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The Walking Dead Season 3 - Page 14

post #651 of 1655

Really good article Ambler, I'm curious to see how the author would react to Michonne's "magic negro/best friend" role so far, something I pretty much agree with, considering she saved Andrea at the end of s2, become her best friend in the interim without the audience actually seeing them connect at all, nurse her at the beginning of this season, and be completely right about the crazy dude she's fucking and subjugated too.  Also, she kinda nailed it when she asked if the introduction of Tyrese could be used as a wedge between the white leaders. 

 

I think the point I was trying to make was related to Question 8 in the article, namely this. 

"I am concerned with how white writers can even develop characters that are outside of their social milieu, identity, and location if they are not going to actively and self-consciously make an effort to do so. Can the average white writer develop fully evolved, rich, and complex characters who happen to be people of color?"

 

The writers just haven't shown that they can do this, color notwithstanding. It's not as if Andrea and Lori are exemplary models for women either, and the one woman hasn't quite fit that mold and has shown to be strong just got humiliated and sexually threatened last week.

post #652 of 1655

I'm digging the hell out of this season....and that was a great cliffhanger.

 

Really loved the Shane in Rick's head.

 

I was also relieved that (nearly) all of Team Rick made it out of Woodbury. I was fearing that we would get a bunch of hostages and more rescue/breakout attempts over the remainder of the season.

 

The highlight of the episode? Michonne taking on The Governor in his creepy ass office...and Andrea's eyes starting to see more of the world she chose for herself.

 

People complaining about The Governor being too cartoony need to read the comic books, where he is overboard silly. I like that the showrunners have made a Governor for the series who isn't so over the top (yet).

 

 

 

BTW...this season is many miles more enjoyable since major spoilers have been leaked less and less online. Last year would have been better had I not been spoiled, weeks in advance, on the midseason finale and the death of one of the major players toward the end of that season.

 

I don't know if AMC has started restricting the early previews for critics, or I have just been lucky this year...but it seems major spoilers have been thankfully absent so far this campaign.
 


Edited by Agent Z - 12/3/12 at 2:48am
post #653 of 1655

Man...  I really like this show again.  It really is a show I'm genuinely excited to wait for, which is not something I thought I would ever say again.

 

Random thoughts so far.

-They fixed Carl.

-With the introduction of Tyrese...  Poor black prisoner didn't stand a chance man.  At least he went fast.

-AWESOME Shane cameo!

-So I hear there's a mustached pedo character in the comics...  Are they setting up motor cycle prisoner guy to be that or am I looking too much into it?

post #654 of 1655

YOU BASTARDS!  You can't just hold the two best characters on this show over the volcano like that!
 

post #655 of 1655
Thread Starter 

If Tyrese wife gets killed just so that they can set up a relationship between him and Michonne, I will kick my TV in (it's an old cathode with a broken power switch. Seriously need a new one).

post #656 of 1655
Thread Starter 

Also, fuck Chris Hardwick's stupid promos. This week's came after the intense fight scene and eye jabbing thing.
 

post #657 of 1655

That was an intense hour.  For the first time this season I jumped. That was when a zombie appeared out of the dark chasing Carl.

 

But I liked the beginning introducing the new characters. I almost thought that we were watching a flash forward with survivors who found the remains of the prison..  I didn't realize it was real time until Carl showed up.

post #658 of 1655

I actually thought this was a pretty good Michonne episode. And not a bad Carl one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrossFire View Post

 

Let's hope, for Michonne's sake, that the introduction of the new Black Female Character doesn't continue the trend.

 

Anyway, we all know how this is going to turn out. Adios, new female black character.

 

:(

post #659 of 1655

The Shane cameo was great, I totally loved that. Did anyone else think, though, "HOLY SHIT, SHANE TURNED INTO WOLVERINE!!"?

 

I mean, come ON! Those sideburns! I loved it.
 

post #660 of 1655
Quote:

I really enjoyed this review. Well done. 

 

Quote:
How strange was that scene where creepy-prisoner guy hit on Hershel’s teenaged daughter?

