SKYFALL Post-Release - Page 5

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

I found it odd that Eve resigns herself to a deskjob despite the fact that she was a total natural on the field.  She didn't even seem all that bothered about shooting Bond in the beginning.  But otherwise, she was of valuable help through the film.

 

There was no sense that she would ever consider not being an agent.  It really felt like she was pigeonholed into the deskjob simply because of the "MY REAL NAME IS ROBIN!  OHOHOHOH!!" moment the film had to have.

 

She just seems cool with everything.  It didn't bug me all that much... I just found it odd.

That was my only real problem with the film as well.  Especially after the court room sequence where Bond trusts her by tossing the gun over to her.  It just doesn't seem like she'd be one to go to the desk after that sequence.

Unless the producers are playing a long game with this version of Moneypenny.  I just get the impression that she'll get from behind that desk to help Bond in one of the next two pictures.  Just a gut feeling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

 

I disagree. Though I do like THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, it felt like a film with a stalling engine. Bruce Wayne's character arc was this strange double comeback -- he's out of commission, he comes back, he gets put out of commission again, he comes back again -- it lacked the proper momentum. In SKYFALL, Bond's arc is straightforward and satisfying. The constant exchange of trust and mistrust between M and Bond keeps the story feeling like it has forward momentum. and Silva is there to stoke it by seeding the mistrust in Bond. It just works. I always felt like I was moving forward with SKYFALL, where as THE DARK KNIGHT felt like two steps forward, two steps back again. 

See, for me, Wayne's never comes back in the first half of the film.  Yeah, he puts on the suit and does what he does but he's not the Batman of the Dark Knight.  I know for a lot of people it felt like an odd structure to have him rise, fall, then rise again.  But, for me at least, he didn't rise in the first half of the picture.  This is why I can buy the middle section of the film.  Not saying you're not wrong with the way Rises is structured but it just depends on how you feel about Wayne's reappearance in the first half of the picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Swoosh 

 

Unless the producers are playing a long game with this version of Moneypenny.  I just get the impression that she'll get from behind that desk to help Bond in one of the next two pictures.  Just a gut feeling.

I'd never actually considered this but now I will be completely disappointed if it doesn't happen. Naomie Harris is too good to be stuck behind a desk flirting with Craig for the next two movies (or however long she plays the part).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

I'd never actually considered this but now I will be completely disappointed if it doesn't happen. Naomie Harris is too good to be stuck behind a desk flirting with Craig for the next two movies (or however long she plays the part).

See, I thought the same thing when it was revealed she was Moneypenny.  Again, this is Trudy from Mann's Miami Vice.  She was badass in that film.  How the hell is just going to sit behind the desk as Moneypenny?

My other thought, and this may put people off, is that she's there for Idris Elba's run as 007.  Full disclosure, I'm black, so....

I thought her and Craig's chemistry was great in the film but still, it's odd having her stuck behind the desk with Craig doing two more.  They have to be playing a long game with this version of Moneypenny.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Swoosh 

See, for me, Wayne's never comes back in the first half of the film.  Yeah, he puts on the suit and does what he does but he's not the Batman of the Dark Knight.  I know for a lot of people it felt like an odd structure to have him rise, fall, then rise again.  But, for me at least, he didn't rise in the first half of the picture.  This is why I can buy the middle section of the film.  Not saying you're not wrong with the way Rises is structured but it just depends on how you feel about Wayne's reappearance in the first half of the picture.

I get that we're not really supposed to think that Batman is back when he first re-appears, but the film tries to have it both ways. When Batman emerges from the tunnel on the batpod, you feel, "Yeah, Batman's back!" But then the rug gets yanked out 40 minutes later, and then you're supposed to feel the exact same thing when he re-appears saving Gordon on the ice. He's down, he's up, he's down, he's up. It's a repetitive back-and-forth feeling. There's a disconnect between what the film wants you to think and what it wants you to feel. This is a weakness of Nolan's IMO. He doesn't always get the balance right. 

If this turns out to be the case, I'm going to be severly disappointed with Broccoli and Wilson...

They definitely won't bring Naomie Harris back just to have her be a desk jockey in a couple of scenes per film. We will be getting a more hands-on (pun intended) Moneypenny this time around. 

Avian, you made a lot of good points which, once put all together, really shows why the hype on this one is a bit unwarranted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcnooj82 

There was no sense that she would ever consider not being an agent.  It really felt like she was pigeonholed into the deskjob simply because of the "MY REAL NAME IS ROBIN!  OHOHOHOH!!" moment the film had to have.

