THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN post release discussion - Page 7

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Originally Posted by felix 

Surprise. Surprise. They rebooting the Marvel Comics Universe as well.

Fuck me. Comics are absolutely insane now. Giving the Hulk some kind of weird armour isn't exactly "rebooting" is it? That's just more waffle and wank. I don't know how anyone, child or adult can enjoy any of this new stuff. They'd be better off just recolouring and inking the original runs.

The film only came alive during the special effects sequences for me.  Too bad they're all spoiled by the trailer, up to and including the climactic moment of the finale.  I would have much preferred to watch a 25 minute sizzle reel of the big set pieces and call it a day.  The 3-D worked well during the night time action, but any time two characters were talking, it was non existent.  I took my glasses off for close to 5 minutes at a stretch here and there and experienced no blurriness.  It just looked better and brighter.  The lizard is silly, but fun in an old school monster mash kind of way and exceedingly well animated.  Other than that, his character was a joke, with a hazy, inexplicable motivation and neck snapping heel turn. 

I hated Garfield and Stone and watching their instantaneous romance was excruciating.  Their forced flirtations were the worst kind of cloying garbage to sit through.  A whole lot of acting going on.  Garfield largely comes across as a giant creep to me.  I dug him in Social Network, but he seems like a coked up, sweaty asshole here and that's not how I prefer my heroes portrayed.  His jittery delivery and spastic mannerisms are regrettably reminiscent of LaBeef as Sam Witwicky, but with his thumbs poking through his mesh long sleeve.  Uncle Ben and Aunt May are a joke.  After Ben dies, May disappears for 56 minutes.  Just lazy. 

My kid loved it though.  He was all jazzed after it wrapped and I did nothing to squash his enthusiasm.  I guess it's a film for 11 year olds, cause it sure wasn't for me.  I'll stick with the energy and personality of Raimi's, thanks.

My further thoughts:

http://shloggshorrorblog.blogspot.com/2012/07/amazing-spider-man.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke fleed 

Ska Oreo, Flash and Peter became friends, after Peter Knocked him to the ground...Hard, than Dunking the ball strong enough to break the backboard.  Flash must have realized that Peter is better as his friend than his enemy.  In the comics Flash was a big fan of Spider-Man, so I liked seeing him wear a shirt with the Spider.

That's kind of...awful, don't you think?  If that's the case, he's only friends by circumstance.

See, here's the problem with that: Flash isn't human; he's a conglomerate of every single bully sterotype in film.  Yeah, he might be more grounded than other interpretations of the character, but he still only serves his purpose as the complete opposite of Parker: the alpha to his beta.  Perhaps I could buy that Thompson, somewhere in his big, meat-head heart, lies the soul of something resembling a human being, but the film doesn't really do much with it, Thompson becomes whatever the film needs him to be.

Of course I blame that on the fact that, besides Peter and Gwen, nearly every single relationship here is incredibly hollow.

I thought it was interesting how chocolate milk plays such a pivotal role in Spider-Man's new origin.

Strong performances all around lost in a mediocre, at times beat-for-beat retread of Spider-Man. Add to it bad writing (So...what happened to Peter's parents? What about the mugger we spent 15 minutes of the narrative hunting down? That Goddamn awful "Sequel setup!" end credits bit) and the absolutely atrocious handling of Uncle Ben's death.

Anyone who says this is "The Spider-Man movie we've been waiting for!" clearly never watched the first two Raimi films and/or knows what they're talking about.

My verdict? 

Couldn't be bothered to see it. Went to see a re-release of Hammer's Quatermass and the Pit. Doubt Spider-Man is better than that.

Ska Oreo, No, Flash Thompson is a typical Movie bully.  Anyone that shows him up earns his respect.  Also since he witnessed how strong Parker is, he doesn't want to be on his bad side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke fleed 

Ska Oreo, No, Flash Thompson is a typical Movie bully.  Anyone that shows him up earns his respect.  Also since he witnessed how strong Parker is, he doesn't want to be on his bad side.

Then, again, that's really awful.

Man, Spiderman 2 is such a good fucking movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bradito 

I thought it was interesting how chocolate milk plays such a pivotal role in Spider-Man's new origin.

His skills weren't complete until he brought home Aunt Mae's eggs.

Seriously, was that Peter's first time in that store? He didn't know he would need two pennies to buy the milk? He hadn't spent enough money on milk in that store over the years to earn two pennies from the tray?

I guess we gotta give Peter a break though, he spent his last million ordering all that top secret bio-cable from Oscorp.

