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post #1551 of 2036
The "Manos" credits are definitely truth in advertising - they were supposed to have a proper credits list overlaid onto the driving sequence after the title card, but somebody screwed up and it was never done, so you've just got this interminable sequence of stuff we're not even supposed to be looking at for like two solid minutes of screentime. They could hardly have picked a more appropriate way to open their movie if it had been deliberate.
post #1552 of 2036
Hilarious.
post #1553 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by wydren View Post
 


So I was kind of expecting more, to be honest.  I'm not a big Doctor Who fan, so this does nothing for me.  That being said, if they had something bigger they probably would have led with that instead of Samurai Cop.  I'll still see it, but eh.

 

They built it up as one of their most-requested, sought after titles, something embroiled in legal issues, so I was really expecting a Godzilla film.

post #1554 of 2036

The Mads both secretly apologizing to them for MANOS and offering encouragement kills me.

post #1555 of 2036

No new set announced by Shout! yesterday.  Maybe they've already hit that wall.  The fact that the latest set was all public domain episodes perhaps should have been a red flag, but it could also mean they're working hard on clearing some tricky episodes and need extra time.  Fingers crossed.

post #1556 of 2036
I hope we get at least one more set. I'd like to see Diabolik get an official release.
post #1557 of 2036

Here's what we know, based on research done by fans at the MST3K Discussion Board.

 

The following unreleased episodes...

 

416 - Fire Maidens from Outer Space
601 - Girls Town
905 - The Deadly Bees
906 - The Space Children
1013 - Diabolik

 

...are Paramount titles and are currently under license to various studios.  The thinking with these is that Shout! should eventually be able to release them all, and it's just a matter of waiting out those licensing agreements.

 

These...

 

309 - The Amazing Colossal Man 

311 - It Conquered the World

418 - Attack of the The Eye Creatures 

807 - Terror from the Year 5000
809 - I Was a Teenage Werewolf

 

are the infamous Susan Hart owned episodes and are considered lost causes for now, although there is some debate over whether she actually owns 418.

 

This...

 

201- Rocketship X-M

 

is also considered a lost cause because Wade Williams has a sentimental attachment to the movie and has made it very clear that he will never approve the MST3K episode for official release and has even asserted he has created a trust that will keep that policy alive when he's dead.  This despite the fact that Williams is a license holder for many other MST3K movies and has licensed them all to Shout!  He draws the line at this movie, regrettably.

 

And of course these:

 

212 - Godzilla vs. Megalon 

213 - Godzilla vs. the Sea Monster  

 

might be the biggest lost causes of all, thanks to Toho.

 

While these...

 

623 - The Amazing Transparent Man

913 - Quest of the Delta Knights

 

are supposedly the "easy" ones.

 

So, the best guess is that the next volume will include those last two, and whatever two Paramount titles become available first.

post #1558 of 2036
Quote:

 

This...

 

201- Rocketship X-M

 

is also considered a lost cause because Wade Williams has a sentimental attachment to the movie and has made it very clear that he will never approve the MST3K episode for official release and has even asserted he has created a trust that will keep that policy alive when he's dead.  This despite the fact that Williams is a license holder for many other MST3K movies and has licensed them all to Shout!  He draws the line at this movie, regrettably.

I admit, I only knew of the Wade Williams hardline position through off-hand references in other places, but I decided to read up on just why and stumbled across this fascinating thread on a home theater forum in which Williams engages fans who respectfully ask him about the subject. 

 

I have an attachment to that episode because season 2 is when I first started watching (circulating the tapes from a college buddy's mom who taped the show from their house in Daytona Beach since we did not get Comedy Channel in Gainesville) so I would love to have a legit release of this episode, but reading through that thread makes me think it will never happen, and that's sad.

post #1559 of 2036

For a while, Rocketship X-M was considered a classic SF film (not sure if/when the bloom came off that rose, but I remember it being mentioned quite fondly in old issues of Starlog and Famous Monsters), so I kinda get the reluctance to have its legacy cemented via MST3K.

post #1560 of 2036

The episode is not going to go away, though.  The only thing he is really accomplishing is depriving fans of a pristine version.  Which seems petty.

