SAVAGES Discussion - Page 2

The book is amazing. Mde me track backwards through his other books which I love to varying degrees. Second favorite is The Dawn Patrol. The only one I didn't like was California Life And Fire.

 

Also I found the three main characters very sympathetic in the book.

So definitely read the book (or get the audio book so I can listen to it while I paint ;) ), and instead watch True Romance (again).  

 

Check. 

That last shot of Del Toro, is that from Traffic?
 

Just got out of this last night....screening was surprisingly packed for a Monday night after opening based on the grosses from the weekend. Hopefully if this does well enough we'll see more Winslow on the big screen. I know "Machine" was kicking around with Scorsese/DeNiro but pretty sure it fell through.

 

I'll just add to those that put this as just "there". As an enormous fan of the book I knew changes were to be expected to translate this to the big screen but the ending to the film left me dumbfounded. I wouldn't be surprised if the studio did step in but I would be if Stone rolled over so easily. I know he worked very closely with Winslow and Shane Salerno in getting the book to the screen but the film definitely lost a lot of the book's impact in the translation.

 

Still, there was a lot to like throughout the film. It's nice to see a heavy duty crime flick like this opposite all the usual summer fare. The bursts of violence throughout really hit the audience I was with hard, especially Alex's torture. Loved the scene with Elena ripping Lado, Alex, and Jaime down about not letting her know about the missing $$$ and dead henchmen. 

 

Performances varied. Del Toro, Hayek, Travolta all brought their stuff big time, especially Del Toro.  The cartel story was much more compelling than that of the three leads which is unfortunate as most of my enjoyment from the book came from their unique relationship. The book gave their fight with the Cartel seemingly higher stakes as well.  I recall it was just the two of them setting up and executing a series of increasingly daring hijackings by themselves. The movie gave them a half dozen Navy Seals to help and it didn't seem like too much of a challenge.

 

Very happy to see Stone back in this mode though. Hope he can channel this energy into his future work.

The Book Savages by Don Winslow is superbly brilliant.

 

I had a very hard time putting it down.

 

I have seen the movie previews for the Movie Savages by Oliver Stone,

 

and after reading Winslow's incredible book, all I can say is,

 

I can not wait to see how the movie turned out.

 

Everyone who sees the movie, would do themselves an incredible favor

 

by reading the book first.

 

I have watched all of the trailers for the movie online, via Hulu and Youtube,

 

and a couple other random sites.

 

And every single character seems to me, to have been cast perfectly for each

 

role.

 

I can not wait to see the movie.

 

They were all characters I could relate to, and reading the book was like sharing

 

an experience with someone who secretly has peered into a world that I have

 

seem glimpses of myself, but have never really been able to talk to anyone about.

 

I love, love, love the book. Don Winslow is a brilliant writer.

 

I can not wait to see the characters brought to life on screen.

 

And I can not reiterate enough, how beautifully casted the main characters appear

 

to be based on the careful development of the characters in the book.

 

I think if you didn't "understand" the movie, or if you had "trouble" connecting with or

 

caring about the characters, and you were "incapable" of appreciating this movie,

 

you definately should give the book a try. But part of me thinks, unless there is a part of

 

you that has lived as a savage, you might not ever be able to truely appreciate either

 

of these beautiful linguistic and screen works of art. And that's okay, because I'm pretty

 

sure all of "us" savages out here, get it. We get it. And it was perfectly written.

 

I especially am disappointed in the critics who claim Blake Lively's character / performance

 

was lacking in depth. Sometimes a character's depth comes from things that you are supposed

 

to observe about them, from their past, from the things you are supposed to intrinsically understand

 

about their circumstances. Read the book people. Then maybe you will go, O!

 

Thoughtfully - AmiLyn ( AmiLynCam@gmail.com )

Well put.

Is Kate back?

Didn't see any references to Alexander the Great, so probably not.

Maybe it's another one of creepythin's personalities.

Could be, but it doesn't feel a whole lot like CTM. (Then again, the last time he showed up, he accused me of being pro-Holocaust in the Cabin in the Woods thread.)

 

Insufficient bile, surely.

No, that was Stone's ending. Trust me.

Alright let's try this shit again.

 

 

 

I saw this last week. I haven't read the book (though I'm fairly eager to do so now, not to mention dig into some of the rest of Winslow's work) but I gotta say: leaving aside the utter personality void that is Blake Lively (whoever it was that said the entire reason she even has a career at all is due to the fact that she has a mouth is spot on: as harsh and nasty a way of putting it as that is, there's simply no other reasonable explanation I can fathom as to how an actress this completely devoid of anything resembling talent is getting such prominent work in major films like this when she'd be totally unconvincing even as an extra) as well as the utterly full of shit cop-out ending, I otherwise actually enjoyed this a great deal. 

 

Lively, rancid as she was, wasn't a deal breaker; that ending sure as hell was though. Way to completely ruin what could've been (and for the most part up to that point was) a pretty mean little crime flick. But I really did like this a lot right up until that point. It was blunt, unapologetically brutal and visceral (please don't laugh, but I damn near cried with joy at the sight of actual, super-splattery, practical squibs getting heavy use in a major mainstream film made in 2012: its the little, stupid things in life that please me), and had a few otherwise great performances strewn about.

