CHUD.com Community › Forums › VIDEO GAMES & RPG › Video Games › Chris Roberts' STAR CITIZEN
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Chris Roberts' STAR CITIZEN - Page 4

post #151 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

 

From what I understand of the legal tax disclosures, Roberts and his wife are drawing a $1.5 million yearly salary each from just one of the 5 studios they've opened with the $156 mil they've received so far. They could be receiving even more from the other studios. All legally, apparently.

 

See, that's the thing.  Isn't all that money supposed to go to developing SC?  How are they opening other studios with that money and no one seems to care?

post #152 of 236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

See, that's the thing.  Isn't all that money supposed to go to developing SC?  How are they opening other studios with that money and no one seems to care?

 

Beats me. 

 

Oh, remember that Face Over Internet Protocol I mentioned they're working on? Guess what they're going to start selling to go with that? 

 

 

Of course, seems like playing the game in VR (a feature they've also promised) would interfere with facial recognition, but maybe that's just me.

 

The supporters of this project are different than almost any other subset of gamers I've ever seen. They're downright cult-ish in their adamant refusal to hear anything disparaging SC, and the praise they keep heaping upon an alpha version of a game that so far only exists in people's minds is sorta creepy. I guess it's a good thing they aren't like the entitled "gimme gimme gimme everything right NOW!!" gamers we all know and love, but still. 

 

I just find it all fascinating and weird.

post #153 of 236

Maybe this is just a well funded experiment on the sunk cost fallacy.

post #154 of 236

To be fair, don't most games take a long time to make?  I'm not an expert on this stuff, but that's what the supporters seem to keep reiterating.  

post #155 of 236
Sure. Games do take a long time to make, and there are plenty of examples of games that have seen extended delays before being released. But most of those games haven't crowdfunded nearly 90 million bucks; most of those games don't sell ridiculously priced premium items when the game still hasn't been released yet; and most of those games aren't just adding features for the fuck of it. I think there are plenty of valid reasons why people would become wary of this game.
post #156 of 236

A five year cycle from early prototypes to final game, starting from zero, while building a studio is hardly something to get upset about. The kitchen sink approach to game modes is by far the most concerning aspect and what's keeping me from buying into it.  

post #157 of 236
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelios View Post
 

A five year cycle from early prototypes to final game, starting from zero, while building a studio is hardly something to get upset about. The kitchen sink approach to game modes is by far the most concerning aspect and what's keeping me from buying into it.  

 

No one would mind if it was just a long-in-development game, especially for something ground-breaking; it's more the constant broken promises, feature creep, and naked begging for more cash that gets me.

 

And it's nowhere even near 'final stage', they're still working on the 3.0 version of an ALPHA build that was first promised for 2016. Backers (like me) will be lucky if this game drops before 2020, if ever.

 

And they didn't even mention Squadron 42, the single-player version of this game which is all many of us initially wanted. I'm guessing a lot of cash went towards this cast list:

 

Cast  

 
Gary Oldman Gary Oldman ...
Mark Hamill Mark Hamill ...
Lt. Cdr. Steve 'Old Man' Colton (voice)
Mark Strong Mark Strong ...
(voice)
Sophie Wu Sophie Wu ...
(voice)
John Rhys-Davies John Rhys-Davies ...
Randall Graves (voice)
Liam Cunningham Liam Cunningham ...
Captain Noah White (voice)
Jack Huston Jack Huston ...
Cal Mason (voice)
Ben Mendelsohn Ben Mendelsohn ...
(voice)
Rhona Mitra Rhona Mitra ...
Executive Officer Kelly (voice)
Gillian Anderson Gillian Anderson ...
Captain MacLaren (voice)
Sandi Gardiner Sandi Gardiner ...
Nayara 'Pusher' Fell (voice)
Andy Serkis Andy Serkis ...
Thul'Oquray (voice)
post #158 of 236

Yeah, it does seem strange that they're treating it like a finished game (by selling features) even though it isn't finished.  Cart before the horse and all that.  I can imagine though that they're trying to find ways to satiate a restless group.  Still sounds incredibly sketchy to me.

post #159 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post


And they didn't even mention Squadron 42, the single-player version of this game which is all many of us initially wanted. I'm guessing a lot of cash went towards this cast list:

Fuck me, that's some cast.
post #160 of 236

Employing that kind of cast before you're out of Alpha seems crazy. It's like putting all of the pizza toppings on your plate today, when you plan to cook the pizza base next week. 

post #161 of 236
I'm not going to lie. I would totally snack on a bowl of pepperoni, mushrooms and black olives right now.



