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The Seth MacFarlane Conundrum

post #1 of 38
Thread Starter 

I mused about this over in the TED thread, but I have incredibly mixed feelings about Seth MacFarlane and his animated FOX shows. On the one hand:

 

-MacFarlane doesn't have the widest vocal range, but he's a pretty good actor WITHIN that range. Brian, Stewie, Roger and Stan Smith are probably his best four performances. He was also unexpectedly delightful as Johann Krauss in Hellboy II.

 

-He's an *excellent* singer; go pick up his "Music Is Better Than Words" album if you haven't already.

 

-On a related note, I share his deep, abiding love of old musicals.

 

-American Dad has its problems, but is actually pretty damn good and funny a good chunk of the time. It has a much more interesting cast on both the writing and performing level than Family Guy or Cleveland (though admittedly they don't always know what to do with Hayley), the humor doesn't rely nearly as much on Family Guy's crutches (easy pop culture references, casual misogyny, "hilarious" stereotypes that actually ARE racist or offensive, gags that test your patience with how long they run), and it actually bothers to tell real stories, no matter how absurd they might be.

 

Does it just have a different crew of writers or something?

 

On the other hand:

 

-His character design style, whether it's actually him or just dictating to the design artists, is painfully bland and generic. On top of that, his shows are easily the least interesting from a directorial and storyboarding standpoint in regards to televised comedy animation. My main pet peeve is that all too often, the "camera" will just sit in one place for an entire scene, minutes on end. It's boring, and even American Dad runs into this, although usually I do tend to find that show a little more interesting because it goes to some really weird places visually sometimes. "Rapture's Delight", anybody?

 

-God, Family Guy sucks. I can't even enjoy the older episodes for the most part anymore because rewatching reveals that the problems were already there. The ultra-boring visuals, the lazy writing, etc. And Peter Griffin is easily the least interesting horrible protagonist in any of these shows. MacFarlane's performance for him is easily my least favorite; it starts to become grating pretty fast. I'm not really fond of Alex Borstein or Mila Kunis on the show either, though to be fair it's not like the writers give them much help. The supporting cast is actually solid from an acting perspective, though that's because you have folks like Patrick Warburton, Jennifer Tilly, Phil LaMarr, Lori Alan and Adam West rounding it out.

 

-I tried watching one episode of The Cleveland Show, just to be fair. Aside from Kevin Michael Richardson's inspired high-pitched work as Cleveland, Jr., and the sheer weirdness of David Lynch as the local bartender, everything else was dulllllll. It felt exactly like Family Guy, except with the skin tones and locale changed.

 

Am I alone in these ambivalent feelings, or do most of y'all just hate the guy?

post #2 of 38

Hate on general principle.  Except in Hellboy 2.

post #3 of 38

The first 3 series of Family Guy are great, as is Stewie Griffin: The untold story.  

 

The trouble is, a lot like George Lucas (who he seems very pally with now) there are very few people who have the balls to tell him his  current ideas suck.

post #4 of 38

With Ted's opening weekend gross, who's he gonna listen to?  NOBODY!

post #5 of 38

If he manages to get the new Cosmos on the air with Neil DeGrasse Tyson he can make all the shitty animated shows he wants, as far as I'm concerned.

post #6 of 38

Plus, dude bought Carl Sagan's papers and donated 'em to the Library of Congress. So there's that.

 

Todd MacFarlane = Uses big money to buy a fuckin' baseball and keep rights to Miracleman tied up in court for years

 

Seth MacFarlane = Uses big money to make scientific stuff accessible

 

Advantage: Seth

post #7 of 38

Like the guy when he's on point. Im just bored shitless by him when he's not. I tend to think most of the hate comes from the same peoiple who would be bored otherwise, but are inundated by people who think he's God's gift to comedy. Which is understandable, but the guy is capable of good.

 

I also think he works best in short doses, not in long form. That Cavalcade of Cartoon Comedy flick he did some time ago felt like nothing but Family Guy outtakes from end to end, and IT WORKS.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post


-I tried watching one episode of The Cleveland Show, just to be fair. Aside from Kevin Michael Richardson's inspired high-pitched work as Cleveland, Jr., and the sheer weirdness of David Lynch as the local bartender, everything else was dulllllll. It felt exactly like Family Guy, except with the skin tones and locale changed.

 

HOLY SHIT WHAT?

post #8 of 38

Yeah, I should probably amend my "shitty animated shows" bit by saying he's certainly made me laugh, and, like Justin says, when he's on point he can be great.

post #9 of 38

I can't think about McFarlane without thinking about this:

 

SPimage11_jpg_300x1000_q85.jpg

 

Cool about Sagan, though.

post #10 of 38

I wasn't even impressed with Family Guy when it first aired.  So that it died and came back and became this institution was bewildering to me at the time.

