Somebody please explain the ending of Matrix Revolutions...

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Originally Posted by Ambler 

 

A shot back in the machine city of Neo's body spasming, like the machines did something to him.

 

The machines pumped him full of a virus which in turn infected the Smith program. He hadn't updated Norton so he crashed.

Wasn't the idea that the Smith program's only function was to completely take over the entire Matrix?  Once Neo allows Smith to assimilate him, Smith's function is complete, and he's essentially destroyed for being useless.  Something like that.  It's been years, but I think that was the gist of it.

Neo and Smith were uncommon absolute integers that were fucking up the stability of The Matrix. As long as there was pulling on either side, there would never be peace. So Neo lets Smith assimilate him, which cancels them both out. Remove the absolutes and you find the middle ground.

To put it mathematically, -1 + 1 = 0.

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Originally Posted by The Rocka-Who? 

Wasn't the idea that the Smith program's only function was to completely take over the entire Matrix?  Once Neo allows Smith to assimilate him, Smith's function is complete, and he's essentially destroyed for being useless.  Something like that.  It's been years, but I think that was the gist of it.

Pretty much. Every agent's function is to preserve the status quo, balance in the equation. Once the inbalance in the Matrix's code is neutralized, Smith realized his primary function, and was deleted.

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Originally Posted by The Rocka-Who? 
 

Completely off topic but your user name and avatar makes me wonder why I have never seen any Fozzie Bear Wokkateer artwork.  I don't know why, but it did.

Carry on.

Well shit... I completely misunderstood The Matrix Revolutions.

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

 

Pretty much. Every agent's function is to preserve the status quo, balance in the equation. Once the inbalance in the Matrix's code is neutralized, Smith realized his primary function, and was deleted.

Except Smith wasn't an Agent anymore. He was destroyed by Neo in the first one and was reborn as a kind of virus; if he was an Agent of anything, it would be Chaos. Assimilate all the avatars in The Matrix and there can't be any rebellion. Except it was consuming the machines as well, so he posed a threat of both sides. Thematically, he was a mirror; while Neo's mission was to free everyone, Smith's was to enslave. The point the sequels tried (to varying success) to make was that both goals weren't looking at the big picture; neither are obtainable, hence, the armistice. Which is why their final battle doesn't produce a victor: as long as you keep trying to mash similar poles together on magnet they'll never touch. When Neo realizes what has to happen and surrenders himself willingly, the two absolutes meet and a solution is found. He wasn't deleted, he was tricked into basically canceling himself out.

That's really the major stumble I felt with that ending.  I've only seen it the one time, but I remember thinking that Neo must have done what he did intentionally, and yet it seemed like it happened almost by accident.

The Oracle Smith gives Neo a vague clue right there towards the end, which helps Neo figure it out. That Smith even has a "The fuck did I just say?" look right after he says it.

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Originally Posted by Bailey 

That's really the major stumble I felt with that ending.  I've only seen it the one time, but I remember thinking that Neo must have done what he did intentionally, and yet it seemed like it happened almost by accident.

Well he would have to have gone willingly to maintain the Christ analogy correct?

The Neo/Smith superbrawl goes on too long, but the function of it was for Neo to realize that he couldn't beat Smith by fighting him.

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I wouldn't call it 'giving up'. It was Neo performing a necessary sacrifice to defeat Smith. Continuing to fight him would be endless and pointless. It was Neo accepting death and the function of The One. It makes that whole extended Dragonball/Superman fight pretty pointless, no? Heheheh

Again, having only seen it the once I can't recall if Neo realized what he had to do before, or just in that final moment, but I think part of his struggle with Smith was as much a symbolic gesture towards the notion of freedom as anything.  (He has the whole "because I choose to" line.)

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Originally Posted by Greg Clark 

Except Smith wasn't an Agent anymore. He was destroyed by Neo in the first one and was reborn as a kind of virus; if he was an Agent of anything, it would be Chaos. Assimilate all the avatars in The Matrix and there can't be any rebellion. Except it was consuming the machines as well, so he posed a threat of both sides. Thematically, he was a mirror; while Neo's mission was to free everyone, Smith's was to enslave. The point the sequels tried (to varying success) to make was that both goals weren't looking at the big picture; neither are obtainable, hence, the armistice. Which is why their final battle doesn't produce a victor: as long as you keep trying to mash similar poles together on magnet they'll never touch. When Neo realizes what has to happen and surrenders himself willingly, the two absolutes meet and a solution is found. He wasn't deleted, he was tricked into basically canceling himself out.

