THE DARK KNIGHT RISES Post-release thread..... - Page 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSkyOnMars 

What a horrible, fucking wretched pile of stinking shit this movie was. By the end I was relieved it was fucking over. You can tell that not only did Nolan not have a fucking clue as to what this movie was supposed to be about, it’s clear that he didn’t give a shit. Not only that but after all that fucking BULLSHIT about this being the “finale” they might as have well put up a fucking TO BE CONTINUED… at the end just to give the cocksuckers at Warner. Brothers an open door for a fucking sequel.

 

Where to begin? The incredibly sloppy pacing. The Overabundances of characters that added nothing to the overall story and who could have been cut out to make this ass numbing garbage go a bit faster. No themes, no subtext, FUCKING NOTHING that warranted my time wasted on this fucking trash. What a fucking letdown, especially after what they managed to accomplish with The Dark Knight. This movie is completely fucking redundant.

 

Nolan didn’t have a fucking clue what he wanted this movie to be about. Batman Begins was about FEAR! TDK was about Order, Chaos and Chance which was symbolized with Batman, The Joker and Two-face. TDKR was about putting money into Nolan’s fucking bank account. I’ve complained about BB being to “comic bookish” but TDKR is soo fucking generic it’s unbelievable! After the breakthrough of TDK, Nolan has made a Batman movie with  a plot soo fucking clichéd that it makes the “fear toxin dispersal” of BB seem like fucking Shakspeare. There’s a bad guy, he has a nuke, Batman saves the day, BUT WAIT, is he really dead?!? The femme fatale with a heart of gold. The love interest that’s a back stabber. BLAH BLAH FUCKING BLAH!!!

 

Nolan fucked this in soo many ways it boggles the mind. And to those of you who say “but, but, but, the final 30 minutes are the awesomz!!!” FUCK YOU! There is soo much inconsistent fucking retardation that I don’t know where to begin and those final 30 were fucking snoozville unless you ride a fucking shortbus and haven’t seen that type of conclusion at least a dozen times in your life.

 

8 Years Later - Why did this need to be set that far in the future? Why is Bruce Wayne’s body gimped out? He was only Batman for A YEAR and even though he took a beating, 8 years and the best medicine in the world would have healed him, especially if he hadn’t of been Batman for that time.

 

John Blake – A fucking useless character who was there only to set up sequels with him as Robin. I wanted to see GORDON AND BATMAN in action! Not some fucking rookie cop. Fuck JGL and the horse he rode in on. Oh and I loooove that look on his face when he shoots and kills the MEN WHO INTENDED ON MURDERING HIM as if “no, guns bad, I done wrong!”. You’re not a ninja Blake, stick to the bang bangs you fucking pig!

 

Mathe Modine – Whose characters name I couldn’t even be bothered to look up as he’s yet another fucking useless bitch who takes time away from what’s important.

 

Miranda Tate/ Ra's al Ghul daughter – Fucking useless love interest who was obviously set up as a literal backstabber. Tell me again, she sets up the scenario where she has access to a nuke and wants to destroy Gotham but why exactly didn’t she just set the fucking thing off considering that she had a fucking death wish and was prepared to die to avenge her father. Speaking of which, even with her dead and Batman believed to be gone, what’s stopping the League of Shadows from trying to destroy Gotham again? The League isn’t tied to one man or his fucking family. If they’ve been around for centuries then I’m sure the efforts of a costumed billionaire aren’t going to stop them.

 

Bane – What a piece of shit, even when I could hear him through his fucking gimp mask, which was only about half the time. The character FUCKING SUCKS and all Nolan did was make him a generic thug with a few extra braincells who crushed skulls. Oh and how awesome was it that he basically engineered a takeover of the ENTIRE CITY and conveniently Jim Gordon left a fucking letter of admission about the truth behind Harvey Dent’s death to really rile up the rabble as though it makes any difference to criminals. What fucking difference did that make AT FUCKING ALL?!? They still would have been freed and tore through Gotham. Again, since Miranda Tate wanted to nuke Gotham what was the fucking point of trapping cops in the tunnels and spending months if not YEARS setting up explosives to trap them. You know, for someone portrayed as viciously brutal, I don’t quite understand why Bane would trap all of the city’s cops and not, say, gas them all to fucking death like rats. Talking about gas, I noticed that they didn’t even bother to explain what that fucking mask was for except that he couldn’t breath without it. Except that he could when Ra's al Ghul found him in the prison with a cloth over his mouth. What did the other prisoners do to him? Fuck his piehole soo many times that he couldn’t take in fresh air?!

