Snow White and the Huntsman Post-Release

Two questions:

 

1)  I see you didn't mention the dwarves.  Are they any good?

 

2)  Is the Alice in Wonderland-esque "Princess in Armor With a DESTINY", market-driven and oddly cynical feminist angle as misguided as it seems from the trailers?  

How is the feminist angle misguided?

 

I thought Snow White in the second half, as someone who needed to take charge of her people and lead them into battle, was pretty cool. It's too bad about that first half, where she has to be a damsel, and men have to fight over her, and she has zero personality. But then she makes some big, admittedly generic rousing speech, and everyone is on her side, and she's in armor, and everyone's like, what do we do now Snow White? And, I dunno, if I had a daughter, I would want her to see a character like that, who isn't crying, who isn't uncertain, who isn't afraid any longer, and who earns the respect of an army of burly-ass men.

 

Also, regarding the ending

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

I didn't think it was a very good movie, but I didn't see any cynicism in the "feminist" angle, in that it wasn't really feminist, just a pretty tough lead female character who doesn't have to be eye candy or dress skimpy and do female-centric kung fu or some shit.

 

Not something I'd rewatch again. I agree with the C, C- designation. Points, however, for the year's most hilariously superfluous, stupid, self-sabotaging character in Charlize's evil quasi-albino brother, all dressed like a fancy lad and making bold proclamations. Hm, maybe you shouldn't have told Snow White your sister wants to tear her heart out? Maybe you shouldn't have told the Huntsman you can't resurrect his wife? Maybe these are things that were better left unsaid?

 

There just, in my opinion, seems to be something very forced about it and, at this point, a bit of an easy way out for filmmakers.  She's either a damsel or a badass warrior princess...one extreme for the other.  There seems to be very little actual nuance or understanding to it.  I mean, sure, I'd prefer one extreme to the other, but I think it's still a very clinical, market-driven way to emphasize that the character is female and hey, she's badass too.  We put armor on her and she's leading the troops!  Isn't that terrific?  Even worse when the DESTINY angle comes into play and muddles that aspect of a character, imo.  Like I said, easy...I guess it's too much to expect, or even think that the film is attempting, to make a bold statement or feminist case, but it's kind of cynical when we're dealing with two extremes and little else between, or any other suggestion that you don't have to either be useless or in armor, as if that scale is so simple.

Goddammit, this should have been so much better. 

 

 

Gorgeous to look at but utterly devoid of heart and soul, this is my first big disappointment of the year.  It wasn't terrible, but "it's ok" isn't enough when I see a trailer that good.  I'm pleasantly surprised that Kristen Stewart isn't the worst thing about this film.  She's solid, but her character is a blank space.  Who is she, aside from very pretty?  How does she feel about her father being murdered?  How does she feel about ANYTHING?  I have no goddamn idea, because the film doesn't allow her the chance to be anything but a placeholder.  I needed to see some spunk, some fire, SOMETHING, and I got nothing.  I also laughed at how Snow White has some nice armor and a sword but no real fight scene to use it in.  She pushes one guy with her shield and rolls around a bit with Ravenna, but that's it.  Were they scared to give her fight choreography?  Damn shame.  

 

Hemsworth is good, but the film robs him of a chance to show off his acting skills by removing his motivation WAY TOO EARLY.  WHY the fuck did Ravenna's bro tell him that the wife wasn't coming back?  Did he expect the Huntsman to just say "Aww shucks" and hand Snow over?  THE FUCK?!  Why not allow him to continue to think that it was possible?  This gives him a great conflict: move on with Snow White or take the chance that his wife can come back.   This would have given that relationship a little something, so that when we get to that scene in the church where he's crying over her body (his best scene), it MEANS something.  As it stands, it meant nothing because that relationship really means nothing.  That awkward-as-fuck ending with the two of them looking at each other was just awful.  She clearly heard every word he said to her when he confessed his feelings, so why not address it?  Why does she just...ugh, what the fuck.  That "we'll obviously leave this hanging to get settled in the sequel" bullshit actively irked me.

 

Why the fuck is Prince William even in this movie?  He serves NO purpose but to be the Jacob of this non-existent love triangle.  The moment where she gives him the friend-zone hand squeeze nearly made me laugh aloud in the theater.   And why no tension whatsoever between the Huntsman and William?  If they are both into her, why isn't there some jockeying for position once William joins their group?  Even without the love triangle, you'd expect there to be some jockeying for the alpha male position.  There's not even a scene where the Huntsman and William even speak to each other, save for that slo-mo "William!" as Snow White charges into the castle.  I mean, what the fuck.  Missed opportunity after missed opportunity in this motherfucking movie.

