THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... - Page 39

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

Holy shit, it's a handful of goofy fucking lines. Let us move on and resume talking about how all superhero movies should be sunny, happy and funny or how lame Bale's voice sounds or how whatever the fuck.

The thing is, I feel this film has the perfect tone for a comic book movie. It's begins fairly light, and there is comedy in the film, the characters just aren't the butt of the joke (i.e. Avengers). And the film only really goes dark during the second act, which it should. The stakes have been raised, and the hero is beaten. Which is why we feel the threat of Bane (Again, unlike the Skrull invasion). Even then, the film ends on a very hopeful note. 

This Avengers hate can GTFO.

It's a film that panders to its audience. I already wrote about that film in its thread, and if you'd like to argue with me, we can talk about it there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

This Avengers hate can GTFO.

The Dark Knight Rises is a better movie than The Avengers...

...bitch!

(Of course, they're two entirely different takes on completely different heroes with different goals and a wildly different tone, so it'd be akin to me saying The Terminator is better than Back to the Future 'cause they both have time travel.)

How does Freeman feel about Amazing Spider-Man hate or Total Recall hate?

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Originally Posted by User_32 


But TDKR hate is cool?

I MAKE IT COOL!

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Originally Posted by User_32 


But TDKR hate is cool?

Duh. You new around here or something?

Just keep hating this movie and I'm good.

Mmm, I have plenty of gooey delicious hate for those two movies as well.

Especially The Amazing Spider-man.

BUT ESPECIALLY the new Total Recall.

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Originally Posted by Shaun H 

Unleashing their new hit single:

WEREZ DA TRIGGRRR

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

 

Unleashing their new hit single:

WEREZ DA TRIGGRRR

This one's for you, mcnooj! 

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Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

This one's for you, mcnooj! 

 

The follow-up to Batman's solo hit... WHERE ARE THEEEYYYYYY???

Pardon the repost!

(Good lord, the guffaws I had during the trigger scene...)

WHEREZ THE DOODLE????  WHERE IZZSCHITTT??? IT'SCH EMBARRASCHING!!!  NO ONE MUSCHT SCHEE IT!!!

Sure, Hans Zimmer did a great job, but we can all agree the movie would have been vastly improved if it featured the music of Mouse Rat. 

Reminds me of:

So, I saw this again today with a friend who hadn't seen it yet and had passes.  We were the only ones there for a 4:30pm screening.  Still a solid flick. 

And I finally, FINALLY caught that one Bane line that had been eluding me.  Right after he says, "I'm Gotham's reckoning", he says something that I could not fucking decipher in my previous two viewings until today: "I'm here to end the borrowed time you've been living on."   It was so funny because right after that line, and my amazement at being able to decode it, my friend turned to me and said, "The fuck did he just say?"  

You know what lines I missed both times I saw the movie?

It's not a Bane line.  It's the scene in which Gordon rants as he tries to justify his actions in TDK to a disappointed Joseph Gordon Levitt.  What's odd is that I only figure out what he said when JGL brings it back up during the ending, when he explains to Gordon why he's quitting the force. 

Can't remember what the line is right now.  Hahahahah

It took me three times to finally catch that line.  The only other Bane line I had trouble with was "I'm on your schedule, Captain."  (I couldn't tell if he said 'I'm on your' or 'I'll honor your.')

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

You know what lines I missed both times I saw the movie?

 

It's not a Bane line.  It's the scene in which Gordon rants as he tries to justify his actions in TDK to a disappointed Joseph Gordon Levitt.  What's odd is that I only figure out what he said when JGL brings it back up during the ending, when he explains to Gordon why he's quitting the force. 

 

Can't remember what the line is right now.  Hahahahah

The stuff about institutions becoming shackles and all that jazz?

That's the ooooone!

When they get round to rebooting Batman, they're going to have a hard time finding someone to top Oldman for Gordon. He's consistently been one of my favourite things about this trilogy. Sure, he may not be as perfect a fit as J.K Simmons was for J. Jonah Jameson but he's not far off when it comes to casting decisions for superhero movies. J. K. Simmons

Cranston did great in the Year One animation.