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix 

Surprise. Surprise. They rebooting the Marvel Comics Universe as well.

My God....this will change the Marvel Universe....FOREVER!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 

 

 

My God....this will change the Marvel Universe....FOREVER!

And people wonder why there are some (including myself) that are extremely cynical over this whole "Marvel Cinematic canon."

So I guess now when you-know-who returns he's just gonna write an entire wall of text before being re-banned?

Is that creepythingman?

Indubitably.

So who's the next villain?  I've always wanted to see Kraven, maybe hunting Spidey on the side while he deals with a bigger villain.  Like Royce from Predators running around with an AA-12 and proximity mines etc. out thinking Spidey, or Matthew Mcconaughey from Reign Of Fire?  Anyone?

The way they did Uncle Ben's death was unforgivably bad...

Why?  I didn't feel NEARLY as much emotion about the death as the spine tingly goodness of Raimi's version(the grief, the rage, the sorrow) but I wouldn't say just because Marc Webb is no Sam Raimi that the moment sucked.

They took the blood away from Peter's hands and more on Ben's for getting involved with the gun business.

Which just refocuses the "moral obligation to do what's right" speech, I thought.  Having done nothing to stop the guy would have defeated the point.

Damn there is a lot of hate and snark in this thread.

I just got back from seeing a matinee of The Amazing Spiderman. I am with Dickson. I, too, was a lover of Spiderman 3, and maybe that is why.  The origin story was better in this film than Raimi's. I think Martin Sheen brought the right amount of love, paternalness, and jokes to make his relationship with Peter feel real (The 'He has your picture on his computer, I saw it, I am his Parole Officer' line killed it in my showing.)  Like Freeman said above me, his death goes straight to the moral obligation speech.

Emma Stone and Andrew Garfield have so much chemistry, it is amazing they didn't blow up the OsCorp lab. While, I understand Dellamorte's feeling at the flirting end. It was too much for me as well.  If she had come out and said 'I understand why he asked you to do that, but I am telling you it is okay' I may have been okay with it.  

I actually liked Rosemary Harris better as Aunt May, but maybe that is because she has more lines than Sally Field.  Dennis Leary's character was well-realized, and well acted. Overall, I stand in defiance of the CHUD mind and say, "I liked it!"

Someone earlier said they thought it was a bit of a comedown with Avengers before it and Dark Knight in mind two weeks from now. A friend of mine in the theater said, 'I wonder if we will ever get an Avengers that has Spiderman and Wolverine?'

The aunt May in the new movies could never reach the pure magic of this scene.  I don't care if you think the Raimi movies were "too cheesy" they had so much heart, and sincerity that I just love.  I feel an emotional connection to those movies that isn't as strong for the new version. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVX-cUJGdxs

I dunno, just got back from it, and I mostly liked it.

Sure, it's flawed, but so was Raimi's original.   Still, Spidey 2 remains the best Spider-Man movie.

I dug Garfield's take on Peter Parker, very James Dean-ish, with the tics and the quirks and the angst.   Emma Stone lit up the screen whenever she was around, but when doesn't she in any movie?

My final take is, it's a very flawed script, saved by great work on the part of the two leads.

That scene is fine, but my problem with Aunt May in Raimi's films, and in the most common interpretations of the character, is that she seems to exist almost solely as the speech machine at the most convenient points in the story.  There's nothing wrong with May giving overwritten speeches in small doses, but when that seems to be the sole purpose of the character - at least in her major scenes - that's a bit of an issue and it becomes dull.  Rosemary Harris generally does good work in spite of the scripts, but in most of her scenes she's simply not a character.  I won't be seeing this movie until tomorrow, but I'm disappointed to hear Aunt May isn't in it enough...I liked Webb's idea of a May who challenges Peter as he's coming home with all of these new issues a little more, and not just in her speeches.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

  I won't be seeing this movie until tomorrow, but I'm disappointed to hear Aunt May isn't in it enough...I liked Webb's idea of a May who challenges Peter as he's coming home with all of these new issues a little more, and not just in her speeches.

Yeah, Aunt May is largely played with reaction shots here.   I've read that the movie was heavily re-edited in post production, so I wouldn't be surprised if one of the casualties was that Sally Field's performance was left on the cutting room floor, or, more accurately, on some hard drive sitting in a Mac Pro somewhere.

That's quite disappointing, then.  I found Field to be an inspired choice for Aunt May.

