PROMETHEUS post-release discussion - Page 6

Fuck snakes, I'm with Indy on this.  But what happened to the dude who seemingly swallowed one entirely?

It jumped out of his mouth, scaring the scottish lady and fucked right off out of the film. Then I think they just left him there, cos, he's dead and the other guy was mutating rapidly. 

 

'Clicking the links'? Apart from the website stuff I mentioned, all of that is from trailers and TV spots. You don't have to go looking for those things, you see them at the cinema before another movie or while watching TV.

 

I'd say this film has been pushed down the throat of the audience more than any other I can think of. There was the first-ever live Tweet commercial that made headlines in it's own right, and even the trailers themselves had trailers! It was built up to be an epic event, so I'm not going to condemn the movie-going audience from buying into it. Companies don't spend millions on this stuff because they don't want people to see it.

 

Simple as this: If you don't want people to think you've made an Alien movie, don't fill the marketing with Alien imagery.

 

 

 

 

I agree with this. All of the monsters/bad things only really appeared once and then were gone. Snakes, Fifield zombie, contagion, little squid, big squid, Engineer - any of them would have made a decent, constant threat, but they just had their moment and were forgotten.

I haven't seen the movie yet, but here's my thought based on what I've read:

 

They created us and left clues for how to find them, with the intention of wiping us out if we ever did manage to find them.  They were happy with their creations so long as we remained primitive and posed no threat.  However, they knew there might be a time when we were advanced enough to pose a threat.  That's when Plan B --releasing some variation of the xenos-- would come into play.  Somewhere along the way, a whole bunch of them die for whatever reason.  Humans eventually show up, wake a sleeping "sentry" and start demanding answers.  He then tries to put Plan B into effect.

I both hate and love this film as I hate and love myself.

 

But you know what, it's a far cry from Alien: R and those blasphemous AvP 'films'. This has cinematic balls, a punchy scene worthy of Kane's birthing at the dinner table and enough Lindelofish questions (that bastard) to send us fanboys into conjecture overload about Alien biology and other such bollocks.

 

Also, best use of 3d so far.

 

I'm off to see it again asap!

 

You're not understanding my point. He's made a film that occurs in the Alien universe; I'm not disputing that. I'm protesting the notion that Prometheus should be judged against Alien, and also the expectation that the film could reasonably have lived up to Alien. Alien imagery abounds in much of the marketing because it's an Alien prequel, but that doesn't mean anyone should expect it to be Alien-- especially when the director says you shouldn't. Didn't we all learn from the Star Wars prequels? (Not that Prometheus is anywhere near as bad as those films.)

 

And sure, you can't really avoid trailers that come attached to movies you see in theaters, or TV spots that pop up while you're watching Mad Men. But "clicking the links" is, indeed, accurate when you're talking about the teasers for the trailer, or the live Tweet commercial, or the "Happy Birthday David" video or the Shaw video or, well, everything else. Where's this "epic" build-up you mention? For the most part, it's on the Internet; Prometheus has enjoyed a mainstream marketing campaign little more puffed up than most blockbusters. 

I can see why they had a tough time selling the film. They obviously want the connection to the franchise implied to hook people in, if they didn't it would just seem silly. But at the same time it's most definitely not a conventional 'prequel' and does not lead directly into the Alien franchise, there's nothing familiar to mainstream audiences, no Sigourney Weaver, and no alien, until the end anyway, which they can't show in the trailers. (not that showing the last scene of a film in trailers has ever stopped studios before)

I can't really fault the marketing guys too much, except for the fact that they showed way too much footage of this film in trailers.

I've always wanted a solution to this remake madness going on, and I'm hoping Prometheus will usher in an era of stories set in universes that we love and so avoid tarnishing existing stories by remaking or sequelising them. People generally want more Star Wars films (me, not so much) and so without dragging beloved characters through the mud like in the abomination that is Crystal Skull, they can simply tell new stories in the same universe. It blows my mind this has not been happening more often really.

