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Men In Black 3 Discussion

post #1 of 98
Thread Starter 

They filmed this without a script? YOU DON’T SAY.

Better than the second. Because, how could it be worse? Otherwise, this is the “Margaret” of blockbuster movies. Characters show up and randomly vanish. People say things that seem like they’ll be relevant later, and then there’s no payoff. The film lurches from random location to location, and scenes feel comprised from endless reshoots - in one scene, a character addresses another character that might be about fifteen feet away, without either of them interacting, and it’s clear neither of them have ever once met. The magic of editing!

Smith is his usual obnoxious self, still somehow convinced his character is twentysomething. He’s smart unless he’s buffoonish, and when he starts slurring words or speaking in slang, it almost seems like a put-on. Fourteen years with this organization, and he’s acting like he just started work yesterday. Tommy Lee Jones outdoes himself in the grumpy-and-not-pleased-to-be-here department, but at least he has some chemistry with Smith. Brolin, as young Jones, seems so concentrated on keeping his impersonation consistent that he forgets to act.

A lot of actors show up in roles that seem like they’ll be relevant but are essentially cameos, including Emma Thompson, Will Arnett and Bill Hader - his Andy Warhol bit in the trailer represents most of his screen time, and no, it doesn’t seem like the filmmakers know anything about Warhol. In fact, they kind of hate him. Michael Stuhlbarg wears hobo pajamas and plays some sort of alien savant in the key of Robin Williams. The chick from the Pussycat Dolls shows up in the film’s first scene, where, within one minute, two white security guards, unprompted, essentially call her a whore. Right after, there’s a closeup of a wobbly cake bouncing alongside her breasts. Later, there’s some pretty off-putting race jokes involving other characters, particularly during a very ugly scene where Jay and Kay tear through an Asian restaurant and blow up a bunch of aliens (some disguised as pidgin-speaking Asians) who appear to be henchmen for a bad guy so powerful he never once needs henchmen again.

At first the overwhelming amount of monster effects and prosthetics are pretty incredible, but by the halfway point, they kind of vanish. Jemaine Clement is pretty fun as the bad guy, though, but you never really get to know much about his plan beyond some brief revenge and a standard-issue planet-invasion scheme. The roles takes advantage of his deep voice, but it’s a straight villain part with only some brief winks and some pretty kooky special effects - his body is host to a bunch of creepy-crawly organisms that scurry out of a gaping maw from his palm. I was fairly upset whenever they cut away from him. There aren’t a lot of effects or large-scale sequences either - for being a mega budget movie, it feels pretty small-ish, a lot of obvious small sets.

I hope this is the end of this series.

post #2 of 98

So this is the most expensive movie ever made?  350 million or something?

post #3 of 98

I'd been hearing that there was some positive word about this.  Nice to hear some balance.  I'm seeing this at a screening tomorrow.

post #4 of 98

This is about what I figured from the trailers. Nice to see my desire to NOT see this validated.

post #5 of 98

I got a free ticket buying MIB 1 over the weekend. Free buys some forgiveness. We'll see.

post #6 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

So this is the most expensive movie ever made?  350 million or something?

 

So where exactly did that money go if it apparently looks lowbudget, with no epic sequences and a 106 minute running time?

post #7 of 98

Big Willie's trailer of course.

 

GETTIN+BIGGY+Will+Smith+massive+double+decker+bFNYychsfSwl.jpg

post #8 of 98

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I'd been hearing that there was some positive word about this.  Nice to hear some balance.  I'm seeing this at a screening tomorrow.

 

If you look at the positive reviews on RT, the movie is being praised because it's "surprisingly decent" and  "not as bad as you'd think"

 

Also, the LA Times says the movie had a total cost of about 375 million (250 for the budget, 125 for worldwide marketing and distribution)

post #9 of 98

Jesus Christ. If that's not movie star excess at its most extreme, I don't know what is. I think that might be even worse than the legendary story of Ginger Rogers sending a limousine back because it was the wrong color.