I'm definitely in the "Expected To Hate It, But Surprisingly Liked It" camp.   I thought it was easily on par with first Raimi film.  At mininum, rain-soaked nipples aside, Emma Stone was a marked improvement over Dunst.  I was way more interested in their relationship than Peter/Mary Jane.  The special effects are significantly better, too; I guess Spider-Man just seems more real at night for me.  The big problem I had with all the Raimi films was how fake all the daytime Spidey scenes looked.  They did a good job here.  

The crane thing worked for me, also.  It was cheesy but not a bad as "You mess with one of us; you mess with all of us!" bullshit.   

The "Save all the backstory for the sequel" is kind of annoying, but also I don't really give a shit about Peter's parents.  They're dead.  Fuck 'em.  Let Spidey fight crime without baggage.  

One of the funnier recurring jokes has to do with Peter coming home more and more fucked up as the movie goes on.  She's not a speech machine so much as a person to challenge and worry about Pete.

So, I uh, liked this. Though I would have liked the movie even more if so many beats, especially in the first hour, didn't seem replays of the Raimi original. Still, the good stuff was really good and I look forward to a sequel that stands entirely on its own. This movie suffers mostly from not having a unique identity since it is pretty much a perfect fusion of SPIDER-MAN and BATMAN BEGINS. Still, I did not regret my time spent in the theater, the GF loved it and the 3D Spidey stuff was a lot of fun IMO.

Anecdotal box office observation: My screening was only half full. For a big tentpole superhero film on a holiday in LA, this is a really poor showing. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draco Senior 

That's quite disappointing, then.  I found Field to be an inspired choice for Aunt May.

She still plays a damn good role in this film. Fields comes off as a much better Aunt May than Rosemary Harris. Who played the role more as  "Grandma" May.

Was fully prepared to hate this film, and I damn near loved it.  Never was a huge fan of Raimi's films, I was tired of the MJ plot lines, and her constant involvement in the climax of every film.  This one, hit every right note for me.  I loved the Peter Parker/Gwen Stacy relationship, and actually cared about Peter, as opposed to just Spider-Man in the Raimi films (Toby's Peter just annoyed me).

I sort of wish that there was no Lizard plot in the film, and it was just about Peter and Gwen, with Spider-Man being chased by the police as he tried to track down his uncles killer.  I wasn't a huge fan of the Avengers, but this one did it for me.  Something about the interactions between Gwen and Peter made the film feel real to me.  Solid B.

Caught this earlier today and enjoyed it with lowered expectations. It's beautifully shot with some good action and effects.

As far as the films' characterizations of Peter go, Raimi/Maguire's take was definitely stronger. I feel both are valid presentations of the character, but Maguire played him as an endearing dork. Garfield is a good actor, but it's harder to like an angsty Peter. Much of the Peter-Ben-May stuff feels like they're just going through the motions.

The Lizard was the weakest part of the movie. I like Rhys Ifans, but Connors' character arc was essentially an amalgamation of Green Goblin and Doc Ock from Spider-Man 1 and 2, but poorer than either in execution. The movie could have used a plot that was more grounded to the character. There's really no explaining Connors' everyone-should-be-a-lizard scheme other than he went crazy.

Once you're invested in the Peter/Gwen relationship, it's easy to sit back and enjoy the movie regardless of its weaknesses. Like Raimi's first Spidey movie, it's not perfect, but gets many things right.

Holy crap Pete, you're the last person I ever expected to have something good to say about this movie.

Agreed on every point but the plans motivation.  He was thrilled by the power of becoming the lizard and wanted to share his gift with the world.  Also, he was clearly a little crazed by the serum.  The explanation is there, even if the plan is weak and too silly for the rest of this movie.

So, I'm probably gonna wait for the dollar theater for this, can someone spoil the credits scene for me?

Somebody visits Connors in prison.  No idea who.  They say nothing to him.

I was already sure the origin story had been altered at the last minute, but Devin has done a good job of explaining the details:

http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/05/was-the-untold-story-cut-from-the-amazing-spider-man/

This explains everything. It explains why the early buzz was so toxic (the destiny plot does sound horribly hacky). It explains why the editing is so choppy. It explains why Peter's arc is so unsatisfying. It explains why plot threads are abandoned mid-story.

Hopefully at some point Sony will release the original edit of the movie. It might be flat-out awful in that form, but it at least justifies the movie existing.... to some extent. By changing the origin so radically it does become "an untold story". In its present form it isn't so much a reboot as a remake of the 2002 movie with a different villain.

It's a miracle I like this movie as much as I do.  It's got some serious issues under the hood.  As a plus this movie has helped me appreciate Sam Raimi and his films maybe more than I ever have.  He makes it all look so easy.

