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SKYFALL Post-Release - Page 17

post #801 of 1166

Casino Royale was New Bond Begins. I would call this Old Bond Begins. They got the Bourne out of their system and they're after something of their own.

post #802 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

 

I feel like Artax drowning in the swamp of sadness reading this. Out of everyone on these boards, I figured you and Mr. Stockslivevan would be with me on fighting for it to return to the beginning (as you both seem to be the biggest Bond fans), Doc. Don't let me down! 

I thought a lot about this late last night after reading your post. Here is what I decided:

 

After the "book end" Gun Barrels in Casino Royale and Quantum, there existed a window to move the gun barrel back up front for the film Mendes and Craig called a "Bond movie with a capital B". They chose not to. For better or worse, the convention is now that the films will end with the gun barrel rather than begin with it. While I might have a fondness for the old style approach, I think now it's too late to change. If you have the gun barrel up front for Bond 24, it's only going to seem disharmonious in the context of Craig's other films. Why one way on one film, and a different way on the next? It draws attention to itself and only makes it seem as if the producers decided putting it at the end was a "wrong" approach and now are taking measures to correct that. If that happens, every time we watch Quantum or Skyfall, we'll think that the gun barrel at the end is a mistake, a flaw in the film. Better to just accept that we have a new convention for the time being. When Craig leaves, moving the gun barrel up front could be a good way to signal that change and differentiate the next actor's tenure. For now though, I think we need to stick with the status quo... which isn't all bad.

 

What are the advantages? It's a damn punchy way to end a Bond movie, and it's proven to be versatile in application thus far. Whether or not it follows a somber shot of a necklace in the snow, or a rousing line delivery ("With pleasure, M. With pleasure"), it's a great way to give a jolt of energy to the end of a Bond movie, and send audiences out on a high note, a way to remind people that James Bond Will Return.

 

Now keep in mind I think Mendes was spot on in his praise for the gun barrel being used at the top of the film. He says the moment the gun barrel happens after the studio logos is "like christmas" because in that moment, "anything is possible". This sums up my own feelings on the gun barrel perfectly. Whatever happens next, you know James Bond will be there, and that's exciting.

 

However the lack of gun barrel up top has opened interesting possibilities that never before existed at the start of a Bond movie.

 

The gun barrel, when it fades out to the circle wipe, seems to always go to a static or panning establishing shot of a location. The few times this has not been the case (TWINE, when the wipe revealed Bond crossing the street), people have actively complained.

 

Without the need to make a graceful transition / wipe from the white circle, you open up the possibilities for opening the film. Quantum has an elegant helicopter shot zooming across a lake, and Skyfall has a cool hallway shot of Bond slowly walking into focus. Neither of these openers would have been possible without the elimination of the gun barrel up front. Instead the reveal of Bond (whether with elemental glimpses of his car, or Craig's flinty eyes in Quantum, or Bond materializing before our eyes in Skyfall) now has taken on increased significance without our first image of Bond in the movie being him walking in a tux against a white background.

 

So I think while we loose a cool tradition, we gain storytelling possibilities (cold opens, Miami Vice theatrical cut style are now an option when they never would have been before). So all in all I think the Craig gun barrel status quo is fine for now.

post #803 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

All of Craig's movies seem to change the general decor of MI6 (though I don't think we see it in Casino Royale).  In Quantum, the place looked like an Apple Store or something.

The touch screen table / scanner was one of the coolest parts of Quantum though. That is what I want to see as far as Bond gadgets in the 21st century. Tech we know exists, just maybe five more years down the line from what's available at the consumer level. That table was boss.

post #804 of 1166

I tried to think of a good counter-argument to what you've written, Doc, but have to admit that your points are well thought out, and that your reasoning for those points is quite sound. I do very much want the gun barrel sequence to return to the beginning, but perhaps it would be best if that waited until the next actor stepped up to play Bond. Unless someone else can counter your points with an equally capable argument, I (unexpectedly) find myself agreeing with you.

post #805 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post

I tried to think of a good counter-argument to what you've written, Doc, but have to admit that your points are well thought out, and that your reasoning for those points is quite sound. I do very much want the gun barrel sequence to return to the beginning, but perhaps it would be best if that waited until the next actor stepped up to play Bond. Unless someone else can counter your points with an equally capable argument, I (unexpectedly) find myself agreeing with you.

