CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › LINCOLN - Pre-Release
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

LINCOLN - Pre-Release

post #1 of 234
7/18/12 at 9:27am
Thread Starter 

Steven Spielberg's Lincoln is hitting limited theaters on November 9 and expanding wider on November 16. With a master behind the camera and the incredible cast, could this be the first film worthy of the man it's based on? Has there ever been a decent movie based on Lincoln?

Reply
post #2 of 234
7/18/12 at 9:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Steven Spielberg's Lincoln is hitting limited theaters on November 9 and expanding wider on November 16. With a master behind the camera and the incredible cast, could this be the first film worthy of the man it's based on? Has there ever been a decent movie based on Lincoln?

MV5BMTg5NDc4NTE4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzY4MTkzMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR5,0,214,317_.jpg

 

I also can't wait for this. I fully expect DDL to be extraordinary.

Reply
post #3 of 234
7/18/12 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by User_32 View Post

Steven Spielberg's Lincoln is hitting limited theaters on November 9 and expanding wider on November 16. With a master behind the camera and the incredible cast, could this be the first film worthy of the man it's based on? Has there ever been a decent movie based on Lincoln?

 

423447-dead_presidents__01____8_super.jpg

Reply
post #4 of 234
7/18/12 at 9:47am
What I want is for Tarantino and Spielberg to get into a pissing match over who can give Walt Goggins the most screen time this year.
Reply
post #5 of 234
7/18/12 at 9:48am

Is this one about werewolves?

Reply
post #6 of 234
7/18/12 at 10:12am
Thread Starter 

How could I forget Bill & Ted!!

 

I haven't seen Young Mr. Lincoln but I'll have to rectify that soon.

Reply
post #7 of 234
7/18/12 at 10:46am

I'd hope for some degree of complexity between Spielberg and Danial Day Lewis, but on the other hand is this going to be a hagiography? I read on Wikipedia that there has been some criticism of his attitudes on race, but has there been substantial, lasting revisionism of Lincoln? I get the impression - based almost entirely on ignorance and from several thousand miles away - that he's pretty much regarded as a saint.

 

ETA that came over as perjorative. I'm not interested in vilification for its own sake, just curious...

Reply
post #8 of 234
7/18/12 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

MV5BMTg5NDc4NTE4MF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwMzY4MTkzMQ@@._V1._SY317_CR5,0,214,317_.jpg

 

I also can't wait for this. I fully expect DDL to be extraordinary.

 

FYI, Apparently there's a new movie being produced (by Malick) about Lincoln's youth, called Green Blade Rising.

Reply
post #9 of 234
7/18/12 at 11:12am

jhp, that depends on whether you consider a hagiography for Lincoln to be falsely applied?

 

If an American ever deserved one, it is probably this man.

 

I've read quite a bit on Lincoln, and I feel the time and manner of his death (assassinated at the end of the most painful four years the United States ever faced) sainted him before proper historical analysis could have been conducted.  That said, no American has been written about as much as Abraham Lincoln, so he has been "vetted" as thoroughly as any politician in history.  The results: he is pretty much a saint, if you calculate his successes versus his challenges.

 

The criticisms on his views of race are largely bullshit, in my humble opinion.  They tend to be of the "hindsight is 20/20" variety, applying modern sensibilities or presuming the extremists (abolitionists) of his time represented the mainstream center.  What is special about Lincoln is that his views evolved and, ultimately, were transformative in nature.  If he had tried to free the slaves sooner, the South would have gained in strength and may have won the war.  If he had waited much longer, then the push to make it happen may not have been tied to the outcome of the war (and therefore may have been stunted).  Timing is everything.  Those criticisms must come from a place of jealousy or stupidity.

 

This has been my most anticipated film for some time.  And I absolutely don't want a hagiography.  The man had his demons and failures, and I want him explored in full, as much as a film and performance can do so.  But it would be impossible to vilify him in any meaningful sense.  Unless you think opportunism in the service of his country (and beliefs) is tantamount to villainy.

