PROMETHEUS post-release discussion - Page 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damar 

It's basically the Thing remake all over again.

 No its not.

And as for whether it seemed like an original story shoe-horned into the Alien mythos or if it seemed like an Alien prequel that was written away from it, well, it felt like...neither? It just felt like it was its thing, except for in the last couple of minutes which were kind doing the Alien tie-in thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damar 

It's basically the Thing remake all over again.

No, it's not...It's more reboot, than rehash...beautiful to look at, but left me empty...I need to watch it again.

Billy's post is spot-on...just got to add it only feels like half a film.

EVERYONE is gonna blame Lindeloff...I blame Ridley.

Also got to add the creature life-cycle(s) makes NO sense as far as propogation of a species goes...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy Youngblood 

 No its not.

 

And as for whether it seemed like an original story shoe-horned into the Alien mythos or if it seemed like an Alien prequel that was written away from it, well, it felt like...neither? It just felt like it was its thing, except for in the last couple of minutes which were kind doing the Alien tie-in thing.

So the Space Jockey element felt organic to the story?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham 

Also got to add the creature life-cycle(s) makes NO sense as far as propogation of a species goes...

Well, that seems to go along with the first Alien and it's deleted scene of the crew turning into eggs. 

It did for all the 7-8 minutes he was on screen.

Does it "ruin" the mystery of the first film or is it enlightening and satisfying?  That's the only question I care about.

last question, then I'm out till next Friday.

The squibbles creature, how does it "work" as the monster of the film.  As effective and memorable as the Alien, or a standard Neville Page creation.

Was the presence HR Giger felt at all?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

 

Well, that seems to go along with the first Alien and it's deleted scene of the crew turning into eggs. 

There is a 'cycle' in  A L I E N, that anyone can understand...the life-cycle in PROMETHEUS seems to require too much LUCK and COINCIDENCE for us to reach an 'adult' creature...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

last question, then I'm out till next Friday.

 

The squibbles creature, how does it "work" as the monster of the film.  As effective and memorable as the Alien, or a standard Neville Page creation.

Was the presence HR Giger felt at all?

Unfortunately, if I answered this, it would ruin the film for you...it's NOT a bog-standard Page creation, though.

Also if the Giger you're looking for is '79 air-brush Giger...he is sadly absent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham 

 

There is a 'cycle' in  A L I E N, that anyone can understand...the life-cycle in PROMETHEUS seems to require too much LUCK and COINCIDENCE for us to reach an 'adult' creature...

Yeah, the thing I'm seeing is that in this film we're dealing with as much a real species as an advanced bioweapon...in fact I see the "Adult" creature as something of an accident.

Ah yeah, true, wasn't really thinking about that.

I was rather bothered with the crew being mostly faceless Weyland goons who you couldn't care less if they died or not, which even became acknowledged in the movie when

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham 

...just got to add it only feels like half a film.

And of course, the original concept was two films...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2010/apr/27/ridley-scott-alien-prequels-3d

I guess boxoffice will determine whether a 2nd is greenlit.

I shouldn't be reading all these spoilers, but I am.  And it is not sounding good. 

Don't get me wrong...There is SO MUCH good about this flick...EVERYONE should see it... (pockets FOX cash)...but I feel that we aren't being told Ridley's road to his 'vision' of an R-rated, two-hour film...

Kingdom of Heaven 2?

This doesn't take place on LV-426, right?  I mean, I know what the last shot of the film is, but it seems strange if it's NOT LV-426

My expectations for this are lowering by the minute.

From what I've read this movie has the same problem that a lot of flicks do these days; it's not concerned with telling a self-contained story that could be continued if it's successful enough to warant a sequel. It's being designed specififically to be a franchise. This is why Lindelof was hired. Lost, like the X-Files, presented one mystery after another purely in order to keep people tuning in each week. The problem is that Lost, like the X-Files, was all smoke and mirrors and the central "mystery" was resolved in such a fucking feeble way that it feels like you were cheated for investing all that attention in the first place. But at least the X-files didn't completely revolve around one central concept the whole time and had some fantastic one-off episodes outside of the main mythology. That's why shows like X-Files and Buffy the Vampire Slayer work. This is why Lost doesn't have any replay value nor was the writing any good. But I can dip into X-Files or Buffy anytime.  