I can only agree with most of the reviews. It's an okay movie that looks great but suffers from plot holes, clunky dialogue, uninteresting characters and unnecessary and damaging connections to the Alien movies. And that horrible, horrible old man makeup on Pearce. Fassbender is the best part of it, but his story sort of never goes anywhere, much like the rest of the movie. It too often felt like a lazy mess that works best if you don't think too much about what is going on.

Duhhbble post.

 

That is basically my theory as well - kind of like a nastier version of the Star Trek idea of not making contact with a species until they've achieved warp travel. I'm also guessing David's motivations for what he does are to use the ship as a kind of lab test experiment for the biological weapons they were presumably expecting to find (which might also explain why the captain was the one who mysteriously had that information), which they might expect him to be immune to as a robot. Once the test is complete and the company knows exactly what they're dealing with, they'd know what to send for the next mission.

Theory doesn't pan out because:

a) Carbon dating places the massacred blue hulks at 2,000 years old, plus I think the star map showed Earth as the destination, which means they were going to wipe us out before we'd even learnt to fly, and

b) You haven't seen the film so stop theorising! Just headbutt a wall and go into the film with a blank slate or experience a really shitty cinema-going visit.

As for David's actions, I assume he did that because Weyland told him to (was this before or after Weyland's "try harder" message?), because he wanted to see what effect it had. He's on this trip looking for elixir after all.

I have seen it - Derek's the one to lecture! You may have a point about a). I guess to find out we'll just have to wait for the sequel that'll probably never be made!

I also need to watch it again, it's beginning to turn into a blur in my memory.

I'm still bummed out about Charlize's exit though. I remember audibly moaning in sadness (while everyone else was cursing her for running in a straight line).

Havent posted on here for like a year until tonight. Saw this earlier and its now 2 in the morning and I am still rolling it around in my brain.

 

My general feeling is that it was interesting but unsatisfying. It entertained me, but i dont feel a great need to revisit it.

 

It had good performances all around but there were at least 10 characters not required.

 

The black goo, the snakes, the squid baby- none of it tied together and seemed consistent.

 

The SJ role in our creation is not properly explained.

 

Sci-fi is supposed to be about asking 'big questions' and this completely let us down. I was expecting a thoughtful and emotional exploration about meeting your maker but what i got was Alien Lite.

 

I think the film suffered trying to craft an original story and a prequel to a classic franchise, it had a foot in both worlds and never satisfied on either front.

 

A better writer would have delved into the themes and questions this film posed but the whole endeavour felt shallow. This was my most anticipated film of the year and i am sad it  turned out so 'meh'

 

This drum need to keep on being banged over and over and over again. Please, please, do not go into this movie without blanking your mind first. Go into this as fresh as possible. You'll be glad that you did. 

 

As for David, I think that's the only read on him, really. I think it's possible to argue that in obeying Weyland, he's child-like in a number of ways-- curious, destructive, obedient/eager to please father, etc-- but ultimately he has no free will. More to the point he has no emotional drives, so he's really just following orders. He seems sinister, and he is, but only because the heart that commands him is, well, selfishly fixated on personal gain at any cost.

Movie is getting worse the more I reflect upon it.   So many of the characters actions, make little to no sense.

 

It would have worked better without anything having to do with the Alien movies. Dealing with big questions didn't work when they had to fill half the movie with partly retconned connections to the Alien universe that just manages to demystify the aliens and the space jockey without even trying to really answering anything.

 

This is the main offender for me and I have to wonder if there's not a more cynical motivation for it, because as an artistic choice it's akin to reducing the Mona Lisa to the function of door-stop.

 

I find it odd that Scott would deflate such a perfect unanswered question that he himself posed in the most uninteresting way. The requests not to go into Prometheus expecting an Alien movie seem disingenuous to me when it's premise explores the most lingering, provocative and discussed aspect of that movie. Those few moments in the SJ chamber in Alien still have a profundity and unease that take speculation into lofty and uncomfortable places in a way that Prometheus does not. The questions Prometheus asks just aren't that sophisticated, and the very fact that it openly does ask, rather than suggest, seem more in line with a teenager believing they are the first to ever have these "big ideas".

