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Homeland - Season 2 - Page 6

post #251 of 316
12/10/12 at 12:42pm

I'm only tired of this thread.

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post #252 of 316
12/10/12 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

I'm only tired of this thread.

Yeah, our critical comments are killing this thread...JUST LIKE THEY KILLED THAT WOMAN!

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post #253 of 316
12/10/12 at 3:44pm

They turned Dana from one of the better written and acted teen characters on TV into a weird, odious, whiny little shit. THERE ARE TERRORISTS TRYING TO KILL YOUR FAMILY YOU FUCKING MONSTER! STOP WITH YOUR FUCKING WHINNING!

 

Carrie is bugging out so much right now, in front of everybody that the fact she hasn't been involuntarily hospitalized is a miracle. Instead she comes and goes as she pleases, even in interogation rooms with high ranking terrorists. And in order to make her being around valuable they have turned the entirety of the CIA into imbeciles.

 

Her brilliant deduction from "Nazir won't run" borders on the supernatural.

 

"These guys always work in pairs" until we need some cheap ass DTV horror movie bullshit with Nazir turning into a damn ninja. Then the FBI dude will go alone into Nazir's crypt and stand around with his back turned to danger to facilitate his throat being slashed. I'm surprised they didn't pan up to reveal Nazir hanging from the roof like Batman.

 

"We'll kill Brody and say it was blowback." So just as the President is giving us props for killing Nazir and taking down his cell we will make it look like his cell is still active, capable of assassinating members of the government in the nation's capital and that we are completely incompetent.

 

And then they go and end with two great scenes with Jessica and Brody, and Carrie and Brody. Pity they're making a thriller and all the good character work they insert doesn't mean much when the plot is nonsense.

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post #254 of 316
12/10/12 at 4:01pm

I admit I started doubting this show big time with 'the old remote control pacemaker trick'.

Even 24 didn't do something as lame as that...

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post #255 of 316
12/10/12 at 4:07pm

Whyyy do I read the showrunner interviews?

 

Quote:
 
Had producers known from the beginning of season 2 that Homeland‘s big bad would perish? “I think the short answer to that is yes,” says executive producer Alex Gansa. “The long answer is we weren’t actually sure how that would happen. But the reason we wanted Walden and Nazir both dead is we wanted to open the possibility that Brody and Carrie could have a happy ending, that their doomed romance was not doomed after all. The only way to make that happen was to off these two antagonists.”

 

 

 

Quote:
So we’ve sort of left the thriller aspects of the show behind and now we come to a very personal story about Carrie and Brody and all the obstacles that lie in the way of them being together. That is what the finale is about.

 

 

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post #256 of 316
12/10/12 at 4:25pm

Another silly thing I just remembered: Galvez bleeding because his stitches were coming out, so he decides to go to the hospital and completely ignores the ambulance and paramedics that were already on the scene. 

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post #257 of 316
12/10/12 at 5:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Carrie is bugging out so much right now, in front of everybody that the fact she hasn't been involuntarily hospitalized is a miracle. Instead she comes and goes as she pleases, even in interogation rooms with high ranking terrorists. And in order to make her being around valuable they have turned the entirety of the CIA into imbeciles.

 

A-men to that. If they don't show any signs of addressing this I won't be back for season 3.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

Another silly thing I just remembered: Galvez bleeding because his stitches were coming out, so he decides to go to the hospital and completely ignores the ambulance and paramedics that were already on the scene. 

 

Yep. Because we have to make the CIA incompetent.

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post #258 of 316
12/10/12 at 5:09pm

I just realized that 2 shows I watch (Dexter & Homeland) have a supporting character that is a cop/agent that's dirty and they're both named Quinn.

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post #259 of 316
12/10/12 at 5:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

They turned Dana from one of the better written and acted teen characters on TV into a weird, odious, whiny little shit. THERE ARE TERRORISTS TRYING TO KILL YOUR FAMILY YOU FUCKING MONSTER! STOP WITH YOUR FUCKING WHINNING!

 

Her brilliant deduction from "Nazir won't run" borders on the supernatural.

 

"These guys always work in pairs" until we need some cheap ass DTV horror movie bullshit with Nazir turning into a damn ninja.

 

Dana doesn't know what's going on. In her world, her boyfriend killed a lady, her dad wouldn't let her tell truth, that same dad is probably a terrorist, and she's locked up WITH CHRIS ALL DAY LONG.

 

Carrie has studied Nazir for years. We've also seen how her mind works, especially when she's off her meds. On offhand remark in the interrogation triggering her to think about something she already subconsciously knew isn't ESP.