Still wouldn't buy Star Citizen, though.
post #162 of 236

Seems like a lot of money for Freelancer 2.

 

If he would have just remastered the first Privateer with a modern flight-sim engine, I would have shelled out.

post #163 of 236

Chris Roberts is tired of your fucking moaning about the game not coming out, so shut the fuck up and just keep giving him your money, you fucking fucks.

 

Quote:
[Chris pointed out that] triple AAA studios delay games all the time, and his studio is no different — except in that it warns its backers, repeatedly, that release windows are unpredictable and destined to move. And frankly, he’s tired of what he calls “fan trolling.”
 
 “People still say ‘Chris, you lied to me’, even if I did give all those caveats for our predictions. People forget all those qualifiers. I am fed up of giving someone an estimate – I’d rather say, here’s the data I have, here’s the schedule I see. This is what we are hoping for. Software developers at all levels tend to be optimistic – you have to be to build big things. But I hope that with what we’re doing, show what we’re doing every week, we can educate a fair amount of people about the process. There will always be cynics. […] There’s a subset of people who say ‘this thing is never going to come out, it’s a scam’. Which is plainly not true. It would be the worst scam in the world. We’re hiring all these people, we’re working really hard. We’re showing what we’re doing every week.”
post #164 of 236

It doesn't have to never come out for it to be a scam.  A scam involves making money off suckers.  Was the above quote in the original kickstarter literature?  If not, he fucking lied to people.

post #165 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Chris Roberts is tired of your fucking moaning about the game not coming out, so shut the fuck up and just keep giving him your money, you fucking fucks.

 

 

The problem is scope creep.  Deliver what you promised for the game and then release enhancements.  Don't keep piling on scope just because YOU CAN...at some point, you have to deliver a product.

 

Also, it needs to be posted again:

 

At some point, stop building the recliner and releast the tire swing.

post #166 of 236

Roberts really is a vile piece of shit.  How arrogant do you have to be to collect $150M from complete strangers, and then bitch at them for wanting some accountability for their hard earned money?  What a fucking asshole.

post #167 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

Roberts really is a vile piece of shit.  How arrogant do you have to be to collect $150M from complete strangers, and then bitch at them for wanting some accountability for their hard earned money?  What a fucking asshole.

 

If this were to happen in the standard software development world, there'd be lawsuits flying everywhere.  That fact should pretty much shut him the hell up.

post #168 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

 

If this were to happen in the standard software development world, there'd be lawsuits flying everywhere.  That fact should pretty much shut him the hell up.

 

I was just about to say, how has this guy not been sued into oblivion at this point?  I bet a bunch of backers could get together and form a class action....

post #169 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

I was just about to say, how has this guy not been sued into oblivion at this point?  I bet a bunch of backers could get together and form a class action....

 

There's lots of reasons, but primarily it's because the written documents governing the way in which people contribute/donate money were written in a manner that makes it very difficult to establish liability.  

post #170 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

I was just about to say, how has this guy not been sued into oblivion at this point?  I bet a bunch of backers could get together and form a class action....

 

I'd be very surprised if there weren't a massive suit being put together already.

 

A Statement of Work (SOW) is essentially a contract between the client and the developer regarding the software project.  It covers what will be delivered and when it will be delivered, and it outlines how billing will take place.   If deliverables aren't met, then there's a process outlined in the SOW to explain how to proceed...there can be penalties/give backs, there can be immediate cancellation of the software project, etc. 

My big question: was the wording of the Kickstarter campaign essentially a SOW?  If so, then how can it be enforced legally to get Roberts to deliver a project or hand out refunds?

post #171 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

 

There's lots of reasons, but primarily it's because the written documents governing the way in which people contribute/donate money were written in a manner that makes it very difficult to establish liability.  

 

Didn't the original kickstarter say the game was going to be release in 2014 or something?

post #172 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

Didn't the original kickstarter say the game was going to be release in 2014 or something?

 

I haven't looked at this Kickstarter, but I looked heavily at another one when considering a lawsuit.  Amongst the problems:

 

--so much hedging language about delivery date/features that pinning down an exact mechanism of breach was difficult.  

--Arbitration/Venue/Jurisdiction clauses were problematic.  

--There was a clause, IIRC, limited class action feasibility (aka making it nearly impossible).  

