THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN post release discussion - Page 12

 

The Green Goblin looks even more ridiculous with the cap and cloth armor in the comics, but at least that would not have been as restrictive (in both body expression and in facial expression, which is why make-up would have helped Dafoe's expressive performance more than a poorly designed mask with his bug eyes sometimes sliding out).  Dafoe does well in the role, but the stiff armor looks really fucking awful in some scenes, especially during the final confrontation when he's doing all of that flying around.  It doesn't even work in a "Well, this is knowingly stupid" way.  It's just stupid.  For all of the complaints about the Lizard, he's probably the second best-looking villain in any of the films after Doc Ock.  Goblin is last.

 

...And has this become a "Let's discuss the Raimi films and only mention ASM on occasion"?  Because there are threads for those films.  There's a world of difference between discussing the trilogy because of their relation to the reboot and only discussing the trilogy at the expense of the reboot.  There's really no discussion there, just various forms of bashing.

But this thread is where the Spidey-action is!  Let's continue the bashing!

 

http://badassdigest.com/2012/07/06/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-amazing-spider-man-has-99-problems-but-an-uncle-be/

 

Such timing.

 

 

 

 

ALSO!!  This should be here also:

 

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/5663387/happy_birthday_sam_raimi_from_james_franco/

Edited by mcnooj82 - 7/6/12 at 3:00pm

I'm sorry this thread has turned into the Raimi films did it all better, but hey.  That's wassup.

 

Willem gives an AMAZING performance as Green Goblin.  I've been going through the clips and I would argue he has tons of iconic moments.

 

"FINISH IT!"

 

"Now that you've really PISSSSSSED me offf, I'm going to kill her, niiiiice, and sloowwwwwwwwwwwwww."

 

That whole talking to himself in the mirror scene!  The goblin scowl he gives himself, leaping out of the container after the expierment looking all predatory....

 

This bums me out because even though I enjoyed ASM, it doesn't have a single moment I can think of that will be naturally iconic for kids ten years from now.

 

If Sony hadn't pulled that "UNTOLD STORY!" bullshit, then I'd agree it was unfair to compare...

 

See I always liked the Green Goblin's look in the comics. The thing of it is, Norman Osborne thinks he's all BadAss in that suit: in fact he looks ridiculous. It's because he's as crazy as a Pineapple!

It does work in the comics, and I think, given Raimi's tone and the expressiveness of Dafoe, it would have translated well visually.  You really can't have that kind of performance and not go all make-up or CGI (if the first Spiderman had been made in 2012, I could definitely see a fully mo-capped Goblin with the comic design, even if it could be accomplished with make-up), which is why the poorly designed, stiff suit utterly fails to work.  If Dafoe didn't work so well, it would be a disaster.

 

Aside from that, at least most of the classic gadgetry is kept.  But the suit sucks, and ranks far below the design of the Lizard.

 

Until the end when he decides that getting his dick wet is more important than her father's dying plea to leave her the fuck out of it.  And I still cannot get over her shit-eating smirk and how it makes absolutely no sense for her to even want to be near this person, especially after that scene in her room where she speaks about how she fears for her father every single fucking day and how she doesn't want that in her love life.  And now, the worst has happened.  Her father has died.  Her boyfriend was involved.  She knows her father asked with his dying breath for said boyfriend to walk away for her own sake, but he selfishly doesn't.  And she's smirking like the cat who caught the fucking canary.  If that is not the definition of an evil cunt, I don't know what is. 

 

Bring on that fucking bridge.

If your father no fly zoned you Harley, and I was Spiderman, I'd totes suffer.
 

Dammit, outta rep for HQ!

Not for nothing, but the "American way" was tacked onto "Truth and justice" in the 50's during HUAC, at the behest of people involved in HUAC if I recall correctly (it's not in SR for commercial reasons, but my distaste for the historical reasons for the addition makes me perfectly fine with its exclusion). That's your useless comic book history lesson for the day.

I was psyched to see this Monday. Couldn't wait. When I realized it came out a day earlier than I thought, I contemplated seeing it at midnight. Tuesday, Spidey 2( and 3) was on FX. Totally deflated my enthusiasm for this movie.  Probably gonna see it tomorrow.

 

Is the 3d worth seeing? In general, outside of animated films I don't have any inclination to see 3d, but some of the webslinging seems like it might be cool, kinda like the Universal Ride. What's the verdict on that?

 

Edited by mcnooj82 - 7/6/12 at 6:56pm

 

CUNTS OF THE HIGHEST ORDER!

Totally disposable and often non-existant 3D. Another big wasted opportunity on an already considerable heap of wasted opportunities. Save yourself the extra 2 or 3 bucks.

Saw it today and just didn't give a shit.  Somewhere on an Avid in Los Angeles, there is a version of this film that makes sense.

