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Fringe the Final Season - Page 3

post #101 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

Who are where are these people who are blanketing Boston with pictures of Etta and "RESIST" graffiti? Because, from where I'm sitting, the resistance looks like it's made up of the usual Fringe team plus one other guy.

 

 

^LOL  That is partially what I meant when I wrote that the show needs to open up this world. It's too static. We basically get to see the gang in the lab, and the gang picking up some item. How does what our Fringe team is doing play into the larger plan already in the works by people who are native to this time and place, including but not limited to the Resistance.
 

post #102 of 218

It's partially budget, partially time constraints, and partially that the cell-based nature of a resistance makes mixers a bad idea.

 

Also, their plan doesn't require an army (so far). There's no upside for them to expose themselves by running around with people they don't already know.

 

Their resistance contact has mentioned others and their actions (like acquiring guns) multiple times, and we've seen a few guys here and there. It's a bit small-scale, but I get why.

post #103 of 218

I think it's mostly a budget issue. World building is tough on a shoestring budget, and they've done a mostly good job pulling it off so far. I'm guessing they're trying to hold off a bit until the finale. I did like the anticlimactic way that they got rid of observer Peter, I was dreading yet another boring, Dark City-esque mind battle where two guys stare at each other until one screams and explodes.

post #104 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanburger View Post

I was dreading yet another boring, Dark City-esque mind battle where two guys stare at each other until one screams and explodes.

 

Dreading?

 

You and I are so not going to get on, son.

post #105 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

 

Dreading?

 

You and I are so not going to get on, son.


 It's the most unimaginative thing they can do at this point, sorry.

post #106 of 218

But...but...it's two people using their minds to battle each other and the loser exploding!!!!!!

 

OH FINE.

post #107 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

It's partially budget, partially time constraints, and partially that the cell-based nature of a resistance makes mixers a bad idea.

 

Also, their plan doesn't require an army (so far). There's no upside for them to expose themselves by running around with people they don't already know.

 

Their resistance contact has mentioned others and their actions (like acquiring guns) multiple times, and we've seen a few guys here and there. It's a bit small-scale, but I get why.

 

I get why its happening, its just not as interesting to watch. Also, while mentally I understand what is at stake, emotionally I am not invested in this season's arc at all. It doesn't make a difference to me whether they succeed at their plan or not. I just don't feel the urgency of it all.

post #108 of 218

You know, I totally checked out at the beginning of S4, then got hooked again around the middle (at the height of Jared Harris/David Robert Jones' arc), then lost interest again after last year's lackluster finale. I skipped the first three eps of S5 entirely, but I broke down the other day and, out of sheer, abject boredom, watched from 'The Bullet that Saved the World' on on Fox's website. And I have to say, I'm back on board at this point. Haven't seen the latest episode yet, but Etta's death and Peter going off the deep end have got me reinvested. If nothing else, I really want to see Widmark get what's coming to him.

 

Do I still think seasons 1-3 form a terrific arc of television that would have been more than adequate in its own right? Absolutely. Does making the Observers evil all of a sudden still feel tacked-on and completely unearned? Yep. But what the hell. Based on just the shows I've watched so far, I'm already prepared to call this season twice as good as last.

 

Also, with his high-stress job and whatnot, I don't know what kind of diet and exercise regimen Broyles is on, but whatever it is, he needs to bottle it or write a book or something, for the good of humanity. Twenty-five years and the man hasn't aged a day.

post #109 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB79 View Post

You know, I totally checked out at the beginning of S4, then got hooked again around the middle (at the height of Jared Harris/David Robert Jones' arc), then lost interest again after last year's lackluster finale. I skipped the first three eps of S5 entirely, but I broke down the other day and, out of sheer, abject boredom, watched from 'The Bullet that Saved the World' on on Fox's website. And I have to say, I'm back on board at this point. Haven't seen the latest episode yet, but Etta's death and Peter going off the deep end have got me reinvested. If nothing else, I really want to see Widmark get what's coming to him.

 

Do I still think seasons 1-3 form a terrific arc of television that would have been more than adequate in its own right? Absolutely. Does making the Observers evil all of a sudden still feel tacked-on and completely unearned? Yep. But what the hell. Based on just the shows I've watched so far, I'm already prepared to call this season twice as good as last.

