THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... - Page 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

I'll keep this brief. I saw it again and it's true, it plays like Hendrix the second go around. When you know what's comin, the film doesn't seem nearly as distracted with its multiple character arc, thematic interests and sprawling scope. I haven't said a whole lot in this thread because as I've previously mentioned, I'm glad it's all over, but I'll go to bat for this film any old day of the week.

Seconded (again!). I really think that when you let TDKR be its own beast, instead of TDK v1.5, it just works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

Gotta disagree there. It's clear in the comparison that different line readings were used for a lot of the lines. Whether those came from an ADR session or if they were audio from unused onset takes we are not likely to ever know. 

You might be right. I'm going by something I read in the Art and Making Of, but that's a company-sponsored piece, so not always trustworthy WRT some of the shakier aspects of the films. (Frex, the book of course reiterates the company line as to why Maggie G replaced Holmes in TDK.)

If I could venture to guess, I'd bet that after the reaction to the prologue, that segment of the film got extra attention in post, with the thinking that once Bane's voice was sonically established, people would adjust to it and have an easier time with it as the film goes. I know Nolan favors onset dialog and wouldn't be surprised if most of Bane's was captured onset with a lav mic in the mask. But there was definitely considerable re-jiggering done in that opening.

No matter to me though, I like what we got.

I understand really, and if there's one thing I'm absolutely not going to get all snotty about with the movie, it's Hathaway's performance.

I think the logic behind it though is probably the reason I remain a bit distanced from Nolan's universe in general. 

If Harry Potter can get a best picture nomination for its last installment, I think this has as good a chance. Granted, this isn't as huge an accomplishment as a 7 movie series, but I think what Nolan has done is enough to at least earn a 'respect' nomination.

I think they might also give it some best picture nomination love to make up for snubbing "The Dark Knight", which (as has been pointed out a few times now) pissed off a lot of people, and apparently had some influence on the expanding to 10 nominees decision.

Also, the strengths of "The Dark Knight Rises" give greater resonance to its predecessors (much like "Lord of the Rings: Return of the King"), even if it's inferior to them in certain ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naisu Baddi 

If Harry Potter can get a best picture nomination for its last installment, I think this has as good a chance.

Deathly Hallows Part II wasn't nominated?

One little detail I loved: any other man would've been startled by the bats, would've probably stumbled and fell. Not Bruce though. In a way, fate's been preparing him his whole life to climb out of that pit. 

You can't.  Kill.  Fucking.  Batman.  That shit would have been WAAAAAAY too dark.  Bruce Wayne, THIS Bruce, deserves his happy ending at a little cafe in Florence.  He deserves to smile god damn it.
 

You said "pull." 

  Mike Stoklasa of Red Letter Media fame said  he didn't have a problem with Bruce climbing out of the prison and then just appearing back in Gotham. His logic is that it works emotionally. The movie is about Batman rising. Seeing Bruce climb out of the pit is important to his character's arc; so he can look past Bruce just showing up in the nick of time. Jay and him both gave TDKR high marks.

Well, I went and watched it again like a doof. And I suppose I'm the odd man out, because a second viewing didn't really improve my opinion of the movie at all. In writing a big-ass piece about the film, I'd settled on the conclusion that it's okay, and that the reason I couldn't tell if I liked it or not was because I felt nothing much for it at all. The rewatch pretty much confirmed that for me.

On the one hand, my bladder didn't feel like it would rupture for half the movie, so that was automatically an improvement. On the other hand, rather than plot holes being cleared up, I actually found new little things that bugged me. For instance, Foley doesn't believe Bane is real until he abducts the Wayne Enterprises people, except that he was caught on tape, mask in full view, during the stock market raid. Strange. Also, paying attention to the clock on the bomb, it reads 11 minutes when Talia sets out after it. Several minutes later, when she catches up... it's at ten minutes. Hilarious. But whatever, that's not really important.

