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SKYFALL Post-Release - Page 13

post #601 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

I think Skyfall is stupid, and I also want it to be more stupid?

As a matter of fact that's kinda exactly how your arguments are coming across, without any help from Lauren or anyone else.
post #602 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 


Yes, because he wanted to kill her at the hearing. Seeing her gutted by Politicians then literally by him would be the coup de grace. And "prove" that his world view was correct.

 

Not to beat a dead horse, but no part of the execution of Silva's plan involved him witnessing the hearing. The only thing he saw of it was people screaming and diving under tables. 

post #603 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

By what standard is it better? Because you say so? 




I actually made this very point upthread. The James Bond franchise has never been a clinic on great filmmaking. Which is why I find it strange that I would be criticized for complaining that Skyfall lacked action because A) Bond films are first and foremost action movies and B) why does someone who clearly dislikes so much of a film franchise show up for the 23rd entry? 

And here's the bad news for the old school Bond haters: Skyfall was clearly setting up the franchise to return to that approach. So I hope you like crazy gadgets, theatrical villains in ridiculous hideouts, and more fights scene involving some kind of man-eating animal, because I'm willing to be that's what we're getting in Bond 24. 

Bond fighting apex predators is something that goes all the way back to the novels. I don't have a problem with the occasional cool hideout or survivalist action scene (I can think of a whole bunch of animals I'd love to see 007 take on) so long as its grounded in the real world.
post #604 of 1198
I was just thinking about how they got in the Bond, James Bond line after leaving it out for Quantum, and it occurred to me that unless I am mistaken, they did something clever with the martini shaken not stirred bit. They cut to a girl shaking a martini for Bond, and he compliments her technique as "perfect". Unless I am wrong, we don't actually hear him order the drink.
post #605 of 1198
I avoided this thread like the plague so forgive me if i bring up something that was already mentioned in the previous 12.

I was a bit hasty in calling Silva a Top 3 villain but he is one of the better ones. Bardems performance was fucking awesome. Love the exasperated look he gives Bond after the knifing. And his plan made sense to me, dramatics and all.

Craig knocked it out of the park. Except that I didn't like him crying over M. He is well on his way to surpassing Connery. But for me, he's just not there yet.

Love all the little nods or knocks on the previous entries. He had Connerys car (loved his playful threat to eject M) and opened in Istanbul. Some of the one liners were Moore worthy as was the old couple commenting on his determination to get on the train. And the little dig from Q about the exploding pen being aimed(at least to me) at Brosnans over gadgeted era. Even the palm gun was a call back to LTK.

Moneypenny was top notch and I would like to see the expanded role continue. Really loved the new M's throwback office and padded door. It's a shame they wasted the "don't cock it up 007" line before he became M. I mean the line worked but it would have been dynamite in a future installment.

Oh, and I do agree with whoever said that we are headed for Blofeld before Craig is done. Sort of how we knew the Joker was coming for Bales Batman, that nuTrek will get to Kahn and that Lex Zluthor will be in the sequel to The Man of Steel.
post #606 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

I was just thinking about how they got in the Bond, James Bond line after leaving it out for Quantum, and it occurred to me that unless I am mistaken, they did something clever with the martini shaken not stirred bit. They cut to a girl shaking a martini for Bond, and he compliments her technique as "perfect". Unless I am wrong, we don't actually hear him order the drink.

No mistake, that's totally what they did. Thought that was a nice wink without being too winking about it, if that makes sense. They said it without really saying it or drawing too much attention to the fact that they weren't saying it and promptly moved on.
post #607 of 1198

I LOVE that Bonds home is being blown to shit, and only the car getting destroyed gets his revenge face going. 

post #608 of 1198
Heh, I also loved his reaction to the car being destroyed.
post #609 of 1198
Saw it. Loved it.

Bring on Nolan for the sequel. Maybe keep Zimmer away.
post #610 of 1198

Best thing? I can totally imagine that being a joke on Archer and the tone doesn't have to be changed at all.

post #611 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

I LOVE that Bonds home is being blown to shit, and only the car getting destroyed gets his revenge face going. 

 

This is actually a problem for me. Earlier in the film, the mere mention of the word "Skyfall" causes him to lose his shit. But then when it's being blown to smithereens, he only gets emotional about the car?! It doesn't match up.

post #612 of 1198

He hates the fucking house. In fact he basically says as much.

 

When he's blowing the actual house up.

post #613 of 1198

Oh Zak come on you're smarter than that.  Why can't Skyfall having such an impact on him be because of bad memories?  He clearly hated the place.

post #614 of 1198

"Hating a house" does not exactly resonate emotionally. Seems like if we're returning to Bond's childhood home, they could have dug deeper.

post #615 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

This is actually a problem for me. Earlier in the film, the mere mention of the word "Skyfall" causes him to lose his shit. But then when it's being blown to smithereens, he only gets emotional about the car?! It doesn't match up.