--There was a "limitation on damages" clause that would be difficult to overcome.

 

Basically, it wasn't worth the time and energy.  I'm sure other attorneys have looked at this and probably reached the same conclusion. 

post #173 of 236
Thread Starter 

There's been some funky stuff happening over the weekend with this whole thing, people tweeting they've quit the production, then the tweets being deleted, rumors that they're looking to sell the whole IP, some tax filing for protections in the UK. 

 

Mostly just rumors that "more info is coming"...

post #174 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

There's been some funky stuff happening over the weekend with this whole thing, people tweeting they've quit the production, then the tweets being deleted, rumors that they're looking to sell the whole IP, some tax filing for protections in the UK. 

 

Mostly just rumors that "more info is coming"...

 

This is kind of old, but:

 

Quote:
 
  • “The popular consensus among most of the people who reached out is that Chris Roberts is not intentionally a con man. ‘He doesn’t set out in the morning to screw anybody over. He’s just incredibly arrogant,’ CS2 stated.”
  • “According to several sources, being an employee of Cloud Imperium Games meant subjecting yourself to public insults, screaming, profanity, racism, and stress so powerful that some people would become physically ill.”
  • “It was also alleged that Roberts’ wife and Cloud Imperium Games Vice President of Marketing Sandi Gardiner enforced discriminatory hiring practices.”
    • Sandi allegedly informed employees not to hire people if too much time had passed since their education, putting them at around 40 years old,  since they would be harder to fire and allegedly used race as a hiring factor, refusing to hire someone because she was black.
    • Roberts and Sandi used company funds for private expenses, such as paying for the house they live in, vacations, travel for Sandi to go to movie auditions, and more along those lines—the sources describe a lavish lifestyle funded by the crowdfunding campaign.
    • Lizzy says one of the most common things discussed by the sources was the lack of progress on Star Citizen. One source said they weren’t making a game but commercials, and another said they were always building towards the next event for a flashy demo, rather than making the game itself.
    • Many of the sources felt guilt, like they were part of some con and wanted to get out because of the feeling

 

https://techraptor.net/content/star-citizen-lawsuits-and-journalism-ethics

post #175 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

There's been some funky stuff happening over the weekend with this whole thing, people tweeting they've quit the production, then the tweets being deleted, rumors that they're looking to sell the whole IP, some tax filing for protections in the UK. 

 

Mostly just rumors that "more info is coming"...

 

post #176 of 236

I'm honestly hoping the whole thing crashes and burns and Roberts is hung out to dry.  

post #177 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

I'm honestly hoping the whole thing crashes and burns and Roberts is hung out to dry.  

 

I hope that it is an unexpected triumph that breaks new ground in gaming, that Roberts is forgiven for underestimating the production timeline, and that the people who paid good money receive a fair "bonus" for their faith and patience.  I also hope that Shantel Vansanten, Charlotte McKinney, and Kate Beckinsale realize that they are able to share their love for me amongst themselves.  

post #178 of 236

The problem is that if this goes down, it'll affect other Kickstarter ventures too. Peoples' faith in community-funded games has been quite shaken recently and a high profile failure like this will cause other people to hesitate from opening their wallets. This week will see the release of Divinity: Original Sin 2 which was also crowd-funded and may turn out to be one of the best games of the year. It would be a crying shame if Star Citizen collapsed, taking other potential Divinitys with it.

post #179 of 236

If this goes down (more like WHEN this goes down), it'll spur a complete overhaul of 'terms and conditions' and overall liability rules associated with crowdfunding/kickstarter campaigns.  Personally, I think that will be a GOOD thing, as people need to deliver what it is that they say that they're going to deliver.  

 

This isn't DUKE NUKEM FOREVER or DAIKATANA where the company itself is on the hook financially to produce a product.  In those instances, they generate the financing themselves, and they are answerable to the banks or investors who put up the money.  Those investment agreements will have huge contracts associated with them to cover all parties in terms of deliverables and due dates.  Playing fast and loose with crowdfunds without an ironclad agreement is absurd, especially when we're talking about huge sums of money like we're talking about with STAR CITIZEN.  The fact that Chris Roberts thought that he could change the terms of agreement late in the game to limit refunds is patently absurd.

