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SKYFALL Post-Release - Page 3

post #101 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stale Elvis View Post

I simply see Bond films as a narrative where they can draw from a series of stock imagery/icons/set pieces/characters from the series. Whoever plays M, Q, Moneypenny etc are irrelevant to me provideing they're the stock characters. The DB5 is just part of this pool they can pluck things from to tell a James Bond story.

 

Which particular boat arrival scene were you referring to? The casino one or the other one? Because the casino one really stood out a WTF? poser moment.

 

I'd normally agree with you, but Casino Royale (and to a lesser extent, Quantum) was a game changer in that respect. That doesn't mean you can't muck around with or revert back to the old approach, but making such a strident reference to an old film in a way that diametrically opposes the creative decisions made recently and otherwise followed through on seemed crass and jarring. It's subjective, I grant you, but so is enjoying a movie.

 

Both boat approach scenes. The b-movie kung fu flick approach to Macao, and the yacht coming up to Silva's island. The latter stood out slightly less, but Craig was striking a pose that seemed (to me at least) a bit too much like a perfume advert.

 

Again, these are details (details...Don't bother me with the details) but they aggregated to such an extent I was actually annoyed when I left the cinema. I almost felt like it was a Bond movie made by people who actually don't like Bond very much.

 

Christ, I'm beginning to sound like Harry Knowles.

post #102 of 1198

Striking a pose? How? By having his hands in his pockets?

post #103 of 1198

Dunno about the yacht to the island, that didn't bother me at all, other than the henchmen suddenly appearing with the guns - he'd been there all night and everyone seemed surprised to suddenly see each other - Hey it's henchmen, where did they come from? and Hey, It's Bond, where did he come from?

 

The boat to the casino stance seemed incredibly forced - just standing still as you glide towards the camera.

 

I'm going to call it now, once the hype has died down and in a few years Skyfall will be hailed as an average Bond, a bit more style over substance. Not to say it isn't a good film, just a slightly more than average Bond.

post #104 of 1198

Legs spread wide akimbo, shoulders set, hands in pockets. All looked a bit pose-y.

 

Fuck it. It bothered me. Can't sensibly jusitfy it, so won't try to.

post #105 of 1198

Yeah, continuity in this franchise is a headache, but I like to think Skyfall promotes the idea that 'Bond' and 'M' are just codenames used by agents over the years.  I like the idea of the classic Aston Martin, and other cars of the franchise, just sitting in hideaways waiting to be used again.

post #106 of 1198

I felt that this movie promoted the exact opposite. That this movie was the end of their "Bond Begins" trilogy and ends up where Dr. No begins (Mendes has said as much). And that the Aston Martin in this movie (and CR by proxy) is meant to show us how he got the car in Goldfinger. Which feels really weird to me. On one hand, they're playing fast and loose with continuity, on the other hand they're trying to tie the Craig incarnation of Bond into the Connery one. It's such a weird and unnecessary decision, I think.

post #107 of 1198

So the Aston Martin in this movie is the one he will get when Craig's Bond has his version of the Goldfinger story?

 

Even though the Aston in Skyfall gets shot/blown up?

 

And the car in Casino Royale is left-hand drive and in Skyfall it's right-hand drive?

 

And it's just not the same car?

 

And it's just not the same car?

 

And it's just not the same car?

post #108 of 1198

I completely forgot it got blown up. I'm an idiot.

 

It's still weird to think it's not meant to be the same car that he wins in CR and have just pimped up and had the steering moved for use in England. The Craig movies definitely seem to have a continutity between them.

post #109 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I'd say that's the car he won in CR. Six years have passed since that mission for Bond, I'm sure he had plenty of time to do custom jobs and such with it.

As for SF being part of the "Bond Begins" storyline, that doesn't seem true. SF is more about Bond getting his groove back. He's supposed to be a veteran by this point. I took Mendes' comments about it taking place spiritually before DR. NO as in he's slowly bringing back more of the old school elements for the 21st century.
post #110 of 1198

But he gets his 00-status in Casino Royale. So he's a veteran of British Intelligence but still a slightly novice 00? What does the 00-status even mean? Is it like a promotion from standard agent to something like a Black Ops agent?

post #111 of 1198

Copycats have started...or something.