 

Full disclosure: I am absolutely biased.  I am a deeply affected patriot, and to my eyes the Civil War best represents our willingness to better ourselves and further our principles, the hard and worst way if necessary.  And Abraham Lincoln was the mechanism to do so.  Other great countries have far more history than the United States, often more art and culture and human study and meaning.  Many of them will possibly outlive us.  But we produced Abraham Lincoln.

Reply
post #10 of 234
7/18/12 at 11:19am

Young Mr. Lincoln is an outstanding film, by the way.  A bit hagiographical itself, it nonetheless is riveting.

Reply
post #11 of 234
7/18/12 at 11:55am

Are there any good films of Hal Holbrook playing Lincoln? I've heard the man killed in the role onstage. And didn't Phillip Baker Hall do it at one point?

Reply
post #12 of 234
7/30/12 at 10:28am
Thread Starter 

Pretty great story. Can't wait to see Day-Lewis in action from this thing.

 

Quote:

Spielberg wanted U.S. wounded warriors to portray wounded warriors in "Lincoln." Jones played a different role every day. He was a dead Confederate soldier lying in a battlefield one day and an amputee Union soldier in a hospital bed the next. The last day Jones was used in a White House scene, and several other wounded veterans joined him -- one of whom hadn't been briefed about the whole method acting thing. It got interesting.

The warriors were in a small room where Day-Lewis as Lincoln visited them individually, one at a time. Spielberg arranged the scene so that the wounded warriors would get some time on the big screen, and Jones, as the most injured of the group, was positioned on a bed right next to where Lincoln would sit. Day-Lewis was so deep in character that Jones swore Abraham Lincoln shook his hand.
 
...

"We talked for two hours," Jones said. "It was amazing to learn how his past and my profession tied into each other."

Back to method acting: When shooting of the White House scene wrapped, the wounded warrior who hadn't been briefed asked for an autograph. Lincoln -- Day-Lewis -- looked puzzled, and said, "Why, yes. … Yes you can. … " Jones recalled Day-Lewis summoning his assistants to conjure up items to sign. Manila luggage tags and Sharpies arrived.

"He doesn't just write a signature, he writes a full note," Jones said. "It takes a while. He asked for everyone's names."

When it came his turn for some ink, Jones respectfully declined.

"I said to him, 'I just spent two hours getting to know you as a friend. I don't want to leave as a fan. That piece of paper means nothing. Our conversation does,'" Jones said. "He asked for my information. I gave him zip codes and phone numbers -- I made sure if he wanted to get to me he could. He sent me a long, poetic text. His texts changed over time, too, from 'AL' to 'DDL.' It took him three months to get out of being 'The President.'

"The craziest opportunities come at me from the craziest places," Jones continued with a chuckle. "Out of this, I have done some really cool things -- like developing a friendship with Daniel Day-Lewis. Here's the most reclusive actor in the world, and he texts me once a week."

 

 

http://m.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/story?storyId=8205135&wjb

Reply
post #13 of 234
7/30/12 at 11:27am

Wow.

Reply
post #14 of 234
7/30/12 at 11:33am

I'm not sure whether or not to expect something brilliant or something Amistad from this movie, but I sure as fuck can't wait to see Daniel Day Lewis in it.

Reply
post #15 of 234
7/30/12 at 11:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I'm not sure whether or not to expect something brilliant or something Amistad from this movie, but I sure as fuck can't wait to see Daniel Day Lewis in it.

That is about where I am. In some ways it feels like I've been waiting to see him in this role ever since I first saw Gangs of New York. This is my second most anticipated film of the year.

Seems like a perfect family movie for the holidays.
Reply
post #16 of 234
7/30/12 at 11:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I'm not sure whether or not to expect something brilliant or something Amistad from this movie, but I sure as fuck can't wait to see Daniel Day Lewis in it.

 

Yeah, Spielberg these days is so up in the air for me it's kinda sad.  But DDL never disappoints. 

Reply
post #17 of 234
7/30/12 at 10:03pm

As long as the excellent cast each gets some meaty screen time and not just notable window dressing, I'll be pretty happy.   I kind of get the impression Spielberg's heart is into this more than w/ Amistad.  Not to mention Lincoln has been in the pipeline longer than Amistad was, if I remember correctly.