 

Strippers and porn stars wear longer skirts than Gwen Stacy wore to school.  Couple that with the constant knee-high fuck-me boots and I'm surprised that every guy in school wasn't collapsing into a pile of cum-soaked pants as she passed by in the hallway.

 

What I'm saying is looking at Emma Stone was the best thing I got out of the film.

This is worded oddly like a complaint.  Don't make us launch an investigation into you.

Well, we've heard from the serial rapist contingent. Anyone have anything else to add?

So, what are everyone's odds that Marc Webb stays on board for a sequel?

 

And there's more evidence regarding what the "Untold Story" is about Parker's Destiny.  You know how movie tie-in merchandise - like tie-in novels based on shooting scripts - can refer to story elements that were later removed from a film's final cut just before the film is released?  Well, just having just watched the first ten minutes of a walkthrough of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN videogame, there's a sizable story element from what might've been the original script that could corroborate the theory of just what Peter's dad was really working on ("The Untold Story") and what certain lines from the film's trailer might be referring to.  Something that they'll probably make a big, huge deal of in any sequels.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Edited by Engineer - 7/7/12 at 12:38am

That's an interesting point, won't the weird tie in books feature all the cut stuff? Or did they hastily re-write those too?

Could go either way.  If they're already out in stores/online and the changes were as last-minute as they were said to be, they might not have had enough time to recall, edit or rewrite them.  It happens.

I don't think Webb returns.  I HOPE Webb doesn't return.  As a side note I'm LOVING the Spectacular Spidey TV series.  It's so much fun.

Actually I kind of like the idea of cutting it out and spreading it out over the next couple of movies, if that is what they plan to do anyway.

So...

 

Raimi movie.

 

Pete wants to impress MJ with a cool car, just like Flashes.  He looks in the paper, eventually finding a cheap sports car.  Below that is a wrestling gig for 3 minutes in the ring, $3000.  Colorful characters a must, and so we cut to Peter going through the process of designing the costume.

 

Webb movie.

 

Pete sees a luchadore poster, needs a mask for his assaults, decides to use that one.  Then gets a full body costume.  For some reason.

 

 

No, not a complaint just an observation.  Remember back to when I was in HS, I think that most guys would've had their heads explode if they saw someone that gorgeous in that type of outfit all the time in school.  The wardrobe department did a good job of helping Emma accentuate her wonderful physical assets and I couldn't help but notice.

 

Speaking of The Untold Story, I saw a commercial last night that featured the two lines from Mr. Ratha (whatever his name is, the executive that was pressuring Connors) that reference Peter being special/his parents having a big secret, etc.  THE FILM IS ALREADY RELEASED, WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL RUNNING THESE SPOTS??

Whoa whoa whoa, my apologies for coming across like a tame Ted Bundy.  I was just shocked by the outfits she would wear to school.  I wasn't really complaining from a visual standpoint because it is Emma Stone in a short skirt and knee-high boots.

Bottom line, this doesn't have a song as ghastly as Chad Kroeger's "Hero" in it, does it? (Seeing it today)

 

And they say that a HEEEEro can save us
I'm not gunna stannn heeere and hhhwaiiiiit

 

You're welcome for the earworm.

AHHHHHM SO HIIIGH, I CAN HEEEER HEVUUUUUUUUUUGHN

 

(answer: no, it doesn't. thank christ.)

 

Yeah, I got stuck on that part, too. A kid who has no intention of being a hero at that point (and no motivation to become one) decides to spend a ton of time and money on a super-stylized costume to go beat up blond dudes until he finds the one who killed Ben.

 

I didn't hate this film, but it's just so odd in its choices.

 

Ben gets shot and Peter Parker doesn't react to the gunshot less than 100 feet away from him, but turns around seconds later and happens to see Ben on the ground.

Peter tests out his new webshooters by jumping off a fucking skyscraper and lands in front of a deserted coffee shop in New York, with no witnesses? I've never been to New York, but I have a hard time believing that any coffee shop in that city would be deserted in the middle of the day, much less the entire street.

Peter is strong enough to hold an SUV up by a string, with one hand, but is physically powerless against the Lizard and just keeps shooting webs at him (even though those aren't working either).

 

It's pretty clear that Marc Webb was hired to fill the seat, and probably worked on the cheap. It's been said before, but it's the choices the actors made with their characters that ultimately save the film and give it heart. I really enjoy (500) Days of Summer, but it's because of how Joseph Gordon Levitt interprets the character that makes it work -- and in both cases, the lead actor seems to have a better and more interesting take on the material than the director does.

 

There were two shots in the film that really worked for me, and felt very Spider-Man. The first was the scene with Stan Lee. That shot had more kinetic energy and inspiration that any other shot in any of the fight scenes. And the shot of Peter sitting on his webbing, playing that Bust-A-Move knock off on his cellphone, while waiting for The Lizard. Everything else felt like it was simply going through the motions. Which basically sums up the film, entirely. I'm hoping for a sequel free of all the baggage this one had, because I genuinely liked Garfield as Parker.

