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What's pissed you off in comics lately?

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 

Aside from the headache inducing reboot of DC(Green Lanterns gets to continue it's stories and since that book incorporated a lot of DCU characters in stories like Blackest Night and In Brightest Day, their new histories make no sense. Batman's a little better, but in the new continuity he's only been Batman 5 years, so each of the Robins worked for him, like, ten minutes before dying or promoting themselves to another identity) I really hate that one of the few competent characters in a wheelchair, Oracle, was de-crippled and now all she is is a female Batman. It wasn't even the fact that she was the nost talented and dangerous hacker in the world, working with all the heroes who all greatly respected her, but that she did it from a chair. As a paraplegic, it was nice to see one of my people in a chair who got along just fine without super-powers.

 

(Of course, Comics artists have yet to master the art of drawing a wheelchair that a reasonably fit person would use)

 

Comic Artists, THIS is a wheelchair Oracle would use. I have no idea what that thing is she's been in for the past two decades

 

1000

post #2 of 37
Frank Miller's Holy Terror pissed the hell out of me. It was just so despicably lazy, so much of the art a muddled mess, the ideas behind it childish and incoherent, the story and characters paper thin Batman and Catwoman rip offs (with GIANT SNEAKERS). I found myself really pissed off that he's fallen so far, and could write something so terrible and apparently not even realize what a self parody he's become.
post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

Frank Miller's Holy Terror pissed the hell out of me. It was just so despicably lazy, so much of the art a muddled mess, the ideas behind it childish and incoherent, the story and characters paper thin Batman and Catwoman rip offs (with GIANT SNEAKERS). I found myself really pissed off that he's fallen so far, and could write something so terrible and apparently not even realize what a self parody he's become.

To be fair, he's always done the big feet and shoes thing, but he wasn't always a joke or crazy.

post #4 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes View Post

To be fair, he's always done the big feet and shoes thing, but he wasn't always a joke or crazy.

Yes but the feet thing reached fairly absurd proportions in Holy Terror, it seemed to me. You'd have an indecipherable panel of jumbled action, the only identifiable feature being a GIANT ORANGE SHOE. I just had to wonder how he'd lost touch with his craft to such a degree.
post #5 of 37

The fact that The Walking Dead continues to exist, to massive success and critical acclaim, drawing attention away from good books like, say, Scalped, and that its even shittier TV series thrives while the Locke & Key pilot, which from what I heard was terrific, failed to get picked up.

post #6 of 37

Greg Land continues to be the worst and is once again stopping me from getting a book I normally would have(Kieron Gillen's upcoming Iron Man run). I get angry at the sight of the man's name, a glimpse of his "art" can cause seizures. 

post #7 of 37

Continuity is retarded, but good writers know how to work around it. Grant Morrison is currently writing the run on Batman, and he uses the history of the character to his advantage. 

 

I hope this isn't a "COMICS THESE DAYS" thread. Modern Age comics have there ups and downs just like every other era. Currently, I'm only reading Batman Incorporated and Daredevil, but hopefully there are some good Independent's that pop up soon.

post #8 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMcLargeHuge View Post

Continuity is retarded, but good writers know how to work around it. Grant Morrison is currently writing the run on Batman, and he uses the history of the character to his advantage. 

 

I hope this isn't a "COMICS THESE DAYS" thread. Modern Age comics have there ups and downs just like every other era. Currently, I'm only reading Batman Incorporated and Daredevil, but hopefully there are some good Independent's that pop up soon.

I don't care about continuity, but to use Breaking Bad's term, their reboot was just a half measure. If you're gonna reboot, reboot. GL shouldn't be exempt from it.

 

Justin Jordan's The Strange Talent of Luther Strode is terrific. Almost like Kick-Ass(The book, not the very good movie) with a soul and brain.

post #9 of 37

My issue with the New 52 isn't continuity, it's just how halfassed and desperate the whole measure was. They clearly needed something to grab headlines (I suspect Didio had his bosses breathing down his neck, since DC has been in freefall for a while now) so they pulled this out of their ass a few months before they did it. There was no thought put into it at all, and the fact that it sabotaged a number of great books--even Morrison's Batman, Inc has had to awkwardly work around the new continuity, despite the fact that Batman's vast history and the rich tapestry that is the DCU was a fundamental part of the comic. And that's a book that got a "special pass" or whatever.