 

The dwarves were completely wasted, though my audience let out a big cheer when they first appeared onscreen.  

 

The horse that Snow White rides into the Dark Forest gets stuck, and then we never see it again.  I was waiting on the payoff for that.  I figured the horse would appear at the end,  I was trying to figure out if her steed in the finale was the same horse.  They're both white, but it's never addressed.

 

Someone explain the significance of that white stag.  I fucking dare you.  "He's blessing her!"  How?  Why?  What? 

 

It's too fucking long.

Edited by HarleyQuinn22 - 6/1/12 at 5:49pm

Yeah, the 127mins running length was a surprise to me.

Also, Ravenna's brother randomly claiming responsibility for the Huntsman's wife's death was one of the biggest WTF moments I've ever had in a theater.  I mean, seriously.  What the fuck.  How would he know that he even killed the Huntsman's wife?  Did he know the Huntsman before this mission?  Why did he kill her, then?  Huh?

Wait ... they setup a possible sequel??? hahahahaha!

 

I really don't understand how some of you honestly had any hopes of this being any good. Even the good looking trailers hinted at all this nonsense.

 

I think that's what they were trying to do.  They left her romantic entanglements unresolved for no reason other than, "We'll see you next time to see who she picks!", though judging by the fact that both guys kiss her and only The Huntsman's kiss breaks the spell, I guess the choice is made.  It was poorly handled, no matter what they were trying to do. 

 

I have faith, Cap.  Sometimes my faith is rewarded.  Sometimes it is shat upon.  Oh well.  Bring on Batman.

 

This. A million times this.

 

Ravena's brother was the WORST. Just a shitty character, who does shitty things for no good reason. He only exists to get in the way of everyone else.

 

speaking of extraneous characters, here's a random question: When William joined up with the search party (which was dumb too, but I digress), did he catch the old archers bow and shoot it back at him, or did he just duck and shoot?  Between this and Pirates 4, Sam Claflin is making a good go at being a bland third wheel in substandard event films.

This. Felt. So. Long.

 

It's like the whole thing comes to a halt for a good solid hour right in the middle. I was honestly sitting there in confusion over how something could be this sloppily and pointlessly plotted. It's not that Stewart is bad, necessarily? But she just seems so miscast in this role. For a female character who has so few lines and whose character arc seems to mostly consist of wandering around CGI creatures and looking "enchanted", they really needed to go with an actress who has some kind of inner spark or sweetness. Stewart has such a contemporary, emo vibe that she just felt all wrong for this.

 

I couldn't help thinking of Sucker Punch during this. From the way both films were set up with the opening prologues, the over the top visuals, the muddled girl power messages. This isn't as big of a mess as that, but I suffered the same general blah sameness from the 20 minute mark on.

 

He caught it, added his own arrow, and shot.  I could see two arrows loaded on the bow before he fired. 

 

ETA: Just thought of yet another missed opportunity: That bridge troll that Snow White...tames?  subdues?  Briefly befriends?  A movie with a better sense of build and payoff would have had that troll show up in the finale to fuck shit up on her behalf.  They make a big deal of showing that the thing at least respects her enough not to kill her.  I bet the poor sap who shells out money for the DVD will hear the director/producer state on the commentary that the troll was meant to show up in the finale, but budgetary concerns prevented it.

Edited by HarleyQuinn22 - 6/1/12 at 9:28pm

Now there's 2 hours of my life i want back.

This is one of those frustrating films where you can sense goodness and perhaps even greatness just out of reach, if only some different decisions had been made.  Like not casting the charisma vacuum that is Kristen Stewart as your lead.  She has zero chemistry with either male lead, and her lack of presence only makes the glaring lack of any kind of growth for her all the more apparent.  Someone with more ... well, "it" might have been able to gloss over the fact that Snow does nothing for a good chunk of the film, dies, then is all of a sudden William Freakin' Wallace.

 

It's a shame too, because when the dwarves show up and we go to the fairy sanctuary, there's some genuine magic going on.  The film comes to life, and it finally feels like we've gotten to the story the filmmakers wanted to tell.

 

I'd give this a marginal recommendation based on the imagery and the amount of imagination on display, but temper your expectations.

It's fucking awful.

(chuckles derisively)

"You people are so WHITEY... and HUNTSY."

 

 

 

If they'd made this movie years ago, Keira Knightley would've made mincemeat of the Snow White role.

Edited by HarleyQuinn22 - 6/2/12 at 1:32pm

Though even Knightley, with all her moxie, couldn't sell that PIRACY = FREEDOM speech.