Yes! It seemed like it was being played for humor, but he seemed a bit too excited to find out she was 17. Tonally, it was very strange.

post #661 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

If Tyrese wife gets killed just so that they can set up a relationship between him and Michonne, I will kick my TV in (it's an old cathode with a broken power switch. Seriously need a new one).

 

That's his wife? With so little time spent on the new group, I had no idea whether she was his wife, his daughter, or whether I was just being racist in assuming a relationship between them at all. smile.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

Yes! It seemed like it was being played for humor, but he seemed a bit too excited to find out she was 17. Tonally, it was very strange.


I wasn't sure if he was excited because she was nearly legal, or because she was not quite legal...

 

And he did hit on Carol as well, so I'm assuming he was just super-horny, which given his history and his prospects, would be totally understandable (and kinda sad).

 

"Not if you were the last man alive!"

 

"So check back later?"

post #662 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

Also, fuck Chris Hardwick's stupid promos. This week's came after the intense fight scene and eye jabbing thing.
 


I generally like Hardwick, but yeah, the promo's need to stop.

 

The only thing I was really missing was, right after the Gov. got his eye taken out, when they cut to commercial, there should have been an ad for glasses or lasik eye surgery.

post #663 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

I really enjoyed this review. Well done.

 

Thanks. I've enjoyed writing them, even though I feel like maybe I get too caught up in the nuts and bolts of the plotting too much sometimes.

post #664 of 1655

Never has a sword wielding woman ever seemed less fun to be around than Michonne. Have to hand it to the writers, they made the Governor 5 million times better than the Snidely Whiplash bikerdouche from the comic, yet it seems that Michonne is still "cool ninja woman from the woods".

 

Also, would it kill any of these people to actually talk to one another about the inevitable shit they're about to get themselves into? "Hey, I'm Rick." "Michonne." "Great, now that I know your name, I feel like maybe I can start seeing you as a person and make it a bit more believable when you barge in here and instead of prattling on for three episodes, to get us to go and do something." I was actually shocked when Glen told them about Merle.

post #665 of 1655

Its a damn shame that Oscar never got to relax at the end of the day with his slippers.

 

I liked the Shane fake out. It would be to simple for Rick to just stop having mental issues. It would be believable that everybody in this world wouldn't be playing with a full deck.

 

I enjoy this show, but I don't think its that great. Its at its best when the focus is on fighting zombies and its at its weakest when it deals with characterization.

 

What I learned from this season is when you have a chance the shoot Merle, you shoot him!

post #666 of 1655

Best scene from mid-season finale.

 

Out of the smoke, Rick sees Shane approaching. Shane! Armed, and coming right for him.

"How can it be Shane," he thinks. He is powerless. Defenseless. He can't react.

Shane lifts his weapon. He takes dead aim at the confused Rick.

And kills Oscar. 

post #667 of 1655

I guess I'm in the minority who thought this episode was a bit anti climactic.  The end was obvious from the moment Daryl said he was going to cover them and I am in agreement with the idea that Merle is a plant to scout out the Prison.  Whoever put together the preview of the second half of the show needs to be fed to the walkers/biters because whats the point in setting up a cliffhanger only to wreck it not even 5 seconds into the credits.  This season has been so enjoyable and faaar better than the majority of the first two seasons that it was inevitable that at some point it would let me down.

 

I still dislike Andrea as a character she needs to die a horrible death.

Michael Rooker needs to be a regular cast member, maybe Daryl can do a Michonne and use a Zombie Rooker on a chain if/when Merle bites it.

post #668 of 1655
That girl is Tyreese's daughter. She's in the comic, and she referred to him as "Dad" at one point in the episode, I believe towards the end.

I also found it funny that Axel the horny convict thought Carol was a Lesbian just because she has short hair. Then he hilariously tries to turn on the charm when she tells him otherwise.
post #669 of 1655

How is Merle going to scout out the prison again? I don't see him being let in by the others. Not after he kidnapped, tortured, and tried to kill Meggie.