 

There is just so much stupid fucking shit in this fucking movie!

 

Catwoman – Could have been used well if Nolan wasn’t soo fucking obsessed with “realism” that he sucks the life out of everything. What exactly was her storyline? She was being used to secure Wayne’s fingerprints in exchange for a clean slate by Bane? Got conned and then turned good guy to help Wayne in exchange for the same stupid plot device; some sort of software that can erase your identity, unless it’s been recorded on PAPER I guess?! Catwoman’s moral ambiguity was always the backbone of her character and made her contrast with Batman. That’s her strength. But she was basically a pawn between Bane and Wayne. Oh and how nice that she killed Bane FUCKING DEAD because Batman’s “moral code” prevents him from doing so. Except for when he killed Harvey Dent to save Gordon’s kid. I guess Jimmy’s cumstain was more important than the lives of 12 million people who could have been easily saved had Batman not been a fucking PUSSY!

 

Batman – I know the he’s against murder but considering the fucking scale and scope of the crisis on hand, you’d think he’d make an exception and start wasting motherfuckers when you take into account that Bane’s men have killed who knows how many fucking people not to mention threatened the lives of everyone in the entire city. The thing about war is that morality is a liability because the people who you seek to defeat might not have such high minded ideals about the sanctity of life and wouldn’t think twice about killing you. In this case Batman’s refusal to kill makes him look like a fucking idiot. It’s not heroic, it’s stupid. But at least in the end he didn’t actually have to “sacrifice” anything as he was able to sit at a table half way around the world without being recognized so that he could exchange a meaningful glance with Alfred, his trusty manservant who had been with him since birth and who Bruce had fired because he had burnt the letter Rachel had left for him which woudn't have made any fucking difference. Really, if Wayne had read "Sorry Bruce but Harvey Dent's got a huge cock and licks my dripping wet beaver real good like a child being given an icecream cone on a hot sunny day!" how would it have affected things? He'd still be a miserable little bitch boy billionaire as always. Oh and he didn't seem to have a problem jumping into bed with Miranda the second that he found out that Rachel was a lying whore and wasn't going to wait for him. True love my ASS!!!

 

This terrible movie will sit in the dustbin of history with the other miserable examples of 3^rd Times the Harm alongside X-Men 3, Blade 3 and Spider-man 3. I’m soo fucking pissed right now! That cocksucking limey fuck Nolan had four motherfucking years to make this movie and this was the best that asswipe could do? Too busy jerking off onto his IMAX cameras which should be shoved up his fucking asshole post haste! “IMAX this and IMAX that BLAH BLAH BLAH”, yeah, too bad you didn’t spend as much time working on the fucking script you overrated cunt! What’s clear throughout all of this is that fuckface was less interested in making a Batman movie as he was turning Batman into James Bond. We all know of Nolan’s fixation with Bond but unlike Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, where he managed to merge his interests together by brilliantly using the Batman mythos to convey theme’s and subtext, in the case of The Dark Knight Rises Nolan has not only shit the bed but flooded the whole fucking house with a river of diarrhea, loosening its foundation and sending it floating down the street over the edge of a fucking cliff!

     

Suffice to say I didn’t like this movie.

 

Except for the bitches as this is the first movie Nolan has made where he hasn't cast a single fugly woman in any role.

This is incredible. No one delete this please, thanks

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben W 

For one and a half epic fights between Batman and Bane, Bane's death was so goddamned anticlimactic. It kind of seemed like he died the second Miranda Tate told his backstory.

 

Talia got the death scene that Bane deserved.

Bane dying almost off-screen rubbed me the wrong way. But the thing I found most annoying about the film was Nolan's constant use of the 'Bat'. It's the backbone of way too many of the action setpieces in the film, and it just seems to completely lack momentum. All I could think about during the finale was the thunderous pace of the Armoured Truck/Big Rig chase in the Dark Knight and how the 'Bat' just seemed to be destroying any and all momentum. In fact aside from the two confrontations between Batman and Bane I found almost all the action to be kind of horribly aenemic. 

