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THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN post release discussion - Page 22

post #1051 of 1215
Maguire's Peter seemed like a kid who was raised by senior citizens. Garfield's Peter is as much a nerd as I am a monkey.
post #1052 of 1215

Agreed.  He's the word kind of dork.  The kind who thinks he's James Dean, when he's just kind of a dumbass.  Kind of like symbiote Peter from Spiderman 3. 

post #1053 of 1215

OK, yeah, the "aw shucks" type is more what I meant.

 

And the way Garfield played Peter in this didn't make me think that HE thought he was James Dean. He's awkward and troubled. The "cool" part of him comes out when he puts on the mask.

post #1054 of 1215

But even that's a problem.  I know what cool quipy Spidey sounds and acts like.  He doesn't act ANYTHING like that hyper aggressive cruel douchebag in the car jack sequence.

post #1055 of 1215

He's acting cruelly playful to a CAR THIEF. I think that's kind of OK.

 

And like I said, I definitely had problems with the movie. The Lizard's villainy is weak, which is frustrating because there's potential latent within the damn thing. The stuff that was cut out ends up leaving the film as feeling astoundingly choppy. James Horner's score is so generic it's kind of hilarious. And I'm not entirely happy with their treatment of George Stacy.

 

But what works does work quite well, and I think Garfield is a large part of that.

post #1056 of 1215

And what it ultimately comes down to is this: I love you guys, but I'm not going to pretend I don't have a certain opinion to fit in. That's not how things should work around here.

 

I certainly think there's room for improvement (much like with, hey, the first Raimi outing). But overall, I rather enjoyed this take on the ol' web-slinger.

post #1057 of 1215

I liked Garfield's take on Parker. I like Emma Stone, and Leary as well. But the script, editing, and music were all awful. The Lizard's plan was beyond stupid, even for a comic based film. The film, IMNSHO, fails to justify itself.

post #1058 of 1215

I'm with you Chris. I'm not going to rehash all the pros and cons, but I liked it more than I disliked it. I thought it was a promising start, and I'm looking forward to the next one. 

post #1059 of 1215

Finally got around to watching this over Christmas and... I'm not sure why this movie exists. At least, not in the way it was done. I wasn't a particular fan of the Raimi movies-- mainly because I didn't like the central performances-- but I don't see why we needed a reboot origin story rather than just recasting and moving on with a new Spider-Man adventure.

 

I liked Garfield as Spidey quite a bit, though. And Stone as a female lead over Dunst is no fucking contest-- but I always preferred Gwen to Mary Jane, anyhow. The Lizard was a waste of time. I'm sorry that Leary's George Stacy died in this one, because it didn't seem to have the impact it should have. If they're going to continue with this, I think they could've killed him off in the next movie, and Gwen in the one after that.   

 

It wasn't altogether terrible, and I can also see the seeds for something better. Now that we've dispensed with the origin (again), maybe we'll get it.

 

I'm not jazzed about Electro as the next villain. But I've always thought Spider-Man's rogues gallery was the weakest part of his books. I'm probably an oddball when it comes to that. I remember, as a kid, when the "Amazing Spider-Man" was consumed with the identity of the Hobgoblin, I had a subscription to "The Spectacular Spider-Man", where Spidey fought a lot more street-level crime.

post #1060 of 1215

I was really hoping for a bit there that Captain Stacy would become a Gordon figure for Spider-man.  I mean, if the movie wanted to do something different and ape something else completely, I would've been cool with that.  Spider-man is not Batman, so that could've been something new.

 

You can also maintain the Peter/Gwen tension by still having Captain Stacy make Peter promise that he won't involve his daughter. 

 

I mean, instead of being a limp retread for the most part...

 

EDIT: Aside from making Peter and Gwen come across the most evil couple in the world.  I suppose that's new.

 


Edited by mcnooj82 - 12/30/12 at 10:35am
post #1061 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

And what it ultimately comes down to is this: I love you guys, but I'm not going to pretend I don't have a certain opinion to fit in. That's not how things should work around here.