 

The "working in pairs" setting you off so badly makes me think you should stop watching and save yourself the stress. A partial team got rushed in, and Carrie was the guy's "pair". More importantly, that had no effect whatsoever on the plot, as Nazir was caught and killed about 2 minutes later. Freaking out over something that inconsequential is just odd.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevehauk View Post

I admit I started doubting this show big time with 'the old remote control pacemaker trick'.

Even 24 didn't do something as lame as that...


That's an actual thing.

 

A real pacemaker company had to revise their "web-ready" line after it was found that they were vulnerable to remote hacking. 

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post #260 of 316
12/10/12 at 5:50pm

This is the article Bromell cites as the inspiration for the pacemaker thing:

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/12/business/12heart-web.html?_r=0

 

So, in far-fetched TV Land, it could possibly happen, but only if the location of the pacemaker's manufacturer box is revealed in an article in the New York Times.

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post #261 of 316
12/10/12 at 6:14pm

I still enjoy watching the show, and I'll probably stay with it as long as Danes and Patinkin are doing their thing (seriously, I just want a show about Saul. I love that character so much). It hasn't been the same since Q&A though. I don't know if there's ever been as clear a demarcation point in any show I've seen. Loved the first season, loved the start of the second season, was completely blown away by Q&A, and it's all been downhill from there.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

and she's locked up WITH CHRIS ALL DAY LONG.

 

This made me laugh more than it probably should have. I'm going to miss Chris "There's a TV in every room!" Brody

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post #262 of 316
12/11/12 at 2:26am

Found this site that apparently has Major Spoilers for the Finale.

 

Not sure if this is legit. But you can be the judge.

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

 

 http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/12/homeland-episode-212-choice-season_11.html

 

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post #263 of 316
12/11/12 at 5:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

Dana doesn't know what's going on. In her world, her boyfriend killed a lady, her dad wouldn't let her tell truth, that same dad is probably a terrorist, and she's locked up WITH CHRIS ALL DAY LONG.

 

Carrie has studied Nazir for years. We've also seen how her mind works, especially when she's off her meds. On offhand remark in the interrogation triggering her to think about something she already subconsciously knew isn't ESP.

 

The "working in pairs" setting you off so badly makes me think you should stop watching and save yourself the stress. A partial team got rushed in, and Carrie was the guy's "pair". More importantly, that had no effect whatsoever on the plot, as Nazir was caught and killed about 2 minutes later. Freaking out over something that inconsequential is just odd.

 

 

Dana knows what's going on better than anyone outside of the CIA. She's privy to what her father is going through better than anyone but Carrie. She hasn't shown even a hint that she recognizes the circumstances. Instead she was literally crying over spilled milk.

 

Going from "Nazir won't run" to "Nazir is still hiding in the tunnels" is ad hoc reasoning. He has to there so what Roya said has to mean something.

 

And after the finale I'm certainly done with this show. Don't you worry yourself. Why if the tunnel stuff didn't matter didn't they have everyone acting like professionals. Carrie says "Wait, there's something weird here." The team stops. They find the crypt. Nazir tries to attack them. They kill him. No one had to act like an idiot and what had to happen happened.  

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post #264 of 316
12/11/12 at 6:51pm

I've seen a show jump the shark with such ferociousness as this one. It's like...they were really trying to keep it together and just said "fuck it" and it fell apart like a house of cards.

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post #265 of 316
12/11/12 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

 

Dana knows what's going on better than anyone outside of the CIA. She's privy to what her father is going through better than anyone but Carrie. She hasn't shown even a hint that she recognizes the circumstances. Instead she was literally crying over spilled milk.

 

Going from "Nazir won't run" to "Nazir is still hiding in the tunnels" is ad hoc reasoning. He has to there so what Roya said has to mean something.

 

And after the finale I'm certainly done with this show. Don't you worry yourself. Why if the tunnel stuff didn't matter didn't they have everyone acting like professionals. Carrie says "Wait, there's something weird here." The team stops. They find the crypt. Nazir tries to attack them. They kill him. No one had to act like an idiot and what had to happen happened.  

 

"We've been through that place over and over and over."

"Well, we're going again."

"I'm telling you, we went through every inch! It's going to be a waste of time."

"Did you check behind stuff?"

"..... fuck."

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post #266 of 316
12/11/12 at 7:25pm

I think more attention should be focused on the fact that Dana actually cried over spilled milk. It would be like if they were at a farm and she went over to some chickens and said "1..2...3..." then Brody yells "Stop it! Not all of them have hatched yet!"