 

I suppose Shout! could just put out those historically-important host segments that introduced Murphy and Conniff to the cast, if that ends up being the only thing they can preserve.

post #1561 of 2036
I've long given up hope of Rocketship X-M ever getting an actual DVD release, so I went ahead and bought a very professional-looking bootleg DVD set that also includes the 2 Godzilla episodes. I'll probably go the same route for the remaining episodes if/when Shout announces they won't be releasing any more sets.
post #1562 of 2036

Is "The Sinister Urge" unavailable?  I know it was on that one Rhino boxed set that I really should have bought, back in the day, but I don't think it got a Shout! release. 

post #1563 of 2036

You'll probably have to wait until Shout! gets to Vol. 9 on the re-releases.  Right now they're on Vol. 5, which comes out in May.

 

What's unfortunate about the re-releases is that their lower sales means Shout! can't justify commissioning any new extras or Steve Vance poster art.


Edited by FatherDude - 3/29/17 at 9:46am
post #1564 of 2036

Yup - the suspicion is two more releases at most and then they are out of episodes. The other possibility is that they now mix the NEW episodes into the volumes. They are producing a full season 11 set for all the backers, but I wonder if that will be available to the general public. (It'll likely cost $100 anyways.) So I could completely see them meting out the last few available episodes mixed with the new episodes. 

 

(Don't you want a set with Diabolik (the last season 10 episode) and the first Season 11 episode - release 17 years, 8 months apart!)

 

Seriously though - I could possibly see Susan Hart giving in under the right circumstances...not sure why she is holding out. Wade Williams has repeatedly said it will never, ever happen, though.

post #1565 of 2036
Shout! would never get away with that. You have to imagine that the overlap between consumers of their boxed sets and the Kickstarter backers is huge.
post #1566 of 2036

Does anyone else think of Space Mutiny when you see ads for Valerian?

post #1567 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
 

Does anyone else think of Space Mutiny when you see ads for Valerian?

 

No, just uncomfortable Episode I flashbacks.

 

Revisited Hercules vs. The Moon Men last night.  Hadn't watched it in ages (why?), and it is indeed the goods.  Hercules 'escape' through the basement was some perfect writing.  Nice host segments too.  The 'Bots Bulk up' one was reversed in Space Mutiny.

post #1568 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
 

Does anyone else think of Space Mutiny when you see ads for Valerian?

No, but I certainly think of it when people talk about Mass Effect: Andromeda.

post #1569 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

Shout! would never get away with that. You have to imagine that the overlap between consumers of their boxed sets and the Kickstarter backers is huge.

Yeah, I already get those from the Kickstarter, so I'd hate to be forced to re-buy them just to have all the available episodes from the original run.

post #1570 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

Shout! would never get away with that. You have to imagine that the overlap between consumers of their boxed sets and the Kickstarter backers is huge.

 

That's a good point, though most people that donated to the kickstarter probably didn't donate enough to get the full box set, but yes I agree that it is a lot of the same market.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post
 

 

No, just uncomfortable Episode I flashbacks.

 

Revisited Hercules vs. The Moon Men last night.  Hadn't watched it in ages (why?), and it is indeed the goods.  Hercules 'escape' through the basement was some perfect writing.  Nice host segments too.  The 'Bots Bulk up' one was reversed in Space Mutiny.

 

I recently rewatched that one - and it definitely ranks among my favorites. So many good riffs.

 

- When the queen is sitting on the throne and they start gobbling. 

- "This movies equipped with air bags"

-The meeting where they call out all the characters as famous actors and applaud: "Ladies and Gentlemen, Robert Stack!" "Paul Sorvino"

-"He's got his thong on upside down!"

-"Marlo Thomas is THAT Queen!"

-"Oh, we missed it, the next hercules doesn't come by for three hours."

-"Hey Herc, James Brolin wants his beard back"

-"You're Fired! Clean out your dress."

Plus the Booby Trap and the Pants song?? Sooo good.

post #1571 of 2036

http://nerdist.com/mystery-science-theater-3000-jonah-ray-baron-vaughn-hampton-yount-mst3k/

 

Good, brief article on the production of the new season.

post #1572 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmurdoch View Post
 

http://nerdist.com/mystery-science-theater-3000-jonah-ray-baron-vaughn-hampton-yount-mst3k/

 

Good, brief article on the production of the new season.