 

Gabe: Tommy and Will still have chemistry? It seemed to be completely gone in the released clip at the restaurant. I also take it the action is as shockingly boring as the "gunfight" in that clip?

post #10 of 98

Just like MIB II, a lot of the budget is above-the-line costs. Smith's still a member of the $20 million club, and in order to get Jones to come back, they had to match that for him. Spielberg gets a payday for his executive producer credit, Sonnefeld has his moment of getting to bank it, and if Brolin's agent is worth a damn he got him an inflated paycheck as well. This is going to make half a billion worldwide easy, and so it's cash cow time. Just getting the main talent/crew in a room together cost $100 million. Add in a two year start and stop production schedule, plus the old adage that you can have your effects done well, done fast, or done cheaply, but you can only pick two.

post #11 of 98

A billion worldwide *easy*? I doubt it. I know AVENGERS is making a billion worldwide look easy, but usually that's not very easy to do. The previous two didn't come close to that and I don't think a Will Smith movie has ever made a billion worldwide. 3D isn't going to bump up the gross that much. Also, the film doesn't seem to be that great, so that's not going to help.

 

I think it'll wind up with something closer to 650-700.

post #12 of 98

Greg said half a billion easy...

post #13 of 98

Men in Black II did half a billion ten years ago. HALF. Given inflation plus 3D plus Smith, there's little reason to assume it'll do less than that.

post #14 of 98

oops
 

post #15 of 98

Well, shit. Incidentally, what the fuck has happened to Spielberg as a producer lately? In addition to apparently shitty TV (Terra Nova, The River, Falling Skies), he's had his name on the Transformers films, Cowboys & Aliens, and now this.

 

Granted, looking at his IMDB, he's also helped produce well-regarded stuff like The Pacific, True Grit (I was VERY surprised when his name popped up in the credits), and his own films, so I *guess* it evens out. And yes, I know the answer is "money". Thank Cthulu he's still a fantastic director (still need to see War Horse, damn it).

post #16 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Well, shit. Incidentally, what the fuck has happened to Spielberg as a producer lately? In addition to apparently shitty TV (Terra Nova, The River, Falling Skies), he's had his name on the Transformers films, Cowboys & Aliens, and now this.

 

Granted, looking at his IMDB, he's also helped produce well-regarded stuff like The Pacific, True Grit (I was VERY surprised when his name popped up in the credits), and his own films, so I *guess* it evens out. And yes, I know the answer is "money". Thank Cthulu he's still a fantastic director (still need to see War Horse, damn it).

 

Spielberg spreads himself too thin and slaps his name on anything these days.  He used to be way more discerning.  Sad.

post #17 of 98

Spielberg's always had a spotty executive producer track record. Lest we forget *batteries not included...

post #18 of 98

Lately? Spielberg's executive producing record has always been spotty. I'm not even sure how he chooses or what he does on them. He executive produced The Animaniacs for god's sakes.

 

EDIT: snap

post #19 of 98

His earlier producer stuff wasn't too bad.  Used Cars, Gremlins, THe Goonies, Back To The Future, The Money Pit, An American Tale, Amazing Stories, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Cape Fear...

post #20 of 98

Whoa, you better not be dissing Animaniacs there. That shit still holds up as well as classic Looney Tunes.

 

Looking back, Spielberg does seem to have an off-and-on record of either producing movies that are good, movies that are hits but not necessarily good, or both.

post #21 of 98

There's nothing wrong with Animaniacs but what the fuck did he have to do with it? 

post #22 of 98

Quite a bit, actually. He helped foster the idea, championed to get it made, and made sure the writers and showrunners had the freedom to stay true to the concept (there was a push that the show wasn't 'educational' enough, hence the Wheel of Morality gags). He even went as far as to approve scripts and come to recording sessions.

post #23 of 98

I'm pretty sure the head writers and producers of Animaniacs and the other shows he was involved in have said stuff along the lines of "He wasn't on the ground level, but we went over everything with him."

 

I am basing this purely on memories of interviews and commentaries, and am totally OK to be proven wrong.

