let this particularly monstrous cinematic character speak for herself....

 

 

 

 

I just want you to know that it's okay... being scared. And, well, if you need a friend, someone to talk too...

I have a friend. God, up above. I talk to him everyday. Don't you condescend me.

I'm sorry?

Not ever. You don't mock me.

That's not what I was doing.

I'll tell you what. The day I need a friend like you, I'll just have myself a little squat and shit one out.

----------------------

 

Hey, crazy lady, I believe in God, too. I just don't think he's the bloodthirsty asshole you make him out to be.

Well, you take that up with the Devil when you run into him. You just chat it over at your leisure.

--------------------------

 

We have Judas in our midst!

------------------------

 

If you hit me again, if you dare, you'll be on your knees to me before this is through.

 

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Easily the scariest thing in a pretty scary movie.

It is the scariest thing in a movingly scary movie. I think it is more moving because this is the Apocalypse, the end is nigh, and a zealot seized this moment to go Old Testament. It says something about the human being that in our darkest times we would or could resort to blood sacrifice again, instead of going New Testament in the face of the end.

The Departed is full of Catholic allusions.

Not subtle at all, Cape of fear and There will be blood.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

Close Encounters features a scene where an ecumenical Priest is giving a religious service to the "astronauts" before they board the ET's Mothership. I think there was a cross as well as a Star of David on the wall behind him. For some reason I always loved that bit. It's the only overtly "normal" religious part of Close Encounters. It is the only thing that provides a hint that these Government approved astronauts are human (they act like freaking robots throughout the film) and it re-enforces (beyond what even the FX provide) that these people are going on a journey into the unknown and may not come back.

 

The film as a whole portrays belief in extraterrestrials itself as a religion, with Roy Neary having his own "Road to Damascus" moment, then being persecuted before attaining his own secular "Rapture".

Considering this is pre-Schindler's Spielberg I wonder if that wasn't meant as a sign that the astronauts were being "prepared" in the wrong manner - coming along with the wrong mindset. These are the "Earth Approved" elite astronauts (in the Government/Establishment sense), not the rag-tag New Agey ET choices and they were bypassed as a result. They weren't the "chosen ones". So I think your last sentence is likely on the money for what the movie's ambitions are (or ended up being).

I find it's best to view Raiders as a standalone film, and the rest as "extended universe" stuff with varying degrees of entertainment value.

Perhaps an obvious choice, but I just finished reading No Country for Old Men and I found myself immensely moved by Sheriff Bell's quiet struggle with his own faith and God. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rain Dog 

I'll just let this particularly monstrous cinematic character speak for herself....

 

Easily the scariest thing in a pretty scary movie.

Heh, she's a bit of a classic.  The interesting part for me is she has almost instant power thanks to half the store (or more) being at least receptive to what she's saying.

I always wonder how that would play elsewhere.  I suppose in most siege scenarios the crazy religious character is scoffed at until it's too late (if they're actually right), so probably like that.  The way US politics has gone the last 20yrs, I can't help thinking The Myst is closer to the truth on how things would actually go down in some mass disaster scenario over there.

Play the same story here or in the UK and it just doesn't seem to fit (ala the recent Day of the Triffids remake which inserted some batshit nuns feeding the "plants" with the aged and disabled - in a poorly handled, but still snarky riff on Mother Teresa -).  I don't know though.  Maybe the Yanks think The Myst was OTT too.  They still made it work though. Not sayin' otherwise there.

Anyway, I keep leaping on movies that are ostensibly about religion like A Serious Man or Stalker, so that's no help. It's actually kinda hard to think of characters where it's not a big deal off the top of my head.  Could be just me.

It's the "subtle" qualifier that makes this a hard thread to substantially contribute to. As with other things, Hollywood generally does not do "subtle" well, especially in terms of religion. 

While I know it gets roundly panned and hooted at for some aspects, I think SIGNS has a couple of remarkably effective scenes WRT religion and how it affects the characters. The late night conversation between Merrill and Graham, in which the latter talks about "two kinds of people," is fantastic. As is the scene in the basement, where Graham nearly moans "I hate you!" at the God he stopped believing in. Water-allergic aliens and "it all happens for a reason" ideology aspects of the film notwithstanding, these play out as very real, believable effects or results of a character's faith (or lack thereof).

Sadly, the only other examples that come to mind are both from TV, which is sort of cheating, since Bartelby asked about film. I think the handling of Bartlett's customized Catholicism in The West Wing was done incredibly well, especially considering Sorkin is an atheist. Bartlett strives to live out the core ideas of his faith, and wrestles with how to apply it or adapt it WRT presidential decisions. I also really like the ongoing dialogue between Book and Mal Reynolds in Firefly; you can see the respective worldviews heavily impacting each character's choices and words, and how each one of them is forced to reconsider what they really believe.

That's a bit of a thread in itself: argue the religion of TV characters or something.

Anyway Malone from the Untouchables occurred to me.  It's pretty lightly touched upon, his saint being St Jude and all that.  Did he become a cop because of his saint or was that just the way it turned out?  We'll never know.  It goes nicely with his workmanlike, almost fatalistic approach to duty though.  Right to the end where he doesn't want his stupid token, it's too late for that one way or the other. He wants to finish the job.

Also has that little touch where it's pointed out that the feuding Irish and Italians of Chicago are both Catholic to the boot leather.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven 

I always imagined Rachel as also being Jewish, and that's why she and Monica were such close friends in high school. 

Didn't they come out and say this in the show? I remember being surprised by that, as it seemed sort of out of nowhere. I could be completely wrong. Your take on the characters seems spot on, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

Didn't they come out and say this in the show? I remember being surprised by that, as it seemed sort of out of nowhere. I could be completely wrong. Your take on the characters seems spot on, though.

I don't remember them explicitly calling her out as Jewish, but it's been a while since I've watched the show.  I remember she DID originally have a really big nose when she was a teenager before her nose job.  And a big part of her character initially is that she came from money.  Pretty stereotypical Jewish traits for characters to have, especially on a sitcom from the 90s.

Community is one of the more recents comedy shows that has a religiously diverse cast. This was emphasized in the first Christmas episode, Comparative Religion. The main cast is made up of Jeff Winger - Agnostic, Britta Perry - Atheist, Annie Edison - Jewish, Abed Nadir - Muslim, Troy Barnes - Jehovah's Witness, Shirley Bennett - Christian and Pierce Hawthorne who's a member of a cult whom he believes to be Buddhist. Their different viewpoints hilariously clash until they band together to fight against a bully who's terrorizing Jeff who's played by Anthony Michael Hall. The study group's personal beliefs also come up often as the series goes on.

There are plenty of folks who think better of The Big Lebowski as a whole than I do, but Walter's blinkered, half-understood commitment to his ex-wife's Judaism is an unforgettable trait.

Robert Duvall's The Apostle is probably the best American film on the topic of religion in the last 25 years. (Bill Maher's Religulous is the worst, and I say that as an atheist.) The scene where Duvall converts Billy Bob Thornton is a classic.

Neglect not Wise Blood, either ("The Church of Christ Without Christ. Where the blind can't see, the lame don't walk, and the dead stay that way"). Excellent double feature, those two.

I would add Resurrection to that Bible-belt collection, although it's not technically a religious film. Ellen Burstyn's character doesn't criticize or demean Christianity; she's just being honest when she says she feels her power coming from something purer, less proscribed. It's the people around her who insist on a concrete, dogmatic answer and can't accept her love for what it is.