 

Del Toro's rightfully been singled out a bunch, but I gotta say I was most impressed with Hayek more than anyone else. She was the MVP of this thing for me by a long shot. Helps that she had a pretty terrifically written character to work with, but she completely killed in all her scenes (especially the scene where she sees her daughter tied up in that freezer: Jesus Christ did she sell the absolute hell out of that moment) and definitely more than helped drown out Lively's awfulness in all their scenes together (though in Lively's quasi-defense, it hardly helped her much that she easily had the worst, most cringe inducingly written dialogue in the film: that opening narration in particular was almost physically painful to listen to and starts the film on almost as terrible a note as it ends on).

 

Dusk Till Dawn aside, I can't remember the last time I've seen Hayek play a villain (and definitely not one with any depth or shades of gray like this one), but she should do it far more often. Not like I haven't been a fan of hers since forever and ever ago, and it's definitely not like she hasn't already long since proven ages ago that she's got real legit chops, but its always nice to see them put to good use like this. Kitsch and Johnson were hardly spectacular or anything, but they were serviceable and inoffensive (and I'm hardly a big fan of either of them at all in any case). And of course its nice to finally see Travolta show up in something that isn't completely embarrassing. He was legitimately good fun here and I haven't been able to say that about him in far, far too long. Loved his spazzing out in the car when Kitsch knifes him through the hand.

 

I definitely rather wish that the crux of the film focused a bit more on Elena's cartel (mostly since that side of the film is way overloaded with the better actors and more interestingly written characters), but all in all I found this to be a wonderfully refreshing anti-summer film which for all its flaws (and it certainly has more than enough to spare) was ruined most primarily above all by that fucking godawful 2nd ending. And again the opening narration was no prize winner either. I was pretty taken though with the middle bulk sandwiched in between the shaky beginning and inexcusably wretched ending.

 

My semi-goodwill towards this could also just be that we're largely bereft of in-your-face, blood soaked, meat and potatoes crime films made with legit, non-DTV production values (gems like Drive are all too rare godsends) and I'm simply desperate and starving enough to take whatever the hell I can get these days (not to mention the fact that I walked in with zero expectations or baggage the way I did with Prometheus). Not to drudge up the bad note I left this place on last time, but more films of this type in wide, major release (albeit preferably of course with far less crippling flaws than this one had) are precisely among the sort of thing I was lamenting in that ill-advised (or at least ill-timed) "there's way too many goddamn superhero and family friendly geek-bait films clogging up theaters and this is a horrendous thing" rant I was on awhile ago.

 

In either case (and its definitely not saying a whole lot considering) but as pussed down from its source material as this was, this is still without a doubt the best thing Oliver Stone's put out since what... U Turn I think? Jesus, I was in junior high when that came out. That's some motherfucker of a slump.

Edited by Jaquio - 7/14/12 at 12:50pm

What the hell was up with Travolta's haircut in this?

 

Just so so for me. Selma Hayek and Del Torio gave some great performances here though. Blake Lively is just terrible (or maybe that's how O is supposed to be written). She sure as hell doesn't display any charm or sex appeal to show that she's the love of Ben and Cho's lives.

Oh goddamn it.  After ripping through Kings of Cool and Savages, I dove into Winslow's Death and Life of Bobby Z... loved it.  A really fun, exciting book.  Would make a great movie.  Figured with the success of the Savages adaptation, perhaps more Winslow would get greenlit.  

 

And then, I saw on imdb that some sub-par Paul Walker-led version already got pooped out in 2007.  That sucks.  

 

Of course, I'll have to rent it now.  Damn it.   

Having finally getting 'round to seeing this, I'll be the lone nut who actually likes the second ending. I think the first ending is cliched as hell:SPOILER

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

SPOILER

 

Other than that, I have to concur with most of the people in this thread: Del Toro, Travolta and Hayek are outstanding, and I wish more time had been spent with them. Kisch was pretty good here, much better than in John Carter (which is so bad), the rest, meh. However, I think think the main problems of the film lie in 1) the script, which gives the Anglo actors very little to work with, especially O (God) 2) Stone clearly wanted to make a film about the Mexican drug wars and wasn't too interested in the travails of the Weed Gang.

 

This is the second film in the "Hey drugs are OK and will be legalized soon so what's up with all this violence let's just run a business" genre, the first being Layer Cake.

 

I think that last sentence above encapsulates my main disappointment with this film: Classic Oliver Stone was always ahead of the curve, going at us with topics (JFK Hit, Watergate, Wall Street etc) that were timely, but which no one else was dealing with, in film anyway. Savages reads like Stone watched Layer Cake and though "yeah! I want to do a movie like that!, somebody get me a crime novel I can make into a film". Which may be unfair of me, but I kept getting reminded of Layer Cake during this film.

I think reading the book first completely colored how I viewed the actual ending of the movie.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 

But ultimately the novel works as a tragedy, changing the ending in this case hurts it the same way as changing the ending of The Friends of Eddie Coyle.

