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The Walking Dead Season 3 - Page 15

post #701 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

I don't get all the grief.  I love Michonne and her scowl.  I understand she had more to do in the comic, but she's still 1000X more interesting and watchable than virtually all the other women characters on the show combined. 

 

I'm not saying people can't enjoy Michonne.  Personally I don't find her interesting or enjoyable at all.  But these historical stereotypes are there, whether people want to acknowledge them or not.  I was speaking about that.  They don't disappear because of denial or attempts to cover or explain them away (she's being selfish!).  Whether the writers are aware of what they're doing or not is irrelevant really...ignorance does not excuse irresponsibility.  Personally I'm sick to death of these stereotypes being regularly slotted into mainstream TV and movies.  It's lazy and insulting.  It's my own personal gripe, and I'm not asking anyone to side with me...my only responses were to people trying to deny their presence on this show.

post #702 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

But that is exactly what the stereotype is.  The stereotype exists independent of your opinion.  And so far, that has been her only function, as a helper/guide for white characters.  Literally.  How can you deny this?  Her other forms of self preservation are a foregone conclusion seeing as how she lives in a zombie apocalypse.  Other than slicing zombies and rednecks in half and taking the Governor's eye...what has she done in 8 episodes of screen time other than help Andrea and her ex-buddies?  That has been her literal function as a character.  No background, no inner life, no subtext, little to no variation in facial expressions and temperament.  Her suddenly appearing in the middle of Merle and his buddies in the clear-view woods as if she was the Predator is about as magical as it gets in that universe.  She embodies the stereotype whether you like it or not.

 

What was she doing at the Governor's house then?  That's not to help Andrea or anyone else, except maybe the world.  What is anybody on this show doing other than self-preservation--how is that more or less stereotypical than any one of them?  The writing leaves a lot to be desired, and you've got a legit gripe when it comes to the show in general,  but not this character.  Point out to me another TV show that has this exact character, which should be easy to do if she's such a stereotype. 

post #703 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

I'm not saying people can't enjoy Michonne.  Personally I don't find her interesting or enjoyable at all.  But these historical stereotypes are there, whether people want to acknowledge them or not.  I was speaking about that.  They don't disappear because of denial or attempts to cover or explain them away (she's being selfish!).  Whether the writers are aware of what they're doing or not is irrelevant really...ignorance does not excuse irresponsibility.  Personally I'm sick to death of these stereotypes being regularly slotted into mainstream TV and movies.  It's lazy and insulting.  It's my own personal gripe, and I'm not asking anyone to side with me...my only responses were to people trying to deny their presence on this show.


Again, I think you've got a legit gripe with the show and with TV in general, but not this character.  I am a woman and I can tell you that Michonne is not the usual female stereotype we see on TV.  Lori, Andrea, even Maggie--all female stereotypes.  Sophia, yes.  Maggie's sister, yes.  Andrea's sister, yes.  The lady who "gave up" and committed suicide?  Yes.  Michonne, no.  Again, just point out another character on TV that justifies your argument that Michonne is a stereotype.

post #704 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I think Michonne's first appearance, and initial screen times, were very much the magical negro, as defined and explained by Ambler. However, I'd also say that the character is slowly, slowly moving away from that role and stereotype. I do think the actress (forgive me for not looking her name up) has been able to imbue Michonne with humanity and some depth, despite the dearth of dialogue. When S3 started out, she was entirely under the shadow of that trope, but she's been moving away from it for the last few episodes.

 

And I just saw this:

 

 

 

I agree with this, but I think it's only the latter 3-4 episodes that we've been able to see there's more to her than Andrea's badass katana minority buddy.

 

I am perfectly willing to change my mind about Michonne...but I still don't see much progress with her.  By now most white characters would have some kind of poignant scene where they explain their background and/or an anecdotal story about themselves to flesh their character out.  We're half way through the season and nothing of the sort has been giving to Michonne.