Some good stuff in there that should put pretty much everyone at total ease.  These new guys really seem to get it.  I was particularly happy that they talked about doing things that aren't exactly joke or riffs, but reactions to the movie itself.  Vocalizations, sighs, screams, etc.  I always like that stuff in the classic episodes.

post #1573 of 2036

Keith Phipps has a terrific article here that includes a very brief (and positive!) review of the premiere:

 

http://uproxx.com/tv/mystery-science-theater-3000-revival-profile-mst3k-joel-hodgson-jonah-ray/3/

post #1574 of 2036

I'm cautiously optimistic. 

 

But I was also cautiously optimistic for The X-Files.

 

*weeps*

post #1575 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike J View Post
 

I'm cautiously optimistic. 

 

But I was also cautiously optimistic for The X-Files.

 

*weeps*

 

Ha ha, I was never optimistic for the X-files. Not difficult to remember the show was pretty awful the last 3 or 4 seasons. 

 

The first piece that makes me very optimistic is that the basis for the show - riffing the movies - is so simple in concept I think they can't mess it up. Secondly, how well Cinematic Titantic worked shows me Joel still understands the riffing aspect.  And third, the way Joel worked, sort of just slowly accumulating people that have such affection for the show, but also not "forcing" the show to be exactly the same, or completely different - letting it become an extension of what came before as opposed to some sort of exact continuation.

 

Finally, Joel frequently uses the analogies of Dr. Who and especially SNL to say how the show should work. I see the SNL analogy as very fitting. If you look from the first episode (even ignoring KTMA) to the last episode, the show changed SOOO much over the years, there was almost no people involved with the first episode that were on the last episode, and definitely none of the on-air talent was the same. All along those changes there were good episodes and no-so-good episodes, and changes that were liked and not liked. Will SNL in the early years there was a LOT said about the changeover of the cast, but now it's just part of the fabric of the show. 

 

I am hoping that MST3K can find enough success with it's return to go on for many more years...and even if they go through multiple hosts, as long as the core remains the same - comedy sketches and movie riffing - it could continue to provide laughs for a long time. 

post #1576 of 2036
I'm still skeptical that they can bring back that same je ne sais quoi that the original had, and there will only ever be one true Tom Servo. But I will say that what they're showing looks a lot better than I expected - it seems (from the brief bits shown) like the new kids are really working to recapture what they loved about the show while trying to steer clear of the tendency of these next-gen revival projects to just turn into embarassing exercises in slavishly tongue-bathing the original work, which bodes well.
post #1577 of 2036

Whether I watch the Netflix series will largely depend on whether I can divorce it from the series I loved, since it's largely an "in name only" revival. So far, that seems unlikely.

post #1578 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

Whether I watch the Netflix series will largely depend on whether I can divorce it from the series I loved, since it's largely an "in name only" revival. So far, that seems unlikely.

 

Pretty much how I feel.  MST3K was very much the sum of its parts working together perfectly, and it's hard to achieve that level of alchemy again.

post #1579 of 2036

I was able to go from Mike to Joel, from Josh to Frank, from Trace Crow to Bill Crow, from Dr. Forrester to Pearl.  As long as the riffing is strong, I'll be able to roll with this.

post #1580 of 2036

Having attended one of the premieres, I can say that I was happy with what I saw, but I don't think my opinion will be completely formed until I can see the episode again under more objective circumstances. 

 

My main concern going into this was how they were possibly going to capture the "three friends hanging out" vibe that I consider so crucial to MST.  This is especially a problem given the necessarily different way they produced the new show.  This was made in L.A. rather than Eden Prairie.  The scripts were written remotely, rather everyone hurling comments together from a couch.  The silhouettes were done after the fact to accommodate more sophisticated puppetry, as opposed to it all having been recorded "live."  It would seem way more difficult to retain that all-important spontaneity and camaraderie under those circumstances, but my (already faint) memory is being pleasantly surprised on that front.  I think the most important decision Joel made in this whole reboot was to let Jonah pick his Crow and Servo, instead of assigning him some.  You need that "lived in" dynamic.

 

There's a lot of specifics I want to talk about with you guys on April 14th.  What I can say confidently and enthusiastically is that this is not a desecration and there is no cause for anxiety.  I look forward to our spirited arguments about the micro stuff.

post #1581 of 2036
Quote:

Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

 

The scripts were written remotely, rather everyone hurling comments together from a couch.  The silhouettes were done after the fact to accommodate more sophisticated puppetry, as opposed to it all having been recorded "live."