This was intriguing and had some solid moments. I heard about the time rewind ending so I just stopped watching when everyone died.  Kitch was just as empty as I've ever seen him, but Aaron Johnson was solid and the mexican cast was as well. The problem with Blake Lively is that she seemed like a bleach blond trollop with zero personality. Hardly someone worth  risking death over.

 

Travolta was great and he's also lost a lot of weight. I wondered if he was in good health.

Edited by Dr Harford - 1/16/13 at 4:00pm

 

 

I really, really dug Travolta in this and hope he does more character type roles.

 

My problem with Blake Lively is she looks like a burned out 30 something fresh from Rehab, not the Sex Goddess she is supposed to be. Her "conversation" at dinner with Hayek is so great because it shows her as totally vapid. Which makes the two male leads equally vapid for seeing her as this ultimate love of their lives.

 

Del Toro, Hayek and Travolta's characters were heinous, but they had histories, you cared about them and speculated about them; the Anglos were just 2 dimensional douche bags, and the only thing I wondered is why (other than money) they had any friends at all (and yet they all have ultra loyal friends who are willing to kill for them!).

Cho seems a nice enough guy though. He practically runs a Relief Organisation through his profits.

I'd all but given up on Travolta, but this film reminded me that he can act and has charisma. I hope he does more of this sort of thing. 

 

Well put with regards to Lively. She's far from a sex goddess. Not to be crass, but if you told me there was a Blake Lively sex tape, I wouldn't find that idea particularly enticing. Not only isn't she my type, she seemed worn out and used up, like a rehab refugee, as you suggested. The reverential status she's bestowed by the other leads distances the audience from those characters. 

 

Emile Hirsch was fine too, for what that's worth.

 

The most affecting (and best directed) scene in the film was for me the shots of Aaron Johnson holding the flare. Stone did an excellent job of realizing that "crossing a line in the sand moment", and I really had to wonder how that character could ever live with himself after what he and Kitch did. 

 

It's pretty bland, and that's not all on Walker.

 

I thought I'd had an inspiration a couple years ago when I suggested that Winslow's Dawn Patrol and Gentlemen's Hour could be the basis for FX's next Justified: character-driven, often black-comic crime stories in a well-realized regional environment. Then I read that they, in fact, actually grew out of a Winslow TV pitch.

I caught up with this on Blu today - in it's Extended! Uncut! form. Has anyone else seen this version?

 

It contains a brief scene where O imagines dancing with Oliver Stone during her imaginary holiday in Paris.

 

I am not making this up:

 

Holy Shit that's awful.

It's even stranger where they've placed it in the film - O has been kidnapped, and is writing a fake letter to her absentee mother disguising her actual circumstances. Her mind wonders to happier days - when she and Oliver Stone were re-enacting Singing In The Rain around the Paris tourist spots!

 

I wondered: Is Oliver, like, in this movie then? The auteur breaking down the fourth wall, Grant Morrison-style, and implementing that fast-rewind happy ending because he is a benevolent master and he knows (or thinks) we want it all to end well?

Stone has frequently cameo'd in films he's directed.

Oh, he still does pot. Quite a bit.

Not even Don Winslow understood why Elena was wearing a wig in the movie and he helped write the thing.
 

Oliver Stone is one of my all-time favorite directors. JFK and Platoon are in my Top 10. Lately, I just don't get it. Any Given Sunday was the last one of his narratives I liked (not counting the docs he's done). And that was a long time ago. As for this movie?

 

I thought the style of the film was Stone through and through, but the film felt about four days long.

 

I loved the work of Travolta, Del Toro and Hayek, and didn't care about the leads at all.

i read this book on tour in afghanistan and had to leave it their so im asking if i can get the whole last page quoted by anyone that owns the book. i remember it being poetic and would like to read it again. Anyone help? please

My wife got around to reading Kings of Cool and Savages recently, so we finally sat down to watch Savages last night. 

 

The "cake-and-eat-it-too" ending(s) was as bad as I was warned it would be. Taylor Kitsch's Chon was pretty wooden (as is Kitsch). But I liked Aaron Johnson's Ben quite a bit. I haven't seen Johnson since Kick-Ass, he's nearly unrecognizable when compared to that. And Blake Lively's O, well, its a character a just about despised through two novels, played by an "actress" who is, as far as I can tell, anything but. However, I found that I didn't want to wring her neck, which I guess is a positive. Del Toro and Travolta are the highlights for me. Hayek is good, but I wanted more of her, and Emill Hirsch was just wasted.

 

Stone's movie definitely wanted to have something relevant to say, but didn't. Got lost up its own ass, essentially. I certainly didn't mind seeing a movie where Stone appeared to wake up for the first time in years, sadly it was only visually. All the social commentary he excelled at from the mid-80's through the mid-90's seems lost now. I'm still mad at myself for sitting through Wall Street 2 one night on HBO. Ah well.

 

I'm nowhere near hating Savages. If nothing else, this adaptation was a missed opportunity to a solid page-turner.

Just watched this. I'm fairly sure it's five and a half hours long.