 

I see a complete and total reckoning coming over this.

post #180 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

The problem is that if this goes down, it'll affect other Kickstarter ventures too. Peoples' faith in community-funded games has been quite shaken recently and a high profile failure like this will cause other people to hesitate from opening their wallets. This week will see the release of Divinity: Original Sin 2 which was also crowd-funded and may turn out to be one of the best games of the year. It would be a crying shame if Star Citizen collapsed, taking other potential Divinitys with it.

 

It actually just might force game creators to stop pie-in-the-sky fantasies and deliver on their promises.

post #181 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post
 

 

It actually just might force game creators to stop pie-in-the-sky fantasies and deliver on their promises.

 

Or make kickstarter backers (and pre-order zombies) a little more skeptical of projects run by dudes known to be full of hot air? 

post #182 of 236
Thread Starter 

I'm not a Reddit guy, but naturally there's a ton of stuff on this over there. This one seems to sum up some of the thinking, at least:

 

post #183 of 236

Hard to believe this thread started out with so much hope and enthusiasm.

post #184 of 236
Kinda like the Obama presidency.

post #185 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
 

Hard to believe this thread started out with so much hope and enthusiasm.

 

Life has a way of proving people suck.

post #186 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by mongycore View Post

Kinda like the Obama presidency.

 

 

In light of recent events I'd say that everyone wants that back.

post #187 of 236

Shoulda forced each potential backer to watch the Wing Commander movie first.

post #188 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post
 

Shoulda forced each potential backer to watch the Wing Commander movie first.

 

I never actually saw it.  Is it just forgettably mediocre, or is it memorably awful?  

post #189 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post
 

 

I never actually saw it.  Is it just forgettably mediocre, or is it memorably awful?  

 

It's incompetently made in every way, shape, and form.  Just watch the opening scenes and see the cardboard sets and wooden acting and realize that it will never get any better.  

post #190 of 236

MOVIE STUFF I ONLY JUST REALIZED: Chris Roberts directed the Wing Commander movie.

 

I'm sure everyone else has known this for years but this blows my mind. It's like Hideo Kojima suddenly announcing that he's directing the movie adaptation of Metal Gear Solid. Da fuq. 

post #191 of 236

I have only vague recollections of the Wing Commander movie, mostly that it was to be avoided at all costs.  But that does kind of surprise me.  Though not really, since it proved a long time ago he was unfit to manage any kind of production.

post #192 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlord View Post

I never actually saw it.  Is it just forgettably mediocre, or is it memorably awful?  

It's a movie where the crew of an Earth ship is ordered to (literally) go quiet because an enemy destroyer is tracking them.

In FUCKING SPACE.
post #193 of 236
Thread Starter 

Yeah, they tried to make it a "submarines in space" kind of thing. It got something of a bump at the box office, IIRC, because the full The Phantom Menace trailer was shown before it.

 

Roberts' studios have been involved in executive production on a number of films, and not without controversy and some dirty dealings there as well. I'm too lazy to Google it all at the moment.

post #194 of 236

Something's wrong when a show like SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND has more convincing production design and special effect than your theatrical movie.

post #195 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Judas Booth View Post
 

Something's wrong when a show like BABYLON 5 has more convincing production design and special effect than your theatrical movie.

 

Fixed for accuracy. Nothing against S: A&B but you know, B5 was awesome.

post #196 of 236

i was just checking to see who was in the voice cast for this (as I could have sworn Mark Hamill was involved and was going to comment on the Wing Commander movie link) and laughed when I saw Craig Fairbrass' name. He'll always be the "You like soccer?" guy from Cliffhanger to me.

 

post #197 of 236

STRIKER!

post #198 of 236

If this ever gets released, I hope you get to kill his character so I can shout "Season's over, asshole!" at my screen.

post #199 of 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by Headless Fett View Post
 

 

Fixed for accuracy. Nothing against S: A&B but you know, B5 was awesome.

 

B5 was indeed awesome.  My point is that S:A&B was not awesome (it was ok) and it looked like 10x the production that WC was.

post #200 of 236

Among the incredibly baffling things about Wing Commander The Motion Picture: 

 

  • The whole 'sonar ping in space thing'
  • Freddy Prinz Jr. was a magic space pilgrim.
  • A ship called the Snake Eater, that everyone pronounced Snackier.
  • The Kilrathi looked like naked mole rats.
  • Wing Commander III wasa better movie, despite being a video game.

 

I should watch it again.  Can't possibly be as bad as I remember.

 

Edited for clarity.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Video Games
CHUD.com Community › Forums › VIDEO GAMES & RPG › Video Games › Chris Roberts' STAR CITIZEN