I'm honored to hear you think I made a good case for my position. If Michael Fassbender's first Bond film* had the gun barrel back up front, I'd be just as happy as you would be.

 

*he's my choice for who should follow in Craig's footsteps.

post #806 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

 

And again, it seems strange to go back to that version of Bond, when Skyfall puts so much emphasis on Bond as over-the-hill. 

 

 

That's why I don't think they will regress. I think this movie walks such a fine balance, between a reset and critical look at the franchise while also celebrating it, I don't think they're all of a sudden be going back to have him making Moore-era quips and using Connery era-gadgets. The ending, like the rest of the movie, nods at the past while setting the stakes for the future. it proves you can be flexible with the fabric of the material while also keeping stock of the history of the character and what fans of the series expect. 

 

I do think it will be difficult to keep this balance going forward. But if they can do it once...

post #807 of 1166

Damm, she's hot.

 

post #808 of 1166

post #809 of 1166

I've said it once and I'll say it again--nobody does it better than Timothy Dalton.

post #810 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph P. Brenner View Post


That is awesome. It seems they are using the clip from The Spy Who Loved Me for Moore - it appears he doesn't actually fire his gun. In that film the gunshot exits only as a sound effect.
post #811 of 1166

Dalton swings that leg like a goddamn ballerina.  Craig's looks almost lazy.

post #812 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spook View Post

I've said it once and I'll say it again--nobody does it better than Timothy Dalton.

I think Craig's Skyfall gun barrel might be the best yet, or at least my favorite. It's beautifully lit, and Craig has an extremely casual walk, not so much cool as just "under cover", like early Connery (or stunt man, or whatever) Gun Barrel. Then he has a really sudden turn and vicious looking shot, with a nasty expression on his face. It ends in a freeze frame where as many of the other gun barrels featured the actor keeping the pose after they fire.
post #813 of 1166
Both of Craig's gunbarrel sequences feel a bit stiff and 'ah, who gives a shit?' to me. Brosnan's looks the best.
post #814 of 1166

Dalton's is my favorite. Lazenby's "take a knee" approach never jumped out at me until now. Kinda weird. 

post #815 of 1166
Brosnans were very crisp, and he was my favorite till this latest in Skyfall.
post #816 of 1166
Moore's looks like probably the most realistic/accurate firearm handling, though I'm no expert. Two handed grip, what looks like a better stance, less extravagant twirling and awkward posing.
post #817 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Moore's looks like probably the most realistic/accurate firearm handling, though I'm no expert. Two handed grip, what looks like a better stance, less extravagant twirling and awkward posing.

I did an analysis of this on the Bond thread, but Moore only points his gun dead center twice, and once, in the one we see here, he doesn't even fire the gun (a sound effect is the only sign he's fired a shot).

Moore consistently fired wide and to the right, then pointing his gun dead center after he'd already fired his round. You can see it time and time again when you watch those gun barrel compilation videos. His last outing on A View To A Kill is the only time he actually pulls it off convincingly in my opinion.
post #818 of 1166

I could see Skyfall as the third part of a Bond Begins trilogy. At the end of Casino Royale, he's out for revenge. Quantum of Solace shows him coming to terms with Vesper's death and resolving to basically be the coldest motherfucker in the game. Skyfall examines the ramifications of "the mission is everything" and has Bond open up some, ending up at a sort of peace; when Vesper died, he was pretty much quivering with rage and denial, but when M goes, he's able to let go of her, mourn, and then get back to work. We could argue how effective Skyfall (or QoS, for that matter) is at expressing this, but it's a sound character arc.

post #819 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harford View Post

I did an analysis of this on the Bond thread, but Moore only points his gun dead center twice, and once, in the one we see here, he doesn't even fire the gun (a sound effect is the only sign he's fired a shot).
Moore consistently fired wide and to the right, then pointing his gun dead center after he'd already fired his round. You can see it time and time again when you watch those gun barrel compilation videos. His last outing on A View To A Kill is the only time he actually pulls it off convincingly in my opinion.

Ha! Well, so much for that.
post #820 of 1166
Still, Connery, Lazenby, and Dalton together look like they're doing a dance routine. But maybe James Bond was just the inventor of gun-kata
post #821 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

Ha! Well, so much for that.