My audience also burst out laughing when it was revealed that Batman let Gordon and his friends get like fifty foot out onto the ice before he made any overture to save them, all because he was busy setting up his giant bat torch. One guy in my audience actually shouted "wow, what a dick" at that moment. Did love some of the shots though, the first Batman/Bane fight is great and and the wide shot as Bane goes mentally and showers Batman with blows in the second fight is really awesome looking.

Gotta be honest, I had forgotten that Bane even died bullshitting with my friends after our screening.

I did appreciate that Bane essentially put Bruce Wayne into a Rocky IV montage, complete with TV to inspire him, after breaking his back. It's a considerate touch. Also the pit, despite being classed as utterly hellish, was actually kind of chillaxed when Bruce was there. No random violence, a decent physiotherapy service, and really supportive inmates who know just when to start an inspirational chant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FilmNerdJamie 

Gotta be honest, I had forgotten that Bane even died bullshitting with my friends after our screening.

And he deserved so much better than to be reduced to Talia's little bitch.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

And he deserved so much better than to be reduced to Talia's little bitch.

As much as I liked Dark Knight Rises, the handling of Miranda/Talia is one of the big weak points. So much else going on story-wise, her and Bruce got shafted. Took away from what was supposed to be a big "Whhaaaaaaaaaaa?" moment (something Nolan pulled off brilliantly in Begins with the "Ducard is Ra's" reveal). Just "Oh...she's evil...OK" and when the narrative turns to stopping her and the death you referred to, her character hasn't earned such a moment. Unlike Bane.

One day out and I'm already the resident apologist. Yeesh.

Anyway, I liked the resolution of Bane. First, it was clear Bruce was unlikely to beat him in a "fair" fight; the movie went to great pains to show that not only had Batman become arrogant about his crimefighting abilities, he simply wasn't the same man he was when he started his crusade. Without taking away Bane's pain medication, this Batman could not have beaten Bane just using fists and feet. And Talia restored his meds. Selina taking him was exactly what was needed; Batman had already won his own moral victory over Bane, and had to get on to the business of saving Gotham.

And Bane being Talia's bitch is again a callback to how the League works. The actual leader remains hidden or in disguise, and allows a figurehead or other person be seen as the head of the order. Talia making Bane the tip of the spear seems to match Ra's methods very well.

I dunno. I'm thinking the film's bigger challenges or problems might be thematic ones, rather than surface level plot choices. It'll be interesting what a second viewing does for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSkyOnMars 

What a horrible, fucking wretched pile of stinking shit this movie was. By the end I was relieved it was fucking over. You can tell that not only did Nolan not have a fucking clue as to what this movie was supposed to be about, it’s clear that he didn’t give a shit. Not only that but after all that fucking BULLSHIT about this being the “finale” they might as have well put up a fucking TO BE CONTINUED… at the end just to give the cocksuckers at Warner. Brothers an open door for a fucking sequel.

 

Not even going to quote the rest.

THAT'S IT INTERNET.... YOU WIN!!!

I found it kind of odd that the Joker wasn't even mentioned in the movie. I'm sure they were just trying to respect Heath Ledger or something, but the Joker's actions set the stage for Bruce's retirement. Was he still in Gotham, or had he died in Arkham? Come to think of it, where the hell is Arkham? Was it shut down and incorporated into that prison Bane liberated?

It would be interesting to know how the Joker would have been used in this if Ledger never died. 

I'm sure, had Ledger lived, we would have seen a small cameo (I could see Bane releasing all the prisoners but leaving Joker in his cell--too dangerous). As is, I was fine with him not showing up/being mentioned. He was neutralized in Dark Knight, why bring that back up?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker 
 Come to think of it, where the hell is Arkham? Was it shut down and incorporated into that prison Bane liberated?

Arkham is in The Narrows, which was lost at the end of Begins.   That area is never mentioned again in the following two films.

And the closing three minute montage? Fucking aces.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall 

My audience also burst out laughing when it was revealed that Batman let Gordon and his friends get like fifty foot out onto the ice before he made any overture to save them, all because he was busy setting up his giant bat torch.

When I saw the giant bat torch I pictured in my mind Bruce slaving away for four or five hours coating the bridge tower with fuel while the clock was still ticking on a nuclear bomb.  He needs some sort of manager to schedule his time more efficiently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hughJ 

 

When I saw the giant bat torch I pictured in my mind Bruce slaving away for four or five hours coating the bridge tower with fuel while the clock was still ticking on a nuclear bomb.  He needs some sort of manager to schedule his time more efficiently.