I'm actually glad that I saw the movie again, although not because of the movie itself. It turned out to be a fascinating experience in observing how cinema affects our perception of time. See, I used the clock on my phone, and discovered that I was completely wrong about how long certain things took. For instance, I thought that Batman got broken like a third of the way into the movie. Turns out it was over halfway through! And the big pit montage sequence? In my mind, it had ballooned to a quarter of the story. The actual space it takes up? Fifteen minutes (to be clear: that's from when Batman gets out of his bed to when he gets out of the pit. the total time he's in the pit is like a half an hour). Crazy.

So what does that mean? Half the movie was so light that it compressed in my mind. The rest of it looms larger because that's when things that are actually important are happening. And it's all so rushed because it's given less space than the meaningless stuff like Daggett. That's how whacked out the structure of this film is.

It was also clear this time around how much Hardy is the only one who truly understands what kind of movie he's in here, and I get what he meant when he said working on it was like "working at Starbucks" or whatever it was. He's soooooooooooooooo delightful. Before, only half of Bane's lines made me laugh. This time, it was every single thing he said. And thanks to the image that's now my avatar, every time he put his hands on his coat, I could only picture him strutting about with a southern accent, and I laughed and laughed even more. Hathaway is still the best thing in the movie, but Hardy makes the most of his lame role.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

You can't.  Kill.  Fucking.  Batman.  That shit would have been WAAAAAAY too dark.  Bruce Wayne, THIS Bruce, deserves his happy ending at a little cafe in Florence.  He deserves to smile god damn it.
 

I had been looking forward to Bruce getting over his parents' death and enjoying a life of his own ever since the series started. In The Dark Knight Batman says, "Sometimes people deserve to have their faith rewarded." and in Rises, he learns that applies not just to the people of Gotham but also to himself. I think 30+ years of grief, despair, and oaths gives Bruce Wayne a reason to be happy for once.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaz 

  Mike Stoklasa of Red Letter Media fame said  he didn't have a problem with Bruce climbing out of the prison and then just appearing back in Gotham. His logic is that it works emotionally. The movie is about Batman rising. Seeing Bruce climb out of the pit is important to his character's arc; so he can look past Bruce just showing up in the nick of time. Jay and him both gave TDKR high marks.

HIS PREQUEL VIDEOS ARE NOW NULL AND VOID!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd 

One little detail I loved: any other man would've been startled by the bats, would've probably stumbled and fell. Not Bruce though. In a way, fate's been preparing him his whole life to climb out of that pit. 

When the bats started flying around, I was REALLY hoping we would be getting a live-action version of THIS scene:

(go to 3:52)

"The night is always darkest before the dawn. And I promise you, the dawn is coming."

That, to me, is the ending of Rises. At the end of the day, I will nine times out of ten prefer endings that at least end with a ray of hope instead of pure nihilism (I think Freeman's voiceover at the end of Seven, for example, helps it not be a COMPLETE fucking downer, yet is also still true to the story). Bruce may not have died, but you know what? He still risked everything by coming back. He still saved the city. After taking on the burdens of everything that's happened in the previous two movies, I'd say he deserves a little happiness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

Upthread Daggett was rolled on for being "meaningless". I can hardly imagine someone completely missing what his function is in the film. It's laid out rather succinctly, even if the machinations therein aren't wholly plausible. Look back at characters like Lao and Reese and what Daggett represents is blindingly obvious.

Yup. The coward character finally stands up for what is right. It wasn't Batman/Bruce Wayne that inspired him to do it, rather it was Gordon, but as Batman says, a hero can be someone who simply lays a coat over a grieving child. The film is full of heroes.

Batman dying at the end would not have been pure nihilism, though. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 

Yup. The coward character finally stands up for what is right. It wasn't Batman/Bruce Wayne that inspired him to do it, rather it was Gordon, but as Batman says, a hero can be someone who simply lays a coat over a grieving child. The film is full of heroes.

You're confusing Daggett with Foley.  Daggett is the douche who Bane kills, and the guy JacknifeJohnny is referencing.  Foley is the cop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

You're confusing Daggett with Foley.  Daggett is the douche who Bane kills, and the guy JacknifeJohnny is referencing.  Foley is the cop.