And I'm not a fire arms guy, but if I am not mistaken Moore appears to be holding his arms too low in the Spy Who Loved Me one used here. Shouldn't one's arms be out straight, not mid torso?
post #822 of 1166
It's undoubtedly not a perfect shooting stance, just slightly more realistic looking than some of the others. When you need to get the drop on someone to your side I doubt the righ technique is dramatically turning and widely swinging your shooting arm into place. But again, I'm no expert. Also was mostly just trying to be funny.
post #823 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post

It's undoubtedly not a perfect shooting stance, just slightly more realistic looking than some of the others.

I'd agree with you there, but I guess we're meant to believe Bond is an expert marksman and capable of hitting this sniper at 15 feet or so with a one handed firing stance.
post #824 of 1166
Yes.
post #825 of 1166

Brosnan and Dalton's gunshots look the best. Lazenby's is just dumb, like Lazenby. I think the world needs to come back around to hating Lazenby, like it was in olden times.

 

In other news, that gif gives me a headache. 

post #826 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post

Brosnan and Dalton's gunshots look the best. Lazenby's is just dumb, like Lazenby. I think the world needs to come back around to hating Lazenby, like it was in olden times.

 

In other news, that gif gives me a headache. 

The first time I saw Lazenby's, I thought it was strange.  Pretty much because they freeze-frame it (well, in any cut of the movie I've seen, it's freeze-framed).  But I really like it now, especially because the blood in Lazenby's actually clouds the view...like real blood would.  Blood isn't transparent.  

 

Also!  In Lazenby's, there is a subtle special effect to make it look like light is bouncing/twirling around inside the gunbarrel.  It was modest but pretty successful.  They didn't try it again until Goldeneye--and they absolutely nailed it there.  

 

One other thing I think I might mention is that, in most cases, the Gunbarrels are filmed once and then used throughout the rest of the actor's tenure.  Roger did two...note the 1977 flares being used up through 1985.  If he had shot a new gunbarrel each time, they would have given him a new set of pants by 1983, at least.  Craig's done at least two (I'm not sure if the gunbarrels at the end of Quantum and Skyfall are identical or not).  Connery did one, and it was used in his last three movies, and if you all are being honest with yourselves, it's terrible.  He loses his balance...it's unbelievable they used that particular take.  Brosnan did one, and Dalton did one...and theirs really work.  Stuntman Bob Simmons was in the gunbarrel used for Dr. No, FRWL, and Goldfinger.  

post #827 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post

The first time I saw Lazenby's, I thought it was strange.  Pretty much because they freeze-frame it (well, in any cut of the movie I've seen, it's freeze-framed).  But I really like it now, especially because the blood in Lazenby's actually clouds the view...like real blood would.  Blood isn't transparent.  

Also!  In Lazenby's, there is a subtle special effect to make it look like light is bouncing/twirling around inside the gunbarrel.  It was modest but pretty successful.  They didn't try it again until Goldeneye--and they absolutely nailed it there.  

One other thing I think I might mention is that, in most cases, the Gunbarrels are filmed once and then used throughout the rest of the actor's tenure.  Roger did two...note the 1977 flares being used up through 1985.  If he had shot a new gunbarrel each time, they would have given him a new set of pants by 1983, at least.  Craig's done at least two (I'm not sure if the gunbarrels at the end of Quantum and Skyfall are identical or not).  Connery did one, and it was used in his last three movies, and if you all are being honest with yourselves, it's terrible.  He loses his balance...it's unbelievable they used that particular take.  Brosnan did one, and Dalton did one...and theirs really work.  Stuntman Bob Simmons was in the gunbarrel used for Dr. No, FRWL, and Goldfinger.  

I definitely think you're wrong about Brosnan doing one. There are subtle differences between his four gun barrels. Craig's Skyfall gun barrel is unique to that film as well.
post #828 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Nope, Brosnan only did one and shot it for GE, you can tell by his big hair.
post #829 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post

Nope, Brosnan only did one and shot it for GE, you can tell by his big hair.

Yes, I'm almost certain Brosnan did one gunbarrel, and they re-used it.  I mean, he got it right the first time, and the computer effects were good, so I guess there was no need to mess with it.

post #830 of 1166

My but this thread took a turn for the 'spergy.