Christ, I'm glad the "we gotta have a hit single in this superhero flick" thing stopped (although I appreciate the farcical yearning for Seal songs in TDKR in another thread).

 

...fuckin' Daredevil: BRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING MEEEEEEEEEEEEE TOOOOOOOOOO LIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIFE

Ummm........

I seem to remember Marc Webb saying there are numerous hints or easter eggs for other Spider-Man villains, sprinkled throughout the movie. Other than Norman Osborn/Green Goblin and C.Thomas Howell/Crane Man......did anyone notice or catch anything else?

 

Farcical?  I don't think anyone is joking.  That song is a growing addiction that none of us can't deny.

I just want to pint out that Uncle Ben got himself shot. He shouldn't have gone for the robber's gun. That is just stupid. It's not Peter's fault that Uncle Ben got himself shot playing cowboy. 

Yeah, I thought the same thing.

 

"Don't reach for that gun!  Don't reach for that gun!"

 

Particularly since the guy wasn't holding anyone hostage or threatening anyone at that moment.  He was running away with some greasy looking dude yelling for him to stop. 

 

Back to Raimi!  It makes a lot of sense that Raimi doesn't even show us what happened, because that wasn't all that important if we already knew the integrity of Ben's character.

 

Also... where were you on that one, Spidey-sense?

 

I know, right?  Maybe on a Sunday morning at 8am on the Upper West Side.  That's about as close to deserted as I've ever seen NYC get.

 

And even then, Raimi shows what happened at the end of 3, probably at the studio's behest. And even with being a bullshit retcon, still managed to pull that off in a classy, genuine manner. It doesn't seem like it'd be hard. ASM just feelt like "Well, this needs to happen. Have him do something stupid, like he *hasn't* lived in New York more than 20 years."

 

Ahhahahaha.  I completely forgot about that!  I remember thinking how weird that was too. 

 

He must've fallen into the opening scene of Vanilla Sky for a moment.

Nah, I think he makes a good point there. The way it's handled in the film I think works just fine.

My point with that costume discovery comparison ties into the fatal flaw of the movie. Hulk wrote a great article about why this movie isn't resonating like the other movies with people, it's being dismissed as "hey, that wasn't so bad" but NOBODY loves it with passion.  It's because scenes just kind of jump around happening.  Peter discovers and builds his costume ONLY because we as the audience know that he needs to put it on.  Raimi painstakingly designed a logical smart reason for Pete to design the suit, a reason that it has the red and blue look, why it's kind of a cheesy wrestling outfit that hides his identity, why he starts saving people when Uncle Ben dies.  They linger on his guilt so that you as an audience feel emotionally like it's time to start kicking butt and saving lives.

 

The new flick never has that.  You're never emotionally right there with Peter FEELING his progression.  You're just watching a checklist that doesn't impact so you don't care as much.

 

That's similar to one of the things that had me foaming at the mouth at Mr. And Mrs. Smith...after Jolie kills the arms dealer (or whatever) and jumps out the window, using the rope/purse to land safely on the sidewalk...there are at least 6 or more people walking around when she lands in front of the hotel and nobody notices...or they do and don't react...at all.

I expect Webb to use the hoary old excuse of "New Yorkers are so jaded, nothing bothers them!"

That is one of the better jokes in the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie.

 

"...  Was that a giant turtle wearing a trench coat...?"

"Yup.  So how about this weather?"

NO!

 

It's...

 

"You're going to LaGuardia, right?"

 

This film could have been much better with just a few different choices. Have Peter save the kid on the bridge. Then have him listen to Ben's voicemail. Then have him make the suit. Problem solved.

Yeah, what was the deal with saving the 2nd half of Ben's voicemail for later?  That seemed to serve absolutely no purpose... other than to withhold it for the film's ending.

 

I can gather for myself that Peter wasn't ready to listen to it at that point, but never did that come across dramatically.  It felt completely artificial.

 

The filmmakers half-ass way of saying, "See?!? We didn't forget about Uncle Ben!" (which they totally did).

 

That whole bit reeked of reshoots.

Yes!  YEESSSSSS.  Continue fueling my disdain towards this movie.  It is my PROMETHEUS!

 

I, NOOJ, now lead!  Let all who love this movie, STEEEEEEP FORWAAAARD!!!

 

(Ninja Turtles 2 reference)

Can we talk about how awesome Ninja Turtles is?

Things that the Ninja Turtles movies do better than ASM...

 

Let me COUNT the ways!

 

ONE-ONE THOUSAND!

 

TWO- ONE THOUSAND!

 

THREE-ONE THOUSAND!

 

(leading into the ways Roger Rabbit is better than ASM...)

 

 

 

... I can be so very PEH-TEE... and TAI-NEE.