 

How, HOW HOW HOW, can a writing team that came up with something as great as the interrogation scene in Q&A turn around and write something as goofy as that?

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post #267 of 316
12/11/12 at 7:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

I think more attention should be focused on the fact that Dana actually cried over spilled milk. It would be like if they were at a farm and she went over to some chickens and said "1..2...3..." then Brody yells "Stop it! Not all of them have hatched yet!"

 

How, HOW HOW HOW, can a writing team that came up with something as great as the interrogation scene in Q&A turn around and write something as goofy as that?

Yeah this is getting weird so here is a question. Has there ever been a show that was moving along so perfectly that suddenly took a turn like this? Seriously in all of television?

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post #268 of 316
12/11/12 at 7:49pm

I don't know what this thread would do if the phrase 'jump the shark' hadn't been coined.

 

I'm rather excited for a finale focused on Carrie and Brody rather than Nazir.

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post #269 of 316
12/11/12 at 8:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

I think more attention should be focused on the fact that Dana actually cried over spilled milk. It would be like if they were at a farm and she went over to some chickens and said "1..2...3..." then Brody yells "Stop it! Not all of them have hatched yet!"

 

 

That was when I knew the show had officially shit the bed for me. Hahaha. LITERALLY crying. Over spilled milk. My god.

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post #270 of 316
12/11/12 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post

I don't know what this thread would do if the phrase 'jump the shark' hadn't been coined.

 

I'm rather excited for a finale focused on Carrie and Brody rather than Nazir.

 

I propose that for this thread's purposes we replace "jump the shark" with "hit-and-run the lady."

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post #271 of 316
12/12/12 at 7:04am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

I propose that for this thread's purposes we replace "jump the shark" with "hit-and-run the lady."

It's weird to think that moment occurred in Q&A. At the time, my eyes rolled, but I didn't think it would lead to that many bad scenes.

 

However, I think the real issue with the show has been the Nazir-sneaks-into-the-US stuff, which has been ludicrous from the very start. I'm baffled as to how a show that can do something as delicately observed as that Jessica/Brody scene in the last episode can have those moments bump up against the bad Dana scene* or the entire premise that a group of trained terrorist hunters couldn't find the #1 terrorist in the world inside an abandoned warehouse. 

 

The laziness of the Nazir stuff these last few episodes proves the showrunners are telling the truth in that interview above: They're interested in the Carrie / Brody love story, so they moved the story to that place in a way that was inorganic and silly. Let's face it: With Lewis and Danes winning Emmys last year, they aren't going to be dying off anytime soon. The only way to sustain Lewis' time on the show was to kill Warden and Nazir. I just think the way they went about it was lousy.

 

* NOTE: I trash that scene, in part, because Dana had been written really well for a season and a half. It's like they hired an intern to write all of her dialogue since the middle of the season.

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post #272 of 316
12/12/12 at 7:39am

This show fitted the shark with a suicide vest.

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post #273 of 316
12/13/12 at 7:40pm

The Hollywood Prospectus podcast on the Grantland Network had a great couple minutes at the beginning of their Homeland discussion this week about "the cult of Chris Brody", including an impassioned plea to "Let Chris Brody be great!" It had me laughing really hard.

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post #274 of 316
12/14/12 at 4:22pm

I've got a bad feeling that sunday we'll see that ton of explosives in action.

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post #275 of 316
12/16/12 at 8:06pm

Hmmm, Brody on the run. Likely much less screen time for his family. Yeah okay I'll watch next season.

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post #276 of 316
12/16/12 at 8:22pm

Thought it was pretty great.

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post #277 of 316
12/16/12 at 8:23pm

Saul Berenson's warm smile makes my blackened heart grow three sizes.

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post #278 of 316
12/16/12 at 9:50pm

They blew it.

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post #279 of 316
12/16/12 at 9:50pm

* wink *

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post #280 of 316
12/17/12 at 12:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

They blew it.

Yeah, I agree. They had it all setup to knock off Brody, but lacked the balls to pull the trigger.

My favorite scene if the episode: "you are the f***ing smartest and the f***ing dumbest person I have ever known." So awesome!
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post #281 of 316
12/17/12 at 12:55am

Eh. Not the trainwreck the past few episodes have been but not nearly good enough for me to come back next season.

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post #282 of 316
12/17/12 at 1:10am

That was a hell of a finale. A bit slow at the start, but once Carrie and Brody came back from the cabin, it was an emotional rollercoaster even before the big bang.