 

And people can't deny what they're doing with the black men on this show...that's downright blatant.  It's really kind of disturbing to me the lengths people will go to deny this stuff.  I hope Tyrese bucks this trend.

post #705 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post


Again, I think you've got a legit gripe with the show and with TV in general, but not this character.  I am a woman and I can tell you that Michonne is not the usual female stereotype we see on TV.  Lori, Andrea, even Maggie--all female stereotypes.  Sophia, yes.  Maggie's sister, yes.  Andrea's sister, yes.  The lady who "gave up" and committed suicide?  Yes.  Michonne, no.  Again, just point out another character on TV that justifies your argument that Michonne is a stereotype.

 

I think we're talking about two different things...Michonne is not the usual TV female stereotype, she fits a different one, that of the magical negro, which is historically prevalent in entertainment.

 

And I never said the other women weren't treated badly by the writers...on the previous page I said the show has a disturbing streak regarding not only race, but sexuality and masculinity...I should have added femininity, but that was what I meant. 

post #706 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

What was she doing at the Governor's house then? 

 

To end his little white daughter's life...she helped her.  Magical negro.  

 

That is sort of half kidding, but seriously, it's the only result of her being there (along with taking the Governor's eye).  Why she wanted to kill the Governor, who knows?  If she DID kill him, she would have effectively saved Rick and his crew...more helping whites.  Now if she wanted to kill him because he raped her or something, then you would finally have some backstory and her having a better reason to be on the show.  

 

I'm not trying to be snarky either...but I'm not making any of it up.

post #707 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

But that is exactly what the stereotype is.  The stereotype exists independent of your opinion.  And so far, that has been her only function, as a helper/guide for white characters.  Literally.  How can you deny this?  Her other forms of self preservation are a foregone conclusion seeing as how she lives in a zombie apocalypse.  Other than slicing zombies and rednecks in half and taking the Governor's eye...what has she done in 8 episodes of screen time other than help Andrea and her ex-buddies?  That has been her literal function as a character.  No background, no inner life, no subtext, little to no variation in facial expressions and temperament.  Her suddenly appearing in the middle of Merle and his buddies in the clear-view woods as if she was the Predator is about as magical as it gets in that universe.  She embodies the stereotype whether you like it or not.

 

Come on, Insisting that you're right whether I agree with you or not is not going to suddenly make you right. And don't twist my words, she's helped people but it's by no means been her only function. I also disagree that she's been given no inner life or subtext. Carrying around the 2 zombies (possibly brothers), being so quick to catch on that the army guys were attacked (has she received some sort of training?), being so attached to her sword that she'll break into an office for it, leaving Andrea despite their friendship, killing the governor's daughter for no other reason than to piss him off... those are all things that, while they haven't been fully examined, are indicative of an inner life and are ripe for exploration.

 

I'm making it sound like I think she's the world's greatest character. She isn't. But I do think she's done more and is more interesting than you give her credit for.

post #708 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

 

Come on, Insisting that you're right whether I agree with you or not is not going to suddenly make you right. 

 

 

I'm not right...the stereotype is...I said it is there whether you want to deny or not.  Michonne is black (as in negro).  She has magical powers (as you said, she was so quick to catch on that the army guys were attacked, that Governor is dangerous, and having no evidence to back any of it up, not to mention her materializing out of thin air in the middle of Merle and his men...it is literally a magical sixth sense she possesses at this point.  It is all there and it is the majority of her function.  Bits of other business aside (surviving zombies/Governor's troops) THAT is the stereotype.  How can you deny this?  Her ratio for helping people/doing other things is about 85/15...and those other things are necessary for her own survival (she can't continue on in the show if she's killed).

 

Quote:

I also disagree that she's been given no inner life or subtext. Carrying around the 2 zombies (possibly brothers), being so quick to catch on that the army guys were attacked (has she received some sort of training?), being so attached to her sword that she'll break into an office for it, leaving Andrea despite their friendship, killing the governor's daughter for no other reason than to piss him off... those are all things that, while they haven't been fully examined, are indicative of an inner life and are ripe for exploration.

 

Dude, none of that is inner life or subtext.  