John C. Reilly. Before Oldman was cast he was my pick for BEGINS.
 

RED LETTER MEDIA looks at Nolan.

I think i agree with a lot of stuff he's saying here. In some films, Plot Holes are forgivable. It's more about the presentation.

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Originally Posted by felix 

RED LETTER MEDIA looks at Nolan.

 

I think i agree with a lot of stuff he's saying here. In some films, Plot Holes are forgivable. It's more about the presentation.

Yeah, I thought it was a nice breakdown. The whole thing's a dance between plot mechanics and an emotional/thematic core. and in any good story the former should match the step the latter leads with. Nolan gets that, but in these times where film criticism has become so codified where it's practically become its own pastime I think there's too many people who constantly need to prove themselves 'smarter' than the films they watch. But by doing so they get fixated with logic, which is only one aspect of effective storytelling.

I was on board with most of what they were saying until the part where they start going on about how Nolan makes "visceral, emotionally effective movies".  I like Nolan, but the big, huge, main thing about him is that his movies are cerebral to an (emotional) fault. 

Also, if you're going to devote part of your review to a discussion of plotholes, make sure the example you use is an actual plothole.  Wayne showed up at the cafe by coincidence?  Really?

This movie was hardly visceral.  If constantly having the subwoofer booming through every scene is how you make a movie visceral?  Sure.

I love Nolan's 'cerebral' tone.  With its sloppy mish-mash of themes and ideas without much connection... this one didn't have the benefits of that 'cerebrality' either.  The movie mostly just felt noisy.

Considering the points through which Red Letter Media trashed on the prequels, I'm surprised he was as kind to TDKR as he was in that review.  But a lot of that has to do with the fact that he's not playing Plinkett in this, I'm sure.

Ooooh oooh ooh...  something I noticed the second time I saw the movie in 70mm IMAX:

So most of the establishing shots of the city are presented in that GLORIOUS format.  But there is one IMAX shot that gave me a chuckle.  It's after Bruce breaks up with Alfred.  The next morning, he wakes up in his bed to the sound of the doorbell.  Just that opening shot of Christian Bale in bed was in the 70mm IMAX format.  It's an establishing shot of Bale's glistening pecs!  And then when he's going, "Alfred?" it goes back to 35mm.

What an odd choice.  I'd like to think that Nolan was just having a bit of fun there.

Is this even still playing?

Seriously, not to derail or to demean the conversation, but does anyone else feel like this came and went about six months ago? It's weird. The hype was huge, and then Aurora happened and damped the hype right down and cast a pall over the event of the opening. Other than the occasional news item coming out of the trial, and the occasional idiot bringing a gun into a DKR showing, this doesn't seem like it's hit the zeitgeist nearly as much as TDK did. Bane definitely hasn't gone over like the Joker did, not that anyone expected him to. The wider conversation became about Aurora, not about the movie itself.

Honestly, I feel that way about most movies.  Big blockbusters, anyway.

While I think Aurora definitely cast a pall over the film and, understandably, the cultural conversation was more about the shooting than a new film. The film is doing well - by any standards, other than perhaps against TDK, AVENGERS and AVATAR, it's doing very well - ubt it's not permeating the collective consciousness the way TDK seemed to do.

Not sure if that's a villain issue or something else.

For my part, I know some of it that the lead up to this film was, IMSNHO, done very, very poorly. The amazingly brilliant viral/ARG campaign for TDK was, for me, a huge part of the anticipation and sense of shared "ownership" of the story. WB seemed a lot more complacent with this one.

I also think the film's refusal to ape TDK's tone and villain confused audiences. While reactions, outside of this thread, have been pretty positive with Joe and Jane Six Packs, I tend to think the film's heavy reliance on knowledge of BEGINS has had a muting effect on awareness, as compared to the nearly standalone TDK.