 

That's the thing: for all the wrong turns DC has taken over the years, it's made some excellent leaps forward, most of which have now been undone for dubious reasons. The fact that DC thinks anyone wanted Barbara Gordon back as Batgirl when she was infinitely cooler as Oracle, plus she represented disabled people, PLUS there were not one but TWO Batgirls everyone seemed to like better, pretty much says it all about how clueless DC has become. There was a great Comics Alliance editorial a while back about how the rush to return back to the Silver Age isn't just weird, it's actively hurting some of DC's most interesting characters. Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer and Barry Allen all came back, all of them displacing FAR more interesting legacy characters and replacing them with standard-issue, boring, square-jawed Kennedy-era white guys, because comics fans (and Geoff Johns) are apparently stuck permanently in the past. In Allen's case, they also undid one of the best, most satisfying and heroic deaths in superherodom, one that people had the common fucking sense not to touch for 25 years. For some reason, Jaime Reyes has survived the chopping block, but if this continues I wouldn't be surprised to see Ted Kord back in the suit.

 

And what's really tragic about this is that their attempts to "bring back the silver age" have missed the point of what the silver age WAS. It's entirely superficial and clueless, beginning and ending with getting Barry Allen and co. back and making lots of references to that era of comics. But they still want the stupid "grim and gritty" shit, the misogyny, the pointless violence. They've added the Authority (supposedly Stormwatch, but come on) to the DCU, and removed everything interesting about them. They've made fucking Grifter and Voodoo into headlining characters, as if anyone gave a shit. They want the early 90s back, because that era did SO much for comics with no consequences whatsoever. They just don't freaking get it.

 

I'm not going to rant about Before Watchmen because I did that at length in the appropriate thread. But all of this combines to create a portrait of a company that has no idea what it's doing, that's run by people who have had their heads jammed up their ass for decades now, that still think they live in a clubhouse with a "no gurls allowd" sign and can't understand why their sales are plummeting. (And they are plummeting. Despite the much ballyhooed sales bump of the new 52, the sales are basically back down to where they were before it launched, i.e. in the toilet.) Meanwhile Marvel, despite having its own issues, generally have their shit together and are producing inventive, appealing comics for all ages by some of the top talent in the industry, even putting aside the fact that they have a wildly successful movie division.

 

Didio should have been out last year, and the fact that he's clinging on by basically burning through the company's legacy just saddens me. By the time the WB brass finally oust him and put an adult in charge, the company is going to be ashes. Then they have my permission to die.
 

post #10 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Postall of this combines to create a portrait of a company that has no idea what it's doing, that's run by people who have had their heads jammed up their ass for decades now, that still think they live in a clubhouse with a "no gurls allowd" sign and can't understand why their sales are plummeting.

I have the Dark Horse App and I use it to get new issues of The Massive as soon as they hit. Without getting into the fact that it's the shittiest comic reader I've ever used*, the splash screen for Dark Horse's App is for some reason an illustration of a female elf in fetish wear. Not a corporate logo,  or something like "Welcome to Dark Horse", nope... just a piece of sexualized elfin eye candy. It makes me feel embarrassed every time I boot it up. I can't help but wonder what the female audience thinks when they see how Dark Horse chose to pimp their app.

 

*it's a fucking struggle to turn the page, to zoom, to do anything. It can't seem to understand the difference between a swipe, a pinch, a tap and a double tap. You touch the screen and then just wait to see how it's creatively interpreted your gesture. It saps the joy from reading when you're sitting there fighting the controls, unable to switch pages without 20 seconds of glitching, rebooting the app two or three times before it will cooperate. It seriously makes me want to just wait a few days and pirate the comic so I can read it on an App that's actually functional.