The other problem is the fact that Scott couldn't have just made a cool monster flick which is what the original Alien was. He was determined to tie Alien into the creation of mankind and all that other 2001 bullshit that we've seen a milion times. It could have worked but it was never going to be anything other than mediocre with Lindelof involved and his hiring is a clear indication that they weren't trying to make something truly special. Just the starter film in a new franchise which is what this was designed to be all along.

Creepy. Shhhh.

I don't think Neon Blue likes Damon Lindelof.

Why should I like Lindelof? He doesn't have a single credit that I can point to and say "Now THAT is some great fucking writing!" and he's ridden on the back of one of the most overrated shows of the last decade. I really wish Scott had made Hyperion instead.

The original script for this project, back when it was an Alien Prequel, has that ever been leaked?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham 

 

No, it's not...It's more reboot, than rehash...beautiful to look at, but left me empty...I need to watch it again.

Billy's post is spot-on...just got to add it only feels like half a film.

 

EVERYONE is gonna blame Lindeloff...I blame Ridley.

This is how I am feeling after going to a midnight showing of this.  There seems to be something missing from the film, a threat, something.  If I didnt already know who wrote it I would have guessed they had something to do with Lost as the film just seemed full of random scenes where stuff happens then gets ignored in the next scene.

The intermittent signs of life.  David seemingly figuring out what everything is and how it all works straight away, the squid, Fifield attacking the ship.  Vickers not running another direction from a falling ship, her surviving only to be killed 2 seconds later, the giant squid, the engineer.  The stupid-ass final alien to tie in with the franchise.

Oh and the score, the score kept reminding me of Star Trek for some reason.

Ok just got back from this...full spoilers below, but the big things will get tags ina  second post....

If you like gorgeous film with well realized worlds and strange, odd landscapes and set designs, you have to see this; plot wise, its a solid, barely above average story that gets elevated by good performances all around, fantastic visuals and a great sense of wonder and dread of the unknown; seeing it in digital 3D is a great experience, and the visual experience alone is worth the money.

When it comes to the acting, Fassbender is the film's MVP, hands down; his rendition of David is a perfect composite of Ash in "Alien" and Bishop in "Aliens"; he retains the same coldness and methodical nature of Ash, while having that odd, amicable personality and social interactions of Bishop, but Fassbender takes it beyond by injecting David with a sense of curiosity and wonder that gives away his inhumanity; he is truly marveled by what he encounters, and while he is bound to a secret directive, you cant help but feel that David becomes enthralled by the mystery and discovery of the "creators of his creators"; Fassbender truly shines in the role and makes the most of an uneven, mediocre script (Theron, Rapace and Elba are all solid and also handle the lackluster script with raw talent and personality, but Fassbender takes it miles further, simply by having the best part in the movie.

The real problem, I believe (if this is truly a final cut, which i hope it isnt), lies in Scott being comfortable with a script that stinks of Lindelof's "Lost syndrome"; just like in that series, the script is more fascinated with effect than cause, which makes the film just plod along with each revelation, never trying to explain or develop the actual ideas of a scientific expedition clashing with the unknown and a truth that challenges their beliefs and their knowledge; this is the biggest flaw of the film, in a sense that its connection to the "Alien" franchise is used as a crutch by the script to avoid spending time in exploration or discussion of the truly deep and complex scenarios and conflict it presents to the audience; just like "Lost", Lindelof is more interest in the character's reactions (both emotional and physical) to the amazing events they face rather than exploring and delving into the events themselves; therefore, the plot of the film is just a hollow structure that supports its narrative, instead of developing an intricate and complex look at such a powerful scenario as is Mankind encountering its true origins, being challenged by it and having to face "God"...as such, the film's plot feels hollow and disjointed, as if its more controversial and fascinating ideas were trimmed in order to make it more accesible and lighter for the common audience; while "Alien" was a B-movie narrative elevated by its characterization, world building and daring bravado to truly create a mixture of terror, paranoia and wonder at man meeting the unknown, "Prometheus" its a A-list superproduction that is stunning visually and conceptually, but that gets dragged to mediocrity by its b-movie commitment to lighten up its ideas in order to make its narrative more accessible and mainstream.