 

Let's not get all 'persecutie,' Chris.

 

Anyway, I've already gone into why I think this movie represents some of the worst kind of cynical mediocre Hollywood product that ALSO happened to make its existence feel pretty pointless in execution.

 

But that isn't to say they can come up with something better for a sequel.  But not if they approach it the same way they did this one.

 

EDIT:  Perhaps if the sequel actually addressed how awful the ending made Peter/Gwen come across... If they don't seem to deal with any grief/guilt over their actions in a sequel...  I WANT DENNIS LEARY HAUNTING TWITCHY GARFIELD'S NIGHTMARES.


Edited by mcnooj82 - 12/30/12 at 10:37am
post #1062 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I was really hoping for a bit there that Captain Stacy would become a Gordon figure for Spider-man.  I mean, if the movie wanted to do something different and ape something else completely, I would've been cool with that.  Spider-man is not Batman, so that could've been something new.

 

You can also maintain the Peter/Gwen tension by still having Captain Stacy make Peter promise that he won't involve his daughter. 

 

I mean, instead of being a limp retread for the most part...

 

 

The great thing about George Stacy's death in the comics is that it was revealed that he knew Spidey was Peter all along, and asked him to look after Gwen, not stay away from her. The movie botched that.

 

Of course, TDKR botched a similar aspect too (this is for you, nooj). When Batman reveals his identity to Gordon, I wanted Gordon to say something like "Yeah, I know." Not be caught completely flat-footed by it.

 

"Bruce Wayne?!" 

post #1063 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

 

The great thing about George Stacy's death in the comics is that it was revealed that he knew Spidey was Peter all along, and asked him to look after Gwen, not stay away from her. The movie botched that.

 

They already had the material???  GAH!!!

 

Breakin' 3: The Best Promises...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

Of course, TDKR botched a similar aspect too (this is for you, nooj). When Batman reveals his identity to Gordon, I wanted Gordon to say something like "Yeah, I know." Not be caught completely flat-footed by it.

 

"Bruce Wayne?!" 

 

Ahahahahaahah.  Puny movie.

post #1064 of 1215

Sorry for getting "persecutie" for a moment.

 

Anyway, maybe I liked this movie more than most because I never saw Raimi's adaptations as the end-all be-all of Spidey stories. For me, the best one is still the animated series from a few years back, "The Spectacular Spider-Man". It had just about the perfect balance of every great element you need for Spidey.

post #1065 of 1215

Agreed on Spectacular Spider-Man. They got everything just right. I miss it. 

 

I also liked the animated Spidey from MTV from about a decade ago, but I think I'm (nearly) alone there. 

post #1066 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

It's not "Hollywood's" version of a nerd. That makes it sound like it was a take pushed on Raimi.
Raimi's take on 'nerd' was one informed by Raimi's preferred take on the character. It's an aw shucks nerd type.
To label it as "Hollywood" seems like a needless attempt to validate this new movie's approach with a loaded term.

It's also, y'know, a pretty accurate depiction of an ACTUAL NERD. If anything, Garfield's the one doing the "Hollywood Nerd" routine, in that he's wish fulfillment for what we nerds would like to think ourselves as--handsome, super witty, sexually desirable loner.

post #1067 of 1215

When the hell is Garfield super witty when he's not in the suit? Even his taunting of Flash is pretty basic stuff. And there are definitely "rock star" nerds out there, guys. Let's not pretend they can't be pretty too.

post #1068 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Even his taunting of Flash is pretty basic stuff.

 

Perhaps that was just flat writing.

 

I've only seen the movie once.  I don't remember.

post #1069 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

When the hell is Garfield super witty when he's not in the suit? Even his taunting of Flash is pretty basic stuff. And there are definitely "rock star" nerds out there, guys. Let's not pretend they can't be pretty too.

There may be, but in what universe Peter Parker needs to be a "rock star" nerd, I'll never know.

post #1070 of 1215

I guess to me, Parker's looks don't matter THAT much. Even in the comics he tends to not be UGLY. What matters is attitude and acting, and Garfield has that stuff nailed.