 

It's worth watching, I'd even like to see it again, but it's not what I was expecting with Scott's much more 'grown up', grounded and almost unassuming previous sci-fi entries. It struck me as more a fantasy movie and at times seemed to have more in common with Star Trek.

And of the two protagonists final scene, I couldn't help but think "punch it Chewie!" as they jumped to hyperspace in their commandeered alien ship. Not quite what I was expecting at all :/

Edited by blipper - 6/6/12 at 1:55am

The whole space jockey thing is handled so weirdly. That giant strange figure in Alien was "just" supposed to be a large humanoid wearing a helmet with a design that doesn't make any sense considering how the engineers looked? I guess one could argue that the creature seen in Alien was different, but then why include the space jockey in Prometheus? That just leaves us with two beings that we don't really know anything about.

 

The black goo changing the DNA in different ways is interesting, but it doesn't make much sense either. When swalloed it breaks down engineers and humans creating new life forms. Worms turn into hostile snake things. Getting dipped in goo turns humans into raging zombies. Gooey human sperm plus uterus makes a giant squid version of a face hugger that together with an engineer creates a form of the classic alien monster. But according to the mural those things already (have) exist(ed), so what's the deal with that?

Yes, the black goo results struck me also as bewilderingly arbitrary and following little in the way of logical progression/evolution - particularly the final scenes. It came across as rather forced.

 

I know I keep harping on this, but what does Vickers actually do to deserve that specific death scene. It plays out as some kind of villainous comeuppance, but she doesn't do anything to be a villain. Her big villain moment is stopping the crew from coming back onto the Prometheus which is both far more practical than outright villainous and one of the bigger shout outs to ALIEN (with Vickers taking the Ripley role).  I feel like I was supposed to hate Vickers, and celebrate her death, but aside from being a little terse she was one of my favourite characters in the film.

She has sex. 

 

Horror movie 101. 

Guys, I 'think' we might be experiencing a MANUFACTURED 'Kingdom of Heaven'-type deal, here...

 

(the rustling and snapping sounds you hear is ME fucking clutching at straws.)

 

But, I've just found a link to the delayed "Art of Prometheus" book and...Well, see for yourself.

Doesn't change the STORY, mind, but I don't recall half of this goodness.

 

http://www.trictrac.net/jeux/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1591422
 

 

You bring up a good point, because at the point where Vickers took a stand with the flamethrower I honestly thought for a moment that we'd been tricked by marketing and that Vickers was going to be the last survivor and take on the Ripley role.  Alas...

Another example of something that doesn't make any sense is Holloway's reaction after finding the dead engineer. They travel for over two years, just happen to find some "temples", look inside one room, and then they draw the conclusion that the engineers are all dead. What about the other temples? What about the rest of the planet?

Hey, you are obviously ignoring the characters access to the script

They also have access to a hologram that shows masses of engineers running around in what sure looks like stark panic and the one getting his block knocked off, not to mention Fifield's "pups" which seem to locate absolutely nothing until just before he and Milburn meet Angry Space Snakes. If the team had found nothing whatsoever save for the ampoules in the big chamber, I'd agree.

 

As to the black goo...well, yes, different strokes for different species. Fifield goes berserk. Holloway, had he not opted out via flambe a'la Vickers, would almost certainly have suffered the same fate. They're the only two beings we see the black goo infect, and I assume that the Angry Space Snakes are products of that infection per their own species. As for Shaw's reaction to Holloway's infected sperm, I really can't see being bothered by the divergence between Belly Squid and Rage Zombie. Again, the nature of the infection isn't really the point.

Holy penis cobra, what is that.

- the first image is not in the movie
- Fifield is never seen that up close, you never see how good that freakish make-up actually looks
- the other mutated guy? now that is something
- and the guy under that, who's that? An unused design for the early alien?

As for Vickers - she didn't even just decide to roast Holloway. Holloway begged to be burned. He knew shit wasn't going to end well.