 

Carrying around two zombies?  This shows that Michonne is smart and insightful...and so is the magical negro.  I said this above, but catching on that the army guys were attacked?  Michonne has some sort of sixth sense....and so does the magical negro.  Breaking into the office for her sword?  Seeing as how that's her only weapon...and being attached to a weapon is not an example of an inner life, it is an example of a survival instinct, which everyone has...to survive she needs her sword.  No survival, no character...this is a zombie apocalypse, survival techniques for anyone still alive is a foregone conclusion and does not disprove the magical negro stereotype.  And it does not change or disprove my other points.  She left Andrea because Andrea didn't want to leave...she couldn't force her to come with her...she'd tried...so she left.  What was she supposed to do?  And what does she do next?  Help Rick and his team.  And killing the Governor's daughter was in effect putting a walker out of its misery...a walker that happened to be a white girl.  Are we sensing a pattern here?  And she didn't do it to piss the Governor off...when she entered the room and found her, she was very concerned about her...when she realized she was a walker, she was about to kill her, and then the Governor showed up.  She was going to kill her regardless, to put her out of her misery.

post #709 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

To end his little white daughter's life...she helped her.  Magical negro.  

 

That is sort of half kidding, but seriously, it's the only result of her being there (along with taking the Governor's eye).  Why she wanted to kill the Governor, who knows?  If she DID kill him, she would have effectively saved Rick and his crew...more helping whites.  Now if she wanted to kill him because he raped her or something, then you would finally have some backstory and her having a better reason to be on the show.  

 

I'm not trying to be snarky either...but I'm not making any of it up.

 

I know what the Magical Negro stereotype is.  She's not it.  She's not a stereotype because her character is enough of an enigma to have dimensions to it that you're not seeing.  And everything she has done hasn't been to magically help the white protagonists.  She got something out of dragging Andrea around--company.  Maybe she's even in love with her, who knows.  I don't see Michonne as a stereotype, either as a female or as a person of color, and that's saying a lot for this particular show. 

 

I think it's a stretch.  You could spit and hit another character on TWD that fits a stereotype, and I think you hurt your argument when you go after one that actually has some angles.

post #710 of 1655
If anything Michonne's silence and insanity have been making situations worse than they have to be. Doesn't that make her the opposite of a magical negro? An unmagical negro, if you will?
post #711 of 1655

i Am durnk. toook one drikn evey timE ambller typd magical negrow .

 

fUck

post #712 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

 

I know what the Magical Negro stereotype is.  She's not it.  

 

Magical negro:

 

Supporting stock character in American cinema who is portrayed coming to the aid of a film's white protagonists.  These characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have been a long tradition in American fiction.  They also have no apparent life of their own.

 

She is it.

 

Her other minor activities aside (surviving zombie apocalypse, dealing with the Governor) are all forms of self preservation, and do not eliminate her other primary function...so far.  And what dimensions am I not seeing?  You said she is an enigma.  This is exactly what the magical negro stereotype includes.  She got something out of dragging Andrea around?  What?  It's not stated in the narrative.  And regardless, her reason for helping Andrea does not change the fact that she helped her.  Having a reason does not eliminate the stereotype. 

 

If Michonne had something else going on in her life, it would be harder to prove the stereotype...but as of now, she doesn't.  

post #713 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

If anything Michonne's silence and insanity have been making situations worse than they have to be. Doesn't that make her the opposite of a magical negro?

 

No.  It's a dramatic TV show, so there has to be conflict.  Many of the magical negroes in other films, TV and literature end up causing problems for the other characters.

post #714 of 1655

hEAded to hopital n0w

post #715 of 1655

Send me the bill!

post #716 of 1655

Hi, this is Matchstick's sister. He's on an ambulance right now, but he wanted me to type this for him - to add to your Walking Dead discussion. LOVE the show, by the way! Andrea is my fave!