 

And holey moley did Patinkin crush it. His argument with Carrie, his shock at the bombing (including confusion over his field promotion), and the simple acceptance of his wife's likely reluctant offer to come home. All just fantastic. Then the last scene, where he seemed to hear her first yell but didn't believe it was real, then that look... anger? happiness? confusion? All of the above? I couldn't help riding along with him at every emotional turn.

 

It's funny that this episode had the biggest crazy moment of the entire series, but it felt much more natural than some of the smaller action beats of the season. Probably because they gave the characters more time to process and react to the anvil that just dropped on their heads.

 

At any rate, I'd count this among the highs of the entire season, and those highs are among the best things on TV.

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post #283 of 316
12/17/12 at 4:55am

I've come to grips that this show will never quite be able to stick any landings it attempts, and will keep moving story goalposts to suit the writers' whims.  On that level, I guess I'll look past the awful logical leaps and adjust my expectations accordingly.

 

Quinn must feel kind of dumb now, right?  Everyone in the country now assumes Brody did it and Quinn could have stopped all that.  

 

I hope S3 just becomes the Saul show.

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post #284 of 316
12/17/12 at 6:46am

Patinkin is THE reason to watch the show these days. His expression when he sees Carrie was equal parts Thank God and WTF. Danes is still great at embodying Carrie, but everything I loved about that character during the first season is pretty much gone. How does she not shoot or at least arrest Brody after his car explodes? More interesting - he's actually behind the bombing. Even more interesting - she helps him anyway. I thought the writers copped out when they didn't have Brody go through with his plan last season. But it was fine, and I liked where the show spun from it. But not killing him this season spun the show into crazy pretzel logic. Carrie has an insurance policy in a storage unit (much love, Storage Wars)? She returns to the CIA after disappearing for a day? Is she going to be in lock up all next season?

 

Anyway, hope they rename the show Sauland. 

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post #285 of 316
12/17/12 at 7:24am

I thought this was the best ep of the back half of the season, but it was an exasperating journey to get there. Everything Saul did this episode was great, but no matter how hard Danes and Lewis emote, I just don't buy their love story. 

 

I was kinda hoping that they would show Quinn after the bombing, watching the events on TV and yelling "D'oh!"

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post #286 of 316
12/17/12 at 9:12am

Makes me wonder how equipped for wetwork Quinn is if he's constantly analyzing the "why" he's murdering people for the government.  Quinn-spin-off!

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post #287 of 316
12/17/12 at 9:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post

I was kinda hoping that they would show Quinn after the bombing, watching the events on TV and yelling "D'oh!"


My dark tangential thought was that the family of the lady Dana & Finn killed won't be getting any money now.

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post #288 of 316
12/17/12 at 9:43am

Patinkin is probably enough to get me to check out the next premiere, but if Carrie isn't in lock up and Quinn isn't goddamn furious with both of them, I'm probably done.  

 

Not having the balls to kill Brody is so disappointing.  I guess everyone but Carrie thinks he's dead?  Because I don't buy him lasting as a fugitive for an hour, no matter how uncivilized the show's conception of Canada is.  They have TVs, and he's the most infamous person in the world.

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post #289 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

Patinkin is probably enough to get me to check out the next premiere, but if Carrie isn't in lock up and Quinn isn't goddamn furious with both of them, I'm probably done.  

 

Agreed. While only Saul & Quinn may be in on Brody's history as a double agent, everyone at the CIA must have seen Brody and Carrie together. So Carrie mysteriously goes off the grid for 12-24 hrs, and then shows up again? You betcha she should be under arrest.

 

Right now I have Showtime as part of my cable bundle, but I'm not encouraged to renew Showtime. 

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post #290 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:30am

This is the same show that had a CIA agent's debriefing about their capture and escape from the world's most wanted terrorist amount to "How did you escape?" "I dunno, I got lucky?" Brody will probably grow some awesome beard and go live in the mountains like Grizzly Adams.

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post #291 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post

Brody will probably grow some awesome beard and go live in the mountains like Grizzly Adams.

 

On most shows, a good plan. But on this show, how can you possibly expect to compete with this?

 

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post #292 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:37am

From the mead hall of Beard Valhalla, Grizzly Adams laughs at Saul's facial hair.

 

 

700

 

Apologies to any lady Chewer that ends up impregnated from the manliness of the picture but I had to set things straight.