You mean...

 

 

or...

Upper picture.

What do you think?

I think it's the final Fifield transformation...wish my French was better.

 

A tad TOO Newborn for my tastes, but head and shoulders (sorry, David) BETTER than the Newborn.

 

Also, the title of the lower picture translates as 'The Deacon'...make of THAT what you will.

Edited by Graham - 6/6/12 at 3:09pm

They actually did something with that early design - in the early trailers you can spot the mutated head:
http://www.prometheus-movie.com/community/forums/topic/2298
I've no idea why they decided to go with a way more generic zombie look.

 

As for David. In the opening montage I would have loved to see him do experiments with smaller lifeforms. Vermins, insects. Showing his fascination for creation of life. Maybe even working on another droid. Also,o the poisoning of Holloway could have been more subtle.

It seems like a more mutated Fifield was supposed to appear when Weyland is leaving to meet the engineer. At least if the guys shooting in the background are the same ones seen escorting Weyland in the trailer.

...why do i feel the poor box-office for this film is somehow my fault...?

Because you touch yourself at night!

Fassbender and Theron kept this movie alive, but it wasn't enough. A great looking chassis with a cheap engine and shitty gas mileage. My interest never vaulted past mild.

Like most, I feel very conflicted about this.  First the good stuff:  Certain individual scenes are intense.   The visuals and design are awseome, it's very creepy and atmospheric and as expected there's a fantastic Fassbender performance.  And I liked the ideas and questions the first two acts raise.

 

But...it's partially let down by a convulted, confusing script. Too many cooks.  And someone should tell Lindelof that people talking about the big questions does not equal intelligent sci-fi.  Maybe there's an extended cut which fixes some of the problems.

 

I'm sure these questions have been raised but I don't have time to read the entire thread.

 

First, the connection to ALIEN.  We know that the space-jockey / engineer from ALIEN on LV-426 crashed after an alien burst out of his chest.  I assume he was escaping from the planet in PROMETHEUS, LV-233.  This happened 2,000. years ago.  So what was the point of the cave paintings?  Why did a bunch of the Engineers come to Earth at different times and tell us to pop by these planets, if they were military facilities?  Did they come before shit went to hell?

 

Why was there a painting of an Alien on the wall?  Who made it?  The Engineers were obviously shit scared of the Aliens, so why would they do it?  

What was the point of the giant Engineer head?  It literally served no purpose.

 

What were David's motivations?  Curiosity?  Was he just taking orders from Weyland?

 

Why the hell didn't anyone ask Shaw why the fuck is she covered in blood with surgical staples in her abdomen.  It's completely ignored by everyone apart from David who just makes a wisecrack about  her abortion?

 

What the hell was that zombie /  spider thing?  Why did those guys approach the snake thingy  when before they were shit scared?

 

I have a ton of other questions but no time right now.   So, overall I enjoyed it for the look and a couple of performances, but it's pretty dumb.  

You know your huge, sci-fi freak out spectacle movie is in trouble when the single most fascinating thing in it is watching Michael Fassbender perform menial tasks.

^ and the grossest moment is seeing Weyland's toenails.
 

I found myself willing enjoyment through most of the film.  Not a good sign.

I enjoyed shit out of moments of the film (Fifield and Milburn alone was funny, tense and scary and Milburns death was horrific, David tormenting Shaw after Charlie burns) but I just can't shake the feeling that it was a big load of pish.

 

Sloppy, sloppy scriptwriting.  "Father" urgh "that bet's still on!" eyeball roll and urgh.

 

Conveniences.  First place they go on the planet, ah here's where they are, here's a fucking driveway, and here's a ship headed for Earth (out of all the other presumably seeded planets) etc etc etc.

 

And NO-ONE bats an eyelid that she has a caesar, no-one checks the pod, the two people she knocks out with some heavy thing don;t ask her why?

 

And I fucking hated, HATED the very ending.  She gets knocked up by a mutation, that attacks an engineer and lays a proto-alien?  fuck off.  Don;t try to join the dots that much.