Agreed with most of this, but I still think Smith's bound by the rules set for him, just as much as Neo was. Only difference is that Neo allows himself to fulfill his function on his own terms and fully understands his choices, whereas Smith is still another program carrying out what was written, albeit in human(i.e. virus) terms.

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Originally Posted by Ambler 

Interesting.  So why did Neo just give up?  Did he finally realize the way to defeat Smith?  Or did he really just not care anymore?

He realized what he needed to do before he even left Zion. Still doesn't mean he wasn't going to go down fighting. It's Neo reasserting his humanity. It's his choice to do some damage to Smith before he succumbs.

Based on my memory of the film, I honestly don't think Neo knew how everything would end.  He was definitely putting up the good symbolic fight as a capital-C "CHOICE," but I don't think he knew exactly how to go about defeating Smith aside from physical means.

Because it's really Oracle-Smith blurting out the "Everything that has a beginning has an end" line that seems to wake Neo up.  It's something he knew in the back of his mind, but had to be reminded of.  And that's when he gives himself over to Smith.

I always saw it as a good faith gesture to the Machines.  Somebody had to be the first to lay down their weapons, so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

Agreed with most of this, but I still think Smith's bound by the rules set for him, just as much as Neo was. Only difference is that Neo allows himself to fulfill his function on his own terms and fully understands his choices, whereas Smith is still another program carrying out what was written, albeit in human(i.e. virus) terms.

My blind hatred against this movie aside; i think there's a scene or line that states that while programs can change or update themselves, they remain bound by their original designs; The oracle could change her looks, Smith was reborn without the limitations of his fellow agents, the train man transported and so on, but the core functions and essence remain; Smith pretty much existed to kill Neo, and therefore, once he killed/absorbed him, he fullfiled his function, and thus ceased to be;  Smith claims there is no freedom in anyone's actions, and that includes him.

Doesnt make the movie any worse of better IMO, but at least there's some consistence there.

I should admit that Ive never seen the movie again since the first time, so i might not remember it right.

Also, did they ever state just how much of the matrix's population actually exists? I mean, everything pretty much happens in the same city, so I guess a lot of the world and its population were virtual or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambler 

Because I still don't get it. 

 

Neo lets Smith assimilate him. 

 

CUT TO

 

A shot back in the machine city of Neo's body spasming, like the machines did something to him.

 

CUT TO

 

The matrix and all the Smiths explode with light.

 

I don't get it.

If my brother (who was sat next to me in the theater) is to be trusted, Pot and booze do not help to understand it, so dont try it.

He didn't know how, but he knew the end result, way way, WAY before Smith did. Neo was actually told the outcome was inevitable. Smith had to realize it.

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Originally Posted by ryoken 
Also, did they ever state just how much of the matrix's population actually exists? I mean, everything pretty much happens in the same city, so I guess a lot of the world and its population were virtual or something.

They never do, although the assumptions there that most, if not all, of the higher ups in charge of social/governmental/human services were created as maintenance software.

With the final scene of the third film (Oracle and Architect), the whole trilogy ends up being:

The Oracle Gambit

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

He didn't know how, but he knew the end result, way way, WAY before Smith did. Neo was actually told the outcome was inevitable. Smith had to realize it.

Since the Oracle is essentially within Smith, shouldn't he already know it?  Hehehe.  It's almost as if the Oracle (swimming inside Smith) got sick of the drawn out fight between the two lunkheads and had to intervene.

"Ugh, you morons.  This is taking too long!  INTERVENTION!!!"

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Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

 

They never do, although the assumptions there that most, if not all, of the higher ups in charge of social/governmental/human services were created as maintenance software.

i kinda assumed that the city (is it the same city everytime?) were the movies take place is the actual part of the matrix with real world humans; every other country, people or place are just fully virtual objects.

It could be sorta like the Truman Show, were there never was any actual contact or interaction outside the town.

Also, wouldnt it had been more efficient to wipe out Zion the very first time and then build an energy network based on its geothermal power sources? Or just shoot some ballons over the clouds with solar reflectors?

Dammit, im getting nerdier over this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryoken 

 

i kinda assumed that the city (is it the same city everytime?) were the movies take place is the actual part of the matrix with real world humans; every other country, people or place are just fully virtual objects.

It could be sorta like the Truman Show, were there never was any actual contact or interaction outside the town.

Also, wouldnt it had been more efficient to wipe out Zion the very first time and then build an energy network based on its geothermal power sources? Or just shoot some ballons over the clouds with solar reflectors?

Dammit, im getting nerdier over this.