 

Yeah, I was just reading about this and sort of wish I didn't know that.  I remember watching the old show and sometimes you could tell that maybe they cut a line (or at least I thought they did) and even that bugged me.  It almost turn it from being an experience where you're watching a movie with them to being an experience where you're just listening to jokes about a movie.  I mean, yeah, its always been pre-written, but it goes back to that do-it-yourself quality the old show had. 

 

It may not affect the end-product and may very well improve it, but I hate seeing a creative process sort of mechanized.  I'm still excited for this, even before I knew the show would be something that would likely have to grow on me.

post #1582 of 2036

If it's funny, how they wrote it really won't matter to me.  Elton John and Bernie Taupin weren't even in the same building when they wrote their songs together.

post #1583 of 2036

The only thing to mention is the writing process is indeed segmented, but that is how Cinematic Titantic did it as well. They weren't all together for writing those either.  The writing did still take place in small groups across the country, and then the jokes were all compiled by a central team of writers. I don't know about the sketches though. It's actually if you think about it a more thorough writing process - which allows for multiple jokes in the same scene, and hopefully a pick of the best. 

 

(I think this is better than the Rifftrax process, which is they break down the movies into 10 minute segments and hand them out to individuals. This means the first 10 minutes is written by one person, the next 10 by another. I feel that's the reason that Rifftrax has some dreadful lulls in their riffing. )

 

I'm also pretty sure they shot the shadow-rama stuff in camera all together. Now yes it's true that they have separate puppeteers running the puppets, but Hampton and Baron were also present at the time, and they recorded the whole thing together. I remember one of them complaining (Jonah I think) that they had completely lost their voices, because they shot all the thetaer segments all together in a couple of days.  So I'm pretty sure it's wrong that these were "faked". 

post #1584 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by skierpete View Post

 

I'm also pretty sure they shot the shadow-rama stuff in camera all together. Now yes it's true that they have separate puppeteers running the puppets, but Hampton and Baron were also present at the time, and they recorded the whole thing together. I remember one of them complaining (Jonah I think) that they had completely lost their voices, because they shot all the thetaer segments all together in a couple of days.  So I'm pretty sure it's wrong that these were "faked". 

 

The Nerdist article explains the process.  They recorded all the riffing as audio-only, then shot the silhouettes afterward, miming to their own pre-recorded performance.

post #1585 of 2036

I'm going to keep grinding these out, regardless of how far out of the current conversation I stray.  My apologies in advance.

 

S1:E3 - Eegah!

 

"Honk if you love Eegah!"

 

The laughs are increasing.  In Eegah!, I found that the running gag was crucial.  There were no single comments that stood out, but the relentless harping on Arch Hall Jr's unfortunate face, and the dune buggy riffs delivered the goods.  I was expecting at least one comment tying Kiel to the Bond movies somehow, but they never went down that road.  This is the second entry in a row with musical numbers that destroy any modicum of momentum the movie had going for it.  Catalina Caper was a beach blanket musical, so the songs at least make sense there.  Why does one of the leads in this movie sing songs?  It's just so out of place.  The gang just rolls with it and makes general comments on his lameness.   

 

The yucks: "He follows the Torgo school of fondling."  Nice call-back.  I get that reference. 

 

The movie: What is this movie supposed to be?  If it's just to make the point that people are generally assholes and react violently to things they don't understand, I get that, but it's way thin for a full length feature.  It wasn't horror, or straight drama.  Fantastic fiction?  An allegorical tale?  I'm confused, but from a straight-up quality perspective, this was a step down from Catalina Caper.  I have to give both the director and Kiel credit, though, I felt genuine empathy for Eegah, a caveman with possibly the stupidest name in cinematic history.

 

I've decided to start rating these episodes on a scale of 1 to 5 Hands of Fate (HoFs), because why not.  Do not try to rationalize why Manos only gets 2 HoFs.  I realize that it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

1-1: Manos (2 HoFs)

1-2: Catalina Caper (2 HoFs)

1-3: Eegah! (3 HoFs)

post #1586 of 2036
Hot Sandwich, keep 'em coming. They're fun trips down MSTy lane, and help pass the time until the new season airs.
post #1587 of 2036

Agreed, I demand continued hot takes from Hot Sandwich.

post #1588 of 2036

Come for the Sandwich, stay for the Hot!

 

Next up, Future War.  It has rubber dinosaurs.

post #1589 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Sandwich View Post
 

Next up, Future War.  It has rubber dinosaurs.