Edited by Dr Harford - 8/10/12 at 1:34pm
post #11 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

... the story and characters paper thin Batman and Catwoman rip offs (with GIANT SNEAKERS).

 

You do know Holy Terror started life as a Batman story, right?

post #12 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson View Post

 

You do know Holy Terror started life as a Batman story, right?

Yes, but then he said it had evolved into something more and "no longer made sense as a Batman story". I believe what actually happened is that he turned in his script and DC wanted nothing to do with the hateful piece of trash he wrote, so he just created "The Fixer" (identical in appearance and methods to Batman, except he kills Muslims) to center his comic on.

 

Miller's explanation for why it's no longer a Batman story makes no sense, since it's very much a Batman story by another name. We even get a Jim Gordon eqe

post #13 of 37
Avengers vs. X-Men has managed to take maybe 22 pages of actual story and stretch it out over, what, nine issues now?
post #14 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post
There was a great Comics Alliance editorial a while back about how the rush to return back to the Silver Age isn't just weird, it's actively hurting some of DC's most interesting characters. Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer and Barry Allen all came back, all of them displacing FAR more interesting legacy characters and replacing them with standard-issue, boring, square-jawed Kennedy-era white guys, because comics fans (and Geoff Johns) are apparently stuck permanently in the past.

 

I never really got the appeal of legacy characters, at least when they're tied to iconic superheroes. I know they have to grab younger readers somehow, but "Hey, it's Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman...only younger!" always struck me as a dead end. They're not going to toss out the older characters for the younger versions and, in many cases, they have multiple generations of these younger versions now running around. Some of them are going to get shafted when their entire reason for existing just got taken away by the seventh person to put on the spandex and call themselves Kid Silver Surfer.

post #15 of 37

As someone who got into comics mainly because of Mark Waid's creation and inventive use of the Flash legacy, my decision to bail on monthly comics (done for financial reasons) five years ago seems oh so prudent. I read Flash Rebirth, and... ugh. Sounds like I haven't missed much since.

post #16 of 37

I always liked Wally. But the current run on The Flash is really good, fun, and visually inventive stuff. It's one of the few silver linings in this whole New 52 boondoggle.

post #17 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMR View Post

 

I never really got the appeal of legacy characters, at least when they're tied to iconic superheroes. I know they have to grab younger readers somehow, but "Hey, it's Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman...only younger!" always struck me as a dead end. They're not going to toss out the older characters for the younger versions and, in many cases, they have multiple generations of these younger versions now running around. Some of them are going to get shafted when their entire reason for existing just got taken away by the seventh person to put on the spandex and call themselves Kid Silver Surfer.

 

It's not about grabbing "younger" readers necessarily (though I'm sure it helps). It's the fact that most of DC's heroes originate in an era when superheroes were as formulaic and interchangeable as possible, on purpose. Obviously Batman and Superman are iconic and have become textured and interesting over the years, plus being the "standard model" means that they serve a purpose. But Hal Jordan, Ray Palmer, Barry Allen and the rest are all basically the same square-jawed, heroic white dude repeated over and over again. There's really no stories you can tell with Barry Allen that you can't tell with Wally West, and so on, and by bringing in new characters with the same name and powers, you provide a little diversity of character (and, in John Stewart, Ryan Choi and Jaime Reyes' case, of skin colour). It's not a coincidence that the ultra-popular Justice League cartoon went with the Stewart and West versions of Green Lantern and the Flash. Plus, creating legacy characters allows the DCU to evolve, to move forward, to create a sense of stakes. And it allows stories to *end*, which is something that's really hurting superhero comics right now. Barry Allen got a great, heroic death, and his story ended. It meant something. It resonated. Now there was a new Flash that people loved--everyone wins! Bringing back Barry and booting Wally out is like saying that the last 25 years or so of comics don't matter, that the "real" DC comics is the DC comics of 1962, the old-fashioned, dopey, pointless stuff that Marvel swept aside.