Efficient, yes. However, that's not the machine's goal in creating The Matrix. The machines WANT humans around. They gave them life, sentience, a model to work off of for creativity. The feeling wasn't mutual when the machines got that far.  So after the war, they created a way so that everyone benefits. The machines are still protecting their creators, in their way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

Efficient, yes. However, that's not the machine's goal in creating The Matrix. The machines WANT humans around. They gave them life, sentience, a model to work off of for creativity. The feeling wasn't mutual when the machines got that far.  So after the war, they created a way so that everyone benefits. The machines are still protecting their creators, in their way.

Yeah, i suppose so...but is thie ever mentioned in the films or was part of the Animatrix or some other tie-in? Its jut that ive wiped a LOT of Matrix related memories of my brain.

I wonder if sometimes the program screwed up and say, a racist white supremacist awakened only to fin out he was black or something....stupid idea, but who knows.

Also, are fat people inside matrix fat in the real world? that wouldnt make sense, from a supplies point of view.

Id better stop before i start ranting about who was being Cipher's operator during his time selling out the crew back in the first film.

It's in Second Renaissance in The Animatrix. We fucked over the machines HARD prior to the first film.

Pretty well explained above.  Previous "Ones" has returned to the Source to fulfill their programming.  This reboots the system, purging the inherent instability of the One (represented by no-longer-Agent Smith "This is happening exactly as before." --- "Not exactly."...the yin to the yang, so to speak).  Neo chose to NOT return to the Source, in order to save Trinity, near the end of Reloaded.  This choice was driven by their personal love (set in motion by the Oracle), negating the ability of the system to reset itself.  The system is now broken, beyond traditional repair.

So the instability grows (Smith), effectively taking over and threatening the Matrix and therefore the real world ("This is my world.  MY world.")  Neo makes a deal with the uber-menschine to end the war if the cleans out the Matrix (having lost Trinity, he is now ready to sacrifice himself).  At the beginning of his return into the Matrix, I think Neo just wants to punch Smith in the face.  They fight a while to prove a point.  Then Smith repeats a line from the Oracle, clearly indiciating to Neo that Smith  Smith overwrites who he takes over...he doesn't delete them.  Yin and yang must meet and offset.  He recognizes this truth and allows Smith to overwrite him (but he is still Neo, and still connected through the Machine babyface lord) and this enables the Machines to McAfee Smith and restore both the world and his victims (as they were just overwritten).  The imbalance is fixed, but the system isn't rebooted. 

And everyone agrees to give peace a chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Clark 

It's in Second Renaissance in The Animatrix. We fucked over the machines HARD prior to the first film.

Yeah, i remember that...oddly enough, it was far more interesting than the sequels themselves (although a bit on the nose, robot executions and all that).

In fact, the only short that dissapointed me was the last one by Peter Cheung, but then again, ive never really enjoyed his work, admirable as it is.

Supergeek time.  Ready?   (Apologies if this has already been covered in a previous post.)   I say Neo might not be dead.  There is a visual cue that could point to this.

Something occurred to me while seeing Revolutions.  When Neo is blinded by Bane-possessed-by-Smith, Neo's "vision" of the world around him becomes a sort of glowing golden effect (contrasting his drizzling green-code effect of "sight" while in the Matrix).  It's what lets him "see" Smith through the burns and fight against Smith/Bane.  Later, when Neo is walking through the tunnel toward the area in which he meets the Babyface Machine God, he also sees things glowing golden, if I remember it correctly.  Later, Neo is beaten by Smith in the Matrix - and he also "dies" in the World of the Real - and his body is respectingly taken by the machines...  But...  We see this happening in glowing golden effect again, this time from outside Neo's body.  So if we've only seen this glowing effect from Neo's "vision" / Neo's body's point of view, then who's point of view are we seeing his body being taken away through?  

Is Neo really dead, or is his consciousness just now one-with-the-machines, digitally godlike and mechanically omniscient, like The Major in the Ghost in the Shell films?  Tough to tell.  (The movie ends so abruptly that the Wachowskis might not have given it a second thought.)  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it does stick out in terms of visual narrative choice.  

(I haven't played that ancillary Matrix Online MMORPG, but I heard that even though it takes place after Revolutions, the legend of Neo and his influence still figured into the narrative.) 

Just a thought.  :)

We do actually see a bit of the Golden Machine Spirit in the opening titles of Revolutions.  That is... IF you count the opening titles.  Interesting theory!

Neo sacrificed himself to stop Smith and thus balance the matrix. He did it to broker peace between the humans and the machines and save Zion. 

Is it really that difficult to grasp?

I think Ambler was just saying he didn't get the specifics of what happened.  Not the generalities.