 

And why would the Governor not be enraged with Merle again? Merle lied about Michonne, brought his brother's gang to Woodbury, got the Governor's "daughter" killed, and is the reason the Governor is down to one working eye.

 

You think the Governor's rage at Merle is simple a ruse to trojan horse Merle into the prison?!

 

Oh, and on a sidenote, and as done on other forums....

 

Some people make it a point NOT to watch the previews for the upcoming episodes...so as to avoid the spoilers some of you have let out here anyway.  *LOL*
 


Edited by Agent Z - 12/3/12 at 11:45am
post #670 of 1655

Really enjoyed this week's episode despite some of the valid criticisms in this thread. I'm even starting to like Carl now which is... just weird.

 

Oh and love the fact that the Governor is on his way to an eyepatch!

post #671 of 1655
I liked the brief moment when Tyreese angrily yanked the hammer(?) from what I assume was his daughters boyfriends hands. His dejected behavior for a few seconds leads me to believe we will get their little arc in the back half. I can't wait for the "Then I'll do it again" line.
post #672 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turingmachine75 View Post

angrily yanked the hammer...

 

I'm SO stealing this for future use.

post #673 of 1655

What his hammer was doing in the boyfriend's hands to begin with, is for a whole other series.....
 

post #674 of 1655

The hammer is my penis...  -Captain Hammer

post #675 of 1655
Now that you mention it, that does describe Ms. Turing after twenty-five minutes when she just wants to go back to sleep.
post #676 of 1655

I like these thoughts about how things like the prison, Woodbury and the zombie octagon can give us reason to think more deeply about important personal and social issues. Is the show making statements that are more than mere entertainment? http://www.squidoo.com/walking-dead-symbols-as-social-and-psychological-commentary

post #677 of 1655

Goddammit, Andrea is the worst. THE WORST! 

post #678 of 1655
Thread Starter 

I hate that they are too afraid to go that far from the comic. I.e. they could've made The Governor sort of an adversary type of guy and then introduce a more mustache twirling villainous group of militia cannibals and then they have to figure out if they can align with him when they need help, etc.

post #679 of 1655

I am so happy with this season. I can't disagree with a lot of the criticisms leveled at it, but I still find it great TV. I do like Rick and don't find the writing for him (this season) to be shoddy or bad. The show's treatment of women and blacks is NOT good, though. I do dig Michonne, though, despite the part being underwritten. I think the actress in the role brings a lot to it, and I don't have a lot of problems reading (or reading into) her expressions and body language.

 

This last episode...holy ratcheting up the tension. The music, the cutting back and forth, the action - just fantastic work. Bear McCreary is kicking all sorts of ass with his score. Can't wait to see what Merle and Daryl end up doing.

 

Also: Andrea is the worst. Dumb, dumb, dumb. In her case, though, I don't view it as bad writing for a woman. Some people just make awful decisions, and some people are prone to make them over and over again in the relationship area. Andrea's easy prey to alpha males. It happens.

post #680 of 1655

I hope Merle stages a coup by killing Rick, putting Darryl in charge.  Then the Governor can take Carl under his wing and mold him into the show's true nemesis.

post #681 of 1655
Quote:
Michonne, though, despite the part being underwritten. I think the actress in the role brings a lot to it.

I saw an interview with her. Quiet  & petite, so this ...agreeably a one expression performance so far...IS acting, but not multi-fauceted. Yet.

Hey, we got some sweet walker make-ups in the opening sequence~

400

400

400

which, I admit is really the main reason I watch...just fascinated with makeup is me.

post #682 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

....a minor plot issue is how the Governor knew who Daryl even was. Merle doesn't seem like the kind of guy to go around whipping out his wallet and showing people family pictures... 

 

 

I'm pretty sure that if I were in Daryl's situation, I might hope that mentioning my brother's name kept me from getting killed. 

post #683 of 1655

  I don't hate Andrea; I just can't stand the writers who have her doing such stupid things. The Governor's reason for the zombie heads in tanks was weak. Anybody should realize this dude is warped and avoid him like the plague.

post #684 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

 

What I learned from this season is when you have a chance the shoot Merle, you shoot him!