The lack of outcry over how shoe-horned in this was versus the Robin line is shitty.

Oh my god! The Dark Knight Rises! In the fucking Skyfall thread! We're being invaded!

...

The further I get away from Skyfall, the more I liked it. In fact, I'm surprised it isn't receiving universal love here for the ways it balances out both ends of the contemporary genre blockbuster, playing in the middle of the spectrum instead of at either end of being less serious (The Avengers) or more serious (The Dark Knight). Skyfall manages to walk the line and be both, bucking the trend of blockbusters fitting into one mold or another while also being generally better-made than either of them. (And I loved The Avengers. Rises can go fuck itself.) It's serious, immensely serious, without being aggressively dour and overwhelmingly boring, and at the same time Bond gets to throw around his usual stock of pithy one-liners as he does things like feed fat bad guys to komodo dragons (I'm waiting for someone to say "KOMODO DRAGONS ARE SCARED OF HUMANS THOUGH") and fuck random strange women who pack heat while out on the town. Fuck them in the shower. After sneaking up naked on them.

Which makes the "eh, this isn't Bond enough" stuff into frustrating criticism. Of course this is Bond. This is Bond upon Bond upon Bond. That Mendes and Craig tone things down and deliberately address and reject conventions of the past doesn't reduce the Bondness here; no exploding pens, sure, but Bond still loves his souped-up Aston Martin and he can admire the benefits of sneaky Q-tech in the vein of a palm-coded Walther. His villain lives on a damn island, for crying out loud. But I think the point is getting through to the humanity of Bond so that we can get back to letting him do the things we love watching him do. Frankly, I expect the next Bond films to be much more like the Connery/Moore-era pictures where the bad guy has underwater lairs and iron-jawed henchmen at his disposal, and if they're being made by guys like Mendes and Deakins, all the better.

Oh, and I didn't like the "Moneypenny" line, either, but unlike that stupid fucking Robin line, I saw it coming from ten miles away without having to read any theoretical/conspiratorial essays on the web in advance. If you haven't figured out that Eve is Moneypenny before the climax, well, you're a perfectly smart and awesome person, but the movie isn't really trying to hide it from you either. Bond comes right out and pegs her as someone better-suited for a desk job.

Yeah, this bugged me a bit as well.  I liked Q's introduction but from there I thought he could have been handled better.

I didn't mind the Moneypenny line or the Robin line. I like my geek pandering as long as it doesn't hurt the film. I'm not ashamed to admit it. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru 

Fuck them in the shower. After sneaking up naked on them.

That scene felt rapey. I want to see the alternate cut where she asks him what the fuck he's doing while he stands there with a confused boner, apologizing.

Bond has a long history of being a border line rapist and the women loving it. Just sayin'. 

Re: Avian's points. The most salient criticism here is that Q is a bit of a dope, but then again, the movie sets him as being less experienced and somewhat over-sure of his abilities and experience. (At least that's something I took away from his introductory scene in the museum with Bond.) When he does the naturally dumb thing, I think we're supposed to smirk at him; he's slow enough on the uptake that he doesn't even realize it's his fault right away. Newbie fumbling courtesy of hubris.

As to M, I think the movie is trying to make us question whether she's right for the job while also giving us the opportunity to see things from her point of view. Yes, she had an agent bleeding out, but chasing Patrice is much more important in the greater scheme of things so she has Eve and Bond continue pursuit (note that Bond would have had no real way of catching up to Patrice without Eve's intervention). Had the mission been successful, then yes, Oh God Bleeding Like a Sieve agent would still have died-- but not in vain. The fact that he dies in vain, I think, is meant to make us raise an eyebrow at M; we're on her side but we're also participating, to an extent, in all of the finger-pointing being directed her way.

I think the fact that Even botches the shot and balks affirms two things: one, she's not suited for field work, or at least field work of this sort. That shot was impossible, of course, but all the same. Two, she's a human being, and she just fucking shot down the most legendary spy in her agency. Were I in that position, I could see myself being kind of a little too stunned to take another shot.

You're also being too hard on the courtroom scene. What happens if she leaves? Silva presumes that she's there, and if he shows up and she's gone, I can't imagine that he's not going to kill a few people on his way out anyways. He walks in and guns down a few officers with his thugs. He's not the kind of guy to say, "Whoops, she's not here, false alarm, let's just say toodles and try again next time". As soon as she sets foot in that room she's put everyone in danger, but she doesn't know it until her aide shows her the message in the middle of Helen McRory's scathing indictments of her character. So there's that to consider.