 

Anyway, here's what he wanted to say:

 

The movie Heat had a magical Waingro.

post #717 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

I'm not right...the stereotype is...I said it is there whether you want to deny or not.  Michonne is black (as in negro).  She has magical powers (as you said, she was so quick to catch on that the army guys were attacked, that Governor is dangerous, and having no evidence to back any of it up, not to mention her materializing out of thin air in the middle of Merle and his men...it is literally a magical sixth sense she possesses at this point.  It is all there and it is the majority of her function.  Bits of other business aside (surviving zombies/Governor's troops) THAT is the stereotype.  How can you deny this?  Her ratio for helping people/doing other things is about 85/15...and those other things are necessary for her own survival (she can't continue on in the show if she's killed).

 

 

There is more to the magical negro trope than simply someone who gets shit done. It's also about getting shit done almost exclusively in service of someone else. 

 

Quote:

Carrying around two zombies?  This shows that Michonne is smart and insightful...and so is the magical negro. 

 

 

I wasn't referring merely to her carrying the 2 zombies around but rather the implication that they were people she cared about. Yes, she's an enigma but not because "eh, who cares about the black person anyway?" It's rather that being secretive loner is a critical part of her personality. I specifically brought up those bits because I saw them as hints to a slowly unfolding backstory.

 

Quote:
 I said this above, but catching on that the army guys were attacked?  Michonne has some sort of sixth sense....and so does the magical negro.  Breaking into the office for her sword?  Seeing as how that's her only weapon...and being attached to a weapon is not an example of an inner life, it is an example of a survival instinct, which everyone has...to survive she needs her sword.  No survival, no character...this is a zombie apocalypse, survival techniques for anyone still alive is a foregone conclusion and does not disprove the magical negro stereotype.  And it does not change or disprove my other points.  She left Andrea because Andrea didn't want to leave...she couldn't force her to come with her...she'd tried...so she left.  What was she supposed to do?  And what does she do next?  Help Rick and his team.  

 

You're arguing against yourself here. The magical negro would figure out a way to save Andrea, not abandon her because she was "slowing her down".

 

 

Quote:

And killing the Governor's daughter was in effect putting a walker out of its misery...a walker that happened to be a white girl.  Are we sensing a pattern here?  And she didn't do it to piss the Governor off...when she entered the room and found her, she was very concerned about her...when she realized she was a walker, she was about to kill her, and then the Governor showed up.  She was going to kill her regardless, to put her out of her misery.

 

I didn't see that at all. She was absolutely ruthless about killing the girl and it had nothing to do with putting her out of her misery. To do it then and there was a petulant move on her part. The only tenderness she displayed was before she realized the girl was a zombie.

 

Anyway, I've made my stance clear, not to mention that being a white person, I'm getting a bit worried about typing "negro" this much, so I'll leave the argument there.

post #718 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

 

The magical negro would figure out a way to save Andrea, not abandon her because she was "slowing her down".

 

I think this kind of explains why Michonne went to kill the Governor, no? 

 

 

Quote:

I didn't see that at all. She was absolutely ruthless about killing the girl and it had nothing to do with putting her out of her misery. To do it then and there was a petulant move on her part. The only tenderness she displayed was before she realized the girl was a zombie.

 

This is a minor point I think.  All my other evidence stands.  Michonne fits the traditional magical neg--  wait, don't wanna kill Kev Matchstick.

 

 

Quote:
being a white person, I'm getting a bit worried about typing "negro" this much, so I'll leave the argument there.

 

The irony is so thick you could choke on it...

post #719 of 1655

I'm assuming she wanted to kill the Governor because he sent people to kill her, aside from the Andrea angle. After her fight with the Governor and Andrea's intrusion she realized that was hopeless. She didn't want anyone, especially Andrea, to know that it was her who did the deed. She just wanted to make him disappear.

post #720 of 1655

Again, the writers on TWD have major issues with creating women characters and people of color.  I'm not disputing that. So, you're taking a show with mostly flimsily written, one-dimensional characters (don't get me wrong, I love TWD, but this is a fact), pulling out ONE of those characters, pointing out aspects of her that could easily apply to virtually any other character on the show, and calling her a Magical Negro stereotype.  I think that's the definition of reaching.  You justify non-Magical Negro attributes that Evi points out as somehow making her even more Magical Negro-like.  