As soon as I saw the fire from the flare creeping across a perfectly straight line, I literally began chanting in my head, "Please not The Crow.  PLEASE not The Crow."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spike Marshall 

 

My audience also burst out laughing when it was revealed that Batman let Gordon and his friends get like fifty foot out onto the ice before he made any overture to save them, all because he was busy setting up his giant bat torch. One guy in my audience actually shouted "wow, what a dick" at that moment. Did love some of the shots though, the first Batman/Bane fight is great and and the wide shot as Bane goes mentally and showers Batman with blows in the second fight is really awesome looking.

It's even more dickish since he let them walk that long solely so they'd find the flare and be the ones to light up the giant bat signal, regaining their hope.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarence Boddicker 

I found it kind of odd that the Joker wasn't even mentioned in the movie. I'm sure they were just trying to respect Heath Ledger or something, but the Joker's actions set the stage for Bruce's retirement. Was he still in Gotham, or had he died in Arkham? Come to think of it, where the hell is Arkham? Was it shut down and incorporated into that prison Bane liberated?

 

It would be interesting to know how the Joker would have been used in this if Ledger never died. 

Agreed all around.  In the pre-release thread, there was some consensus that even Bane wouldn't be so arrogant as to let the Joker out. He'd either kill him outright or leave him locked up. Nolan's Joker would never let Bane get between him and Batman. He'd completely screw up whatever plans Bane had while also making Batman's life a deeper living hell.

I do think, though, he should have been at least mentioned. I understand why he wasn't, but....yeah.

I can easily see the role being recast and Blakeman having to deal with an on-the-loose Joker as the first big challenge of his career.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM 

 

Agreed all around.  In the pre-release thread, there was some consensus that even Bane wouldn't be so arrogant as to let the Joker out. He'd either kill him outright or leave him locked up. Nolan's Joker would never let Bane get between him and Batman. He'd completely screw up whatever plans Bane had while also making Batman's life a deeper living hell.

 

I do think, though, he should have been at least mentioned. I understand why he wasn't, but....yeah.

 

I can easily see the role being recast and Blakeman having to deal with an on-the-loose Joker as the first big challenge of his career.

You are all assuming that The Joker is even being imprisoned in Gotham.  Arkham was rendered unusable by the end of Begins, and it's not mentioned again, so for all we know, it's still a mess.  He might be imprisoned out of town.  You don't always end up in prison in the same place that you commit the crime.  Bernie Madoff was tried in NYC and is in prison in NC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

I heard the difference from his very first line.  I could understand 99% of everything Bane said.  There was still a line here or there that I missed, but I think that was the fault of the sound mix.  When the focus is on him talking rather than action happening while he's talking, I could hear him clear as a bell.

Almost all the comments from people leaving the theater today were about not being able to understand Bane.   The overdubbed/polished/fixed dialogue was very obvious,  but I still had trouble with maybe 20% of his lines.

And what was the point of the useless Juno Temple character?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainbowtrout 

Almost all the comments from people leaving the theater today were about not being able to understand Bane.   The overdubbed/polished/fixed dialogue was very obvious,  but I still had trouble with maybe 20% of his lines.

 

And what was the point of the useless Juno Temple character?

Did you see it in IMAX?  Maybe my ridiculous sound system helped me out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

Did you see it in IMAX?  Maybe my ridiculous sound system helped me out.

The sound system was very loud, but I'm not sure if that means it was good.  It was striking how sometimes Bane's voice was clear as a bell in an obvious remix, and then would be impossible to understand a minute later.

I'm going to see the film again at a different theater.  Maybe a different sound system will help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rainbowtrout 

And what was the point of the useless Juno Temple character?

Maybe to demonstrate that Selina had no problem with severing relationships and leaving people to die?  That's the only thing I can think of because she just kinda disappears.

She exists to say the line, "...and now it's everyone's house."

She's there for the lesbian subtext. Which kinda gets thrown away in the last shot, but whatever. 

Why go by "Miranda"?  I mean, I can see dropping the "al Ghul" surname, but how does calling yourself "Talia" reveal your true identity to anyone in Gotham?  Oh, that's why, to set up a Shamaylan-like twist, to shock the fanbois (who figured it out as soon as the role was cast months ago).
 