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post #293 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:53am

Actually, let's not forget that Lewis began this show looking like this:

 

 

Although that was undoubtedly glued on for a few quick scenes. If he's going rogue for all of season three, I demand natural facial hair. You know Saul and Grizzly Adams ain't fakin' it.

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post #294 of 316
12/17/12 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

If he's going rogue for all of season three, I demand natural facial hair. You know Saul and Grizzly Adams ain't fakin' it.

 

Actually, Sauls beard in Season 2 was not real, from what I have read.

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post #295 of 316
12/17/12 at 11:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperspace View Post

 

Actually, Sauls beard in Season 2 was not real, from what I have read.

 

YOU ARE DESTROYING MY UNIVERSE, HYPERSPACE.

 

Update: A-ha! You also lie!

 

Quote:
Today, he’s in more casual attire, looking trim in a T-shirt. He says he walks everywhere, and admits that vanity makes him shave off Saul’s beard as soon as filming is finished for the season. “I look younger without it… at least, I like to think I do,” he says with a laugh.
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post #296 of 316
12/17/12 at 2:12pm

Well, I thought that was excellent. It more than made up for the previous 2 episodes, which were directed and written by the 24 crew.

 

I was sure the last shot of the episode was going to be Danny sitting at home, watching the news, cackling maniacally. "And I, the Muslim hiding in plain sight, was the mole all along! Muahaughaughaaaaaa."

 

Or...was it the guy who gave Brody that Key Lime Pie smell in his car? He was a Muslim too!

 

So, does it mean I'm naive like Carrie if I didn't think it was completely definitive that Brody knew about the carbomb? I'm at a loss here.

 

My biggest logic frustration is the CIA's inability to stay up on people's cell phones. Like, for example...Brody using his phone to kill the fucking Vice President while he should've still been under surveillance and %100 lockdown. Then, Carrie suddenly decides Brody needs to get rid of his phone...a loooooooong time after the shit already went down. And not because it could be tracked while the battery is still in it, but because he might get tempted to call his family. Ok.

 

Anyways, going into the episode it seemed like they had nowhere to go. But then, they turned it around! It might not always make more than 35% sense, but the show knows how to be surprising and entertaining. I'm totally on board for as long as it's on the air, just to see how they manage to keep it going.

 

Anyone know if Lewis is even going to be in the next season?
 

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post #297 of 316
12/17/12 at 2:27pm

Is there any doubt?

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post #298 of 316
12/17/12 at 2:51pm

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post #299 of 316
12/17/12 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

Patinkin is probably enough to get me to check out the next premiere, but if Carrie isn't in lock up and Quinn isn't goddamn furious with both of them, I'm probably done.  

 

Not having the balls to kill Brody is so disappointing. 

 

You should just quit now, then. Carrie's not going to be in lock-up.

 

I'm not sure why killing off characters is synonymous with "balls". They turned Brody from a terrorist that everyone thought was a hero into a hero that everyone thinks is a terrorist. That's interesting to me. His family is left devastated and demeaned in a way his death as a hero would never have accomplished.

 

Killing him off would have provided a tidy cap to the arcs of about 7 characters. Having him on the run as a terrorist leaves all of those characters either with sad endings or with their situations completely blown to hell.

 

This story decision may well blow up in their faces, but it took way more "balls" to go this route.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Reese View Post

Anyone know if Lewis is even going to be in the next season?
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Matchstick View Post

Is there any doubt?


My only doubt stems from there not seeming to be enough for him to do to justify it. Until Carrie clears his name, he's basically gotta go Grizzly Adams (sans beard-of-perfection). Realistically, with that video he made, I'm not sure it's even possible to clear his name.

 

It would be interesting if they back-burnered Brody until they were ready to close out the series. But I'm not sure they have the balls to pull that. smile.gif

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post #300 of 316
12/17/12 at 3:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post


My only doubt stems from there not seeming to be enough for him to do to justify it. Until Carrie clears his name, he's basically gotta go Grizzly Adams (sans beard-of-perfection). Realistically, with that video he made, I'm not sure it's even possible to clear his name.

 

It would be interesting if they back-burnered Brody until they were ready to close out the series. But I'm not sure they have the balls to pull that. smile.gif

That could be interesting, but I think it would be tough just because of the vagaries of television production. The producers say they aren't sure if Brody will return, but I don't really believe that for a second. Here's the post-finale interview with Gansa and Gordon:

 

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/homeland-producers-alex-gansa-and-howard-gordon-on-brodys-future-sauls-loyalties-and-more-from-season-2

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