Wait when did he drop a #2?

Come on! It was a beautiful Ashton Martin.
post #616 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Oh Zak come on you're smarter than that.  Why can't Skyfall having such an impact on him be because of bad memories?  He clearly hated the place.

 

I suppose it can. Not saying it's a plot hole or anything. But if Mendes is going to be so ballsy as to offer up this tantalizing piece of Bond-ian lore on screen, it just seems to me they could have done more with it from a character perspective other than "Bond hates this place. He's glad to see it go boom."

post #617 of 1198
Seriously? They did, albeit implicitly. It's not literally just the building itself, it's that Skyfall is obviously a place that represents a lot of pain and bad memories, maybe some good ones as well, but he's conflicted about it at best, and is not keen on revisiting his past. Going there for the climax felt like symbolically peeling back the layers of who this person is and where he comes from.
post #618 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnotaur3 View Post

I enjoyed seeing the 60's padded door to the new M office. Can Bond please fling a hat on a coat hanger at the start of the next film?

 

It's stupid, but I absolutely want the next Bond movie to have a bit where Bond has to grab a SWAT helmet or something to shield himself during an explosion. The next time we see him, he's walking into M's office and casually dropping the smoking thing on the hanger.

post #619 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

And of course the best way to achieve an intimate murder is to charge into a room full of people with guns blazing. Because there was absolutely no way a man with the resources Silva had could have pulled off a face-to-face murder. It was literally the only choice he had.  

You mean when he charges into the room where M has faced public humiliation, been called out as unnecessary and incompetent to the point of costing lives, and would have presumably been removed from her post in a very public way? You don't understand why Silva might be interested in killing her in that room?
post #620 of 1198

More than he hates the house?  How about he learned his parents were dead and he was an orphan there?  Remember the line about hiding in the secret tunnel and coming out of it a man?  Seriously guys, it's like I'm surrounded by a bunch of Dave Chens today. 

post #621 of 1198
You could easily argue that the place straight up symbolizes Bond. It doesn't really get more significant from a character perspective than that.
post #622 of 1198

Maybe we need to stress REALIZING YOU'RE AN ORPHAN.  I guess if some audience members haven't lost a parent yet they just don't understand the emotional devastation that's implied by Skyfall.  That ranch isn't important because James spent his boyhood years there, it's important because Bond, the blunt violent instrument began his story there.

post #623 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

 Seriously guys, it's like I'm surrounded by a bunch of Dave Chens today. 

 

You know what? That hit the nail on the head.

post #624 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dark Shape View Post


You mean when he charges into the room where M has faced public humiliation, been called out as unnecessary and incompetent to the point of costing lives, and would have presumably been removed from her post in a very public way? You don't understand why Silva might be interested in killing her in that room?

 

I understand why Silva would have wanted to kill M in that room. What I don't understand why he wanted to do it in such a half-ass, destined-to-fail manner.

 

Oh, that's right... it's because he's crazy

post #625 of 1198
And because he wanted to do it himself and see it happen. And as the climax suggests, probably intended it to be a suicide mission. And almost does succeed.
post #626 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

And because he wanted to do it himself and see it happen. And as the climax suggests, probably intended it to be a suicide mission. And almost does succeed.

 

Then he should have walked in with a bomb strapped to him, looked M dead in the eye, and hit the detonator. Achieves all of the above, and guarantees results. But I guess he was too crazy to come up with such an obvious idea.  

post #627 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Just got back from my second viewing. Really, it just WORKS for me. Only two Bond films I absolutely loved were FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE and GOLDFINGER. You can now count three.
post #628 of 1198
But that's not a flaw, or a hole, or anything like that, it's just one of those basic things you accept cause otherwise there's no (more) movie.
post #629 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Sorry TCD, I won't be calling you stupid or anything mean spirited, but I'm finding your arguments about action/action set pieces very incoherent.
post #630 of 1198
I mean seriously, if thats what your criticism of that segment of the film comes down to it's pretty moronic. Why didn't the villain do something that would stop the film dead in its tracks and end it 2/3 of the way in? Come on.
post #631 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

But that's not a flaw, or a hole, or anything like that, it's just one of those basic things you accept cause otherwise there's no (more) movie.

 

The word you're looking for is "contrivance" and good movies usually don't have them. 

 

But it's cool. All of us overlook such things in movies that otherwise work for us. I just find it laughable that I'm accused of wanting more stupid by people who shrug their shoulders at the stupid that already exists. 

post #632 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Sorry TCD, I won't be calling you stupid or anything mean spirited, but I'm finding your arguments about action/action set pieces very incoherent.