And Silva's plan...again, I loved it. His plan is no more grandiose than "assassinate the person who betrayed me". It's simple. It's basic. It also happens to be kind of a huge deal, because if he succeeds he throws all of British security into massive turmoil (which opens the door to doing the sorts of things he describes in his introductory scene with Bond with total impunity). But this isn't about local or global panic. This is about something much more personal, much in the way that a lot of Bond's actions in Quantum can be argued to be informed by personal emotions more than anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I didn't mind the Moneypenny line or the Robin line. I like my geek pandering as long as it doesn't hurt the film. I'm not ashamed to admit it. 

I guess I didn't necessarily dislike either line, myself. It's more that I "nothing" them. They're just confirmations of suspicions I personally had or theories I'd already read.

Pandering either works for me or just feels like pandering. That's a really stupid sentence and I feel like an asshole for having written it, but it's the darn truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun H 

 

That scene felt rapey. I want to see the alternate cut where she asks him what the fuck he's doing while he stands there with a confused boner, apologizing.

I felt the same way, but like Sebastian points out, that's kinda par for the course with 007. Guy gets his faux-rape on all the time.

I also feel like Silva does things the way he does because he's been given this skill set and has nothing else to do with it. His motives are revenge, but his methods are espionage mixed with theatrics. 

Skyfall's great.

It's also probably a better movie than most everybody's favorite Bond movies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

I also feel like Silva does things the way he does because he's been given this skill set and has nothing else to do with them. His motives are revenge, but his methods are espionage mixed with theatrics. 

Yeah, this, exactly. How else do you exact your vengeance when you are, basically, James Bond, but a hundred percent more flamboyant and dramatic? Given everything Silva is, I'm actually amazed at how "restrained" his plan felt. (Which is to say, it's not really that restrained, but it's more restrained than it could have been.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

Skyfall's great.

 

It's also probably a better movie than most everybody's favorite Bond movies.

You know, I've not seen every Bond movie, I'm not a franchise diehard, and my favorite Bond movie is From Russia With Love because of nostalgia. (It was the first Bond movie I saw on the big-screen, back in high school at a special Bond marathon in Boston with one of my best friends.) So I have no problem whatsoever saying that Skyfall is now my new favorite Bond movie, and yeah, it's better than almost all of the Bond movies I can claim to have seen.

Because those movies didn't have Sam Mendes directing them or Roger Deakins shooting them.

Right on....

Judas Booth, Thank you for the support.

Robo Tim Kelly, Thank you for your support as well.

Sebastian OB, Of course I wanted a different Film.  I wanted to see a...Bond Film, not a...M in peril film.  Also, I posted that Craig isn't any good at puns and quips, not that he doesn't...Try.  I don't mind when people don't enjoy the films or series I like.  We have different tastes.

LaurenOrtega, I don't know what I ever said to cause you to hate me.  We just enjoy different things.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru 

Re: Avian's points. The most salient criticism here is that Q is a bit of a dope, but then again, the movie sets him as being less experienced and somewhat over-sure of his abilities and experience. (At least that's something I took away from his introductory scene in the museum with Bond.) When he does the naturally dumb thing, I think we're supposed to smirk at him; he's slow enough on the uptake that he doesn't even realize it's his fault right away. Newbie fumbling courtesy of hubris.

I'm glad I wasn't the only person to think this was the intention of the Q scenes. You put it much better than I would have done, however.

Quote:

Originally Posted by duke fleed 

Sebastian OB, Of course I wanted a different Film.  I wanted to see a...Bond Film, not a...M in peril film.  Also, I posted that Craig isn't any good at puns and quips, not that he doesn't...Try.  I don't mind when people don't enjoy the films or series I like.  We have different tastes.

 

 

You wanted to see a movie where James Bond Invincible Superpsy saves the world from a cackling madman's giant laserbeam or some shit. You wanted to see a movie that has already been made 1,000,000 times. The rest of us want something new that still has the elements of Bond that we like and that aren't stupid. I'm glad that you didn't get the film you wanted. But you seem like a nice enough guy Duke so I'll be happy to allow you your enjoyment of G.I. JOE : RETALIATION without the benefit of my snarky remarks. I'll hopefully be watching SKYFALL again on Blu Ray by then. 

