The Newsroom - Sorkin! - Page 4

 

Absolutely agreed.  I am a pretty big advocate for Sorkin.  I was even a fan of Studio 60.  However, this episode really made it clear.  This is absolutely a way for him to, retroactively, spew on for an hour on his soapbox.  It's a tricky and dishonest way to jab at issues from the past.

 

I find the performances for Jim and Will magnetic. And the bits between the romance and actual newscast are my favorite parts.  The rest blows and my HBO subscription hangs perilously by a thread.  One more week.

Munn is my second favorite female character on this show. I'm hoping she steps up in a big way to become a central cast member.

Munn handles the comedy well, but what has she done in three episodes other than witty remarks and playing hookup doctor for Will? What's her character's involvement in this news hour; what hurdles does she have to leap to match Will's quality? Does Will think her segments are a waste, does he think she's wrong about something, does he offer her any feedback at all about her job? Do we ever see her DOING her job? She gets five minutes of the best news program ever every night to talk about whatever she wants, and we've seen her doing exactly none of that.

 

Me too, brother. Me too.

I don't think she needs to be front and center right away. She can creep in from the sides, slowly, and surprise everyone Donna style. Donna originally was a minor comic relief character, before eventually becoming a major player. I like the the Newsroom world is wide enough to have bit players too. 

 

We did see her doing her job last week, by the way, helping Will forsee the debt ceiling crisis. 

As always, Waterston and Daniels are the best thing in the episode (Waterston is the MVP of this series, no doubt about it), with an honorable mention to Munn.  I also didn't mind seeing Maggie's roommate in her, ahem, intimate apparel. 

 

The rest of the show is a waste.  Why are all the women incompetent, shrill, and hanging on every word that Will McAvoy, The Great Man, has to say? 

 

I actually thought that the plot point of Leona trying to take Will down through her tabloids was an incredibly interesting development and a prescient commentary on media consolidation.  Yes, this is what Rupert Murdoch does.  Can we have more of that?  I found Will's dates charmingly comical as well.  Even Maggie's boyfriend's phone call was clever!  But then why do we have to spell out what is going on after it happens?  I think that's what grates me the most about this show.

 

It's like Sorkin hasn't seen television since 1997.  We can handle nuance.  We can handle subtext.  We can handle quiet moments that make larger, unstated points.

 

The closing montage on the Giffords shooting was ridiculous.  Atlantis was, really, the only major news network not to report Giffords was dead?  Give me a fucking break.  These people may be at the top of their game, but they're neither infallible nor super human.  Couldn't Will just have said something to the effect of: "MSNBC, Fox, CNN, and NPR are reporting that Congresswoman Giffords has passed away, but we have yet to receive independent verification of that fact.  Reports all stem from NPR's story."

I want to like it, believe me.  The premise is perfect.  The setting seems to get it right.  But I'm having major problems with Sorkin's writing.  You can't introduce characters with a reputation for one thing and then have them do something else entirely (Mac as a hard-hitting Afghanistan correspondent acting like the most frivolous and easily intimidated schoolgirl in the newsroom; Will calling himself a Republican but not having any interest in the kinds of subjects Republicans are interested in--I mean, couldn't he have started out wanting to investigate how much Obama was spending on his trip to India only to find out that the controversy had no basis in fact?  Did he have to start out wanting to investigate the lie?).  You also can't introduce us to characters and then, before we've had a chance to get to know them or care about them at all throw them into idiotic and embarrassing love triangles that make no sense beyond the writer dictating that they were in a love triangle.  You also can't make all of your women characters idiots, harpies, bitches, shrews, nervous wrecks, incompetent ninnies, and corporate sellouts.  This might be news to Sorkin but women are just as complicated, if not more, than men, and just as capable of integrity, authority and level-headedness as men, if not more.  Someone pointed out that Sorkin gives the "Doctors declare a person dead" line rather than Mac, who should be the one the buck stops with.  But he couldn't even give her that. 
 