Are the Raimi films really that good? I mean i've watched them a few times but i never felt any deep love to revisit them anytime soon. I'd much prefer Garfield's interpetration of Peter Parker than Tobey's. Ditto for Emma Stone over Kristen Dunst. I admit AMAZING has some serious Editing and Plot problems, but it clicked for me much better than the Raimi films for some reason.

I am thinking of catching it again later this weekend.

Yes, they are that good. Especially 2.
 

I think 1 is uneven and hasn't particularly aged well (the middle is pretty dull, Franco's Harry and his scenes with Peter are less interesting than I remembered, everything that happens with the GG, including the burning building and rooftop talk, after the World Fair feels unengaging and not well put together, and the Goblin-fu, despite the film's goofiness, is just one degree too high on the stupid scale with that poor costume), but 2 holds up pretty well and remains the best of the three.

This doesn't even come anywhere close to the emotional resonance of Spidey 2, but that's an awfully high bar for any super-hero film to clear.  But on the whole, I'd say I enjoyed it more than 1 or 3.

my problem with 2, was how MJ turned into this awful person.  I couldn't stand her "me me me" attitude and the way she subjected her fiance to her obsession with Spider-Man, it made her come off like a star fucker and not someone conflicted. 

Doc Ock's criminal activity seemed off to me.  Robbing banks?  Why?  Was he buying the equipment at the local Radio Shack and he needed funds?  Why not just steal the parts, probably easier.  Then, when he needs to ask Peter a question, he THROWS A CAR AT HIM!  He didn't know he was Spider-Man at the time, and needs his help, so he picks up a car and tries to crush him with it?  I guess you could say he was "conflicted" with anger due to his inability to control his arms, but it still came off as WTF?  I loved the OR scene, but then 30 minutes later you get a scene of Aunt May hitting him in the face with her umbrella, then hanging 10 stories up on a building after he chucks her.  Very big shifts of tone.  Oh, and of course, MJ in trouble AGAIN at the climax. 

It's still a good movie, just not as GREAT as everyone claims it to be for me. 

Interesting bit from AICN

Capone: We were debating whether it was a prison or a mental institute.

RI: It's not a zoo. [laughs] I kept seeing it as maybe a mixture of both. Then a representative from OsCorp appears miraculously in the room. How he gets in there and how he leaves, we don’t know. Maybe we will find out. But it’s not Norman Osborn.

Capone: It’s not? You can say that?

RI: Yeah. But it is someone who is in the employ of Norman Osborn without question.

Capone: Someone we're familiar with, who we don’t know is employed by Osborn?

RI: Yeah.

Capone: Okay, interesting.

 

"I will not die a monster"

It's becoming clear that the way forward for superhero properties is bland, inoffensive regurgitation, free of tone and flair. Seriously, complaining about Ock robbing banks and May hanging off of a building? Have you ever *read* a comic?

What does reading a comic have to do with a film?  Seriously, a movie should STAND ON IT'S OWN, and not require the audience to have years invested into comic lore.  Having a plot revolving around a crazed scientist who dreams of holding the sun in his hands is cool, but having him due pointless stuff like robbing banks because that is what the stereotypical comic book villain does, is stupid.  "Have you ever read a comic", that's something I expect to hear from a 12 year old. 

Free of tone?  How about Raimi PICKING A TONE, and sticking with it.  Everyone of his Spidey films suffer from him wanting to do everything, and anything. 

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Originally Posted by Monster Pete 

What does reading a comic have to do with a film?  Seriously, a movie should STAND ON IT'S OWN, and not require the audience to have years invested into comic lore.  Having a plot revolving around a crazed scientist who dreams of holding the sun in his hands is cool, but having him due pointless stuff like robbing banks because that is what the stereotypical comic book villain does, is stupid.  "Have you ever read a comic", that's something I expect to hear from a 12 year old. 

 

Free of tone?  How about Raimi PICKING A TONE, and sticking with it.  Everyone of his films suffer from him wanting to do everything, and anything. 

A crazed scientist who has already stated in a conversation with his sentient metal tentacles that he's going to steal cash to fund his experiments. Yeah, those robberies sure lack motivation! IT'S IN THE FILM, YOU DUNCE. My comment about not reading comics has got nothing to do with it being "what a comics villain does" and everything to do with the film not shying away from the inherent nuttiness of superheroes in print.

And holy fuck, are you ever off about tone. Raimi's command and balance of the operatic and the goofy is what makes SPIDER-MAN 2 sing. I weep for the future of film fandom when faced with such lack of imagination.