 

Let's also not pretend that Tobey Maguire isn't handsome. Skinny and whitebread, yes. Unattractive? No.

post #1071 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

He's acting cruelly playful to a CAR THIEF. I think that's kind of OK.

I gotta think on the hierarchy of criminal scumbags who deserve abuse, car thieves are kinda low. They're not murderers, they're not rapists, it's probably Hollywood bullshit that the guy was even carrying a knife. And yet, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man works him over like he's a member of the KKK.

post #1072 of 1215

http://i.imgur.com/e4oOg.gif

post #1073 of 1215
I want someone to make a gif of Toby Maguire's freak out from Brothers for use in any future Spiderman film threads!
post #1074 of 1215

He's one of those actors who can either be really good with melodramatic material or really bad. In the Spider-Man movies, it can go both ways.

 

Let me reiterate that I in no way think Maguire was BAD. I just have something of a personal preference for Garfield now in terms of live-action Spider-Man.

post #1075 of 1215

http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs6/2480213_o.gif

 

post #1076 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubstreeter View Post

 

 

I also liked the animated Spidey from MTV from about a decade ago, but I think I'm (nearly) alone there. 

There is at least two of us.

post #1077 of 1215

Neil Patrick Harris was a good Spidey/Peter on that show, it had some good guest voices like Michael Dorn or Virginia Madsen, and some of the animation/design work was neat. But they tried WAY too hard to be "hip and edgy".

post #1078 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

TOO SLOW OLD MAN!

 

 

Just like Uncle Ben.  Just...like...Uncle...Oh god.

 

Also, I can't believe we're still talking about this movie. 

post #1079 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by avian View Post

I gotta think on the hierarchy of criminal scumbags who deserve abuse, car thieves are kinda low. They're not murderers, they're not rapists, it's probably Hollywood bullshit that the guy was even carrying a knife. And yet, your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man works him over like he's a member of the KKK.

 

It's been a while, but wasn't the whole reason he targeted that particular thief because he believed it might be the guy who shot his uncle? In which case, I think a little cruel teasing might be within the scope of believability. If this was Batman, he'd probably be in a full-body cast for the next 8-10 months.

 

Also, criminal hierarchy aside, I'm pretty sure if someone stole your car (or financial/emotional equivalent) you'd be OK with him getting scared a little bit before being handed over to the police. Again, this isn't Taken, it's not like Peter hooks electrodes to his nuts then walks away.

post #1080 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post


 

Also, criminal hierarchy aside, I'm pretty sure if someone stole your car (or financial/emotional equivalent) you'd be OK with him getting scared a little bit before being handed over to the police. Again, this isn't Taken, it's not like Peter hooks electrodes to his nuts then walks away.

What a Spider-Man would be like if it was written and directed by Dick Cheney.

post #1081 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post

 

It's been a while, but wasn't the whole reason he targeted that particular thief because he believed it might be the guy who shot his uncle? In which case, I think a little cruel teasing might be within the scope of believability. If this was Batman, he'd probably be in a full-body cast for the next 8-10 months.

 

Also, criminal hierarchy aside, I'm pretty sure if someone stole your car (or financial/emotional equivalent) you'd be OK with him getting scared a little bit before being handed over to the police. Again, this isn't Taken, it's not like Peter hooks electrodes to his nuts then walks away.


The thing is, Peter torments the guy before he even checks if it's his uncle's murderer. Which, to me, says he's getting off on having 'reason' to fuck people up, even if they're not the right guy. Which is sooorta the point of the scene, but at the same time, the movie's going "look! Spidey's wacky and making jokes!", not asking us to see his behavior as sadistic and wrong.

 

So unless we're meant to see one of Spider-Man's defining characteristics since he was created as him going over to the Dark Side...

post #1082 of 1215

Well, it's arguably also showing that he feels FREE to crack jokes and fight while in the suit. Recall that in previous scenes, he had barely tried to fight back against any torment.