In conclusion, its neither a bad Ridley Scott movie or a great Ridley Scott movie; its simply solid, stunning and entertaining, and cant help to give a sense of the whole "Kingdom of Heaven" or even "Blade Runner" original releases scenario repeating themselves; if there's justice, there might be a 3 hour director's cut of this sometime in the future, but as it is, "Prometheus" is a solid genre film with daring ideas, but it unfortunately never dares to develop them to a full extent in exchange to conform to an audience safe zone; its not dumbed down, just barely explored; still, if you love visual spectacle and sci-fi in general you should give this one at least a chance, since "Prometheus" still manages to rise up from usual offerings of its genre, and remains a must watch on those terms alone...but unless it has an extended cut waiting to happen, you wont see this one becoming as influential or revered in time as "Alien" or "Blade Runner"

Ok,  key plot moments discussion time, spoiler tags inbound:

Again, it just feels like the Alien series and the connection the film has to them is truly a crutch; it helps the film plod along, but it ends up doing so in an uneven and tired form.

I LOVED the experience of seeing this on a digital IMAX3D screen that filled up the entire wall.  It's such a BIG film and I'm sad that it'll eventually have to be seen on a TV.  Definitely go see this in a theater.

Otherwise, I think ryoken's thoughts above are sound.  After coming out of the movie, it's hard to say what I really loved about it aside from the GORGEOUS visuals and the execution of specific sequences.  There was a sense of terrible awe and wonder for the first 2/3rds of the film.  And then it got significantly uninteresting when the Space Jockey dude turned out to be a douche.  My engagement waned significantly.

What comes to mind is the story of Listerine and the creation of 'morning breath.'  The story goes that it wasn't even a problem that people thought needed a solution to until marketing turned it into a 'thing.'  The ALIEN series has never been particularly close to my heart and I've never needed to know any answers to what was kept vague in the first film.  But like 'morning breath,' Prometheus establishes some questions about this universe that engage me and then completely drops the ball.  SEE YOU NEXT TIME, it says!  Dammit, LINDELOF!!!

But I still want to see this again.  Hahahhaha.

EDIT:  Special note about our screening.  A lady in the row behind me starting suffering spasms after some intense shit had gone down in the movie.  It freaked a bunch of the audience out.  I thought she was going into labor or something.  Luckily, she was ok.   People thought that she might've had a reaction to the 3D and the strobing lights from the film.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

The original script for this project, back when it was an Alien Prequel, has that ever been leaked?

Nope.  I do know that it involved terraforming though, which is something that Ridley talked up a lot in interviews before Lindelof came on board and they streamlined the concept.  I suspect terraforming might pop up in Prometheus 2 if one is made.

By the way, Ridley has already pretty much confirmed awhile back that there will be an extended cut on the home video release.

So at the ending..

God I really wanted to like the film, but was just completely disengaged by it. I was at a midnight showing, full of geeks, and you could feel the energy just drain out of the room. It's far closer, in my mind, to SUNSHINE than ALIEN in that it's core thesis which it handles in a really muddled way and it sort of doesn't really have much a story beyond exploring that thesis. I actually like SUNSHINE, largely because there's an element of spirituality in the film to latch onto and a cast of diverting character, I can't say the same for PROMETHEUS.

Aside from a few standout performances and some nicely creepy sequences I just didn't get the point of the film whatsoever, the story just feels completely like vapour, like we're watching the first act of something far greater. It doesn't help that the film feels cut to ribbons.

Fassbender and Rapace are easily the MVPs, it's just a shame they do such good work in a film which ultimately, to me, feels so hollow and ephemeral. 

Man you guys who get to see it early are bumming me out.

I can't say I'm surprised at the reaction though, Scott's post Alien resume is littered with dissapointment. 

This is the sort of feeling I felt back in 1999 when i had to wait a week to see Episode I.

"No, you are JOKING!!!!!!"

The reaction I'm seeing from this film seems to confirm what the big problem is with Hollywood filmmaking these says and I'm also seeing it with greats like Spielberg...visually it's never been better, but the scripts have declined in quality, with wafer thin on talent, body and fender men like Lindeloff, Orci and Kurtzman, Ehren Kruger, David Koepp, etc....and I can't even say they're bad writers as much as they're forced to compromise by paranoid studios.  Nobody is allowed to take chances anymore.  If you do, the budget has to be extremely low and you get stuff like District 9...but those are extremely rare.  But as a writer you are subject to the demands of the studio, and your work ends up gutted into a Frankenstein monster creation from studio meddling, egotistical actors wanting changes, and paranoid directors who want their "stamp" on the thing.  The stakes are so fucking high with the ridiculous budgets, that there is such a huge cap on creativity in the film business and it's utterly depressing to wtiness.