 

Or what Greg said.

post #24 of 98

I choose not to believe anything you people have said.

post #25 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

His earlier producer stuff wasn't too bad.  Used Cars, Gremlins, THe Goonies, Back To The Future, The Money Pit, An American Tale, Amazing Stories, Who Framed Roger Rabbit, Cape Fear...

 

Yeah but then counter that with Batteries Not Inlcuded, Dad, The Flintstones, Casper, Young Sherlock Holmes, Seaquest, We're Back: A Dinosaur's Story...

 

He produces what he likes and nostalgia from his childhood. He's the original fanboy. And if you have aliens in your movie of any shape or size, he'll be there to produce it for you.

post #26 of 98

Hey now, Young Sherlock Holmes is actually pretty good.

post #27 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Yeah but then counter that with Batteries Not Inlcuded, Dad, The Flintstones, Casper, Young Sherlock Holmes, Seaquest, We're Back: A Dinosaur's Story...

 

Young Sherlock Holmes.....bad?

 

0.jpg

post #28 of 98

Hey now! Your kids will be giving the same face on Chud 2.0 15 years from now when you try to tell them Transformers was bad.

post #29 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Big Willie's trailer of course.

 

GETTIN+BIGGY+Will+Smith+massive+double+decker+bFNYychsfSwl.jpg


Please tell me that has spinning rims.

post #30 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Hey now! Your kids will be giving the same face on Chud 2.0 15 years from now when you try to tell them Transformers was bad.

 

God bless the "Transformers Clause" in my will. Kids mouth off about them being great, cut off!

post #31 of 98
I seriously didn't expect this thread to be a dissection of Spielberg's abilities as a producer. However, it is far more interesting than Men In Black 3.

I had no idea of the budget on this thing. Thats frightening.
post #32 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post
Michael Stuhlbarg wears hobo pajamas

 

I think this is the greatest five words that have ever been uttered in the history of mankind.

post #33 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Gabe: Tommy and Will still have chemistry? It seemed to be completely gone in the released clip at the restaurant. I also take it the action is as shockingly boring as the "gunfight" in that clip?

1) Somewhat. TLJ could have chemistry with anyone, he's that good. He still hates the shit out of being in this franchise - his role is essentially a bookend, he's entirely absent from the second act and big finale.

2) Yes.

 

Honestly, I hadn't heard the $300+ million budget talk. That's absurd. Nothing in this movie looks like it's all that expensive compared to the usual tentpole. Even $200 (considering the "talent") seems like a stretch. It merely confirms what I suspected, that half of this movie is on the cutting room floor. Alec Baldwin had to be scrapped from the production (he was playing young Rip Torn), but looking back, I bet he had a substantial role. At the beginning of the movie, Rip Torn is dead (his funeral scene has "deleted scene" written all over it, and yet, there it is).

 

But since they've already given lip service to his character long having run the organization, you'd expect Kay traveling back to 1969 to encounter Young Rip Torn, but he's nowhere in sight. I understand Baldwin jumped ship once the production hiatus lasted something like two or three months, but I've gotta believe he had a whole lot to do.

 

The movie also zigzags everywhere. It goes from the Moon, then to NYC, to 1969, then to Madison Avenue, to Coney Island, to Chelsea, to Shea Stadium, and back and forth to MiB headquarters, and then to Cape Canaveral. You get the vibe people are teleporting (they jetpack, offscreen, from NYC to Florida, which they claim is something like a two or three hour trip), but this thing feels superglued together. There's also an ongoing reference as to how thirst for chocolate milk suggests a temporal disturbance, which is never explained and never goes anywhere.

 

Then again, maybe these stupid things, which randomly show up for one scene, cost a whole lot.

 

mib3_poster.gif

post #34 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

Honestly, I hadn't heard the $300+ million budget talk. That's absurd. Nothing in this movie looks like it's all that expensive compared to the usual tentpole. Even $200 (considering the "talent") seems like a stretch. It merely confirms what I suspected, that half of this movie is on the cutting room floor. Alec Baldwin had to be scrapped from the production (he was playing young Rip Torn), but looking back, I bet he had a substantial role. At the beginning of the movie, Rip Torn is dead (his funeral scene has "deleted scene" written all over it, and yet, there it is).