 

Michael Clarke Duncan in The Green Mile -- that's a Magical Negro stereotype with no need for the kinds of adjustments and justifications you're making for Michonne. 

post #721 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

pulling out ONE of those characters, pointing out aspects of her that could easily apply to virtually any other character on the show,

 

No, they can't.  Who else on the show has all the following:

 

- A sixth sense to, as Evi pointed out, know about the raid on the soldiers, and that the Governor is bad news with no other information?  

 

- The magical ability to be invisible to hunters in a wide open area and suddenly drop in on them like the Predator?  

 

- No background (besides T-Dawg), and who's number one goal on the show has been to assist the white characters.

 

All of those are what make up the magical N-word (edited for all the sensitive white people here)...Michonne has every one of those qualities, with very little else going on.  She still has to fight to survive, and that's basically the only other business she's been given.  The stereotype does not have to exclude other bits of plot mechanics.

 

It's like shouting in a hurricane.

post #722 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanburger View Post

I'm assuming she wanted to kill the Governor because he sent people to kill her, aside from the Andrea angle. After her fight with the Governor and Andrea's intrusion she realized that was hopeless. She didn't want anyone, especially Andrea, to know that it was her who did the deed. She just wanted to make him disappear.


Exactly. She made no attempt to seek Andrea out (like Daryl wanted to w/ Merle). She made no attempt to explain herself to Andrea. She made no attempt to convince Andrea to go with her. 

 

She was there for herself, not in service to anyone else. Hell, she didn't even help rescue the captives. She just used the rescue as a diversion so she could get her revenge.

 

Michonne as presented has been an extremely selfish character. She doesn't even care to speak to other people except when absolutely necessary. For this show, I find her an interesting and refreshing change of pace. The idea of her trying to adapt to Rick's "team" is promising.

post #723 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post


Exactly. She made no attempt to seek Andrea out (like Daryl wanted to w/ Merle). She made no attempt to explain herself to Andrea. She made no attempt to convince Andrea to go with her.

 

Kind of pointless to do that when she's pointing a gun at you.

post #724 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

No, they can't.  Who else on the show has all the following:

 

- A sixth sense to, as Evi pointed out, know about the raid on the soldiers, and that the Governor is bad news with no other information?  

 

- The magical ability to be invisible to hunters in a wide open area and suddenly drop in on them like the Predator?  

 

- No background (besides T-Dawg), and who's number one goal on the show has been to assist the white characters.

 

All of those are what make up the magical N-word (edited for all the sensitive white people here)...Michonne has every one of those qualities, with very little else going on.  She still has to fight to survive, and that's basically the only other business she's been given.  The stereotype does not have to exclude other bits of plot mechanics.

 

It's like shouting in a hurricane.

 

Glenn.

 

Go to resources guys. Kills zombies while tied to a chair. Slips in an out of infested cities and suburbs. Pulls Maggie. Constantly helping dem whites! He even made reference to T-Dog's background. That's how magical HE is. He knew stuff about T-Dog. And Glenn is there only to follow orders and service the group.

 

But, as yt says, you can pretty much draw out faults on any of these thinly drawn characters.

 

Folks, we are watching a fun but poorly written show. I sort of can't get enough. But I also can get enough.

 

It's confusing.

post #725 of 1655

.

 

Edited by stevehauk - 12/4/12 at 4:49pm
post #726 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehauk View Post

Michonne's walkers = ....

 

 

Dude, is that a spoiler?


Edited by Evi - 12/4/12 at 2:25pm
post #727 of 1655
At this point, it really shouldn't be. Too late for it to feel important anymore.

Magic negro.

Yeah, feels weird.
post #728 of 1655

.


Edited by stevehauk - 12/4/12 at 4:49pm
post #729 of 1655

If it's from the comic and has not been on the show yet it's a spoiler.

post #730 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehauk View Post

I don't see them bringing up her pets again, do you?

 

Yes. I'm sure she'll discuss her past at some point and, even if Andrea never asks about those two walkers, she would likely bring it up herself when the right time arose.