 

Also, with his high-stress job and whatnot, I don't know what kind of diet and exercise regimen Broyles is on, but whatever it is, he needs to bottle it or write a book or something, for the good of humanity. Twenty-five years and the man hasn't aged a day.

 

No offense intended, but this brings up an interesting point.  I have no idea how people can watch genre TV with deeply rooted mythology at leisure.  I am glad you are back into it, but I personally can't come and go with a show like Fringe.  If I stopped, I'd be done.

post #110 of 218

Same here.I also don't understand starting a show several seasons in. I have friends who started watching Fringe in Season 3. They love it, but I imagine some aspects of the show are lost on them, 

post #111 of 218

I watched it religiously for the first three years, but the early eps of season four just didn't grab me. So I came and went that year, really enjoying it for a few weeks around the middle, but finding it lackluster overall. After the Observer episode and the finale, I pretty much felt like I was done with the show. As I said in my last post, I literally watched the season five episodes that were still available on Fox out of boredom - nothing to do over the weekend and I was caught up on everything else. Surprisingly, I found myself getting invested in the storyline. I still don't like it "in principle," I guess (I honestly feel the show would have been better if it had ended after year three), but on a superficial level, I'm enjoying it. I had similar experiences with Smallville and The X-Files - even though I got to a point where I was checked out of the show overall or felt that things had gone sharply downhill, I was still able to watch the occasional episode and enjoy it on a popcorn level. (I especially liked some of the season eight X-Files eps focusing on Doggett - the 'mythology' was rubbish by then, Mulder was gone, and Scully was a completely different character, but the monster of the week shows could still be decent from time to time, and the show definitely needed some new blood in the cast department by that point).

 

As for Fringe, I feel the first three years told a complete story, and yes, I have a hard time imagining how someone could come in late in the game during that period, at least not without getting caught up at some point. But I don't feel the last two seasons have really expanded on the underlying mythology that was established and elaborated on during the initial three. They feel like unnecessary sequels, rather than chapters of a trilogy (or tetralogy, or whatever). Season four actually re-wrote a lot of the show's backstory (something that would seem to me to be a cardinal sin on a show like this), and the premise of season five just feels totally out of left field, like the 'Highlander II' of the Fringe franchise. The writing's still good though. Everything that's happening now just feels profoundly beside the point, to me, from a 'big picture' perspective. It's like season five of Fringe is an entirely different show, albeit not necessarily a bad one.


Edited by TonyB79 - 12/13/12 at 6:42pm
post #112 of 218

I hear you in regards to Seasons 4 and 5. For all intents and pu8rposes, the characters in Season 4 were not the same people from the previous three, save for Peter. I disliked having to be reacquainted with characters that I had a deep affection for, and I still think its a cheat that Liv magically regained her memories with no explanation as to how. That said, by the end of Season 4 I came around and enjoyed the story overall. While I enjoy watching Season 5 on a superficial level, it does continue to feel unconnected to the previous seasons and as such I have little emotional connection to its resolution.
 

post #113 of 218

I wonder about all the dithering by the writers when it looked like the show wasn't going to come back after season three - "oh, well, I guess we'll find a way to end the story somehow." What story? The story they'd been telling up to that point HAD ended. You can't convince me that any of this season four or five stuff has been in the cooker from the beginning - and even if it has, it doesn't FEEL like it has. The whole history re-write and jump to the future feel like things you do when your show goes on too long and you're struggling to come up with new stories, not the end of a pre-planned arc that just HAD to be able to finish. Were they just angling for more paychecks at that point, or what?

post #114 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB79 View Post

I wonder about all the dithering by the writers when it looked like the show wasn't going to come back after season three - "oh, well, I guess we'll find a way to end the story somehow." What story? The story they'd been telling up to that point HAD ended. You can't convince me that any of this season four or five stuff has been in the cooker from the beginning - and even if it has, it doesn't FEEL like it has. The whole history re-write and jump to the future feel like things you do when your show goes on too long and you're struggling to come up with new stories, not the end of a pre-planned arc that just HAD to be able to finish. Were they just angling for more paychecks at that point, or what?

 

They've been making it up as they go along since the first season. I think they've been pretty open about that. They set goals for each season, but they're not working towards some overall series  statement of purpose in the way that people expected LOST to.