Prometheus is definitely let down by its script more than anything else... the plot and the way it delivers exposition is straightforward to the point of being simplistic. This isn't necessarily a bad thing but here it ends up feeling clunky, almost like the little plotlines you used to dream up as you went along when you were a kid playing with your Star Wars toys or Legos. I'd agree with Devin and others that it's a Lindelof problem but at times here it feels like the anti-Lost, in the way it's rushing to set up its plot points and character beats and reveal the cards up its sleeve. The build-up to the film may have been shrouded in mystery but the film itself most definitely isn't. I suppose I have to applaud the script's economy in a way but for a skeleton that's supposed to support such lofty ideas, it feels a little too sparse, and it's the reason the film ultimately doesn't satisfy. 

A real shame because all the other elements are in place, in my opinion. The central conceit may not get the pay-off it deserves but it's intriguing enough to keep you interested even as the underwhelming plot unfolds. The film looks amazing, it's well made, well acted and well shot. It has some decent moments of body horror, most notably the Med Pod scene, which go a long way in tieing this in with the Alien films, tone-wise. The Alien connection never felt forced to me anyway - the saga of the Space Jockey is one worth telling. Even if he does end up being a bit of a dick.

If they omitted the cuddles creature, and everything "squid", and made it more a protoform Alien, would it have:

Worked the same

Worked better

Worked worse

Basically, is this Neville Page creature enough of a character of it's own, that it makes you forget the Alien in the film?

For the amount of time the creatures are on screen it would have made no difference at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

If they omitted the cuddles creature, and everything "squid", and made it more a protoform Alien, would it have:

 

Worked the same

Worked better

Worked worse

 

Basically, is this Neville Page creature enough of a character of it's own, that it makes you forget the Alien in the film?

It's definitely it's own beast, it's only after the credits were rolling that I realised that it was, design wise, a proto-Face Hugger. But it's not really featured in the film enough to leave enough of an impression. It's in all of two scenes, both which work really well but are both kind of super-quick and about something else.

The critter itself looks way more like something out of Jackson's KING KONG than anything from the previous films.

ETA:
 

Did I miss something or was their no rationalisation given for why the Space Jockie's in this film are about half, maybe even a third, the size of the one in ALIEN?

There was nothing that I remember about the Space Jockys size being mentioned.  Though the space suit that it got into did seem to make it look larger, I don't know if it was enough to be of size to the ALIEN specimen 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall 

Did I miss something or was their no rationalisation given for why the Space Jockie's in this film are about half, maybe even a third, the size of the one in ALIEN?

Yeah, that was a retcon I complained about way back when the first glimpses of the new jockeys were released.

It's allegedly 27 feet tall in the original.

Yeah, seriously. Even with armour on, the ones shown in this film are about 12 foot tall, at most. In actuality, without wishing to spoil too much, the actual design of them is one of the most disappointing things in the film. Just really, really, boring and pedestrian looking.

I do get the feeling that the director's cut might make this better. I'd still have issues with the structure and the complete lack of story, but spending a little more time with the crew and letting everything breath would probably make what does work, work much better.

Space Jockey vs Space Tapir.

so this guy was the Tyrion of Space Jockey's, right? 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

so this guy was the Tyrion of Space Jockey's, right? 

Once again, not to get to spoilery. But PROMETHEUS makes the Space Jockey from ALIEN look like the exception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall 

 

Once again, not to get to spoilery. But PROMETHEUS makes the Space Jockey from ALIEN look like the exception.

Well, perhaps these were male Space Jokeys, and the one in Alien was female...and was what gave birth to the Alien Queen in Aliens, thus explaning the size difference between drones and the Queen.

Yes, i realize this seems way too far fetched.

This movie.  Sounds.  Terrible.  

Such a disappointment.  But I knew something was wrong when I found out they were at it again with another android character.  Seriously, that's been done to death in this series.  

Yes, I went ahead and spoiled myself.  I just had a bad feeling about the movie and thought, let me see what's up and if it would be worth my time to see it.  

Uhh...

I just can't believe how undercooked the thing sounds.  

I predict bad word of mouth and NO SEQUEL.  Stop expecting one.  Maybe Prometheus will have a "strong" opening weekend, but that's it.  

Ridley, I know you didn't mess up as badly as George Lucas, but that's not saying much.  :(  Maybe this will make you think twice about Blade Running again?