 

Still, thanks for telling us all. I guess.

post #731 of 1655

.


Edited by stevehauk - 12/4/12 at 2:47pm
post #732 of 1655
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

- A sixth sense

 

 

Michonne's sixth sense vs Zombie Psychic Dale NEEDS to happen

 

 

post #733 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehauk View Post

OK. They were from 'Rob's Rent-a-walker'. That better? Sheech!

 

 

How about, instead of getting pissy, you just edit your post in spoiler-tags so people can have the choice of whether they want to know.

post #734 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

 

Glenn.

 

Go to resources guys. Kills zombies while tied to a chair. Slips in an out of infested cities and suburbs. Pulls Maggie. Constantly helping dem whites! He even made reference to T-Dog's background. That's how magical HE is. He knew stuff about T-Dog. And Glenn is there only to follow orders and service the group.

 

But, as yt says, you can pretty much draw out faults on any of these thinly drawn characters.

 

Folks, we are watching a fun but poorly written show. I sort of can't get enough. But I also can get enough.

 

It's confusing.

 

Pretty much agree with this, although Glenn has way more personality than Michonne, as well as having a relationship with other characters that we saw got developed.  But he still has been typecast as the runner type, assisstant type just not as severely as Michonne.  That doesn't excuse the writers for creating bad characters or Ambler's point that Michonne is a "magic negro" 

 

I think every post from now on has to include that phrase

post #735 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

 

Glenn.

 

Go to resources guys. Kills zombies while tied to a chair. Slips in an out of infested cities and suburbs. Pulls Maggie. Constantly helping dem whites! He even made reference to T-Dog's background. That's how magical HE is. He knew stuff about T-Dog. And Glenn is there only to follow orders and service the group.

 

But, as yt says, you can pretty much draw out faults on any of these thinly drawn characters.

 

Folks, we are watching a fun but poorly written show. I sort of can't get enough. But I also can get enough.

 

It's confusing.

 

Yup, totally disproves Michonne as a magical...you know.  What was I thinking?  

 

And isn't Glenn also the only other major character who is a minority?  Them damn magical minorities!  

post #736 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I think Michonne's first appearance, and initial screen times, were very much the magical negro, as defined and explained by Ambler. However, I'd also say that the character is slowly, slowly moving away from that role and stereotype. I do think the actress (forgive me for not looking her name up) has been able to imbue Michonne with humanity and some depth, despite the dearth of dialogue. When S3 started out, she was entirely under the shadow of that trope, but she's been moving away from it for the last few episodes.

 

 

On the same level of Rick and Daryl, Michonne is one of my favorite characters. I think Danai has played her with more depth than people are giving her credit for. I don't need for her to tell me she's been through some shit and that she's not giving anyone anything unless she absolutely has to...you can see her boundaries throughout the season...and how she is, like Rick, going to come to a place where she realizes that she can't/doesn't want to be alone in this world.

 

Michonne, like the Governor, is a character who is starting out ambiguous, but who will be revealed in time. People need to have the patience for this to happen, in a season where we have two new locations and a ton of new characters brought in to develop a war that is going to last over two seasons.

 

And I'll always take exception to people (not you per se, Michael) calling out the acting on the series as bad. I guess I'm just simple and moved by "bad acting", but I think this cast is working their asses off this season.  *shrugs*

post #737 of 1655
Thread Starter 

She knew the Governor was bad just because she needed to know, because the series now doesn't want to waste any time spinning its wheels and spending down time with awful characters. It didn't come about organically. Much the same with her  huge vendetta against the Governor. That fight should've been a lot more cathartic and intense if their relationship had had a chance to simmer, instead it was just an awesome fight. It would be like having Rick kill Shane in Season 1 because he aimed at him for a second in the woods.