 

I wholeheartedly agree.  I want to fucking love this show so much.

 

The Obama thing didn't bug me as much, as $200 million/day is a ludicrous figure to begin with and McAvoy has no love for the idiots in the GOP who peddle this tripe.  In fact, he's POV is that those people debase the Republican party and all that it stands for.  Fair enough.  He's an old school, Teddy Roosevelt (I'd say Goldwater, but Goldwater was kind of a nut too.  He just seems reasonable by comparison) Republican.  I can dig.

 

But I refuse to believe that Mac spent a single second in a war zone.  You mean to tell me that a person who got fucking STABBED covering a Shi'ite revolt in Iraq loses her shit to such a degree that she can't help but yell at the top of her lungs in the middle of a professional environment because her ex is dating some chicks?  Give.  Me.  A.  Break.

Again, Waterstone's character said to Will on the first episode that she's burned out. Just the fact that she reported from a warzone doesn't mean she's suddenly William Munny standing still and calm as bullets whiz by her. She is a bit too ditzy for my tastes but it's not coming from nowhere. 

Munn has gotten by on the show because compared to the other two female leads she's not fucking relationship crazy. I half expect Mac or Pine to be listening to Fergie's Clumsy song as a way to further define their characters via montage at some point.

I'm especially disappointed that they've been wasting Slumdog for the past few eps. Seriously, fucking Bigfoot? Has Sorkin always painted his youthier characters as high functioning children? Next ep maybe that dusty brown haired girl will be given 5 minutes of screen time mourning the death of her Tamagotchi pet, skittles.

Show would be better if there were more inter-office politics/scheming and less theatrical relationship meltdowns. I just totally Sorkinized what you've been discussing the past half-pages, woot!

 

This is a good piece that articulates some of what makes my skin craw in TN. 

FYI- Interview with Sorkin on NPR/Fresh Air

 

 

 

Aaron Sorkin: The Writer Behind 'The Newsroom'

 

NPR - July 16, 2012

Aaron Sorkin's new HBO drama The Newsroom follows the inner workings of a fictional cable network trying to challenge America's hyperpartisan 24/7 news culture. It's a typical Sorkin drama, complete with fast-paced dialogue, witty scenes and a strong ensemble cast....

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/16/156841165/aaron-sorkin-the-writer-behind-the-newsroom?sc=17&f=13

 

I get that.  But she's a complete twit with the emotional intelligence of a 5 year old.  Screaming matches with your ex-boyfriend/boss about his dating life in the middle of the newsroom?  Completely falling apart when one of his dates walks in?

 

Also, calling people like Rush, Beck, Bachman, et al. "sex offenders"?

 

Exactly the OPPOSITE of trying to "civilize" the discourse, vile as each of those individuals may be.  Good thing progress is slow and he's in it for the long haul.

Edited by Spook - 7/17/12 at 3:01pm

Well, Rush allegedly is a sex offender, isn't he?  Didn't he supposedly fly down to some place in Latin America to sleep with underage girls and score drugs or something?

 

(Yes, I like believing wild rumors, but would you put it past him?)

All male party trip to Thailand, he got caught with hundreds of viagras under someone else's name.

And since the first episode almost a year has passed-or 9 months.  It's been a while.  I can see her ditzy behavior the first week, but not now.  Waterson said she was the best in the business.  Unless something tramatic happened to her in Afghanistan like the Lara Logan sexual assult it's just bad writing.

 

And this 100% stamp.

 

WTF happened to Sorkin writing women post West Wing?  Bad in Studio 60, bad here.  He's gotta be a bore at parties. 

 

At this point, unless someone convinces me otherwise, I'm apt to believe that CJ and Mrs. Bartlett were the work of writers other than Sorkin on The West Wing. 

Me too. After watching things like Breaking Bad, The Shield, and the Wire, it feels refreshing to have a highly optimistic show that wears its heart on its sleeve.

Except her calling out the Tea Party electee on election night.

The Writingroom  -- Fired!