Reply
post #18 of 234
7/31/12 at 4:08am

Hey, I like Amistad.  It's minor Spielberg, and it does threaten to veer into the Zwick-ian sometimes, but Hopkins and Honsou are fantastic, and the Middle Passage sequence is brutally affecting.

Reply
post #19 of 234
7/31/12 at 5:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

Hey, I like Amistad.  It's minor Spielberg, and it does threaten to veer into the Zwick-ian sometimes, but Hopkins and Honsou are fantastic, and the Middle Passage sequence is brutally affecting.

Agreed, and Hopkins' speech at the end is one of the greats.
Reply
post #20 of 234
7/31/12 at 6:48am

"Gives us free!" kills me every single time too.

Reply
post #21 of 234
7/31/12 at 9:16am
Amistad isn't bad! It's just very not great and has a couple moments where it tries too hard to make you weep. I'm hoping Lincoln isn't working on such a broad tonality.
Reply
post #22 of 234
7/31/12 at 11:38am

My biggest gripe with Amistad is that somehow it felt small, like a tv movie. But I haven't seen it in so long my memory of it is hazy. 

Reply
post #23 of 234
7/31/12 at 11:48am

"Amistad"= Three great scenes: The opening uprising, middle section on the ship, Hopkins' final speech ("Who we are, is who we were."), surrounded by a lot of bad, dull scenes. McConaughey's character is especially useless. 

Reply
post #24 of 234
7/31/12 at 12:14pm

I love Amistad, but it's clear it wasn't a passion project for Spielberg.  Producer Debbie Allen basically begged him to direct it and Spielberg was hesitant after criticisms regarding The Color Purple.  I think Lincoln will stoke his passion much more than Amistad did.

Reply
post #25 of 234
7/31/12 at 12:21pm

Spielberg did Amistad because his new studio needed a prestige project. Lincoln's been a project he's been gunning for for nearly a decade; I've no doubt his heart's fully in it.

Reply
post #26 of 234
7/31/12 at 12:46pm

Plus, Amistad was crammed in between Lost World and Saving Private Ryan, as well as concurrent with getting Dreamworks up and running, so Spielberg was at best stretched a little thin.  That Amistad works at all given the number of irons he had in the fire is pretty remarkable.

Reply
post #27 of 234
7/31/12 at 1:21pm

That's encouraging. This looks more than anything like an oscar bid in the King's Speech vein, and I can easily imagine Spielberg's version of that, I'm afraid. There's nothing more boring than a standard prestige biopic, but again, DDL elevates it by himself. It would be nice if Spielberg is fully engaged, as that seems to really dictate the quality of his work lately.

Reply
post #28 of 234
7/31/12 at 4:30pm

Spielberg's been working on this for so long, and working at it so hard, that I think its fair to say he's fully engaged. And what's been reported about the script doesn't look like standard biopic fair. Looks like its focusing on Lincoln as a working politician towards the end of the war, getting the 13th amendment passed, finishing the defeat of the south, working with his cabinet, etc.

Reply
post #29 of 234
7/31/12 at 5:33pm

There's also a marked difference in potential quality using a script written by Tony "Angels in America" Kushner and one written by David "Jumpin Jack Flash" Franzoni.

Reply
post #30 of 234
7/31/12 at 7:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post

There's also a marked difference in potential quality using a script written by Tony "Angels in America" Kushner and one written by David "Jumpin Jack Flash" Franzoni.

 

I cannot tell a lie, whenever I see JJF on the telly I have to watch it.  See what I did there?

Reply
post #31 of 234
8/1/12 at 6:35am

So it seems the front runners for the Oscars will probably be DDL, Phoenix and Hoffman (for The Master).

Reply
post #32 of 234
8/1/12 at 8:49am

Bill Murray might in in there as well for that Roosevelt thing.

Reply
post #33 of 234
8/1/12 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul C View Post

Bill Murray might in in there as well for that Roosevelt thing.

 

Has there ever been an Oscars where two different President portrayals were up against each other?  