 

Plus the script references to Alien and Aliens just grated.  I was rolling my eyes through the whole of her sign off.

 

I haven't been that disappointed in a movie in ages, and the more I think about it the more it fucks me off.

Looked beautiful though, and the 3D was amazing.

Also, agree with the comments about needing more constant rather than "something new something new something new"

 

The snakey things were great, one kill, gone.  Him getting his arm broke and it getting into his suit was great horror.  

 

Or more mutant Fifield.  Need to stop thinking about this, it's really pissing me off.

I hated the way they explained plot points through dumb exposition. Shaw asks why they are trying to destroy Earth and David just says something like: "First they create, then they destroy". Huh? How does that explain the Engineers motivations?

The opening shots were some of the most gorgeous I've ever seen though. Was that Iceland? Stunning scenery.

What was an appropriate 'sense of wonder' soundtrack for that part was wholly inappropriate for the rest of the film though.

Can't help thinking several of these recent points are crossing the line from legit criticism into butthurt nerdrage territory!

 

 

It's an explicit plot point that they don't understand their motivations. Kind of lame, cinematically speaking, but deliberate. I mean, the original Prometheus myth is about being punished for the pursuit of knowledge after all.

It may be deliberate, but what's the point of it all? It's typical Lindelof. Being obtuse and mysterious just for the sake of it. And then providing no answers.

I do wonder if anyone would have been satisfied if the film had tried to answer the big question of "why". Frankly, "because they could" works just as well as any theory offered in the film, and I kind of like the idea of the Engineers being glorified, god-like lab coats experimenting with creation at their leisure. More than anything I think the film wants us to make our own truth, which I think is completely acceptable and which I think ties together throughout all of the creation stories that crop up in the film. Why did the Engineers create humanity? Why did humanity create David/the pups? In the case of the latter, for reasons of function; David serves broader, varied purposes where the pups have a very specific one. I wonder if the Engineers similarly created humans for one intention or more, and seek to destroy us as we've outlived those intentions.

 

Of course, Lindelof and Scott aren't telling, but I didn't really think we'd end with the Engineers explaining the reasons behind life, the universe, and everything. Ignoring the fact that that's a tall order for even a two hour movie, and also the fact that most answers would probably be decried as being ridiculous by one camp or another, I think the point of the film is more about why Shaw and Holloway want to meet their makers so badly and less about getting answers, and maybe also the inherent danger of knowing where we come from.

 

Why, so we'll go see the next one of course! It'll trigger a whole wave of movies where you have to see the sequel to explain what was actually going on in the movie before. A new cinematic golden age.

looking at that art book, I sort of liked some of the those unused designs.  as well as the newborn looking alien monster, which I assume is what Fifiield would have eventually looked like?

I like the "in helmet" designs too, you can see the Alien influence.

 

Fuck, I'm getting dragged to this film tomorrow by my brother.  I made him pay for the tickets.  Maybe I can sneak into Battleship instead.

From the opening ritualistic scene and the quasi-religious imagery that's found in the pyramid I get the impression the Engineering race have a deeply spiritual motivation for their life creation 'work'. Humans as they currently are (particularly culminating in David) are perhaps an affront to that and smack of dangerous arrogance in lacking that spiritual dimension.

I fear that Scott (were he to make a sequel) is leading to point where the 'God' species Shaw finds are suitably impressed by her more spiritual nature and decide humans are actually pretty chill yo.

 

Maybe the Engineers see humans creating artificial life like David and consider that power to be something only Engineers should possess? I actually kind of like that as a motivating force behind their plan to destroy/punish humanity. As far as Shaw goes, I feel like it's her fate to never receive the answers she seeks; mostly I just dislike the idea of Prometheus 2: Wishful Thinking actually putting her in a room with a bunch of Engineers and having them decide to convey to her their reasons for creating humanity in the first place. Part of me actually doesn't want to know, if only because I doubt the reason would be as compelling or moving as I'd want it to be.