 

Daft bit of journalism, but quite a cool photo and a mad bit of thievery.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9658476/James-Bond-style-raid-as-axe-wielding-bikers-storm-shopping-centre.html

 

700

post #112 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrknudsen View Post

But he gets his 00-status in Casino Royale. So he's a veteran of British Intelligence but still a slightly novice 00? What does the 00-status even mean? Is it like a promotion from standard agent to something like a Black Ops agent?

 

He's an ex-Royal Navy officer, probably Special Boat Service then normal intelligence work, who is newly promoted to 00-status in CR. His first and second missions are against Le Chiffre and Greene. He then has six (?) years or so of missions, before we meet up with him in Istanbul. Hence, his relative veteran status in Skyfall and his "resurrection" at the end as a viable agent (reporting to a man working seemingly for a secret service that has embraced the 70s both in office decor and secretary appointments. Retro!).

 

00-status I think means you are can be ordered to kill, possibly as a standing order although Bond doesn't seem to operate generally without instructions at least as to overall objectives from M. No word on whether M in turn has to obtain specific Class Seven authorisation from the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs first.

post #113 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Yup. In CR Bond notes that 00 agents have a very short life expectancy, so I'd guess having been one for six years since CR makes Bond one of the few longer lasting 00 agents in the service.
post #114 of 1198

Thanks for the answers. smile.gif

post #115 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post

00-status I think means you are can be ordered to kill, possibly as a standing order although Bond doesn't seem to operate generally without instructions at least as to overall objectives from M. No word on whether M in turn has to obtain specific Class Seven authorisation from the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs first.

 

Having 00 status I think means you're authorized to kill without getting much shit from your superiors. License To Kill and such.

post #116 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cognizant View Post

Yeah, continuity in this franchise is a headache, but I like to think Skyfall promotes the idea that 'Bond' and 'M' are just codenames used by agents over the years.

 

Skyfall has his parents' headstone in it. Last name Bond.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrknudsen View Post

They're trying to tie the Craig incarnation of Bond into the Connery one.

 

I think viewers might be, not the filmmakers.

post #117 of 1198

Spider-Man gets more damaged by bullets than Bond. Continuity does not seem like a big priority considering.

post #118 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Yeah, I'd say that's the car he won in CR. Six years have passed since that mission for Bond, I'm sure he had plenty of time to do custom jobs and such with it.
As for SF being part of the "Bond Begins" storyline, that doesn't seem true. SF is more about Bond getting his groove back. He's supposed to be a veteran by this point. I took Mendes' comments about it taking place spiritually before DR. NO as in he's slowly bringing back more of the old school elements for the 21st century.

 

This.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil View Post

 

Skyfall has his parents' headstone in it. Last name Bond.

 

 

I think viewers might be, not the filmmakers.

 

Righto.  The Craig films have no connection to the original 20 films series.  They are the first three installments in a new Bond series, not a prequel to the old one.

post #119 of 1198

Ah, good point about the headstones.  Truly a weird and wonderful franchise.

 

Usually I'm open-minded when it comes to criticism of something I enjoy, but this time round I'm not really understanding the flak the film has been getting in this thread.  Compared to most Bond films this one is filled to the brim with quality.  It's an attempt to raise the franchise a tad above its cheesy roots and should be commended for not appearing too much like it was written by a committee ticking off checkboxes.  I especially love the fact that the climax does not involve a villain's lair exploding as the hero flees.  I can only see one man save the world so many times before I lose my mind from boredom, I'd much rather see him try to save an individual he cares about.

 

Deakins deserves an Oscar nomination at the very least (if anyone cares about that kind of thing), and Thomas Newman's soundtrack is great.

post #120 of 1198

Some random points:

 

-First half is AMAZING. Second half, might as well be watching Sam Mendes walk to the ATM.

 

-Dude, Bond flat-out DIES in the beginning. I know, Bond is unstoppable, whatever whatever. I as a non-Bond expert, I couldn't help but think this fortysomething dude just got shot twice and fell probably fifty feet into the water. And then a damned waterfall - THAT looked like he was deader than hell.