 

Also, she pulled a sword on the Governor ( I can't remember the context), so shouldn't he have a little reason to try and kill her? Rick's done the same for similar threats.

post #738 of 1655

I knew the Governor was bad news the moment I saw him. Wasn't it obvious, in this new age, when someone forces you into their camp at gunpoint, takes your weapons, and gives you a "room and board" that they may not be on the up and up?
 

post #739 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

No, they can't.  Who else on the show has all the following:

 

- A sixth sense to, as Evi pointed out, know about the raid on the soldiers, and that the Governor is bad news with no other information?  

 

- The magical ability to be invisible to hunters in a wide open area and suddenly drop in on them like the Predator?  

 

- No background (besides T-Dawg), and who's number one goal on the show has been to assist the white characters.

 

All of those are what make up the magical N-word (edited for all the sensitive white people here)...Michonne has every one of those qualities, with very little else going on.  She still has to fight to survive, and that's basically the only other business she's been given.  The stereotype does not have to exclude other bits of plot mechanics.

 

It's like shouting in a hurricane.

 

Daryl has a sixth sense, can be invisible, and his number one goal has been to assist the white characters.   

post #740 of 1655

Magical redneck.

 

Ancient adversaries who must learn to work together.

post #741 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

Magical negro:

 

Supporting stock character in American cinema who is portrayed coming to the aid of a film's white protagonists.  These characters, who often possess special insight or mystical powers, have been a long tradition in American fiction.  They also have no apparent life of their own.

 

 

 

 

That fits Oscar and T-Dawg to a 't' if their magical power was to needlessly die to make room for the next magical negro.

 

In all seriousness, the character who most fits the trope of magical negro would be Hershel.  Except for the negro part.

post #742 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

I am perfectly willing to change my mind about Michonne...but I still don't see much progress with her.  By now most white characters would have some kind of poignant scene where they explain their background and/or an anecdotal story about themselves to flesh their character out.  We're half way through the season and nothing of the sort has been giving to Michonne.

 

I like this.  I like that she's playing her cards close to her chest.  I'm sick of when you have a "tough as nails, reticent character" for a couple of weeks, then they have a breakdown and suddenly they are part of the gang.


I think the closes she's come so far was towards the end of that episode where she needed their help, she was really fucked after the Boss Battle, but couldn't quite come out and say it, although her body language and expression screamed it.  That made me appreciate her silence and general closed offness from the previous episodes more.

 

And in the comics

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

she's an enigma for fucking ages.  Spoilered because it could suggest longevity in the character.

post #743 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Black_Dahlia View Post

 

the character who most fits the trope of magical negro would be Hershel.  Except for the negro part.

 

Nope.  Hershel had a backstory and a life.

post #744 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

Daryl has a sixth sense, can be invisible, and his number one goal has been to assist the white characters.   

 

Daryl's goal was preservation of his group...safety in numbers...if they died, he was more at risk, therefore he was really looking out for himself.  Though he did become more caring as the seasons went on.  Michonne is part of no group and is still helping them...that is more closely aligned with the magical N-word stereotype.  The loner with no backstory going around helping whites characters.

post #745 of 1655

     Quote:

Originally Posted by Evi View Post

Really good episode, though the action scenes definitely could have been better directed and choreographed. Really digging Michonne so far and disagree completely with the her characterization as Andrea's magical negro friend. Yes, she's quiet and surly but not for a moment do I think that her as someone who exists merely in service of Andrea's character. They've both got their own agendas.

 

Correct, and the other big takeaway from these past several episodes is that Andrea and Michonne spent a lot of time together, but the Andrea Michonne got to know was alone and sick at the time they met. It's easy to have a "close" relationship with someone when the relationship isn't really tested (except by the shared need to stay alive).

 

Now Andrea has options, and she likes those options. Andrea isn't just in Woodbury; she's outright sleeping with The Governor. She's in line to potentially become First Lady of Woodbury. I have to think Michonne sees the seduction, though she also sees through it. Maybe I have that Michonne-gene in me, because there are times in life when I'm prepared to make a case I'm 99% sure of, but I don't feel the other side is prepared to listen, so I'll just stop talking. That's pretty much what I've seen in Michonne to date.