 

Mostly, I think I took offense at my immediate impression that it was such a crude knock-off of The Simpsons, but really just focusing on the 'Remember the time that Homer did this?' humor. 

post #11 of 38

I recently watched an episode of Family Guy that was centered about Meg confronting the family over their abuse of her.

It was horrible all around, only to morph into horrid thanks to a WTF ending.

Hellboy 2 and Sagan related stuff aside, the guy can get fucked by a pack of wild boars for all i care; the return of Family Guy is a clear example of "be careful what you wish for, you might just get it; hell, i remember an episode he hosted that made it hard not to punch the screen.

post #12 of 38

Haven't enjoyed any of his animated shows but he always seems like a cool classy guy in interviews so god knows i want to like him.

post #13 of 38

That's pretty much where I stand on him too. He actually seems quite likeable but his work is just hacky shite, and that includes his voice stuff. Hank Azaria he is not.

post #14 of 38

I actually really like the show American Dad has turned into in later seasons, but I suspect that has a lot to do with the fact that Seth McFarlane is mostly just voice acting on it these days and leaves the jokes and writing up to other people. I think Roger is a hilarious character and he has a lot of great bits. 

 

I'm pretty indifferent to Family Guy and The Cleveland show though, they can make me laugh every now and then but mostly it's just irritating. I enjoy some of the Stewie and Brian moments on Family Guy but they aren't enough to make up for everything else. 

post #15 of 38

I forgive MacFarlane for a lot due to Roger, who is easily one of my favorite animated characters.  American Dad is pretty terrific.

 

I think what I appreciate about AD the most is that the Smiths have a lot of personality and there's just a sense of fun between all of their voice actors...on the other hand, the wretched Griffins have just morphed into one indistinguishable blob of assholeishness. 

 

Family Guy is still okay for the occasionally good episode that focuses on Brian and Stewie, but that's about it.

post #16 of 38

"This is woise than that thread where mcnooj..."

 

*cut to random shit, preferably involving mcnooj fighting a giant chicken*

post #17 of 38

And or something kinda racist.

post #18 of 38

I'm actually eating that chicken right now.

 

Extra crispy.

post #19 of 38

Adam Carolla made an interesting observation--he said that the "Animation Domination" block on Sunday nights is dwindling in the ratings, and he said Fox better hope "Ted" isn't successful, because if it is, you can kiss Macfarlane goodbye on TV.  So now that Ted was #1 this past weekend (no matter how it finishes out), he may have one foot out the "TV" door now to do films.

post #20 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post

Plus, dude bought Carl Sagan's papers and donated 'em to the Library of Congress. So there's that.

 

Todd MacFarlane = Uses big money to buy a fuckin' baseball and keep rights to Miracleman tied up in court for years

 

Seth MacFarlane = Uses big money to make scientific stuff accessible

 

Advantage: Seth

 

True. But,

 

a) You can compare nearly any asshole to Todd MacFarlane and they'll look like saints by comparison, and

b) None of this makes Seth's shit any funnier

 

Like Evi said, I want to like Seth Mac's stuff. He seems like a genuinely cool, smart guy, and that's always nice to see among successful creative types and personalities. But outside of the first few seasons of Family Guy and the odd American Dad episode here and there, he doesn't make me laugh. That's his foremost responsibility as a comedic voice actor and writer. I wouldn't really think twice about him, but I know that he can make me laugh, so the fact that he hasn't throughout the majority of his career proves to be a frustration to me. The dude's not an unfunny schlub. He's just...resting.

 

I think his big problem is the monumental success he's seen from his television enterprises, and the fact that it came relatively quickly. When you have a ready-made audience, one that flocked to you without much hesitation and therefore required you to do very little by way of bending over backwards, then there's very little reason to innovate or step outside of formula. That's why Family Guy has gone so far south in the latter chunk of its seasons-- it just does the exact same shit every single damn episode, only changing the punchlines to avoid being completely identical to the preceding installments. It's not interesting, and it's not particularly funny. The South Park episode eviscerating MacFarlane's adherence to flashbacks and cutaways is so entirely spot-on that it's kinda scary. 

 

The other major issue I have just lies in how he writes his jokes. Maybe writing a story around jokes in television is okay, but in a movie, it's dangerous. Ted failed for me because the only reason any scene exists is so that he can tell a stale shock joke that was considered offensive back in 2005. There's nothing natural about it, and yes, humor should feel natural and not like it's being shoe-horned in for its own sake. (For the most part.) It's forced, inorganic, and not at all fresh.