 

Made me think, and a smarter man can piece this together better than me... what if Bond is dead, and the movie is his trying to literally bring himself back to life? Visually, I think there are more than a few hellish landscapes in his scenes with Silva. And the whole thing ends in a Church, where maternal figure M kicks the bucket. But then what to make of the period where he recovers from that opening fall by (obviously!) shacking up with a beautiful woman and just lounging for a couple of weeks?

 

-Bond is bisexual. Let's just get that out in the open.

 

-More than a few people I chatted with after the screening pointed out the Batman parallels. Some because Batman is always fresh in the mind of a nerd, and some because... come on. Dude's even got his own Alfred!

 

-Craig is considerably less handsome now than he was during Casino Royale.

 

-Gorgeous title sequence. Glad to see this on a massive screen.

 

Q was qute! Oh, Ben Whishaw, you're adorable, I hope they give you more to do next time.
 

-Maybe it's fifty years of Bond, but I didn't feel ANY suspense during any point of this movie.

 

-Disappointing that Silva starts out being so fun, and then you find out that his plan is asinine all along, and he starts having those contemporary movie villain mannerisms where he's both grandiose/ridiculous and also sort of exhausted, bored and overall exasperated.

 

-Too many action movie tropes for my liking. The hacker that can hack the world with hacking all the time forever. The fluctuating ability level of some characters. Endless wordless henchmen. That sort of thing.

 

Otherwise, good fun, but a sharp comedown from the first half to the second.


Edited by Gabe T - 11/6/12 at 2:29pm
post #121 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

Some random points:

 

-First half is AMAZING. Second half, might as well be watching Sam Mendes walk to the ATM.

 

Really? If you think that's an example of a director doing nothing but cashing a check, I suggest you go and watch something made by Brett Ratner. You may be surprised by what you see.

post #122 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

-Bond is bisexual. Let's just get that out in the open.

 

Fucking hell, no, no he isn't.

 

He was simply getting the last word with Silva rather than let him see he was uncomfortable.

post #123 of 1198

Nah, come on. That wasn't his first rodeo. ;)

post #124 of 1198

To paraphrase Mr. Bat Out of Hell...

 

"Bond would do anything for England.  Bond would do anything for England.  Yes, even that."

post #125 of 1198

 

"No more foreplay"

 

700

 

 

 

"For England, James?"

 

700

 

 

"For England, Al-oooaaargggh..."

 

 

 

 

700

 

 

"...?"

 

700

post #126 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabe T View Post

 

-Maybe it's fifty years of Bond, but I didn't feel ANY suspense during any point of this movie.

 

-Disappointing that Silva starts out being so fun, and then you find out that his plan is asinine all along, and he starts having those contemporary movie villain mannerisms where he's both grandiose/ridiculous and also sort of exhausted, bored and overall exasperated.

 

To the first point-- I felt the opposite, actually. Since the film is often about Bond's mortality and the ravages age and service have on an operative's ability to perform in the field, literally anything he did had the capacity to set me on edge, whether he's ducking and covering to protect himself from a runaway train or hanging on to the bottom of an elevator by one hand. (That part in particular had my nerves up. Partly because heights terrify me and partly because of how Mendes and Craig play the scene.) I don't really feel much fear for him in the komodo dragon pit, but that's because it's one of the most Bond-familiar set pieces in the film, and of course Q-tech saves the day.

 

But outside of those moments, I felt a lot of suspense for Bond in moments of physical duress-- and I honestly thought the film did an excellent job at making M's survival a question mark.

 

As for Silva, I liked his plan, which is basically all about revenging himself on M and not about stereotypically nefarious, villainous ends. Frankly, it's less asinine than many plans put in effect by Bond's various nemeses throughout the series; he just wants to discredit M before killing her himself, and I don't have much of an impression that he cared a whole lot about what might happen in the event that he succeeds. I liked that. I liked that his entire campaign is motivated by self-interest, much like many of Bond's other opponents, but his version of self-interest is far more personal and, honestly, far more emotionally informed.