 

And even if they were committed to that, they might have something, but as I've said, they don't actually want to write Silver Age stories anymore. Comics storytelling has moved on. They want the trappings of the Silver Age while trying to write "relevant" stories that just don't fit. It's the worst of both worlds.

post #18 of 37
Quote:
Meanwhile Marvel, despite having its own issues, generally have their shit together and are producing inventive, appealing comics for all ages by some of the top talent in the industry, even putting aside the fact that they have a wildly successful movie division.

 

I agree with your criticisms of DC, but I think Marvel at this point is way worse. There's no title variety whatsoever (If you don't like Avengers or X-Men, sorry), and when good comics undersell, they're replaced with double-shipped issues of Spiderman or Fantastic Four. It's fucking disgusting. Something like Lemire's Animal Man would never have survived. I mean, look what happened to Thor: The Mighty Avenger, it got scrapped for Fraction's crap.

 

Just curious though, who do you like over at Marvel? I can't really think of any talent that they have. Hickman, Fraction, and Bendis have been producing the same comics they have since they've started writing. 

post #19 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Plus, creating legacy characters allows the DCU to evolve, to move forward, to create a sense of stakes. And it allows stories to *end*, which is something that's really hurting superhero comics right now. Barry Allen got a great, heroic death, and his story ended. It meant something. It resonated.

 

This! I loved the fact that time passed - we saw these characters grow and change. But clearly the DC brass got bored. 

post #20 of 37

After 4 hit movies 2 hit cartoons Spiderman still sucks.The only good book in the Spiderman line is Venmon

post #21 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMcLargeHuge View Post

 

I agree with your criticisms of DC, but I think Marvel at this point is way worse. There's no title variety whatsoever (If you don't like Avengers or X-Men, sorry), and when good comics undersell, they're replaced with double-shipped issues of Spiderman or Fantastic Four. It's fucking disgusting. Something like Lemire's Animal Man would never have survived. I mean, look what happened to Thor: The Mighty Avenger, it got scrapped for Fraction's crap.

 

Just curious though, who do you like over at Marvel? I can't really think of any talent that they have. Hickman, Fraction, and Bendis have been producing the same comics they have since they've started writing. 

 

Well, I have to admit, I kind of dabble in Marvel. I've always been more of a DC guy anyway. So perhaps I spoke too soon, but from what I've seen Marvel's work has been rather more fun and imaginative and aimed more at kids. Maybe I'm way off.

 

And while I admit I haven't followed all of their most recent issues, Dan Slott, Kieron Gillen, Hickman and Fraction have all impressed me with some of their stuff. Hickman I have a couple of issues with, but he's definitely trying something new. I've only read a couple of issues each, but Ed Brubaker's run on Captain America and Mark Waid's run on Daredevil are being showered in critical praise.

 

They've also done some interesting stuff with indie artists in the past few years--I LOVED the Johnathan Lethem/Farel Dalrymple Omega the Unknown, and Strange Tales, featuring a bunch of takes on Marvel characters from the likes of Kate Beaton and Jaime Hernandez, was highly entertaining.

post #22 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

And while I admit I haven't followed all of their most recent issues, Dan Slott, Kieron Gillen, Hickman and Fraction have all impressed me with some of their stuff. Hickman I have a couple of issues with, but he's definitely trying something new. I've only read a couple of issues each, but Ed Brubaker's run on Captain America and Mark Waid's run on Daredevil are being showered in critical praise.

 

I don't know, it may come down to personal taste.

 

I think Dan Slott and Hickman write in circles. They make imaginary steps forward, when in fact nothing really changes (Hickman on FF, and Slott's build-up of Spidey 700). I'm softer on Slott because no one has been able to move the character of Spiderman forward since the original Stan Lee run (That's another issue). Hickman blew a lot of cool ideas with FF though. Gillen writes Games of Thrones-lite in Journey into Mystery. Maybe that's a bit harsh, but that's how I feel. I didn't enjoy Fraction's Iron Man, but then I hate that character in the first place (His Hawkeye monthly has gotten rave reviews, if it continues I'll definitely pick up the trade). None of it really matters though, as they're all being canceled for the upcoming MARVEL NOW!