 

I was disappointed by what I felt was a lack of them in Skyfall because action spectacle is something I associate and expect with a James Bond movie. Hope that clears it up for you. 

post #633 of 1198

TCD, please stop posting this instant!

 

You're ruining this thread, which is only for people who want to post 100% praise and adulation for the 10/10 masterpiece Skyfall. The best film of the year to feature hacking scenes out of a 1993 William Gibson adaptation. You disgust me. 

post #634 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCD View Post

I was disappointed by what I felt was a lack of them in Skyfall because action spectacle is something I associate and expect with a James Bond movie. Hope that clears it up for you.
I don't agree with that, since elaborate set pieces would have been unfitting for the kind of story this movie is going for. Sometimes a knife to the back can be much more fitting and effective than having a giant drilling machine ram at you.
post #635 of 1198
No, even good movies often have some basic level of contrivance, an acceptable level of suspension of disbelief that just allows there to be a movie. This is in that category.
post #636 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo19 View Post

TCD, please stop posting this instant!

You're ruining this thread, which is only for people who want to post 100% praise and adulation for the 10/10 masterpiece Skyfall. The best film of the year to feature hacking scenes out of a 1993 William Gibson adaptation. You disgust me. 

Jesus christ, shut up.
post #637 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

I don't agree with that, since elaborate set pieces would have been unfitting for the kind of story this movie is going for. Sometimes a knife to the back can be much more fitting and effective than having a giant drilling machine ram at you.

 

Hey man, no worries. I'm cool with you having a different opinion, and I appreciate that you can at least conduct yourself like an adult. I already plan on giving Skyfall another viewing with tempered expectations, and hope the things I like about it will overcome the things I didn't. 

post #638 of 1198

Odo, stop speaking entirely in sarcasm.  It's annoying as fuck and not funny. 

post #639 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

No, even good movies often have some basic level of contrivance, an acceptable level of suspension of disbelief that just allows there to be a movie. This is in that category.

 

Movies can also have more action spectacle than Skyfall did and still be good. Why it's almost as if these things exist on a spectrum, and it's a little more nuanced that one position being stupid and the other not. 

post #640 of 1198
My stance is simply that SKYFALL has the amount of action that it does and is a good movie, and that some of your arguments against it haven't made sense to me, or seemed nitpicky.
post #641 of 1198

I think that those of us who like the movie and those who don't should meet on top of a train in Turkey and thrash it out with our fists. We'll get Lauren to snipe people at random until only one opinion remains.

post #642 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

My stance is simply that SKYFALL has the amount of action that it does and is a good movie, and that some of your arguments against it haven't made sense to me, or seemed nitpicky.

 

I felt the action was lacking and the villain plot was overly contrived. I thought the acting, cinematography and thematic elements were good. But the things I didn't like outweighed the things I did. It's as simple as that. 

post #643 of 1198
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

I think that those of us who like the movie and those who don't should meet on top of a train in Turkey and thrash it out with our fists. We'll get Lauren to snipe people at random until only one opinion remains.

 

Hmm... based on the way it played out in the movie, I don't think that bodes well for those of you who liked it. 

post #644 of 1198
I'd put money on Lauren being a better shot than Moneypenny.
post #645 of 1198

I don't know... if there's one thing I learned from Skyfall, it's that girls can't shoot. 

post #646 of 1198

Oh my god I want that!  I don't even care if I get Bonded, at least I'll land on a wicked awesome title sequence and spend a few months bedding beautiful women and drinking scorpions. 

post #647 of 1198
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

I'd put money on Lauren being a better shot than Moneypenny.

Guaranteed if the haters are wearing t-shirts featuring Roger Moore.
post #648 of 1198

Does Lauren hate Roger Moore?  Wait...  Let me try that again.  Does anybody like Roger Moore?  I always thought the 50 year old hitting on the young babes was pretty creepy. 

post #649 of 1198

Roger Moore used to be my favorite Bond as a teen, until I was introduced to The Living Daylights and Timothy "I'll fuck you up" Dalton. Then, everything changed....

post #650 of 1198

Freeman, Roger Moore remains my...Favorite James Bond, and My top...003 Bond Films are...

1) The Spy Who Loved Me

2) For Your Eyes Only

3) Moonraker

 

Moore is Bond when the series was filled with...Adventure, Exotic Locales, Gadgets, a...Better Car the Lotus Turbo Espirit, EEEEEvil Villains etc.  As Carly Simon sang...Nobody Does It Better!  Bond with Daniel Craig is a...S.P.E.C.T.R.E of itself!  

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