 

I mean, the guy's nuts, but he's nuts in a way that's interesting to me.

 

I do get why people are kind of down on the last act of the film-- it's a sudden, shrieking halt of storytelling, a total loss in momentum after the rest of the movie builds and builds and builds-- but as much as the last third of the movie tones things down somewhat, I still dug it. Then again I'm one of the proponents of the entire philosophy of opening Bond up and showing the audience who he is beneath his super spy veneer (and frankly I think that exploration is going to make Craig's portrayal of Bond as definitive as Connery's). So the further we get into Skyfall, and the further Bond becomes more of a man and less of a womanizing martini afficionado packing a Walther, the more intrigued I became. I do wish that some of that inertia from the rest of the film remained, but it didn't come to a grinding halt for me.

post #127 of 1198
Thread Starter 
post #128 of 1198

Whoa, hey, Armond White likes it? I dunno, maybe I'm not so hot on it anymore.

 

Kidding, of course, but I don't know what to make of the fact that he and I see eye-to-eye on this one. In a weird way that's gratifying.

post #129 of 1198
(EDIT -- Whoops!)
post #130 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cognizant View Post

Yeah, continuity in this franchise is a headache, but I like to think Skyfall promotes the idea that 'Bond' and 'M' are just codenames used by agents over the years. 

I've always hated this theory. Why do all of the Bonds say the same things and enjoy the same drinks? Why does Roger Moore visit the grave of George Lazenby's wife?
post #131 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


I've always hated this theory. Why do all of the Bonds say the same things and enjoy the same drinks? Why does Roger Moore visit the grave of George Lazenby's wife?

 

I prefer to just think that Bond's a Time Lord who regenerates into a new guy every time he is killed by some diabolical villain.

post #132 of 1198

Well, the movie does sort of support that theory. At the end, when Bond returns to headquarters and meets Mallory in his office, what does he refer to him as? "M". "M" is just a title of station. But I also think that theory extends mostly just to M and Bond is really his own man.

 

Then again I'm also not a crazy-diehard Bond fan, so take what I say on the matter with a grain of salt.

post #133 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


I've always hated this theory. Why do all of the Bonds say the same things and enjoy the same drinks? Why does Roger Moore visit the grave of George Lazenby's wife?

 

DESTINY!

 

I have to reiterate how good the soundtrack is, I've had it on a loop all week.  It's got great character.  I've never really got into Bond soundtracks much, after a while the bombastic orchestra starts to sound the same, but this one is a keeper, every track has memorable melody.  I love 'Shanghai Drive'.

post #134 of 1198

You know, I was just watching American Horror Story and Joseph Fiennes appeared (on the screen - not in my home), and I thought to myself how much less talented he is than his brother (you know I'm right). Anyway, it also got me thinking about Skyfall and about where Ralph's character ends up and I'm really, really happy about that choice. I'm very much looking forward to him handing out assignments to Bond in future instalments.

post #135 of 1198

cognizant, Adele's Song Skyfall is not included in the CD!  I guess they want everyone to buy the single as well. 

post #136 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Actually it's not on the soundtrack also because there was no more room for a one disc release. They would have had to expand it two two discs to get the whole score including Adele's song, but few labels ever really do that unless they're special editions and those are usually done many years after the film's release. I believe this was the same case for the Casino Royale soundtrack not featuring "You Know My Name" and a number of other cues. It's not surprise though since the two films are two and a half hours long.
post #137 of 1198

Just to be geeky - the version of Adele's Skyfall in the opening credits is a slightly different version to the single version.

post #138 of 1198

I think it was a given that I would like this more than Quantum but I can't really see why so many people are flipping out over this one. I don't know if it's because I'm still riding high off of how much Casino Royale blew me away or because I've never been the biggest Bond fan or that I expected more but it never grabbed me the way I wanted it to. Bardem was quirky goodness but I felt he was shy of being great. I saw Fiennes becoming M a mile away and was underwhelmed by Whishaw's Q, who I expected far more from. I liked Naomie (meow) but she seemed a tad underused. And Daniel, as always, was great but I found it weird that we get yet another story where his reliability is in question. I will say that I felt that it got more interesting as it went on because of it touching upon his origins.