I don't think anybody could have nailed that speech or the role as written.

 

Because the idea of making Snow White a big epic fantasy heroine is just the worst idea on how to handle this character.

Considering all the shit Stewart got when she was cast and how blatantly they're hiding her from the marketing...she's actually OK here. And points to Theron for playing a better Cobra Commander than Joseph Gordon Levitt.

 

They actually had a chance to do something truly unique with the character.  They laid the tracks, but couldn't get the train out of the station.  Both Snow White and Ravenna have had pretty fucked up childhoods.  They had a chance to show how the decisions these women make have made them who they are, not just some "destiny" bullshit.  Snow White's decision to use her power for the good of others should have been what makes her the fairest of them all, not just "she's pretty!".  Ravenna's decision to be selfish is what makes her evil.  I wouldn't have minded seeing a bit of a bitter edge to Snow White.  After all, seeing your father with a knife in his chest and having your stepmother steal your birthright would piss off even the sweetest person.  Add on top of that the sight of her childhood friend riding away and never even making a rescue attempt again and you've got the ingredients for one bitter chick.  But as she makes friends along the way, falls for The Huntsman, and realizes that she has the power to take down the Queen, she becomes the fairest of them all by not allowing her past to hold her down.  She rises above it and defeats the evil, rather than succumbing to it like Ravenna did.  That should have been what made her heart so valuable.  She has every right to give up, but she doesn't.

I'll take the Snow White in ONCE UPON A TIME over this one anyday.

Did anyone else think that the final 'you can't have my heart' line between should've been something else? It was played like it was meant to be a big emotional payoff for their relationship, but it didn't work. Between the conversation with Wilvenna where she said she felt pity for her and that, I wanted the line to be 'you had my heart when you married my father' or something to really drive home that the ultimate flaw of Ravenna's beauty was that she always destroyed or discarded the people who actually loved her.

 

'You can't have my heart' was just a 'well, no shit' line.

I figured it would at least lead to a scene with her and the huntsman, but all we get is a look across a crowded throne room.

 

And someone really should have looked at this script and asked, "Why isn't the hunstman her childhood friend?"  You could either play it as the two not recognizing each other, or they do and she resents him for leaving, and he resents her for not letting him know she was alive.  Not only does it make sense considering where the story eventually goes, it would remove the silliness of William joining up with the bad guys and the question of why he doesn't simply put an arrow in every single person in the raiding party the second they start attacking the women's village.  And it would actually give Snow something to do other than stare in wonder at trees and stuff.

 

While we're script doctoring, the dwarves should have shown up to get them out of the Dark Forest.  That would have given them more scream time to make the death that happens later really mean something.

Yep. Pretty much agree with what's been said. Theron's great. Hemsworth is great. Dwarves are great. And there's some truly spectacular direction, visuals, creature design, sound design in here (I'll eat my shoes if there's an effects moment as disturbingly cool as Ravenna trying to crawl herself back up from a black pit of liquified crow). But it's hollow to the core, there's opportunities out the ass to give this thing the depth is needs to make the "big" moments sing, and few are taken. The film introduces the queen as a force of cold, misandric, contempt, yet victim to needing to maintain what men would want from her to begin with. Snow White begins as an innately gentle, life-bringing, force of love and forgiveness. These are things that should have come to a truly meaningful climax at the end. They dont. And that's sad.

 

Also, I dont know how anyone can comment on Stewart at all. She's a blank slate here. She's not bad. She's not good. She's just there. And she's surrounded by people doing ace, subtle work, which makes it all the more offensively bland. The village with the scarred women, these are nameless characters with maybe 2 lines each who run rings around that girl without breaking a sweat.

 

Also, somebody better have cut Hayao Miyazaki a fat ass check. because, seriously.....

 

Charlize definitely steals the show here.

 

"IS THERE NO LOYALTY IN THIS WORLD?"

I haven't seen this movie, probably wont unless it's on free tv or Netflix instant, but I just wanted to say the whole idea that they wanted to turn this into a Twilight like franchise is horribly offensive to me, not only does the original story have little depth but it feels like a total bastardization making it into a crappy love triangle plot ala Twilight. Which I guess is why they have Stewart in this.

Hope the BO returns are bad and sorry that all the great talent is so wasted. Also pretty funny that they had a ripoff of the nature god in Mononoke. Just shows this zero originality in this at all.

 

To the films credit, this is completely not the case.

The cast seemed fine and the movie looks nice, but the script is so, soooo dull. It's nothing but Stewart slogging her way towards some guy who was loyal to her father and snooze-inducing dialogue like "I owe you my life" and "she is THE ONE".