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Originally Posted by BigMcLargeHuge 

 

The thing is, I feel this film has the perfect tone for a comic book movie. It's begins fairly light, and there is comedy in the film, the characters just aren't the butt of the joke (i.e. Avengers). And the film only really goes dark during the second act, which it should. The stakes have been raised, and the hero is beaten. Which is why we feel the threat of Bane (Again, unlike the Skrull invasion). Even then, the film ends on a very hopeful note. 

Actually, characters very much are the butt of some of the jokes here. What else do you call Bruce's line about "so that's what that feels like" ? Frankly, I loved those elements because they acknowledge the inherent comic book campiness that comes packaged with every superhero movie; they let the movie be what Nolan wants it to be without dampening connection to its roots. Hell, Selina spouts off one-liners even in the last act. She's great, and Hathaway plays her perfectly.

Batman isn't a character known for his sense of humor, but to me the humor here definitely speaks to Nolan embracing the idea of letting a comic book movie be a comic book movie. He still does his Christopher Nolan thing and goes very, very cerebral, and I think there's room in a film for him to do that while also acknowledging that he's making a movie about a man in tights who fights crime. I just think that no matter where his interests lie, he wound up failing in making a totally cohesive and successful movie.

It's been said many times but superhero/comic book movies can come in all shapes and sizes. I don't much care for arguments in favor of The Avengers that start with "this is better because it's fun and comic book movies are fun", much as I don't much care for arguments in favor of TDKR that work to the reverse effect.

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Originally Posted by agracru 

 

 What else do you call Bruce's line about "so that's what that feels like" ?

The true theme of this film is: EMPATHY.

The new status quo: a Batman who doesn't silently leave a conversation like a jerk.

And everyone lived happily ever after!

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

 

The true theme of this film is: EMPATHY.

 

 

The new status quo: a Batman who doesn't silently leave a conversation like a jerk.

 

And everyone lived happily ever after!

"Wow, is that how I've been making people feel over the last decade of having the final word before disappearing quietly into the night? Man, I deserve to be on Gotham's most wanted list."

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Originally Posted by Martin Blank 
 Other than the occasional news item coming out of the trial, and the occasional idiot bringing a gun into a DKR showing, this doesn't seem like it's hit the zeitgeist nearly as much as TDK did. 

No one in the cast died this time around.  And no, I'm not joking.

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

TDKR is perfectly successful, but there's Aurora and no Joker. The latter is the rock star of supervillains irrespective of who plays him. Batman Returns made less than Batman and I would argue that it's not a lesser movie, the major difference is who the villain is *not*. It's not rocket science or proof against the film's quality, but more of a demonstration of one character's hold on the popular imagination. On another subject, I'm trying to decide if I'm shocked that so many people (fanboys specifically) seem to entirely misunderstand the point and ultimate destiny of John Blake. I've read all sorts of ridiculous ideas that miss the point so spectacularly that it's made my head spin.

I think one of their biggest arguments is Blake doesn't know martial arts!

The end isn't the start of his career as Batman but his beginning turn to vigilantism as a way of finding his identity in his world. The fact that Bruce/Batman gave him the way into it is where the comparisons stop. Sure, there are mirrors here and there, but simple ones; they are the usual suspects of how someone turns down a path few rarely follow. From this point on, Blake's journey will be his own and that's the fun part. We don't see it, we imagine it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZW5qyc2g6U&feature=related

I am hoping to get a feature like this for the bluray.

Bane's voice is hilarious I guess he must of spent a good amount

of time in south africa during that coup.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNJVMJH5OhI

"No they expect one of us in the wreckage Brutha..."

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Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny 

On another subject, I'm trying to decide if I'm shocked that so many people (fanboys specifically) seem to entirely misunderstand the point and ultimate destiny of John Blake. I've read all sorts of ridiculous ideas that miss the point so spectacularly that it's made my head spin.

Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm being stupid or dull. My understanding of the ending was that Blake would - or at least could - take on the role of Batman, the city's protector. Not "Robin" or "Nightwing," but to keep the symbol of Batman going, to keep fear in the hearts of criminals, and to inspire the regular citizens. Or is that way off? (Not asking with snark - wondering if that's the take you meant.)