 

It just baffles me that you get "sadist" out of that scene. And there's arguably always been something a little sadistic about Spidey's quips. He makes jokes to throw off and distract his enemies. No harm in taking some enjoyment out of it.

post #1083 of 1215
No harm in enjoying your vigilantism, eh? Ohohoho
post #1084 of 1215

That's one of the major points of Peter's persona transforming, though: he can be the person he WANTS to be behind the mask instead of who he actually is.

post #1085 of 1215

I don't know how you DON'T get sadist out of that scene.  Everything about that scene... Peter tormenting the car-jacker isn't done in a fun way.  It really does come off as torment.  The lighting, the aggressive webbing, the dark reflections in his eyes... he comes across more like a villain.  It made me feel almost sorry for the generic car-jacker.

 

And yet the movie still seems to want us to be exhilarated by him slinging away from the cops. 

 

Perhaps there's just something about Garfield's (and the film's) take on Peter that rubbed me completely the wrong way.  Because I found him kinda awful.

post #1086 of 1215

No harm in being a bit of a sadist? 

 

This conversation is making me uncomfortable.  And erect. 

post #1087 of 1215

I'm not saying there's no harm in being a sadist. Don't put words in my mouth. I SAID there's no harm in enjoying taking bad guys down a peg. Which is WHAT SPIDEY DOES, AND HAS ALWAYS DONE.

 

I think we're mature enough to agree to disagree on Garfield's take, nooj.

post #1088 of 1215

Me not mature.  I run things into the ground.

 

But yeah, there is enjoying seeing Spidey take bad guys down a peg.  That's why I clarified with my next post about how sinister the car-jacker scene comes off.  And you know it's not just me from several of the reactions in this thread. 

 

I forget.  Is the movie even aware of how Peter's behavior comes across in that scene?  Does he have a scene of self-reflection about that later in the movie?  Because otherwise, it seems like the movie had a really confused sense of tone.

post #1089 of 1215

I guess I can see WHY people reacted that way, but for me personally it didn't come across that way.

post #1090 of 1215

Spidey takes bad guys down a peg by telling lame/cheesy/secretly funny jokes and literally annoys them so much that they're off their game.  What he doesn't do is bully and physically taunt and enjoy their suffering. 

post #1091 of 1215

Yeah, think we're just going around in circles by this point.

 

To recap: y'all think it was sadistic, I don't, let's move on. Or not.

post #1092 of 1215

I guess I just want to know why you enjoy seeing people physically and emotionally tormented for your pleasure, Chris. 

post #1093 of 1215

Hoping that's sarcasm, but it's called "catharsis". Don't tell me you don't get a thrill out of douchebags being put in their place in fiction. This isn't a PERFECT example, but come on.

post #1094 of 1215

CHUD is all about circles.

 

I hear there's a new Star Wars movie coming out!

post #1095 of 1215

I wonder if the new Star Wars is going to have Luke fucking with a Sith using the Force.  Like a sadist would. 

post #1096 of 1215

The thing about Spidey's put-downs of the carjacker that threw me is that he doesn't say much of anything while in costume after that. He could've at least told the Lizard he looked like bad CGI or something.

post #1097 of 1215

My issue with the Lizard's CGI is less the CGI itself and more the design. It's not badly rendered or animated at all. But his design just makes him look goofy, especially when he's talking.

post #1098 of 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

 He could've at least told the Lizard he looked like bad CGI or something.

I would've LOVED the movie for such a line ALONE.

 

Meta and totally within a geek/nerd character!

post #1099 of 1215

I liked the Lizard better than most people.  I loved how his hands were MASSIVE and his proportions were interestingly different.  If only they changed that damn head...

 

I think Spidey has literally one quip in the school were he's being a smartass.  For all the hype that Webb was giving us Peter from the comics, the Raimi version had more quips in line with classic Spidey.  To this day Peter mocking Randy Savage is still the best example of classic Spidey quippage.  Outside of the Spectacular Cartoon, of course. 

post #1100 of 1215

The head is my main issue too. It's too... dinosaur-y.

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