 

Dead? With a $300 million budget not ONE person could've paid the $1000 to bail Rip Torn out of jail so he'd get one scene in the film? For shame.

 

293.ad.riptorn.010509.jpg

post #35 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Whoa, you better not be dissing Animaniacs there. That shit still holds up as well as classic Looney Tunes.

 

Looking back, Spielberg does seem to have an off-and-on record of either producing movies that are good, movies that are hits but not necessarily good, or both.

I was just casually skimming through this thread (I'm not all that excited about this movie, even though I loved the first one) and couldn't believe my eyes when suddenly a discussion of "Animaniacs" broke out. Shit like this is why I love the CHUD forum. I can't imagine anywhere else where such a tangent might happen.

 

I was watching "Animaniacs" DVD stuff recently and checking out some of the behind-the-scenes featurettes. I can't believe how sophisticated the writing on this show was, how much free rein some very talented writers had to do some immensely clever and imaginative things (which would never be allowed on animated TV these days) and how 'inside' and obscure some of its movie references were.

 

There's an episode that's a parody of freaking Lee Strasberg's acting theater in the '50s, with cameos by James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, and a young Marlon Brando, lamenting the fact that someday he'll become a fat shit who loses his acting ability. There's also a flashback of the Warners stalking and terrorizing James Cagney in his heydey, as a narrator informs us that they scared the hell out of him because they considered him "their special friend".

 

Watching "Animaniacs" again, I wondered if one reason Spielberg didn't direct any movies between 1994 and 1997 was because a lot of his energy was tied up in this show. It's just a theory, but I believe it's a valid one, because in my opinion this cartoon holds up as well as anything he did in that period. I agree that the amount of credibility a movie earns from having his name on it as a producer is seemingly dwindling, though.

 

I remember watching "Transformers" thinking probably the only reason this stupid movie has any substance in it at all is probably the Spielberg factor. The only heart in the movie was the relationship between Shia Labeouf's character and his car that ends up being a Transformer...a relationship similar (albeit in a much, much less effective way) to the central one in "E.T.".


Edited by Naisu Baddi - 5/22/12 at 9:46pm
post #36 of 98

Here's my thing about Steven Spielberg...

 

If a film's been directed by Spielberg, it gets a look no questions asked.  The guy has made more great, mass-audience films than almost anybody out there.  If a film's been exective-produced by Spielberg, I have a look at the others involved and base the decision on their track records.  'Cause nowadays anyone can make a film that looks like it has the Spielberg magic but few have the ability or the heart to actually bring it off.  (Aside from the phone-it-in job of Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.)  In fact, 2011 was a great year for Spielberg the director; seeing the light-hearted adventure of The Adventures of Tintin and War Horse back to back was like being treated to the Spielberg of old -- the 80's/early 90's director who made nearly every work an event worthy of one's time.

 

That said... Men In Black 3D.  Loved the first, was bored by the second though it had a moment or two.  Really have (had) hopes for three.  Guess I'll know later this week.

post #37 of 98

Men in Black should have been a standalone film then branched into a TV series- hell, MiB2 was basically an extended TV episode considering how short it was.  I'd have much more respect for an hour-long Law and Order:Milky Way starring guys like Kevin Hart and Ron Perlman.

 

Even if TLJ had said 'F- off' when they tried to pull him back for MiB2 and they made Tony Shalhoub's character into Will Smith's partner (or Linda Fiorentino, who for continuity should have been it anyway), it might had aspired to be something other than a rehash of the first movie.

 

I'm curious only because Jemaine is in it (and I didn't even realize that from the trailer)...but I'm probably better off watching Flight of the Conchords DVDs.

post #38 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Beckinsale View Post

Men in Black should have been a standalone film then branched into a TV series- hell, MiB2 was basically an extended TV episode considering how short it was.  I'd have much more respect for an hour-long Law and Order:Milky Way starring guys like Kevin Hart and Ron Perlman.