 

So yeah, I like Seth Mac, but I don't like what he does. He's got talent. He just doesn't have incentive. I'd kill to see him do more stuff like Hellboy 2

post #21 of 38

McFarlane is definitely a talented guy and even seems to WANT to stretch himself creatively--Hellboy 2, the proposed Cosmos remake--but he also seems awfully lazy, or at least, afraid to step away from what's worked for him in the past. I kinda hope he does step away from television just because at least it may cause him to stretch a little, though Ted certainly seems like it's got all his worst tics on display too.

 

I dunno. I'm starting to realize that creatives have to navigate a bit of a minefield in order not to end up wasting their initial promise, and one of the biggest obstacles seems to be success. Kevin Smith was an honestly talented guy once upon a time, but he developed an undiscriminating cult following early on and made enough money that he didn't have to keep working at it. I fear the same is true of MacFarlane. There's potential there, but no impetus to unlock it, and it's rapidly fading away.

post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

McFarlane is definitely a talented guy and even seems to WANT to stretch himself creatively--Hellboy 2, the proposed Cosmos remake--but he also seems awfully lazy, or at least, afraid to step away from what's worked for him in the past. I kinda hope he does step away from television just because at least it may cause him to stretch a little, though Ted certainly seems like it's got all his worst tics on display too.

 

I dunno. I'm starting to realize that creatives have to navigate a bit of a minefield in order not to end up wasting their initial promise, and one of the biggest obstacles seems to be success. Kevin Smith was an honestly talented guy once upon a time, but he developed an undiscriminating cult following early on and made enough money that he didn't have to keep working at it. I fear the same is true of MacFarlane. There's potential there, but no impetus to unlock it, and it's rapidly fading away.

There's inklings. Some of the American Dads he's responsible for spearheading of late have a surprising amount of complexity. Lots of people gave him shit for it (it doesn't quite work as well as he wanted), but the score-less Family Guy episode at the bank vault between Brian and Stewie was, at bare minimum, a risk. And there's a genuine heart at the center of Ted that, if nurtured, could bloom into something fantastic. But the guy's honorbound by his crass bread and butter. I think he's got a ways to go, but he definitely has more of a fire under his ass than Smith.

post #23 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin Clark View Post

And there's a genuine heart at the center of Ted that, if nurtured, could bloom into something fantastic. 

 

I think that's one of the core problems with the film. It's there, but it almost seems like he's insecure about it. Ted and John can't have a moment of platonic love together without there being a joke to break the tension. That really bothered me. 

post #24 of 38

I've often wondered that if McFarlane was told by FOX to make a new show that cant A)have an overweight idiot lead B) a hot wife C)talking animals or objects D)an ambigously gay character and e)non sequitur humor, his head would explode like a scanners GIF.

Its like asking Fran Miller to write a strong female character who isnt a hooker or dresses as one.

Its actually kind of sad, when you compare it to a guy like Mike Judge, who really went diverse in his career.

post #25 of 38
Thread Starter 

And I suppose this is where I confess that I never much liked Mike Judge's stuff, and promptly get lynched for it. Oh, I don't HATE his work by any stretch, but shows like King of the Hill or Beavis and Butthead never really inspire any strong feelings in me beyond "Eh, that was a piece of well-acted 'meh'." I should probably at least see Office Space at some point since I worship at the altars of both Gary Cole and Stephen Root.

 

Anyway, glad to see enough American Dad defenders in here so I don't have to feel as guilty about enjoying that show anymore.

post #26 of 38
Thread Starter 

And to be perfectly honest? I'm kind of intrigued by where MacFarlane would possibly have taken The Flintstones. I've never REALLY been a fan of the original show (the only Hannah-Barbera show I swear by is the original Scooby-Doo; most of the rest can rot for all I care), so it couldn't have been worse.

post #27 of 38
My only liking for Seth's work is for Hellboy II, and American Dad. American Dad is much funnier than either of his other two animated shows.
post #28 of 38

At least to some extent, I think MacFarlane is a victim of the successes of the Simpsons and Family Guy. People rag on him for churning out shows with the same general premise but this seems to be the mold for Fox's animated sitcoms in general. The ones that don't follow that formula get canned in relatively short order. And it's not as though Fox hasn't tried breaking out of that formula (...next up, Axe Cop!).

 

King of the Hill? Mom, Dad, two kids, some wacky neighbors: 13 season run. Bob's Burgers? Mom, Dad, three kids: renewed for 3rd season.