Sometime around Batman teleporting from Morrocco to Gotham City and then deciding the best way to save millions engangered by an A-bomb is to engage a dude that whipped his ass in another fistfight, I realized the best thing going for this movie is that surely it will result in a Mr. Plinkett review to rival "The Phantom Menace".  It's another Pirates 3--saw that at the midnight premiere at Disney World--everyone but me ate it up.  Six months later, begrudging admission from all of them that the film has a few really great set pieces that just get lost in an overly long, nonsensical plot.  I expect the same to happen here.

Bigger question about Talia: why does she sleep with Wayne? 

I'm really conflicted about the movie.

I hated the first forty-five minutes, mostly because every line of dialogue felt like it was dialed up to 11. It was the NO MORE DEAD COPS! of Batman movies. Nolan took some of the on the nose and amplified themes and dialogue and just made it...bigger, badder and worse. The speeches. Oh, the speeches and clunky exposition and THEMES being shoved down your throat (not to mention the heavy foreshadowing; did anyone not think that Alfred's wish to see Wayne in the restaurant wasn't going to payoff somehow)?

But then a strange thing happened; at about an hour again, I began to admire it for how bonkers it was, warts and all. The plot holes never bothered me in The Dark Knight because I got wrapped up in the wonder of it all. It awed me. That didn't happen here, but I was still impressed with just how willing Nolan was to nuke his own story and common sense for just raising the stakes to a level of purse insanity. It's definitely a "BIG" Batman movie, just far from the best.

I like it better than Begins, but it's not anywhere as good as The Dark Knight Rises. The one theme I liked was how Wayne and Gordon's (and Alfred's, really) lie had consequences and that they both had to suffer and be reborn in order to correct that mistakes. But other than that and Dent/Rachel's death, The Dark Knight feels like it barely has anything to do with this movie, which seemed really strange to me. 

I'm still not really sure I can say I liked it yet. I think there's a lot in the trilogy that I admire, but there's too much dumb shit in the first and the second that I just don't care about. So all in all, it's a bit of a wash. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parker 

Bigger question about Talia: why does she sleep with Wayne? 

Hate sex is hot.

Although some of Nolan's plot turns didn't quite work, I think the greatest shame of this movie was (as I feared) Bane's voice. Clearly a lot was done to make it as intelligible as possible, but that goddamn mask was a handicap that no sound acrobatics could completely overcome. I think this is where Nolan's obsession with plausible real world explanations for everything bites him in the ass most. Ebert went as far as to say his mask robs him of any personality, and while I think that's a bit of an excessive criticism, it's apt to a point. 

I could see that at various points (particularly during his speech about Harvey Dent) Hardy had some interesting, even eloquent dialog. I could also see him trying to give an intense and engaging performance, but he was undermined at every turn by that cumbersome mask garbling every other word. He still managed to be very entertaining to watch at times, but his mask/sound mix didn't help. 

It seemed to be designed that way mostly so Nolan could have the dialog about how Bane needs it to pump anti-pain meds into it because of the beating he took protecting Talia. Yeah, yeah, it's all well and good on the plausibility scale, but I don't think giving the mask a believable function is worth sacrificing the audience's ability to hear intriguing dialog that would make the villain more compelling and make an actor's performance more effective.

I was iffy about the mask from the start and people said I was just being a whiny fanboy (I admit, I kinda was) and it had to be changed because he would look fucking ridiculous in the Luchador or Pulp Fiction gimp masks he wore on "Batman: The Animated Series". But at least with those you wouldn't have had trouble hearing him sometimes. They exposed the mouth. The fact that he frequently spoke in a flowery British accent was also problematic as it undercut the seriousness of some of his words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

Hate sex is hot.

Possibly, but in a Nolan movie hate sex = lame after hours Showtime sex. 

Also, others have mentioned it here and Lauren mentioned it on Facebook: this was basically the Rocky of Batman movies. 

P.S. To the person who said they were hoping Michael Caine would just look up and smile without us seeing what he sees at the end, I object to your suggestion with a hearty FUCK NO. I was totally expecting that to happen and was terrified that it might. 

Caught a late matinee in a theater maybe 1/3 full. I'd rate this as 2nd behind Dark Knight with Begins as the 3rd best in the Nolan trilogy.