 

 

 

 

I can't help but wonder whether Kinsbury is omnicompetent yet socially daffy, or if Sorkin just sees her that way. I also wonder, going by the scripts he finalizes, why she hasn't kicked him in the balls and quit.

Edited by Trav McGee - 7/20/12 at 11:38am

From what I understand, none of them do any writing. They're there to sit with Sorkin and spitball ideas. If anything, this is a great sign for the show. The next bunch could have a better perspective on how to handle the romcom stuff in a way that feels more naturalistic.

 

What he needs are people who aren't afraid to cut his chrysanthemums way back so they can thrive instead of choking on their own cloying fragrance, to belabor a metaphor.

I am liking the show, but I won't argue that that would only help. I don't want his politics or self righteousness to get dialed back, but the human level stuff needs work. He needs people who will help push him to integrate the two sides of the show more gracefully than they are now.

What happened is his show got renewed for a second season and the reviews were terrible so he had to do something to instill faith that it would get better.

I hope it leads to another episode about how stupid the writing staff on the show is for not trusting Will McAvoy or whatever. That was my favorite episode of Studio 60.

 

And then News Night can open with Daniels and Munn doing a Gilbert and Sullivan exchange, which everyone applauds as yet another genius creative decision and in no way snotty nor culturally irrelevant.

wow, just wow. I don't know if I have ever seen something so hamfisted, ridiculous and stupid as the episode that just aired tonight. Really?????, we are going to put casts and bruises on all our reporters fighting the good fight. Then we are going to wrap it up with a brutal mash up of Rudy and It's a wonderful life?  It's one thing if you want to spout your political views and attempt to influence public opinion to what you believe is the morally correct political view. But this felt unreal to the point of parody. I felt like I was watching a SNL skit making fun of a Sorkin show, rather than an actual episode. From the economics for dummies lesson to the various people bouncing off of doors because they care sooooo much. I cant remember seeing anything this obvious and pathetic.

 

Which is a damn shame, because I like the cast. I enjoy watching them on screen. Now I cant imagine how they are going to make things even more ridiculous next week.....oh wait, they can have Coldplay in the background when the town lines up to pay off George Bailey's debt.

The other anchor looks too much like Trey Parker it's hard to take him seiously.  And when they gave him the Hansen Brothers that was really bad.

 

It's also hard to believe Olivia Mumm's character is so bad with men.  She would have been hit on constantly and known how to spot the good from bad.  Her level of incompetence in this area is just not realistic. 

 

 

I stuck with Studio 60 half the year and that was about 13 episodes so I'll guess I'll finish this. 

It might be easier to believe if we could see Mumm's character with a man other than her saying "oh I'm bad at this".  Very honestly I could see the character with a poor relationship record (too many men scared once they realize she is smarter than they are type of deal).

 

I think the big problem is that judging by these episodes, we are suppose to be seeing this as a slapstick comedy show with some dramatic moments and not as a dramatic newsroom show that we were pitched by HBO ad (how else can one explain the first 10 minutes of this episdoe).  Once you can think of the show like that its not as horrible as your most of the commenters believe.  Its just stale, predictable, ham fisted, and about 20 years too late in its comedic leanings.

Allison Pill's character needs to be sent to Libya to cover the uprisings there, and hopefully land a job with some other news agency to never come back.

 

I thought this episode was fine, albeit a bit hackneyed.  But it's infuriating that this level of talent produces a show that's merely "fine."  The slapstick was a bit reminiscent of Sports Night, but it just feels so flat and out of place here.  And why does everyone feel comfortable walking into a place of work and shouting their relationship problems at the top of their lungs?  That stuff just takes me right out of the show.  Maybe I just haven't dated enough crazy women.

 

Oh, and who the fuck sends $250k to some random, shady Middle Eastern charity?  I hope there's a future plot point about Will ending on the no-fly list.