Reply
post #34 of 234
8/1/12 at 10:00am

Bill Pullman for Independence Day and Harrison Ford for Air Force One...but that was only in the Oscars of which movie I thought was more badass when I was 12.

Reply
post #35 of 234
8/1/12 at 12:04pm
Not the right thread I guess, but I'm betting Hoffman gets the nod over Phoenix. I believe the term in sports would be he's in a rebuilding season.
Reply
post #36 of 234
8/1/12 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

Not the right thread I guess, but I'm betting Hoffman gets the nod over Phoenix. I believe the term in sports would be he's in a rebuilding season.

 

Hoffman did nothing for me in the trailer.  I'm sure he'll be good, but Phoenix seems to be doing the best work of his career...if he doesn't get a nod (I believe he's the main character, so best actor) I might imagine busting a cap.

Reply
post #37 of 234
8/1/12 at 2:16pm

Yeah Phoenix looks to be the 'big' performance in that movie.

Reply
post #38 of 234
8/1/12 at 2:38pm

I'm not convinced the Master is a big oscar movie. September release and, you know, Hollywood's complicated relationship with scientology. I don't think that says anything of the film's quality, but this could easily end up being along the lines of something like A Serious Man. 

 

Lincoln, on the other hand, is pretty much straight down the middle of the strike zone oscar fare.

Reply
post #39 of 234
8/1/12 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post

I'm not convinced the Master is a big oscar movie. September release and, you know, Hollywood's complicated relationship with scientology. I don't think that says anything of the film's quality, but this could easily end up being along the lines of something like A Serious Man. 

 

A Serious Man was a pretty good but fairly middling effort from the Coens and nobody was talking about it much (and certainly nobody was talking oscar when the trailer hit).  That movie didn't have blatant Oscar worthy written all over it.  The Master does and the performances will trump any Scientology BS...contrary to popular belief, that cult doesn't have a stranglehold over Hollywood, it's actually becoming more and more distasteful to that community (it was basically blamed for Cruise's PR meltdown).  The Academy is not going to ignore this film...and September 21 (wide release) is barely three months before the end of the year.  It will finish its run well into the holidays.

Reply
post #40 of 234
8/1/12 at 3:13pm

"Middling" my ass. A Serious Man is fucking awesome.

Reply
post #41 of 234
8/1/12 at 3:22pm

Indeed it is.  Serious Man is one of my favorite Coen films, as a matter of fact.

Reply
post #42 of 234
8/1/12 at 3:27pm

I have to say, middling is an odd word to describe that film.  Although, I remember reading a few critics who felt like the Coens could do that movie in their sleep.  I completely disagree.  (The Hudsucker Proxy is more the kind of film the brothers could make in their sleep.  I'm not necessarily trying to deride that film, just saying it seemed to be a little less inspired than many of their other efforts, and I felt it was a bit too reliant on shtick.)  If anything, A Serious Man felt really personal.

Reply
post #43 of 234
8/1/12 at 3:35pm

I knew "middling" wouldn't go over well...I wasn't describing the quality of the film as much as it's reception.  Poor word choice.

Reply
post #44 of 234
8/1/12 at 3:39pm

We'll let you off the hook.

 

THIS time!

 

 

FWIW I do agree that The Master's Oscar profile is much greater than ASM's was this early in the game.

Reply
post #45 of 234
8/3/12 at 12:40pm

As great as Warhorse was, I'll be happy to have a human main character this time around.

Reply
post #46 of 234
8/7/12 at 7:32am

1000

 

700

Reply
post #47 of 234
8/7/12 at 7:43am

Wow, DDL looks excellent, as expected. God, cannot wait.

Reply
post #48 of 234
8/7/12 at 12:00pm

I hope there's a trailer soon, because I need to see some glimpses of what is sure to be one of the career-best DDL performances.

Reply
post #49 of 234
9/8/12 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 

Trailer debuts Thursday.

Reply
post #50 of 234
9/8/12 at 8:35am

Thanks for the heads up.

Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Focused Film Discussion
CHUD.com Community › Forums › THE MAIN SEWER › Focused Film Discussion › LINCOLN - Pre-Release