I thought the acting was great all across the board here, with Bale being the best and most surprising. Going into the film I was all "Batman would NEVER retire!" but Nolan and Bale sell it. Bruce Wayne/Batman made a conscious decision to support Harvey Dent 8 years ago, support him to the extent of making Batman the "fall guy" for Two Face's murders. And it works to the extent that Gordon becomes Commissioner and cleans house, and the Dent Act ensures that organized crime is kept off the street (which is an interesting assumption on Nolan's part: that it was the presence of Crime "Master minds" that permeated Gotham with corruption from top to bottom of society). So there is no need for Batman as Gotham has leadership with a spine (Gordon really, with Mayor Eyeliner riding his coattails for 8 years).

And Bale sells Bruce Wayne as a man adrift. He wanted to act as a symbol for Gotham to fight crime, found a better "legit" symbol in Harvey Dent. If he continued as Batman he'd undermine that symbol, since Batman was now regarded as a criminal himself. Bale shows Bruce Wayne's vulnerability and neediness (NOT Emo!). He's let his guard down. And Talia Al Ghul sees that, takes advantage of it, and moves right in. But without Batman Wayne has no purpose. You can see how as soon as Bruce gets interested in Catwoman his voice gets stronger and more focused, and Alfred recognizes it.

Thought Hardy did a good job overall, but man that voice remix: in my theater the soundtrack blasted over much of the dialog, but everytime Bane opened his mouth IT WAS PRETTY GODDAMN LOUD!

Hathaway was MVP of the film, but I also like how the character was written.

Nolan references the fact that many criminals become what they are due to circumstance, while others are simply evil by nature, and it's the later that Batman deals with. And that is also a call back to BB, where Bruce Wayne becomes a thief to see what the "criminal" mindset is, only to realize quickly that life is more complicated than he thought. He pushes Selina to "better herself" as a way of proving that his theory of people's better natures is correct. Same with the people in the Ferries in TDK. Wayne has a faith in people's goodness that is rewarded in the films.

As many people have commented, in terms of plot this film is sloppy, sloppy, sloppy. A gang of Terrorists break into and "hijack" the Stock Exchange, and no one questions all the trades made that day? No one is even suspicious? Oh and Alfred does a Google search (I guess) and learns that Bane had worked for Daggat (nice BSG reference!) to overthrow an African regime, but NO ONE (other than Alfred) connects that Bane with the Bane who hijacks the Stock Exchange and oh look, a bunch of trades happen the same day and Daggat benefits! hmmmmmmm

I was shocked that they went full "KnightFall", except then they didn't. We SEE Bane break Batman's back, but then some amateur Chiropractor spies one popped Vertebrae, gives it a quick punch (!)   (Kids, do NOT try that at home!), and Bruce is just fine?! (I guess one could argue the Batsuit someone protected Wayne but maaaaannnn).

The biggest criticism I have of the Nolan Batfilms remains: I never ever get the sense that Gotham is particularly rotten. Not like say, Baltimore as depicted in the Wire. Burton's Gotham, I totally get. That city would breed monsters. Nolans' Gotham seems like a nice clean city but then Joker happens.

I'm just struggling to understand the logic of Bane's/Talia's evil master-plan.  I mean, I really enjoyed the movie and was able to just ignore it at the time, but repeat viewings may not be as kind.  Seriously did I miss something?  Was there ever a reason given for the months long delay of setting off the bomb?

Sadly, because I'd rather see "The Adventures of vaguely lesbian Catwoman" instead of another round of po-faced Batman.

And yes this movie is basically a Rocky movie, even down to the montage.

It was because Bane wanted the people of Gotham to feel hope before he crushed them; however, I don't see how laying siege to Gotham, setting free 1,000 criminals, blowing up a football stadium, and murdering rich people inspired hope or liberation. I still can't believe that much of the narrative made it past the treatment stage. Such amateurish, opaque writing.

I'm not a huge fan of these films, but I am a huge Batman fan, and I wanted to see the series end well, but it seems Nolan had no clue where this one was going. There are things I remember from Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, those films aren't perfect in any sense, but they pop and leave indelible impressions. I got none of that from this -- it's completely forgettable. It's such a shame that the backbone of these movies -- Caine and Oldman have nothing to do. Alfred's scenes consist of bellowing heavy-handed pieces of exposition while tactfully giving away the ending.

The League of Shadows plan is absolutely insane. Which is probably why I enjoy that part a little.

It's like all of a sudden they realize how wonderfully silly Batman's universe is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cylon Baby 
 Daggat (nice BSG reference!)