Oh, shit... you're right lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

Batman dying at the end would not have been pure nihilism, though. 

The phrasing there was more to illustrate my particular mindset regarding this sort of thing, but you are correct. Yet I honestly think the tears of happiness I experienced at Bruce's actual ending are more powerful than my tears of sorrow at his death might have been.

Yeah, total emotional response, but you know what? Not gonna apologize for it. Incidentally, want to thank you for providing some of the best, well-measured thoughts on the film. Your clear-headed nature is appreciated as always.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

When the bats started flying around, I was REALLY hoping we would be getting a live-action version of THIS scene:

(go to 3:52)

 

Great, now I'm imagining that scene with the Bane chant. 

It would make it a thousand times better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syd 

Great, now I'm imagining that scene with the Bane chant. 

Hahahahahaha.  Oh my god, I can't get this out of my head.

Someone. Make this real. Right. Now.

It's only fair that nooj is the one who does it, or finds someone else to.  HE BROUGHT IT UP.  He has a responsibility now.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but has anyone suggested that the cause of Gordon's divorce was that he had a beer and cheated on his wife?

If Avengers can have their precious little in-between shorts like the Consultant, surely Dark Knight Rises can have the in-between Gordon years of having a beer and cheating on his wife.

That revelation was something I really liked: no way the Gordon household would be all sunshine and smiles after the Two-Face event.

In all seriousness, Gordon was clearly guilt ridden about having to lie about what happened that night. It made sense that could have led to divorce. Batman isn't the only one who raises in this movie.

3:22

Wow, I guess I completely missed Gordon saying he was divorced. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 

Wow, I guess I completely missed Gordon saying he was divorced. 

At the Dent event, there's a moment where Foley says that Gordon's wife took the kids and went to Cleveland.

Joseph... I don't get what I'm supposed to see in that Lion King clip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whiteboy Jones 

Someone. Make this real. Right. Now.

I'll show you that these joke ideas are much funnier on paper than in the minimal effort I'm willing to put into executing them.

I ruin things.  That's what I do.

Here lies CHUD's reckoning.

I think Joseph was pointing out that the voice of the crushed animal (the bird?) at the end sort of sounds like Bane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Spider 

 

The phrasing there was more to illustrate my particular mindset regarding this sort of thing, but you are correct. Yet I honestly think the tears of happiness I experienced at Bruce's actual ending are more powerful than my tears of sorrow at his death might have been.

 

Yeah, total emotional response, but you know what? Not gonna apologize for it. Incidentally, want to thank you for providing some of the best, well-measured thoughts on the film. Your clear-headed nature is appreciated as always.

Nice of you to say.  I'm proud of the thread as a whole for mostly addressing opposing views civilly rather than just ranting about what idiots "the haters" and "the fanboys" are.  No property brings out the worst in the internet quite like Nolan's Batman, but you'd almost think there were actual adults in here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schwartz 

 

Nice of you to say.  I'm proud of the thread as a whole for mostly addressing opposing views civilly rather than just ranting about what idiots "the haters" and "the fanboys" are.  No property brings out the worst in the internet quite like Nolan's Batman, but you'd almost think there were actual adults in here.

"Well I suppose we can settle this like men... isn't that right, Mr. Poopy Pants?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

At the Dent event, there's a moment where Foley says that Gordon's wife took the kids and went to Cleveland.

1. "Dent Event." Teehee!

2. Was it then? I thought it was later. Regardless, I sounded like separation to me, not divorce, but that was based merely on no one actually saying they're divorced. Either way, though, yeah, Gordon's homelife was getting wrecked by the lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie 

 

Deathly Hallows Part II wasn't nominated?

Oops. Could have sworn it was. I guess all the fans saying it has to be nominated since they loved it so much and it finished a 7 film series strong made me believe that it was. Bummer for them.