 

Even if TLJ had said 'F- off' when they tried to pull him back for MiB2 and they made Tony Shalhoub's character into Will Smith's partner (or Linda Fiorentino, who for continuity should have been it anyway), it might had aspired to be something other than a rehash of the first movie.

 

I'm curious only because Jemaine is in it (and I didn't even realize that from the trailer)...but I'm probably better off watching Flight of the Conchords DVDs.

 

Uh, it totally did. The animated show? The one I won't shut up about? It was, once again, pretty damn good.

post #39 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

 

Yeah but then counter that with Batteries Not Inlcuded, Dad, The Flintstones, Casper, Young Sherlock Holmes, Seaquest, We're Back: A Dinosaur's Story...

 

 

Oh come on. Batteries Not Included was kinda sweet.

post #40 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

1) Somewhat. TLJ could have chemistry with anyone, he's that good. He still hates the shit out of being in this franchise - his role is essentially a bookend, he's entirely absent from the second act and big finale.

 

This is what I was afraid, so Tommy Lee is barely in it? Why even bother making this movie in the first place. The 2nd one is one of the very few movies I think I fell asleep in the theater. This looks horrific, and it looks like it's still a mess. Taking a big pass ...

post #41 of 98

Do these guys live in MIB headquarters?  Are they allowed to have social lives?  The sexual frustration in that joint must be thick enough to cut with a knife.

post #42 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

 

Uh, it totally did. The animated show? The one I won't shut up about? It was, once again, pretty damn good.

Huh.  Missed that.  Although apparently only Target has the series on DVD.  Wikipedia description sounds decent, especially the description of Alpha.

post #43 of 98
I understand studios are profit driven and creatively bankrupt, but the behind the scenes drama on this film seems like exactly the kind of thing they'd want to avoid if their goal was to make more money. Why go into production on a movie without a finished script? Now this POS is the most expensive movie of all time, and their profit margins are lower than they otherwise would be. Worse still, it seems they screwed it up so badly on a creative level that word of mouth might further drive down box office. No one will want to buy the DVD. I know they don't care about making good films, but shouldn't they want to make them efficiently?
post #44 of 98
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmerica View Post

 

This is what I was afraid, so Tommy Lee is barely in it? Why even bother making this movie in the first place. The 2nd one is one of the very few movies I think I fell asleep in the theater. This looks horrific, and it looks like it's still a mess. Taking a big pass ...

The funny thing is, at the end of this film...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

The status quo is completely restored, meaning that Jay and Kay are still partners, and Tommy Lee Jones is still doing this demanding job despite the years clearly catching up to him. He looks HAGGARD.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post

Do these guys live in MIB headquarters?  Are they allowed to have social lives?  The sexual frustration in that joint must be thick enough to cut with a knife.

You get to see Jay's (Smith's) bachelor pad, with a framed picture dedicated to the late Frank the pug.

Kind of a misstep - they show Jay playing a video game. After fourteen years of fighting aliens, what does a (unseen) videogame play like to him? It's a weird moment of reality that kind of makes you question the whole MiB thing. A rare day off, and he just goes home and wails on some buttons? I'm probably overthinking it. It's also a totally unnecessary scene, but most of this movie is like this- scenes set in specifically-detailed locations that last about two or three minutes and add nothing to the narrative.

 

There is a MiB romance hinted at in this film. It brings up all sorts of questions about this organization that I would be interested in if Izzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

post #45 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

There is a MiB romance hinted at in this film.

 

Between J and K?!

 

Pretty ballsy, Sony.

post #46 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 View Post
Do these guys live in MIB headquarters?  Are they allowed to have social lives?  The sexual frustration in that joint must be thick enough to cut with a knife.