 

Shit, just looking at the the pilot episode is like looking at a completely different show, in every way. Most of the stuff from season 1 were either explained away as nothing, or dropped entirely. Remember how important the Pattern was? Shit, remember the pattern at all? Peter's problem's with the mob? Olivia's dad?

 

I think Season 4 and 5 was just a matter of them getting bold with the stories they were telling because they no longer had the responsibility of being a hit show. The introduction of the alt-universe worked (it's arguably the best thing the show has done - and it's lasting legacy), and they tried to do some of that creative magic with another aspect of the show. I don't think they were struggled to come up with new stories as much as they said "screw it, let's just erase Peter from existence and see what happens." It's the same principle that made them go whole hog on the alt-universe and characters. I've dug it quite a bit, but I completely understand that some people wouldn't. But I've never thought that these weren't the stories that they've wanted to tell.

post #115 of 218

But it seems they have dropped the Alt-Universe storyline in Season 5. Surely they have to address whats happening over there before the Finale? I assume there are still problems there since they've shut down The Machine.

post #116 of 218

I'd bet that the Alt-Universe shows up in some form by the end of the season. I imagine that the decision to drop the Alt-Universe and Lincoln Lee (and drop Nina and Broyles down to recurring) were budgetary, but I see them coming in the finale, if not earlier.

 

In another note, tonight's episode was kind of wheel-spinning, but was so wonderfully put together that I didn't mind much. Fringe + drugs = Gold, almost every time.

post #117 of 218

This was preempted here in CT last night, for obvious reasons, but I watched it this morning on Hulu.  Not the strongest episode overall, but damn, I just can't get enough of Walter's Pythonesque trip sequence.  I nearly spat my coffee all over the monitor.  Just delightful.

post #118 of 218

Fantastic episode and frankly, exactly the type of wheel-spinning fun ep the show needed at this time. Loved the python bit, I could've sworn it was done by Gilliam himself.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BaldRayo View Post

I'd bet that the Alt-Universe shows up in some form by the end of the season. I imagine that the decision to drop the Alt-Universe and Lincoln Lee (and drop Nina and Broyles down to recurring) were budgetary, but I see them coming in the finale, if not earlier.

 

 

The might not be working towards an overall series statement but they should at least make the show feel like one complete arc and the alt-universe stuff is particularly problematic, not only because it was the focus of the show for 4 seasons, but also because it didn't feel like it had a natural resolution - they were forced to shot off the machine. I will say that since this season has actually done a good job of referencing the previous ones so far, I'm confident that they'll involve the alt-universe at some point and not just leave it hanging.

post #119 of 218

I really enjoyed last night's episode. The show is best when it weaves seamlessly between mythology and character development and Walter-centric episodes are always good for that. I loved the Monty Python tripping sequence, I loved Walter wrestling with his identity, and the reveal that "Michael" already knows Liv was just superb. I have a theory that Michael is actually September, the Observer who has been obsessed with Liv and Peter since they were kids and who has spent his life helping them because they are "important" to the timeline.
 

As for the Alt-Universe, I think we are done with them. They gave everyone a great farewell last season. Why undo all that?

post #120 of 218
Thread Starter 

Damn that was awesome.  That Python animation was superb and a perfect illustration of Walter's mind.

post #121 of 218
I think so too Diva. All season I've been going back and forth between Donald being September and Sam Weiss, and they've shut the door on Sam (which would have been boring and anticlimatic, to be frank).

This episode was baffling and trippy, but at the same time, I feel like I know so much more now than I did a week ago. I always wondered what kind of relationship Carla had with Walter after that whole "There's only room for one God" conversation, and her dismay at Walter bringing Peter over. Of course we all knew that she died in a fire and Walter went to the institution because of it, but we didn't know why it happened. And now we do.

I just feel like we had a ton of information thrown at us last night, and the showrunners are expecting us to pay attention or miss out. They mentioned the alternate timeline more in this episode than they have all season--they wanted to remind us that this is not our original recipe Fringe world. Coupled with the Carla Warren and Nina hallucinations, the red and GREEN fairies, the little boy, and Peter staring almost longingly at the observer tech of the dead Observer .... something is looking to be reset, replaced, or torn wide open.
post #122 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by CocoaSugarbaker View Post

.... something is looking to be reset, replaced, or torn wide open.