 

 

Hopefully for our purposes, the Gov doesn't figure this out. 

post #685 of 1655

What's wrong with a collection of zombie heads?  They're pretty common, and something has to be done about them.

 

Also, how does the Governor not turn from having 4-6 inches of zombie-ichor tainted glass shoved into his skull?

post #686 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

Its a damn shame that Oscar never got to relax at the end of the day with his slippers.

 

 

 

As a slipper afficianado I really liked when he found those.  But then immediately thought of it as a parallel to "buying a farm to settle down in with my girl after this war is over".  Which is a shame because I was liking his character.

 

Liked the episode.  My favourite bits were all Reedus though.  His wide eyed "I get to see my brother" when they were holed up in that house was great.

 

Plus, you know you've been hardened when you make a shiv by pulling a walkers arm off, then breaking it, then pulling out the bones and THEN giving it to your bird to wield.  Out of all the gore in this show, that freaked me the most.

post #687 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

  I don't hate Andrea; I just can't stand the writers who have her doing such stupid things. The Governor's reason for the zombie heads in tanks was weak. Anybody should realize this dude is warped and avoid him like the plague.

 

It can be difficult to admit that you've been completely duped. Especially for someone who thinks they're Xena.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Dahlia View Post

Also, how does the Governor not turn from having 4-6 inches of zombie-ichor tainted glass shoved into his skull?

 

They may have already removed his eye.


The characters have also likely ingested a few cups of zombie blood by this point, with how readily it gets sprayed on them. Since they're already infected, bites aren't actually turning them, either. The zombie's mouths are just so laden with various other diseases (with no handy antibiotics) that if you get bit, you're a goner. 

 

It makes me think of a komodo dragon, which also has a deadly bite due to diseases in its mouth. Like the zombies, its mouth is so virulent because it eats corpses.

post #688 of 1655

Really good episode, though the action scenes definitely could have been better directed and choreographed. Really digging Michonne so far and disagree completely with the her characterization as Andrea's magical negro friend. Yes, she's quiet and surly but not for a moment do I think that her as someone who exists merely in service of Andrea's character. They've both got their own agendas.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

It can be difficult to admit that you've been completely duped. Especially for someone who thinks they're Xena.

 

 

Again, it's not that any of her actions aren't understandable from a character standpoint, merely that from the start of the show, she's done one thing after another that, from the outside, comes off as stupid. Kind of weird since I'm getting the feeling we're meant to be seeing her as someone who's found herself in the zombie apocalypse. It'd be one thing if she were a smart, reliable badass who ended up falling for and being duped by the governor, but as it stands she's just an antagonist-detecor.

post #689 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

disagree completely with the her characterization as Andrea's magical negro friend. Yes, she's quiet and surly but not for a moment do I think that her as someone who exists merely in service of Andrea's character.

 

Michonne totally fills that stereotype.  Friend/helper of a white character who advises them about the world around them, possesses seemingly incredible powers, and has no background of their own and presents a one note performance.  Michonne and Andrea have separated, yet her main function continues to be in helping and advising whites, and has had nothing substantial about her revealed so far...so the stereotype remains.  I wish I was making this up.

post #690 of 1655

I'm fine with Michonne. At least there's action on screen when she's around. It would be very interesting to have a flashback involving her. Actually, she'd probably be the only interesting flashback. Maybe Daryl and Merle.

 

Also, to criticize Michonne for being one-note.....every character is one-note. 

post #691 of 1655

We could definitely do with some background information about Michonne, as the nearest we’ve got has been the reference to how she might have known the chained zombies which she dragged around. I guess her background is probably revealed in the comic but I haven’t actually read that.

post #692 of 1655
I'm sorry dude but she doesn't. Merely being someone's friend or helping people out does not suddenly make her the magical negro. If that were so, then Daryl is one, as are Glen, Hershel and various other people. You're right in saying that we don't know much about her, but being secretive is part of her personality. The stereotype exists as a way of describing a minority who has very little inner life and exists only as a way of imparting lessons to other people but fact is, Michonne's playing a pretty selfish game. She was doing that when she left Andrea, when she went to the prison to get help for her bullet wound and when she left the group to try kill the governor.
post #693 of 1655

Double

post #694 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

every character is one-note. 