Edited by Spook - 7/23/12 at 9:58am

Best ep yet. This show is on a great trajectory. For once, everything gelled. Will's speech in the bar was total fist pumping classic Sorkin. My one complaint remains Alison Pill. She needs to go the way of Mandy Hampton, the sooner the better.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.  Everything about this show is so unbelievably portrayed it almost comes off like a parody.

 

I actually thought Will's speech to the gossip columnist was awesome, but that was completely and utterly wiped out of my memory by the absolutely FUCKING RIDICULOUS RUDY riff at the end of the episode

 

AND I FUCKING LOVE RUDY.

 

Someone needs to tell Sorkin to fucking reign it in.

 

Its a good thing this is on HBO.  The networks would have pulled the plug on this train wreck by now.  

I guess I'm surprised at the animosity this show is collecting. Yeah, it's really hamfisted and silly, but it's also artfully written and strongly acted and always entertaining, smug or not. I like it more than most of my other summer tv options, and I'm certainly going to keep watching.

I would suggest that if you actually hate it so far, now might be the time to jump off. They've established their MO, and I don't see them changing anytime soon. Going forward, it's on you.

No way.  I have to see who's mom works at the CIA that tips them on Bin Laden.

IT'S HIS UNDERGROUND BACON SMUGGLER!

Much better episode this week, I could watch Olivia Munn speak japanese for an hour and still be left wanting more. Glad to see the characters all being held accountable this time around. Krumholtz was surprisingly good, I was dubious when he came out, but really enjoyed the session. Glad to see Will being called on his manipulation with the ring...though long term it will just be explained that he still loves her and wants her back.....but manipulation is a shaky ground to build upon.

 

on the subliminal side....anyone else notice how often Broadcast News is playing on cable these days? And how physically similar Daniels is to Hurt and Mortimer to Hunter?

In the same episode, Sorkin yet again rips the internet and paints everyone who comments on it as ruthless, brutal, idiotic thugs and then expects us to swallow the fact that a 20 something woman doesn't know what LOL means. Give me a fucking break. 

To be fair, the internet IS pretty much full of ruthless, brutal, idiotic thugs. And this one in particular was posting where Will lives, which warranted special attention. And just within our community of movie fans, weren't just tsk tsking Batman fans for just this exact scenario not but three weeks ago?

 

And Maggie not knowing "LOL" was addressed in the show as being pretty freakin' weird. It's a goofy joke, but hardly a brain melter.

 

Sloan turned out to be awesome once she got something to, y'know, do. It really feels like the front half of this season was Sorkin writing out the character sheets on this cast and then using those as episodes, and all the writer's room spitballing that goes with that. 

 

If this were the only time Sorkin used one of his TV shows to blast the internet, I'd be fine with it, but he does it all the time and doesn't usually reserve his hatred for stupid commentators, but bloggers and anyone writing online that doesn't do so for a respected publication.

 

The LOL thing is too unbelievable for me, sorry. Yeah, it's pretty freakin' weird. So is a journalist confusing the two Georgia's. Maggie is getting more idiotic every episode. Yet again, all the women keep making huge fuck-ups so the men can stand around and yell at them. This week was Sloan's turn.

 

EDIT:

From the AV Club Review. Glad I'm not the only one...

"...Sidenote: Sorkin’s war on the Internet is perhaps the most “kids get off my lawn” element of this “kids get off my lawn” show, and another opportunity for us to argue with Will, his on-screen surrogate. From his infamous ‘Internet girl’ interview to having Will treat the very notion of comment boards and blogs as the lowest form of human discourse, Sorkin has a contempt for the modern that’s reductive and irksome. To have Will’s life threatened by the Internet in this episode is an obnoxious manifestation of that contempt..."

Edited by Parker - 7/30/12 at 7:04am

I dunno, Olbermann got death threats by email. That plot thread definitely does fit in with Sorkin's long standing animosity towards the web (Lemon Limón, anyone?), but at the same time, it's true to the characters and the situation.