 

Brubaker's Captain America was Marvel's most solid book for six years. It delivered consistently interesting espionage stories. However, when Captain America relaunched last year when the movie came out, the quality started to drop. Brubaker tried to bring back the zaniness of Kirby's 70s run, but he doesn't have the writing quality to pull it off. A noble failure, even then, I've heard his new Winter Soldier run is very much like his old Captain America.

 

Mark Waid's Daredevil is light, fun, and understands the importance of one-and-done. Which is why it is my favorite. 

 

EDIT: Prankster are you a fan of the Fourth World? I believe I've seen you write about Kirby before. I'm currently reading Walt Simonson's Orion. It's a great send up to Kirby. It may even be better than his Thor run.


Edited by BigMcLargeHuge - 8/11/12 at 5:46pm
post #23 of 37

Anyody reading the X-Men Vs Avengers thing? Seems like another pointless "Event" storyline to me.

post #24 of 37

Yes, I am a fan of the Fourth World.

 

I've been leery of non-Kirby takes on the Fourth World, though. I feel like that was so personal and so linked to his vision that there's just no point in anyone else tackling it. Even Grant Morrison, one of the few guys who might actually be able to do justice to it, hasn't really been able to pull it off. I'll give it a try, though, Simonson is another guy who can actually pull off "doing Kirby".
 

post #25 of 37

Simonson's Orion is actually pretty underrated and probably one of the few times a different creator "got" Kirby. Then again Simonson's run on Thor is one of my favorite things comics-wise so I'm a bit of a fangirl.

post #26 of 37

Well, this is gonna be fun, since this year was the year i finally just stopped caring and quit comics alltogether; i cancelled my subscriptions and moved on to get the TPBs or HCs that seem interesting or i have heard good things about.

While i was mostly a Marvel guy, the DC reboot really pissed me off, even if some good books have come from it; however, I still say buying the new "Suicide Squad" book should earn you a punch in the dick by John Ostrander.

As for Marvel, it was the dual punch of Death of Spiderman (and the long agony that was the literal cleansing of the Ultimate Marvel universe, so it doesnt ressemble its original idea anymore) and the lackluster ending to "Children's Crusade"...both are things related to one person working on comics i actually despise and admire at the same time...

Brian Michael Bendis...seriously, his runs on Daredevil, Ultimate Spider-man, Alias/Pulse and some of his Avengers work are nothing short of stellar, but at one point, the guy became Marvel's MVP and it all went to hell; any "Event" hes had his hands on ALWAYS ends up having much more interesting (and logical) stories in the related books by other writers; he ignores or bends continuity and established characters in order to further his own ends (I think there is no way Allan Heinberg or Paul Jenkins would had allowed the Young Avengers and The Sentry to be used by Bendis if they owned the characters), and, worst of all, each event he develops ends up mucking up other writer's plans or runs for their own titles.

I'd also like to mention that while I admire what Slott is doing with Spider-man (Slott seems to be one of the few writer who seems to enjoy using continuity and respect character's established history in his writing), the whole "Devil Divorce" managed to make me stop buying Spider-man titles; not even "Sins Past2 or "The other" managed to do that!.

post #27 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

Simonson's Orion is actually pretty underrated and probably one of the few times a different creator "got" Kirby. Then again Simonson's run on Thor is one of my favorite things comics-wise so I'm a bit of a fangirl.


Simonson (and Byrne) also earn legendary status beyond mortality for taking a fan's question/suggestion and making it awesome.

Yes, im talking about Darkseid VS Galactus.

I love that crossover to bits.

post #28 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post

Well, this is gonna be fun, since this year was the year i finally just stopped caring and quit comics alltogether; i cancelled my subscriptions and moved on to get the TPBs or HCs that seem interesting or i have heard good things about.