Keep in mind that guy was in Matrix reloaded and John Wick.

post #1590 of 2036
He will always be Jean Claude Gosh Darn to me.
post #1591 of 2036
Phew, glad the dinosaur got the kid - it really distracted him.
post #1592 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmurdoch View Post

He will always be Jean Claude Gosh Darn to me.

He beat up Keanu Reeves!

post #1593 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Sandwich View Post
 

The movie: What is this movie supposed to be?  If it's just to make the point that people are generally assholes and react violently to things they don't understand, I get that, but it's way thin for a full length feature.  It wasn't horror, or straight drama.  Fantastic fiction?  An allegorical tale?  I'm confused, but from a straight-up quality perspective, this was a step down from Catalina Caper.  I have to give both the director and Kiel credit, though, I felt genuine empathy for Eegah, a caveman with possibly the stupidest name in cinematic history.

 

I've decided to start rating these episodes on a scale of 1 to 5 Hands of Fate (HoFs), because why not.  Do not try to rationalize why Manos only gets 2 HoFs.  I realize that it doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

1-1: Manos (2 HoFs)

1-2: Catalina Caper (2 HoFs)

1-3: Eegah! (3 HoFs)

 

If you are looking for a point to many of these movies you are going to be sorely disappointed. Most of them are made by people that (a) wanted to make a movie and (b) had access to a camera. Scripting and plotting have almost no consequence. (Not unlikely most of the DC Universe though if we are honest about it...ZING!)

 

Eegah is one of my favorites. There's so much funny stuff in there. The lame songs, Arch Hall Jr.'s face. The fact Eegah never says anything gives plenty of space for riffing. I just find it's the rate episode that gives laughs throughout the full 90 minutes. 

post #1594 of 2036
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hot Sandwich View Post

Why does one of the leads in this movie sing songs?  It's just so out of place.  The gang just rolls with it and makes general comments on his lameness.   

 

The only reason I can think of is that he was the director's kid. Also, regarding unnecessary singing, brace yourself for The Giant Gila Monster.

post #1595 of 2036

Pretty much half of the drive-in type movies in those days featured terrible musical numbers. Everyone hoped they'd premiere the next Elvis or The Beatles. 

post #1596 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

Pretty much half of the drive-in type movies in those days featured terrible musical numbers. Everyone hoped they'd premiere the next Elvis or The Beatles. 

 

Catalina Caper is the low point of the MST bunch though, so it's all smooth sailing from here: DaddyO, The Beatniks, Girl in Gold Boots, Gila Monster, I'm probably forgetting some.  Lots of good stuff.

post #1597 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post
 

 

Catalina Caper is the low point of the MST bunch though, so it's all smooth sailing from here: DaddyO, The Beatniks, Girl in Gold Boots, Gila Monster, I'm probably forgetting some.  Lots of good stuff.

Incredibly Strange Creatures... is worse....much, much worse, and clearly a "musical".

 

"Untamed Youth" - one of the better Season 1 episodes - has several songs sung by Mamie Van Doren. Not really a musical, but there's at least 3 or 4 musical numbers.

 

And how about "Yipes Stripes" from Teenage Strangler:

 

post #1598 of 2036
I Was A Teenage Werewolf, too, though that one's at least as much for the nearly Arch-Hall-Jr.-level ugliness of the kid performing it.
post #1599 of 2036

It's a damned shame that Teenage Werewolf is one of the long shot episodes.  It's a "classic" B-movie that also gives Mike and the bots so much to work with.  Just a superfun episode.

post #1600 of 2036
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

It's a damned shame that Teenage Werewolf is one of the long shot episodes.  It's a "classic" B-movie that also gives Mike and the bots so much to work with.  Just a superfun episode.

 

"There was a letterman jacket in my stool!"  

 

I forgot all about the Halloween party with the creepy little Mel Torme-wannabe.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skierpete View Post
 

Incredibly Strange Creatures... is worse....much, much worse, and clearly a "musical".

 

"Untamed Youth" - one of the better Season 1 episodes - has several songs sung by Mamie Van Doren. Not really a musical, but there's at least 3 or 4 musical numbers.

 

And how about "Yipes Stripes" from Teenage Strangler:

 

 

I'll agree that TISCTSLABMUZ is a worse movie than Catalina, but it's a way better MST episode.

 

Untamed Youth is indeed a really good season 1 episode.  Maybe the highlight of the season for me.

 

And there's Girls Town!  Rock out with Paul Anka!

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