 

Does every character also have one facial expression?  The one note thing also ties into lack of backstory...


Edited by Ambler - 12/4/12 at 10:02am
post #695 of 1655

Michonne has more than one facial expression, man.

 

She has two.

 

Anyway, no one on this show is going to win awards for stretching their acting talents.

post #696 of 1655

I don't get all the grief.  I love Michonne and her scowl.  I understand she had more to do in the comic, but she's still 1000X more interesting and watchable than virtually all the other women characters on the show combined. 

post #697 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

I'm sorry dude but she doesn't. Merely being someone's friend or helping people out does not suddenly make her the magical negro.

 

But that is exactly what the stereotype is.  The stereotype exists independent of your opinion.  And so far, that has been her only function, as a helper/guide for white characters.  Literally.  How can you deny this?  Her other forms of self preservation are a foregone conclusion seeing as how she lives in a zombie apocalypse.  Other than slicing zombies and rednecks in half and taking the Governor's eye...what has she done in 8 episodes of screen time other than help Andrea and her ex-buddies?  That has been her literal function as a character.  No background, no inner life, no subtext, little to no variation in facial expressions and temperament.  Her suddenly appearing in the middle of Merle and his buddies in the clear-view woods as if she was the Predator is about as magical as it gets in that universe.  She embodies the stereotype whether you like it or not.

post #698 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

Michonne totally fills that stereotype.  Friend/helper of a white character who advises them about the world around them, possesses seemingly incredible powers, and has no background of their own and presents a one note performance.  Michonne and Andrea have separated, yet her main function continues to be in helping and advising whites, and has had nothing substantial about her revealed so far...so the stereotype remains.  I wish I was making this up.

 

Completely disagree.  She's in the business of surviving and has managed to do on her own, and dragging along one hapless boob and two zombie helpers, what the whole Rick party has been struggling to do.  Her backstory and agenda are ripe for discovery because she herself is an interesting character, as opposed to, say, T-Dog, who WAS everything you're saying and wasn't even given enough to provoke even the remotest kind of curiosity. 

 

All that said, I'm not defending the writers, who have an appalling record when it comes to women and people of color, but considering Michonne has got all of that against her, I'd say the actress and the character are doing remarkably well.

post #699 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

Michonne has more than one facial expression, man.

 

She has two.

 

Anyway, no one on this show is going to win awards for stretching their acting talents.

 

I'm all out of rep to give but this gets two and a half Bierkos from me. 

post #700 of 1655

I think Michonne's first appearance, and initial screen times, were very much the magical negro, as defined and explained by Ambler. However, I'd also say that the character is slowly, slowly moving away from that role and stereotype. I do think the actress (forgive me for not looking her name up) has been able to imbue Michonne with humanity and some depth, despite the dearth of dialogue. When S3 started out, she was entirely under the shadow of that trope, but she's been moving away from it for the last few episodes.

 

And I just saw this:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

Completely disagree.  She's in the business of surviving and has managed to do on her own, and dragging along one hapless boob and two zombie helpers, what the whole Rick party has been struggling to do.  Her backstory and agenda are ripe for discovery because she herself is an interesting character, as opposed to, say, T-Dog, who WAS everything you're saying and wasn't even given enough to provoke even the remotest kind of curiosity. 

 

All that said, I'm not defending the writers, who have an appalling record when it comes to women and people of color, but considering Michonne has got all of that against her, I'd say the actress and the character are doing remarkably well.

 

I agree with this, but I think it's only the latter 3-4 episodes that we've been able to see there's more to her than Andrea's badass katana minority buddy.

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