 

Andrea should certainly give her the benefit of the doubt, but she wasn't doing so in that moment with Penny, etc. So Michonne backed off. (They also didn't have a whole lot of time to catch up, either. All heck was breaking loose, and people were going to start looking for The Governor, and Michonne needed to split.)

post #746 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

Daryl's goal was preservation of his group...safety in numbers...if they died, he was more at risk, therefore he was really looking out for himself.  Though he did become more caring as the seasons went on.

 

What makes you think this is true?  Did that ever happen or was that ever explicitly stated?  That's not my take on him at all.  I think you just made that up to support your conclusion. 

post #747 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by yt View Post

 

What makes you think this is true?  Did that ever happen or was that ever explicitly stated?  That's not my take on him at all.  I think you just made that up to support your conclusion. 

 

Much like people filling in the blanks for Michonne's non character?

 

In all seriousness, it is no more of a stretch than believing he is helping the group because he cares.  Neither is stated in the narrative.  Daryl was initially incredibly angry and kept to himself and seemed to care nothing about the group until Carol got him to loosen up.  My reasoning is, since Daryl is part of a group, it is in his best interest to keep everyone alive, seeing as how the most basic survival tactic is safety in numbers.  And seeing as how angry he was at everyone initially, this is the only reasonable explanation I have for him helping to keep everyone alive during that time.

 

Which makes Michonne's behavior all the more suspect.  She is really the only character to come out of nowhere by herself, seek no group dynamic, and spend most of her screen time helping white characters.  I would think someone as strategic as her would take advantage of the safety in numbers tactic.  Looked at objectively, it's quite blatant.  

post #748 of 1655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

 

Much like people filling in the blanks for Michonne's non character?

 

In all seriousness, it is no more of a stretch than believing he is helping the group because he cares.  Neither is stated in the narrative.  Daryl was initially incredibly angry and kept to himself and seemed to care nothing about the group until Carol got him to loosen up.  My reasoning is, since Daryl is part of a group, it is in his best interest to keep everyone alive, seeing as how the most basic survival tactic is safety in numbers.  And seeing as how angry he was at everyone initially, this is the only reasonable explanation I have for him helping to keep everyone alive during that time.

 

Which makes Michonne's behavior all the more suspect.  She is really the only character to come out of nowhere by herself, seek no group dynamic, and spend most of her screen time helping white characters.  I would think someone as strategic as her would take advantage of the safety in numbers tactic.  Looked at objectively, it's quite blatant.  

 

That's you projecting your own nature onto Daryl, not anything that's explicitly written into the character on the page or onscreen. 

 

And Michonne can't simultaneously "seek no group dynamic" and "spend most of her screen time helping white characters."  Those are contradictory arguments.  She seeks no group dynamic -- she seeks one companion, Andrea.  Finding the prison people gives her a chance to get back into the little town and kill the Governor.  That's her strategy.  She's not helping them.  She's helping herself. 

 

I'm telling you, criticize the writing and the characters all you want and half the time I will agree with you, but trying to cram this character into the Magical Negro stereotype is missing the forest for the trees, in my opinion.

post #749 of 1655

Daryl's backstory: He has a mean brother.

Merle's backstory: He's a mean brother. Racist.

Glenn's backstory: Own's a baseball cap.

Dale's backstory: Was nice. 

T-dog's backstory: Was nice.

Hershel's backstory: Doctor that own's a farm.

Rick's backstory: Carried the weight of the apocalypse on his shoulders before it happened....

post #750 of 1655
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post

I knew the Governor was bad news the moment I saw him. Wasn't it obvious, in this new age, when someone forces you into their camp at gunpoint, takes your weapons, and gives you a "room and board" that they may not be on the up and up?
 

 

Kinda like being locked up in a prison, having your sword taken, and having a crossbow to your head. Just saying in the zombie world, every outsider is going to be treated like that. There are things the Governor does that would simply work to keep a community like Woodbury safe. Other things, they throw in there in order to have a mustache twirler, which Kirkman and Lindeloff both attested to in The Talking Dead. Which makes for a more simple show, which I guess is fine, but the potential was there this season for more.

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