I think they reset to field where the Observers first starting coming out.  This way Peter/Olivia will get Etta back from when she was a kid. 

 

I'm starting to come around that we may yet get a happy ending.

post #123 of 218

Great episode this week. As has already been mentioned, the Monty Python section was superb. I also very much enjoyed the way they used flashbacks as though they were projected films, allowing the audience to still see the present version of Walter as he came to terms with those recollections. The people behind the current season of Supernatural (which is heavily reliant on flashbacks) could certainly have learnt something here.

 

Everyone involved in in Fringe is doing their best to ensure I feel the show's loss when the finale is reached and, to be fair, they're doing a damned good job at this point,

post #124 of 218

I think Michael knowing Olivia has something to do with the end game of the show. It'd be great if Walter's plan was to bring back the original universe somehow, that would be a nice full circle coda for the series.

post #125 of 218

Another new one tonight, one of the few network shows airing a new episode so close to Christmas.

post #126 of 218

Totally thought that Donald was Michael Fassbender for a second.

post #127 of 218

Very cool episode considering how little happened outside of conversations. Nina got one of the best speeches in the entire run of the show.

post #128 of 218

Nina went out like a badass. Eat it baldies!

post #129 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

Nina got one of the best speeches in the entire

Windmark was Christopher Walker to Nina's Dennis Hopper.  Awesome fuck you speech.

 

3 weeks-and 3 episodes left.  I belive the finale 2 are on the same night.  Can't wait.

post #130 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

Totally thought that Donald was Michael Fassbender for a second.

 

Ha, I did the same thing, although I thought it was Jared Harris at first, then Fassbender, then finally "Oh, September with hair!"

post #131 of 218

I was so confused that September was the guy with hair that I rewound three times. I was hoping they wouldn't end the show with a reset but it seems that's where its heading. Still, the preview has me excited for what's to come. Sad to see Nina go, but she went out like a champ. I still would love to see Olivia have more to do than watch other people do their thing. Here's hoping she has an actual role in The Plan.
 

post #132 of 218
Thread Starter 

I'm still trying to figure out how the boy Michael wasn't detected. You'd think the observers had thermal energy technology or something. But maybe he's cold like a lizard that Nina Sharp alluded to..

post #133 of 218

Does anyone find the powers of The Observers a little inconsistant? If they can see into multiple futures and teleport, shouldn't they easily be able to dodge bullets and punches?

post #134 of 218

They can't see into the future, they are just humanoid computers. Like Peter was doing when he had the implant into his head, the Observors determine the most probable sequence of events given the information they know about a particular person in a particular social environment. They do have an ability to experience time differently, but they can only do so within the timeline(s) in which they live. They are not all seeing beings, though sometimes it seems like they are. They are just advanced humans that found a way to enhance our five senses.
 

post #135 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Does anyone find the powers of The Observers a little inconsistant? If they can see into multiple futures and teleport, shouldn't they easily be able to dodge bullets and punches?


They can. That's why they aren't using bullet-based guns against them - we've seen them just catch the bullets.

post #136 of 218

So to tide me over the break, my boyfriend and I have been rewatching Fringe from the beginning. The Pilot makes me really uncomfortable. Broyles was a raging asshole, everyone called Olivia "sweetheart", and the soap-opera boyfriend plot is tired and cliche. But the show quickly recalibrates, with Broyles respecting Liv and Astrid, Walter and Peter starting to settle in their roles. That said, Peter's primary role the fist season was to be the angry, cynic. It's amazing that he's such a beloved character now because he is truly unlikeable in the beginning. The Monster of the Week aspects of the show is fun (I wish there was more of it these days), and seeing how September and Nina are introduced armed with the information I know now is fascinating. I'm about halfway through Season 1 and its still trying to find its voice, but it remains compelling TV. My boyfriend stopped watching the show somewhere in Season 2. I keep telling him Season 3 is the apex of the series, so he's willing to give it a chance for me. I'm excited to relive it.

post #137 of 218

Also Nina and Broyles were in a relationship in Season 1-2. Noticed they dropped this aspect in the later Seasons.

post #138 of 218

So, I am dodging all the pages to say that I have just received Season 4 on Blu. Fringe is one of those great shows that I can never catch live. I am very jealous of those of you watching at release dates. I will be back with my observances as soon as Season 5 is released on Blu.

post #139 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Also Nina and Broyles were in a relationship in Season 1-2. Noticed they dropped this aspect in the later Seasons.