Daggett. And it's more a reference to Roland Daggett, who was responsible for the creation of Clayface in Batman: The Animated Series, and beyond that was a super-corrupt industrialist who would use whatever means he thought were necessary to get ahead in business, such as using pre-Clayface Matt Hagen to frame Bruce Wayne for the attempted murder of Lucius Fox.

Despite my complaining in the Spiderman 3 vs ASM thread about Sandman, I would kill for a Batman Clayface movie. The technology is here! Honestly, if they beefed up the Animated series two parter script for a film, I would be sold.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarleyQuinn22 

 

ETA: the fuck was up with the Man of Steel trailer using music from Gandalf's death scene in Fellowship?!

Zach Snyder knowing that it'll make people sad because he can't actually pull off any sort of emotional weight with imagery or dialogue?

Just got back. It was definitely "fun," but kinda nonsensical. It felt a lot more like Batman Begins than Dark Knight (although it clearly wants to be as "important" as Dark Knight), but once it builds up its head of steam, it was a blast. It just had a silly James Bond-y plot, so the themes of the film just didn't resonate like its predecessor.

Thought Anne Hathaway was pretty great. I may still prefer Pfeiffer's Catwoman from Batman Returns, but this film did a much better job portraying the character of Selina Kyle/Catwoman.

Alfred leaving Bruce early on really pissed me off, though, and felt completely out of character. It feels like something the writers needed him to do, so that Bruce could have  a more dramatic character arc; it was not something true to Alfred's character.

Bane felt like a bit of a wasted opportunity, although his hand-to-hand fights with Batman were pretty intense. When he ended up being Talia's muscle, he became instantly uninteresting to me, and I barely cared that he died...unfortunately, I don't think he'll stick with me the way the Joker did from the previous film.

Non-movie related, there were about a dozen cop cars parked around the theater, and several policemen on foot patrolling the area. It lent a bit of an ominous air to the screening. Anybody else experience this today?

Overall, an enjoyable film, but not without its flaws.

Ok, going to dump my thoughts before I read the last few spoilery pages and start to contribute in a more meaningful way.  Naturally as it's opening night, I will be putting in some spoilers.

I think I was properly prepared for this movie, as I expected the first two acts to be good/dumb/problematic, and I found enough to be engaged and enjoy the goings on.  Unfortunately this movie is kind of proof positive that Heath Ledger carried The Dark Knight largely on his shoulders.  I guess that's a good way to start talking about the villains...

Bane.  This is such an interesting case.  They cast Tom Hardy(my second choice behind Dwayne Johnson) a VERY talented very intimidating and scary actor to play a character that is hugely physical.  As he's written on paper Bane is actually, unfortunately, kind of boring.  He's got fanatical followers, which is cool, but he never does much more than be big and scary.  Sure he chokes people to death and snaps necks, but a bad guy snapping somebody's neck is borderline stupid cliche for bad guys.  There was nothing shocking or daring or exciting about Bane, and although Tom Hardy does his DAMNED BEST to act around that face and performance constricting mask, the writing is not there to support him.  In fact his best moments are largely ruined by the trailers and the prologue, such as "Once Gotham is ashes, you have my permission to die.", or advancing on a scared and enraged Batman.

All the radical changes to Bane, what he is, his mask, the fucking Sean Connery/Walrus VOICE...  All such interesting changes and choices, I was hoping the character of Bane would follow suit and be daring and magnetic and demand my attention in the same kind of incredibly charasmatic ways that Ledgers Joker did, but in his own unique way.  The script never allows Bane to be that character, he's under written ESPECIALLY considering that they knew this was following such an incredible villainous performance.  Also, the dubbing.  It was obvious and sounded bad compared to the on location prologue stuff, which at least sounded natural if incredibly muffled.  At times, the dubb didn't match up with the performance on screen I feel, and it only hurt the performance, if only slightly.  Also, his death was RIDICULOUS.  I was shocked talking to my friends after when I realized being shot was Bane's exit from the movie after being such a major big bad.  I know Talia leaving is his emotional high, but this guy has been a HUGE factor in this movie!  You can't just sweep him under the rug!

The fight scenes.  This has never been Nolans strong suit, but even The Dark Knight had that semi truck chase, and sadly nothing in this movie comes even close to being as big or interesting or exciting.  Since the Knightfall moment had to be in this script, I was hoping they would bring in somebody to do a big well choreographed Fist of Legend style BRAWL.  Sadly, the fist fights are just kind of meh, which is not good enough for a blockbuster of this scale.  You need Wolverine vs Lady Deathstrike.  You need to knock the audiences hair back dammit!