 

In the end I'll say the film is theater-worthy, beautifully shot, and should be experienced on IMAX*, if possible.

 

(And who else was bugged by the effect used to photoshop the actors' heads on the stunt doubles during the motorcycle chase at the beginning? It instantly ripped me out.)

 

*A standout with this format being the silhouetted fist-fight in Shanghai with the muzzle flash illuminating the actors every now and then.


Edited by Shaun H - 11/8/12 at 8:17am
post #139 of 1198

OH GOD THAT SHANGHAI FIST FIGHT.  Gorgeous and brutal.  Just SO well done.

 

I had a ball with this one.  It's a bit shaggy, but it's always moving and just so weird at times.  And just GORGEOUS.

 

Loved Thomas Newman's score.  It still felt like his work, but working in a Bond context gave it a pizazz. 

 

And Bardem's performance had me giggling constantly.  Genius.  GENIUS.

post #140 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

OH GOD THAT SHANGHAI FIST FIGHT.  Gorgeous and brutal.  Just SO well done.

 

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike's Pants View Post

It just seems to get the formula right. It's fun and at the same time as serious as a heart attack. It has a brilliant villain (with a pretty grim physical deformity). It has heart and genuine emotional stakes. It has some stunning action (there is a silhouetted fist fight that is stunning.)
 

 

I told you about the fist fight! I TOLD YOU ALL ABOUT THE FIST FIGHT! I WIN THE INTERNET!

post #141 of 1198
I was even totally digging the fight on top of the train with faux Matthew Fox before Eve takes the shot.

It's just so down and dirty. It feels like a real desperate fight, but it doesn't lose that sense of men who know what they're doing.

Then the fight in Shanghai simply gave them a rematch in one SLICK looking location. Jesus. Genius. GENIUS!!!
post #142 of 1198

Oh...My...God!  That was the...WORST, James Bond Film!  Chicken Little was right!  The...Sky, will...Fall!  SKYFAIL is more like it!  This is a film about someone trying to...Dial...M, for...Murder! Terrible villain, Terrible concept, and WTF Naomie Harris is Eve M.........!?!

post #143 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Oh...My...God!  That was the...WORST, James Bond Film!  Chicken Little was right!  The...Sky, will...Fall!  SKYFAIL is more like it!  This is a film about someone trying to...Dial...M, for...Murder! Terrible villain, Terrible concept, and WTF Naomie Harris is Eve M.........!?!

You didn't let me down Fleed.

post #144 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Oh...My...God!  That was the...WORST, James Bond Film!  Chicken Little was right!  The...Sky, will...Fall!  SKYFAIL is more like it!  This is a film about someone trying to...Dial...M, for...Murder! Terrible villain, Terrible concept, and WTF Naomie Harris is Eve M.........!?!

Oh My God. Duke you almost swore there.

post #145 of 1198

Mike's Pants, I...Swear, but generally only when I am...Mad.

post #146 of 1198
post #147 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Mike's Pants, I...Swear, but generally only when I am...Mad.

Gutted for you buddy. There's nothing worse than being that disappointed with a film.
post #148 of 1198

I'd be interested to know more about why you felt that way, Duke.

post #149 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Nunziata View Post

http://www.chud.com/116203/tag-team-review-skyfall/

 

My sentiments almost exactly.

post #150 of 1198
Brilliant. One of my top three favorite Bond films, for sure (I need time for reflection, and to see it again, before I can determin my new Bond rankings). And for my money, Craig cemented his status as the best Bond we've yet had. "Waste of a good whiskey.."

If I had one loud complaint, it would be about the fourth wall breaking red ejector seat button. Infuriated me to no end.

I will write (much, much) more later, but for now I just want to say this movie was worth the wait, and was a joy to behold.

Fiennes as M is my dream come true as well, so the ending itself was everything I could have hoped for.

Whishaw as Q has room for improvement, that's all I will say on that note. Honestly he looks too young, too green, to have the job he has. It beggared believability.
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