 

Anyway I dug this past ep, for once Munn got more screen time than Pill. This has to be a good sign. The only disappointment is they didn't more directly center the episode around 3/11/11 and the tsunami. There is a date reveal for the ages, it's a shame they didn't use it.

 

When it comes to Newsroom, in the words of McDonalds: i'm lovin' it.

 

Edited to add that while it was well handled, this episode was a bit too close to the Bartlet therapy episode for my taste. Main character can't sleep. Visits a cheeky and over forward shrink who gets him to realize his problems are the result of his Dad having beat him up. Wash, rinse, repeat.

Edited by Dr Harford - 7/30/12 at 11:26am

I mostly enjoyed this episode even though it was quite similar to the West Wing episodes "Night Five"- Jed Bartlett can't sleep...and "Noel"- Josh has to recount to a psychotherapist events leading up to a 'traumatic' event. Adam Arkin played the Dr. both times.

That was way better.  Probably the best episode of the bunch since maybe the third episode.

People are stretching for reasons to hate this episode.

 

Especially those complaining about Sorkin's beef with the internet. Anonymity pretty much means disaster when it comes to the nature of discourse at least when the signal to noise ratio is considered. "But stelios" you will ask "I've had plenty of civilized, reasoned discourse with anonymous people online. Even here and now." But there's anonymity and then there's anonymity. Am I really anonymous here? Is Greg, or Parker, or Singer? Do we not have an identity which informs us and others with context and burdens our words with accountability? It is not our real life identity but it is a personal identity nonetheless.Take that away and you're left with 4chan or youtube comments.  

I absolutely loved this episode. I think perhaps people are letting their issues with Sorkin cloud their judgement a bit too much and would agree some are stretching somewhat for things to complain about. While I thought the whole Georgia/Georgia and LOL thing was ridiculous, I wouldn't consider this past episode as an example of Sorkin shortchanging women. Sloan messed up in throwing her source under the bus by spouting out his off-the-record information on air, but she did it based on a pep talk by a MAN. And in the end she was right, as pretty much everyone on the show pointed out.

 

So I don't feel like this was Sloan's turn in the barrell. But Waterston's reaction to her broadcast was fantastic. I will say that I enjoyed Sloan's enthusiastic "Can I poke your chest?" and question to Will "Have you felt his pec?" comedy to be way better than her sarcasm to this point. I think she has much better delivery on that style of humor, but I doubt Sorkin writes much of that for her.

 

Overall, I love this show, and this past episode was fantastic. They pulled the whole "insider source" trick again, but they didn't do it in order to push the newscast getting the scoop before everyone else as they have in the past, but as a means for Sloan to have her moment. As long as they keep it fresh in that regard, the magical inside connections thing won't bother me so much.

Man, that scene between Waterston and Munn was just on fire.

I've agreed with many of the criticisms of this show so far, but I also think this was the best epiosde of the season.  Whenever the show focuses more on Will and less on the other characters (Maggie), I enjoy it.   

 

Hard-hitting analysis, I know.   I need some free time at work to really dive in.  It seems to be a  polarizing show and it's very interesting to see how people feel about it.  Opinions are all over the map.

 

I was very pleased she held her own against Waterston. I automaticaly tend to gravitate in favor of people the internet has a hate boner about but it's always nice seeing them display actual quality.

The only part that had me rolling my eyes (ok, apart from the Maggie "Georgia/Georgia, LOL" thing) was Sloan's sudden concern over her friend's "honor".  She didn't seem all that concerned when she was trying to bully him into saying something he clearly wasn't authorized to say.  Other than that, great episode, and yes, the Munn/Waterston showdown was a surprising highlight.

I thought the LOL thing was unlikely to have really happened, but I LOLed at the idea of someone receiving a condolence card with that message. It worked for me on that level.

Does Munn speak Japanese?  If she doesn't, she sure fooled me.

 

I think Munn has been great thus far.  Why does the internet hate her?  Because she's pretty?

 

Mortimer, on the other hand... She continues to be awful.  As is Allison Pill.  Hopefully we keep getting less of each.