How do you think "Rises" is playing with audiences? On a purely anecdotal basis, everyone I've spoken to who has seen it (about 30 or so) liked it, some (mostly girls) much more than TDK - which surprised me a bit - and around half say they are going to see it again, in some cases almost compulsively. To a man/woman they've singled out the second half, and particularly the ending, for praise and that seems to be the main reason they want to see it again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

1. "Dent Event." Teehee!

 

2. Was it then? I thought it was later. Regardless, I sounded like separation to me, not divorce, but that was based merely on no one actually saying they're divorced. Either way, though, yeah, Gordon's homelife was getting wrecked by the lie.

It was then, right after the congressman takes the meatballs from Selina and right before the whole "the mayor's gonna dump him in the spring" bit.  And it could be read as divorce or separation.  Either way, the missus peaced out.  It's an interesting parallel to Alfred getting the fuck out of dodge, too.  I imagine Mr. and Mrs. Gordon had a come-to-Jesus moment when they got home after TDK, much as Alfred and Bruce do here.

Not a big fan of Bale. But i liked his version of Batman here. He's less of a hard ass than the one in the comics.

Selina intrigues him (I think) and i like the way he sorta jokes and needles her when they're together.

Truly the most insane mind in the entire series.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhp1608 

How do you think "Rises" is playing with audiences? On a purely anecdotal basis, everyone I've spoken to who has seen it (about 30 or so) liked it, some (mostly girls) much more than TDK - which surprised me a bit - and around half say they are going to see it again, in some cases almost compulsively. To a man/woman they've singled out the second half, and particularly the ending, for praise and that seems to be the main reason they want to see it again.

I took my parents to see it on 70mm IMAX and they both absolutely loved it.  They're usually more of a Tinker Tailor/Annatolia/Midnight In Paris type patrons of the theater, so it bears mentioning.  They found it thrilling, gorgeously shot and acted and were head over heels for Zimmer's score.  My 66 year old mom in particular thought Bale was fantastic. They're both well educated people and none of the supposed narrative lapses online pedants are tirelessly bemoaning bothered them one bit. 

So that's the take from the late 60's MN W.A.S.P. contingent.

Other than that, people I talk to who aren't message board dwelling hardcore movie nerds all seem to love it.

My friends back home all seem to rate this at least on par with TDK, none of whom have ever spend more than a few seconds on a movie website. I haven't seen it yet as I have no clue when it's released in Sri Lanka.

It doesn't surprise me it all that TDKR is playing well with the gen pop. It has an easy to digest 'hero comeback' story and a happy ending that doesn't leave you pondering it the way TDK does. I think it might get a bunch of unexpected nominations. That'll make things even more annoying in the nerd-o-sphere as the haters will whine that it doesn't deserve it and Nolan is a fascist etc, etc. And to be fair, the Batfans will be annoying too. 

The first time I saw it there was hardly a dry eye in the audience when Alfred and Bruce have their tearful falling out. The second time, which was just yesterday, a kid of about 6-7 sitting next to me helped me zero in on the fact that since people already know and love these characters, Nolan and Co. have had at least some of their work done for them, when he squealed "Dad, it's Alfred!" upon Caine's first scene and "She's Catwoman!" during the pearl / print heist. The kid was having a ball and it only reinforces the fact that this "doom and gloom" and "way too serious" shit is exactly that, shit.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

 

Truly the most insane mind in the entire series.

Not shit happens in Cleveland.  She's got the right idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

The first time I saw it there was hardly a dry eye in the audience when Alfred and Bruce have their tearful falling out. The second time, which was just yesterday, a kid of about 6-7 sitting next to me helped me zero in on the fact that since people already know and love these characters, Nolan and Co. have had at least some of their work done for them, when he squealed "Dad, it's Alfred!" upon Caine's first scene and "She's Catwoman!" during the pearl / print heist. The kid was having a ball and it only reinforces the fact that this "doom and gloom" and "way too serious" shit is exactly that, shit.   

The kids behind me LOST THEIR SHIT when Batman appears for the first time during that bike chase.  "YEAH BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!"