Talia.  I was SOOOOO worried that Bane was actually going to be Ra's son.   As soon as Talia revealed herself though, and the whole story of the child fell into place I kind of loved it.  The reveal of Hardy as Talia's protectector, and the lone shot of Hardy's actual face is proof of what a great actor can do when a mask doesn't cover his entire face.  Although it was hilarious that Talia was horribly killed and Gordon was completed FINE in that crash. 

Selina.  PERFECT.  She NAILED the lazy sexy drawwwwl of Catwoman, and she's a joy every time she's on screen.  Her chemistry with Bale was wonderful.  I found myself wanting to see more of her instead of being excited when I see Bane like I figured I would be.  Also, it makes me incredibly happy to realize that Bruce's realization of Alfred's dream is for Bruce to lounge on the beach with Selina for the rest of his life.  If there's ever a parting gift that could make being The Batman worth it for all those years, it's ending up with Ms. Kyle.

That's probably a big enough post for now.  More thoughts as I stew on it.

So is Bruce just going to retire. Or is he going to train that kid after this? The film didn't exactly give us a clear answer about that.

Thought Anne Hathaway was just perfect as Selina. Sexy and dangerous all at the same time.

I am again convinced TDKR is the new PROMETHEUS. It might be too soon for this - I have no idea what this film will be like viewed at home when it comes out on blu - but while I see the problems, the film still works for me. Similar to the PROMETHEUS discussions, I actually see a lot of thematic consistency here, and I see a war movie as the means to conclude the story of Bruce Wayne as Batman. I do think the film has some problems, but I also think some of the criticisms I'm reading boil down to disagreements on Nolan's version of Wayne/Batman (people not buying 8 years as a recluse, for instance) rather than "mistakes" or errors on the part of the film.

Re: Talia: we're being a little myopic, I think. Yes, the Batman and nerd community figured out very quickly Miranda wasn't Miranda. But you have to remember that most of the moviegoing public doesn't have the faintest fucking idea who Talia Al Ghul is. And despite the spy photos that emerged, we have to go with the text of the film as given, rather than bringing what we know from amateur photos taken of the production. And the film very clearly sets Miranda up as Talia. Her dialogue to Bruce at the ball is laced with League keywords; her word choices are very deliberate, and build on the existing text of Nolan's films (if you watched BEGINS within a few days before seeing TDKR and wer paying attention, Talia's speech should have been ringing bells like crazy). So it wasn't an out of nowhere twist at the end of the film; Nolan basically tells you up front Miranda ain't what she seems. And, as I and someone else pointed out, Talia delivers what she hopes is the fatal knife thrust that strongly echoes what Ra's says to Bruce in the climax of BEGINS. That, to me, is very good writing to close out a series.

Now, that doesn't solve the problem of figuring out why she slept with Wayne (Harley's wisdom aside); nor does it address the problem of Talia not really being essential for the film. You could remove her character, shift her lines and actions to other characters, and the film remains intact. That's not good writing.

I am really looking forward to seeing the film again tonight and seeing what stands out on a second viewing.

SO MUCH THIS.  Soft reboot it, a kind of Bourne Legacy if you will!

LOVED IT!

So damn fine I leave the nits where they are, unpicked. In the scheme of things, relative to everything this movie rules at, they're not big enough to matter to me, so, fuck 'em.

I haven't read this thread or any other reviews yet but for right now I'm so effing pumped I'm here doing this. For you guys. For love.

That's all.

Except, for the record, I don't know any of the mythology behind Batman beyond what's in the films and TV shows. I like him, I'm just not nerdgay for him.

As for Nolan it goes something like this -

Memento 9/10

Batman Begins 7/10

The Prestige 6/10

The Dark Knight 7/10

Inception 8/10

THE DARK KNIGHT RISES 10/10

Wow.  Your scoring of The Dark Knight vs this movie confuses and scares me.

It's interesting that people are mentioning Rocky.  In the final Batman vs Bane fight, it's very similar in style, pace and outcome of the final fight of Rocky vs Clubber Lang in Rocky III.  When Bane has his mouthpiece hit and goes crazy and starts swinging wildly and missing while Batman lands counterpunches,  I could almost hear Stu Nahan and Bill Baldwin announcing.