 

I know I'm a tiresome nag on this point, but please, please, PLEASE don't write off the entire medium because of DC and Marvel. Image comics in particular is producing at least two great books right now (Saga and Prophet), with more great-looking stuff on the way.

post #29 of 37

Yup yup yup.

post #30 of 37
Motion Comics are surely a sign of the coming apocalypse.
post #31 of 37

Dark Horse and Image are the new "big two" as far as I'm concerned. There's a serious arms race happening there, with Dark Horse really stepping it up in the past few months in what seems like a response to Image with books like Mind MGMT and The Massive. I think we're going to be seeing a lot more stuff from them that's not Hellboy or Star Wars, and that's a good thing.

post #32 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

 

I know I'm a tiresome nag on this point, but please, please, PLEASE don't write off the entire medium because of DC and Marvel. Image comics in particular is producing at least two great books right now (Saga and Prophet), with more great-looking stuff on the way.


Oh, I KNOW....i should had specified I was talking about Superhero comics in general, since those are the ones i followed monthly; books like the ones you mentioned ive always prefered to buy in trade form, because i kind of enjoy reading their story arcs in one go; its just superhero stuff i read in individual issues.

post #33 of 37

I feel like I say this every year, but it really seems like we're getting to a point where Marvel and DC are going to be increasingly shunted to the side of the comics industry (which they probably wouldn't even care about, since they're raking in the Hollywood bucks). But The Walking Dead alone is probably keeping Image in ivory back-scratchers (yes, I know most of their money goes to their creators, but they still get a cut, and TWD is a massive cash cow even before you factor in the TV show), and Hellboy/BRPD honestly seems like it's becoming as solid-selling a shared universe as the DC and Marvel U.'s. Then there's the licensed comics at IDW (not the most excitingly original thing in the world, but comic spinoffs have always been a huge keystone of the industry) and the explosion of kid's comics, which is the REALLY heartening thing to me, 'cuz those new readers have to come from somewhere.

 

The reason I always groan about DC and Marvel isn't that I dislike their comics (though in many cases I do), it's that they force the medium into this little incestuous circle-jerk where the entire industry hangs on them. People have been predicting the collapse of one company or the other for a while now (probably DC) but that carried with it the caveat that they would probably take the direct market, and maybe the comics industry as we know it, down with them. With all the diversification lately I feel like we're actually likely to get some kind of, gasp, stability.
 

post #34 of 37

Yeah the "too big to fail" Big Two model deserves to be ashcanned. It's absurd how much market share those two have controlled in the past. And how much shelf space they take up on a weekly basis. That's why it's tough for anyone else to get much of a foothold.

 

Going back a little bit, I'll say this about the New 52 and Wally West, had anyone read Flash before they brought back Barry Allen? Once they had Wally grow up, get married, and have kids they had No Idea on how to write Wally. Even Mark Waid was flummoxed. Heck, it's not like Wally even had an interesting job. A few quips every now and then doesn't make Wally West the same character people really liked in the 1990s. People weren't ready for Bart Allen to take over the mantle, so that didn't leave them much choice. At least the Flash has been a good, fun book.

post #35 of 37

I soured on comics when DC decided the way to make their comics "relevant, grim and gritty" was to have what was essentially a character designed to appeal to small children get raped by a guy wearing a fin. And then having all the Superheros perform the "ultimate crime"; wiping the memories of the bad guys so they don't know the hero's identities. So crass, vile, stupid, debased.

 

I also hate that (as described above) great story arcs, for the Flash, for Green Lantern, were undermined because someone decided the fanboys only wanted the original versions. Thus Kyle Rainer, a great character as the "new" Green Lantern, gets side lined to bring back Hal Jordon, who I guess is forgiven for murdering how many people in the Emerald Twilight storyline.

post #36 of 37

I'm much more pissed off about sidelining Wally West who we can almost ALL agree was the better(non-boring) version of The Flash.

post #37 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega View Post

I'm much more pissed off about sidelining Wally West who we can almost ALL agree was the better(non-boring) version of The Flash.


Even Connor Hawke was starting to become more interesting than daddy with his monk ninja background and possibly being gay as well as being multi-racially ethnic. Don't see why Connor and Oliver can't co-exist. They're so different that it'd make a really neat father and son dynamic.

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