Yeah, I just saw Blake continuing as 'The Batman' within Nolan's take on the 'Batman world.'

With the fact that he isn't trained by the League of Shadows, I thought it would be much cooler to think of Blake actually playing up the 'Great Detective' aspect of the Batman persona.  Particularly since he seems particularly excited to be promoted to that role as a cop.

His special move can be Bullet Ricochet!!!  And then he can continue The Batman's legacy of morally grey killing!

"I didn't kill you, old chum.  The angle of reflection did!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Blank 

Is this even still playing?

 

Seriously, not to derail or to demean the conversation, but does anyone else feel like this came and went about six months ago? It's weird. The hype was huge, and then Aurora happened and damped the hype right down and cast a pall over the event of the opening. Other than the occasional news item coming out of the trial, and the occasional idiot bringing a gun into a DKR showing, this doesn't seem like it's hit the zeitgeist nearly as much as TDK did. Bane definitely hasn't gone over like the Joker did, not that anyone expected him to. The wider conversation became about Aurora, not about the movie itself.

Yeah I agree with all of that. It just kind of came and went. It made a shitload of money in the process though......but then just went. 

Here's a really great discussion from MUBI on RISES and Nolan in general. Worth the read. 

I think in the end it just wasn't as good a movie as The Dark Knight or Inception. It lacked that staying power. The Avengeres had that sort of momentum too, the movie had people talking about it long past release. The only thing I see people talking about with The Dark Knight Rises is others asking if it's still worth seeing.

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Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

Now I'm starting to wonder if I'm being stupid or dull. My understanding of the ending was that Blake would - or at least could - take on the role of Batman, the city's protector. Not "Robin" or "Nightwing," but to keep the symbol of Batman going, to keep fear in the hearts of criminals, and to inspire the regular citizens. Or is that way off? (Not asking with snark - wondering if that's the take you meant.)

Yeah, I got pretty much the same out of it. That Blake's there as a failsafe to take up the mantle if and when Gotham needs him. Whether it's a good thing or bad is fairly moot, and up for interpretation; you could argue that it's whatever Blake makes of it. I think the point that the films ultimately make is that Wayne uses it as an extension of his own guilt over his parents' death, and something he realizes that has ultimately served its purpose (Really, he struggles with this from the point Dent appears on the scene). He reaches the point where he realizes he needs to walk away, and Blake is almost his final gift to Gotham: a future Batman who can fight the battle if it's ever needed.

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Originally Posted by Parker 

Here's a really great discussion from MUBI on RISES and Nolan in general. Worth the read. 

Thanks for this. 

They're really going into one of the huge issues I had with the film: its editing.

And then YES to this:

I liked that section a lot too and agree with what they write about it. I don't think it's the one shot worth mentioning from the whole movie, as I liked a few more, but it adds to the reasons why I think the film is a fascinating, flawed misfire rather than a straight up disaster. 

I'm also glad they dug into the editing. It's such a strangely edited movie, which is particularly odd given that Inception is brilliantly edited. 

In Renn's piece about the possibility of deleted scenes of TDKR, he talked about how the film stepped right on the edge of the IMAX format's runtime limit.  The 70mm IMAX theaters couldn't even show any trailers with the movie (YES!!!) because of it.

I wondered if that runtime cap had anything to do with the approach Nolan took to cutting the movie.  It takes a style of editing that has power in the instances in which it's used.  How much effect can it have when it keeps on happening?

But another part of me concludes that it was pretty intentional... considering the way characters just teleport in from the side of the frame. 

BOOM

"Hi Bruce!"

BOOM

"Hi Batman!"

BOOM

"Yo, Selina."

BOOM

"Hi Dagget."

How special can Batman's ninja-style be when everyone does it???

Oh, speaking of Dagget... here's a photo I took recently that reminded me of a moment:

"Do you FEEL in control?"

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Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

 

Oh, speaking of Dagget... here's a photo I took recently that reminded me of a moment:

 

"Do you FEEL in control?"

That dog looks suitably terrified.