 

Yes, THIS.  See, that's the stuff I've been wondering about since MIB1.  They make a point of saying "You will live where we say, you will eat where we say." while Jay is suiting up for the first time.  And that's the stuff they should be doing in these MIB sequels.  Fleshing out their world.  Who are the MIB when they're not on-duty?  We've seen Kay keeping tabs on his wife in Truro.  And it's hinted at that Kay was Rosario Dawson's father toward the end of MIB2...  I'm glad we're finally seeing Jay's apartment in MIB3.  (Does the set design features some visual jokes/props to show what they've been up to over the last ten years?)  At least it's a step in the right direction.  Did Jay have a family?  Does he keep tabs on them, too...?  Show his regrets.  Give us some depth of character.  There are ways to do this without sacrificing the fun or the adventure.  These things can even add to it.

 

I wish they'd get into concepts like rogue MIB agents out for revenge, maybe some MIB teams where both agents are aliens...   And though I know these flicks are sold as family friendly films with Dunkin' Donuts tie-ins and such, I'd love to see a darker edge.  The MIB are pretty much a cross between the Ghostbusters and the Los Angeles Hat Squad of the 40's -- nameless entities that deal justice, but against otherworld forces.  I'm not saying they have to go The Dark Knight or anything.  Just more in the direction of intensity (The X-Files) and not so goofball silly (the two-headed Johnny Knoxville and "pimpslapping the shiznit" out of Andy Warhol).  Or, more simply put:  More Ghostbusters, less Ghostbusters II...  If that makes any sense.


Edited by Engineer - 5/22/12 at 7:31pm
post #47 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer View Post

And it's hinted at that Kay was Rosario Dawson's father toward the end of MIB2... 

 

Whaaaaa? I guess I've neuralized the film from my mind.

post #48 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post
Whaaaaa? I guess I've neuralized the film from my mind.

 

If I recall it correctly, there was a suggested romance between Kay and Queen Laurana back in the 70's and that he was "her bodyguard and lover."  And toward the end when he's trying to get her to safety Kay tells Rosario's character something along the lines of "You look just like your mother," in a very parental way

post #49 of 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engineer View Post

 

If I recall it correctly, there was a suggested romance between Kay and Queen Laurana back in the 70's and that he was "her bodyguard and lover."  And toward the end when he's trying to get her to safety Kay tells Rosario's character something along the lines of "You look just like your mother," in a very parental way

 

Yeah, and when J begins to ask if K and Laurana were lovers, he quickly changes the subject.

post #50 of 98

Just came back from the movie.

 

Skip it.

 

It's a nothing.  I thought it was 'pleasant' enough.  But when you spend an ungodly amount of money, 'pleasant enough' is really pretty offensive.  

 

I was probably looking for gaps in the movie more due to Gabe's original post, but there are definitely parts of the movie that just jump to and fro arbitrarily.  It's really just the short runtime and the illusion of momentum that made me not really give a shit about it.  

 

Brolin's performance was pretty fun, I thought.  I thought he and Smith had solid chemistry and I found the relationship between J and K pretty touching (a lot of which is piggybacked from the first movie, I'm sure).  I actually found it kinda sad to see Tommy Lee Jones barely awake through the less-than-10 minutes of screentime he has in this.  Come to think of it, I don't even think Tommy Lee Jones was in this, but a guy wearing a latex TLJ mask.  City-miles, indeed.  Whatever make-up they caked on the guy, he just looked WEIRD.  Add this to the fact that it looks like he doesn't want to be there, I'm convinced it's a TLJonesBot in the movie.

 

The movie's not even funny.  The biggest laughs I got were from little throwaway moments I'm not even sure were intentional.

 

But like MIB2, I didn't hate it.  I'll just forget I ever saw it.

 

 

 

SPOILERS:  

 

You know what the best part is, though?  The series has finally managed to turn J's recruitment into the MIB into an act of destiny.  HAAAAAAHAHAHA

 

Also, the 'we gotta get high' guy from the trailer implores Smith to not interact with Brolin at all.  He doesn't explain why, but if you've seen enough time-travel movies it's not a big deal.  The problem is that aside from Smith trying to lie his way out of 60s MIB for a couple of minutes, it's never an issue or a threat for the rest of the movie.  

 

 SPOILERS

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