Sebastian OB, I just hope they don't keep delaying G.I. Joe Retaliation!  Enjoy your new Bond's Skyfall to your hearts content.  I will not be seeing it again.  I was simply not...Shaken or Stirred by this new take on 007!

Why are people engaging in actual discussion with fleed? Their braincells to waste I guess.

During the entire last half hour, I kept thinking, "God, if only James bond had an exploding pen..."

Also, if you guys wanting to see "something new" means a bad guy who CAN'T EVEN SHOOT AN OLD LADY, then have at it. I thought the movie was ok, but I think Duke made some great points on his own.

Do you actually like James Bond movies Gabe, or are you just here to pull your usual "I'm smarter than this movie that everybody likes" routine?

It's so funny that anybody could say this movie isn't very "Bond-like" in the first place.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

Do you actually like James Bond movies Gabe, or are you just here to pull your usual "I'm smarter than this movie that everybody likes" routine?

Not sure what you're projecting. I thought the movie was ok, I just think some of the critiques from others are totally relevant and not being given the respect they deserve.

Also, I like lasers.

And also he's Gabe.

Don't be racist, Lauren.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaurenOrtega 

And also he's Gabe.

And Kabong.  And Fabfunk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

 

Also, I like lasers.

What if Skyfall featured a hobbit wielding a laser? Would your hatred of one cancel out your love for the other?

I think I've just thought up the awesome new henchman for the next Bond movie. SOMEONE GET ME BARBARA BROCCOLI'S EMAIL ADDRESS!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

During the entire last half hour, I kept thinking, "God, if only James bond had an exploding pen..."

 

Also, if you guys wanting to see "something new" means a bad guy who CAN'T EVEN SHOOT AN OLD LADY, then have at it. I thought the movie was ok, but I think Duke made some great points on his own.

Hey now-- that old lady happens to be Judi Fucking Dench. She's pretty hardcore, at least as old ladies go. And he does shoot her! Or, his goons do! By accident!

There are, and I think you realize this and are just being cheeky, a number of things people mean when they refer to seeing "something new" in Bond; we want to see a new direction for the character that treats him like a character instead of a chemically-dependent, well-armed, throbbing erection in a tuxedo. Among other things. Silva might not be able to pull the trigger on M himself in that last scene (which is what I presume you're referring to in the specific), but he's far scarier than some random asshole megalomaniac with designs to wipe out humanity and start a new underwater civilization.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSaxon 

 

I'm glad I wasn't the only person to think this was the intention of the Q scenes. You put it much better than I would have done, however.

Well, hey, thanks! I'm just happy that I'm not alone, either, so we have that in common too!

You guys sure take your middling blockbusters personally.

Peter Dinklage would be a great Bond villain. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by agracru 

There are, and I think you realize this and are just being cheeky, a number of things people mean when they refer to seeing "something new" in Bond; we want to see a new direction for the character that treats him like a character instead of a chemically-dependent, well-armed, throbbing erection in a tuxedo. Among other things. Silva might not be able to pull the trigger on M himself in that last scene (which is what I presume you're referring to in the specific), but he's far scarier than some random asshole megalomaniac with designs to wipe out humanity and start a new underwater civilization.

 

Certainly. What's weird about this is that it seems his master plan, once breaking out, involves going into that crowded courthouse and shooting her. I would assume they moved to Plan B (or D?) by the time they're actually at Skyfall. And then he wants to monologue. I mean, did he want to make that grand self-sacrifice while killing M in the courthouse? Was that the plan? Because it PROBABLY wouldn't have worked like that.

I dunno. If he could HACK THE WORLD, I would assume he could come up with a better idea of how to take M with him to the grave. Of course, I've never hacked the world, so what do I know?

I get the feeling that Silva would have been fine getting gunned down at the courthouse provided that M died first. I think his suicidal gesture at the end is improv. 

And I'll take whatever monologuing Bardem wants to dole out. I could watch that guy talk crazy all day. 

It's so weird to get in that mindset where you're thinking, "Gee, I dunno about that evil plot... certainly not what I would have done.. I mean I GUESS it could work like that... probably. If you're lucky." And then you realize you're weighing the pros and cons of villainous bad guy plots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Certainly. What's weird about this is that it seems his master plan, once breaking out, involves going into that crowded courthouse and shooting her. I would assume they moved to Plan B (or D?) by the time they're actually at Skyfall. And then he wants to monologue. I mean, did he want to make that grand self-sacrifice while killing M in the courthouse? Was that the plan? Because it PROBABLY wouldn't have worked like that.