Yup, you can see hints of it before its revealed to. They have a great playful banter over who gets to keep Olivia in the second episode (I had forgotten Nina offered Liv a job at Massive Dynamic).

post #140 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Also Nina and Broyles were in a relationship in Season 1-2. Noticed they dropped this aspect in the later Seasons.

 

I'm not sure if it was referenced in Season 3, but the reset allowed the writers to ditch pretty much anything they didn't feel like pursuing.

post #141 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diva View Post

So to tide me over the break, my boyfriend and I have been rewatching Fringe from the beginning. The Pilot makes me really uncomfortable. Broyles was a raging asshole, everyone called Olivia "sweetheart", and the soap-opera boyfriend plot is tired and cliche. But the show quickly recalibrates, with Broyles respecting Liv and Astrid, Walter and Peter starting to settle in their roles. That said, Peter's primary role the fist season was to be the angry, cynic. It's amazing that he's such a beloved character now because he is truly unlikeable in the beginning. The Monster of the Week aspects of the show is fun (I wish there was more of it these days), and seeing how September and Nina are introduced armed with the information I know now is fascinating. I'm about halfway through Season 1 and its still trying to find its voice, but it remains compelling TV. My boyfriend stopped watching the show somewhere in Season 2. I keep telling him Season 3 is the apex of the series, so he's willing to give it a chance for me. I'm excited to relive it.


It's amazing how different the first half of season 1 is compared to the rest of the series (I think even Walter had a different accent in the first couple episodes). I give them credit for course correcting so well. I think it was "Bad Dreams" near the end of season 1 where Fringe started to truly find it's footing. There were some fun episodes before that (particularly everything involving David Robert Jones), but that was my first "holy shit" episode (and look, the scene of Olivia-as-Nick picking up the stripper was hot, I won't lie).

 

That being said, the first half of season 3 was pretty much 9 straight "holy shit" episodes in a row. Easily one of my favorite runs ever.

post #142 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

 

I'm not sure if it was referenced in Season 3, but the reset allowed the writers to ditch pretty much anything they didn't feel like pursuing.


and re-do all of the stuff from "The Pattern" era that they wanted to incorporate into the season 2/3 storylines. I find it really interesting that most of the call backs and and references in season 4 and 5 are from season 1 stuff that seemed to get dropped once the alternate universe was incorporated.

post #143 of 218

You can definitely see the change from the first half of Season 1 to the second. I recall reading an interview where they brought in the screenwriter of A Beautiful Mind to give the Fringe writers advice. Supposedly, Fringe was going to reveal the alternate universe in Season 3! The Beautiful Mind guy told them that was the most interesting stuff and to move up the storyline. So glad they did.
 

post #144 of 218

Yeah, Akiva Goldsman, he's been a writer on Fringe since around the second season and it's been better off for it. Funny thing is, that he has written some TERRIBLE screenplays, including Batman & Robin and The Da Vinci Code.

post #145 of 218

Ha! I didn't realize he did those films. Perhaps he should stick to small screen.

post #146 of 218

I started re-watching Fringe over the summer break, and am almost up to Season 3 now. It's really weird watching it all over again, armed with knowledge of where the stories go, and the reset that happens in Season 4. Nina Sharp's insistent "You know how I feel about Agent Dunham!" was a head scratcher before, but now it seems more meaningful, and I wonder if the alternate timeline where NIna raised Olivia was bleeding through somehow. 

post #147 of 218

I do wish Olivia would at least mention John Scott in Seasons 3-5. He was after all the love of her life before Peter.

post #148 of 218

John Scott's disappearance from the narrative is a little strange. It'd be jarring to see him turn up somehow, the entire Pilot/show was fueled by him.

post #149 of 218

I'd imagine Anna Torv's quickie marriage/divorce to Mark Valley has something to do with him not returning or being mentioned.

post #150 of 218

Where else were they going to go with it?  He died and he was in her mind for some half the season if I remember correctly.  Charlie not showing up for season 4 was a bigger bummer.

 

Now bring back Human Target.  The first season stuff.  Not that shit masquerading as Human Target.

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