I agree with everyone here on the story weaknesses (esp. that white horse.  He got screwed!), but overall, I enjoyed a smidge more than I thought.  Stewart was...fine.  At least she wasn't playing Bella: Warrior Princess like I feared.  Her rallying speech was laughably weak, but otherwise, she was...fine.  

 

Some gorgeous cinematography and sfx on display here.  

Well that makes it sound a tiny bit better that they didn't do that like Red Riding Hood but it has way too many warning signs to me and the idea that they were thinking of making sequels to Snow White is beyond awful and overly arrogant and pompous.

 

 

There's a scene in here, cannot remember it for the life of me, but I swear she's got a line that is so close to the Gladiator "AM I NOT MERCIFUL?!" line that it couldn't be coincidence.  Maybe it's just her delivery that's giving me phantom Joaquin Phoenix flashbacks. 

 

ETA: Wasn't imagining it.  It's the milk bath scene.

Edited by HarleyQuinn22 - 6/3/12 at 2:32pm

Almost would rather have seen Piranha 3DD this weekend. But it got me out of the house for a couple hours.

 

Any special reason they hired eight normal-sized guys and digitally shrunk 'em down instead of giving the work to some actual dwarves? Even Mirror Mirror threw the roles to dwarf actors. I just kept thinking, y'know, not every short actor hits the jackpot like Peter Dinklage. Most of 'em are reduced to sight gags. But no, let's digitally shorten Nick Frost. I swear there's a term similar to "blackface" for regular-sized actors Dorfing it up as dwarves — I think Dinklage himself mentioned it when discussing Gary Oldman in Tiptoes — but it's eluding me at the moment.

This reminded me way too much of Ridley Scott's Robin Hood. A great, sweeping, romantic tale transformed into a full-on dour slog. As far as character and story go, nothing sticks here.At all. Scenes unfold with zero energy as we wait patiently for the climactic Speech and medieval warfare (swarms of arrows, catapults, sword fightszzzzzz....) and the main baddie to bite it in a way that pays off foreshadowing from 2 hours prior. I don't even blame the actors, as no one is allowed to play a character with any pep or vigor. Theron comes closest, while most of her male costars grunt their boring lines in indecipherable broges. Stewart is too mild a presence to handle such an iconic role.

The effects are really great, though. Hoo-boy!

 

"Shortface"? "Littleface"?

Was anyone bitching about Elijah Wood being shrunken down to Hobbit-size, rather than hiring a small actor?  I'm not saying that the argument is invalid, but it does seem to pop up only for certain films, while others who deploy this tactic are given a pass.

I knew this wasn't going to be great, but i was really hoping to enjoy this more than I did. The eye candy was nice but there wasn't enough of it to make up for the poorly told story. Theron had the making of a great villian but she needed to dial her performance back a notch. Stewart did OK but really had nothing to work with. Hemsworth was fine as he was basically Thor with a Scottish accent. The romance went nowhere. Pretty much nothing went anywhere. I liked that the charge of the castle was on a beach but once the battle was joined I totally checked out. The dwarves were OK except for Hoskin's annoying gushing. Nothing in this held together. It has "video director's first feature film" written all over it in big bold letters. The best I can say for it is that with a good script the guy's next film could have promise.

Oh, and anecdotal; the theater was packed with (annoying people) for this on a Tuesday night show. it is LA and we like our movies, but it was suprising.

Dwarves threaten a march to protest the lack of real dwarves in the movie!

 

"We're here!  No, down here!  Get used to it!"

 

The worst thing is they got all these high-powered actors for the dwarves and they're all pretty much wasted. I could live and let live if you could show me that only Ian McShane could've played that role, or Bob Hoskins. But the way they're used, they might as well have cast eight actual dwarves without much acting experience. John Rhys-Davies as Gimli doesn't irk as much because he owned that role.

 

I've sometimes wondered what Peter Dinklage would say if a director came to him and said "We want you for this role, we want what you can bring to it, and we'd like to digitally make you taller." Would he be insulted or would he go for the rare (live-action) role that isn't in some way about his height? (He has done roles like that, many more than most in his situation; like I said, he hit the jackpot by right of talent. Thing is, there could be a short actor out there who makes Dinklage look like Taylor Lautner, and we wouldn't know because he gets stuck in stupid comedies or, worse, never hired in the first place because the producers decided to shorten Bob Hoskins.)

TOLDJA says Universal is going forward with a sequel. Let's see how good, or most likely bad, the hold is this weekend. Then we'll see if this is really real talk.

 

I would totally pay to see that.