 

I dunno. If he could HACK THE WORLD, I would assume he could come up with a better idea of how to take M with him to the grave. Of course, I've never hacked the world, so what do I know?

I'm with Sebastian-- I don't think the potentiality of being gunned down in the courthouse bothered Silva one iota. So long as M dies, he doesn't care; he wants his revenge, he wants M to pay, and that's it. Beyond that, he doesn't give a shit, and he doesn't have a long-term plan. He only has his need for revenge. He's a Woo-jin with a much more macro-scale design for payback: once he gets his revenge, what would he really be living for anyways?

Fair point on world-hacking, but I'd counter by saying the method he employs satisfies him on both a dramatic/theatrical level and an intimate level (since, I would argue, the act of killing in retribution is itself an intimate affair). But perhaps neither of us is qualified to speak to this point. I have never hacked the world, either.

Why not mix both worlds? Why not have him isolated with M, and he can give a timed speech before he's gunned down, before the satellite programmed fires a laser from outer space, incinerating M? I would be a terrible Bond villain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Why not mix both worlds? Why not have him isolated with M, and he can give a timed speech before he's gunned down, before the satellite programmed fires a laser from outer space, incinerating M? I would be a terrible Bond villain.

I would have been a terrible basketball player. That's why I just watch basketball instead of participating though.

I feel like you're talking shit about my laser fetish, agracru.

He blows up MI6 remotely knowing full-well M isn't there. There's no way he's letting his space laser do it. 

You never plan to fail, you just fail to plan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

Why not mix both worlds? Why not have him isolated with M, and he can give a timed speech before he's gunned down, before the satellite programmed fires a laser from outer space, incinerating M? I would be a terrible Bond villain.

You'd have to throw in a terrible pun before the laser hits. You know, a Mr. Freeze from Batman & Robin style pun.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe T 

I feel like you're talking shit about my laser fetish, agracru.

No!

...

...yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sebastian OB 

Peter Dinklage would be a great Bond villain. 

OH, IMAGINE THE PUNS AND WITY ONE-LINERS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Harford 

I don't see how anyone thinks the hacking in this movie was unrealistic. Stuxnet, anyone? That's exactly what Bardem pulled on MI6 with the explosion. And he works with the Chinese, a nation infamous for 'impossible' hacks. Cyber warfare isn't a 90s movie cliche, it's the the reality of the world we now live in.

We're waiting for the villain, Anonymous, who performs hellacious DOS attacks.

"MI6.com is down!"

"Get me 007."

Surprised to come to this thread to find so much nitpicking, as we are after all talking about James Bond, the longest of any franchise, and one that's has always evolved to suit the taste of the day, as seen through the Broccoli's. But most of all one that has many more compromised films then any other.

So let me say this is a very solid James Bond movie, and damn near close to greatness, but as some have pointed out has some minor flaws. But considering DAD came out only 10 years ago we should be a lot more thankful that Mendes mainly integrated the series norms very well, and that only a few brief moments smelled of Purvis and Wade.

As far as how I feel, being a lifelong Bond fan it is no From Russia With Love. That being said neither is Casino Royale, I feel that movie is far too overpraised around these parts, and is maybe only better by a smudge then Campbell's first Bond film. CR needs about 15 min of trims, and someone beside P&W writing the action, to be truly great. That being said I feel Quantum is too harshly judged, yes the editing nearly ruins the whole damn thing, but that opening car chase is on par with Skyfalls, and doesn't have the bad digital face swap either. Olga is a nice change up in Formula, and though Forester and Haggis get a bit too heavy handed with Eco theme, and dufous CIA man, its a far more complete package then even The Living Daylights.

So Skyfall.

Craig's bond, has always been very personal, and it was nice to see everyone send Dame Judi off not only with a good amount of screen time, but also for the most part a well written part (last act, stupidity not with standing)

I was ready to hate Q, but I like the age reversal from Desmond, and I like that he's not infallible.

I liked the inclusion of the DB5, heck I was alright even with it having machine guns, the ejector seat was bit too much, but it didn't hurt a whole lot.

I dont understand how anyone can have issues with Bardem as he was aces, the being caught was part of the plan is bit well worn, but when well executed such as it was here, I do not see issue with it.

The credits made me like Adeles song, and I thought they where pretty solid, but needed a bit more polish, and one less visual idea. 

The second they cast Ralph Fiennnes and Naomi Harris I had no doubt who they where playing, so the ending did not surprise me, and I hope but the caliber they cast, both will be a bit more involved.