 

Canned: The Critic, Futurama, The PJs, Sit Down Shut Up, Allen Gregory, Napoleon Dynamite

post #29 of 38
Thread Starter 

Didn't Allen Gregory also suck, though?

post #30 of 38

Bob's Burgers is still going (and has been renewed for 2013), but seems to be the exception that proves the FOX mediocrity-rule.

 

The more Jon Benjamin on the air, the better, IMO.

 

 

(EDIT: Ninja'd by PMR.)

post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

And to be perfectly honest? I'm kind of intrigued by where MacFarlane would possibly have taken The Flintstones. I've never REALLY been a fan of the original show (the only Hannah-Barbera show I swear by is the original Scooby-Doo; most of the rest can rot for all I care), so it couldn't have been worse.

 

There was a Harvey Birdman episode that basically made Fred and Wilma into Tony and Carmela Soprano. I've been waiting for someone to take that ball and run it into the endzone for years now.

post #32 of 38

Man, those first several episodes of Harvey Birdman were so great.  It kinda went too far for me after that, but there was some truly fantastic takes on old characters on that show.

 

"Why don't we just call you WHITE FISH???"

post #33 of 38

Family Guy in its first 3 seasons was gold. Not on par with The Simpsons in its prime but it's definitely the reason why Family Guy became the phenomenon it did. I do not get the love for American Dad as it's pretty bland as the later seasons of Family Guy became.

post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Family Guy in its first 3 seasons was gold. Not on par with The Simpsons in its prime but it's definitely the reason why Family Guy became the phenomenon it did. I do not get the love for American Dad as it's pretty bland as the later seasons of Family Guy became.

 

For me, American Dad is terrific because I genuinely love the main cast (Steve, Roger and Stan in particular) and think it's much more inventive and smart than any of MacFarlane's other shows.  IMO, I think American Dad has produced recent episodes that are in a whole other league than even the best of early Family Guy.

post #35 of 38
Thread Starter 

American Dad gets points for either telling actually touching and funny stories (that one where Stan and Francine ice-skate together, and Future Human Klaus is telling the story to his grandson is a good one), or just ratcheting up the insanity to new levels. I'm thinking in particular of "Rapture's Delight".

post #36 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

American Dad gets points for either telling actually touching and funny stories (that one where Stan and Francine ice-skate together, and Future Human Klaus is telling the story to his grandson is a good one), or just ratcheting up the insanity to new levels. I'm thinking in particular of "Rapture's Delight".

 

Yeah, in general that show goes to places that Seth MacFarlane never would have thought of, the writers are great. I was reading an interview yesterday where he was talking about the awesome direction the show has taken without him running it: http://www.hitfix.com/articles/hitfix-interview-seth-macfarlane-talks-bones-american-dad-and-family-guy

 

 

 

Quote:

HitFix: "American Dad" has always seemed like the the kid brother of "Family Guy." What's it like seeing it all grown up and reaching this milestone?

Seth MacFarlane: Oh, it's fantastic. These guys have worked very hard and it's great to see them all rewarded for it. [Mike] Barker and [Matt] Weitzman have done a terrific job running the show. This is the result.

 

HitFix: "American Dad" has developed its own voice over the years. How do you see Barker and Weitzman's work as being different from yours?

SM: They're definitely more bizarre in some ways. In good ways. They're very off-beat. They're not afraid to let a story go to a crazy place. Like the whole family going up to Heaven during Judgment Day. They will take that kind of crazy left-turn that, at times, we wouldn't do. I think it works for them.

 

HitFix: Between "Family Guy" and "American Dad" and "The Cleveland Show," how are you balancing your time these days?

SM: Most of the time is still spent on "Family Guy." It's worked really well to put the right people in charge of the other shows, people that I trust. That's been a system that's worked well, because it's kept the three shows from feeling the same.

 
post #37 of 38
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I thought he didn't have as much to with it writing-wise. Nice to see it confirmed. And bear in mind, I don't think American Dad's risks ALWAYS pay off (the golden turd storyline, ugh). And once the show actually moved away more from politics, it opened up a lot more possibilities. Hell, they even managed to do some good political stories like "Lincoln Lover" or "Surro-Gate". But I do tend to prefer the more off-the-wall ones.

post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

Man, those first several episodes of Harvey Birdman were so great.  It kinda went too far for me after that, but there was some truly fantastic takes on old characters on that show.

 

"Why don't we just call you WHITE FISH???"


"Didya get that thing i sent ya?"

 

The episode about Secret Squirrel charged with indecent exposure slays me everytime I see it...specially the part where they change the Terror level alert to a Rush album cover.

Insanely quotable show.

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