 

RUNNING NECK SNAP OHHHH YEEEEAH

post #831 of 1166

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr_PGZtP0UM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

 

All the gunbarrel sequences, through 2008.  

post #832 of 1166
Oh god, those awful 90s techno bits in the themes for the Brosnan films. And the CGI bullet.
post #833 of 1166

Haha, that's awesome!  I like the slower tempo of You Only Live Twice. 

post #834 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Damm, she's hot.

 

Raise your hand if you want them to bring her back  (Maud Adams style!)  in the next film.

 

So wasted.

post #835 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by machiav View Post

Raise your hand if you want them to bring her back  (Maud Adams style!)  in the next film.

 

So wasted.

 

I'll settle for The Story Of Severine, about her life before she met Bond or Silva, filmed in the style of 70s European softcore art-porn.

post #836 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by littlenomad View Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr_PGZtP0UM&feature=endscreen&NR=1

All the gunbarrel sequences, through 2008.  

So, as they are:

DN, FRWL, GF: Bob Simmons
TB, YOLT, DAF: Sean Connery
OHMSS: George Lazenby
LALD, TMWTGG: Roger Moore (flat version)
TSWLM, MR, FYEO, OP: AVTAK: Roger Moore (anamorphic version)
TLD, LTK: Timothy Dalton
GE, TND, TWINE, DAD: Pierce Brosnan
CR: Daniel Craig
QOS: Daniel Craig
SF: Daniel Craig

So, Craig now beats Moore at making the most gunbarrels. One feature I loved in OHMSS and DAF was the colorful shimmering effect (makes me wonder why Binder didn't continue with that in later films), and it looks like Kleinman brought that back for SF.


post #837 of 1166

This thread is already four pages longer than the entire year's worth of Quantum Of Solace Post-Release Thread posts.

 

Is it me, or does the title sequence show close-ups of Bond's eyes both as a boy and as a man?

post #838 of 1166
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

Is it me, or does the title sequence show close-ups of Bond's eyes both as a boy and as a man?
Yup, likely a reference to the priest hole with Bond entering it as a boy and coming out as a man.
post #839 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Stockslivevan View Post


Yup, likely a reference to the priest hole with Bond entering it as a boy and coming out as a man.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

This thread is already four pages longer than the entire year's worth of Quantum Of Solace Post-Release Thread posts.

 

Is it me, or does the title sequence show close-ups of Bond's eyes both as a boy and as a man?

 

Ha. Hadn't noticed this. This title sequence continues to get better and better.

post #840 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parker View Post

Dalton's is my favorite. Lazenby's "take a knee" approach never jumped out at me until now. Kinda weird. 

Makes most sense of all of them though. Lower and smaller target profile. Particularly if you assume your bad guy is going for a headshot.

I gave that far more thought than it deserved...
post #841 of 1166

Finally saw this today.  It's okay, but far from great.  Better than QoS but, that's not hard and I'd put it in the bottom half of Bond films.

 

Definitely shades of the Joker with the escape sequence, even mirroring Joker's joyride with Bardem in the SUV.  I hated most of that sequence, I felt insulted when the laptop was brought in to MI6 and knew what was to come - I actually felt an urge to walk out when the new Q hooked it up to the network.

 

Also, where was the bullet wound from Moneypenny's shot?  The big scar seemed to be from the bad guy, since that's the one he dug the fragments out of.  Or were the two wounds almost on top of each other?

post #842 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post


Makes most sense of all of them though. Lower and smaller target profile. Particularly if you assume your bad guy is going for a headshot.
I gave that far more thought than it deserved...

 

Heh. When the conversation turns to the Bond title sequence posts at a time, it's nerdy, but fun cool.

When people start discussing things like "which gun barrel version makes the most sense" and criticizing the angles certain Bond's are using, analyzing their stances, etc, well...

post #843 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Phibes View Post

Is it me, or does the title sequence show close-ups of Bond's eyes both as a boy and as a man?

 

I was confused about that too until I saw the title sequence that was made available online again.

post #844 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by sirjonsnow View Post

 

Also, where was the bullet wound from Moneypenny's shot?  The big scar seemed to be from the bad guy, since that's the one he dug the fragments out of.  Or were the two wounds almost on top of each other?

 

It's lower. I didn't notice it the first time because the wound he dug the fragments out of us so dramatic, but it's there. He tells Moneypenny that she "broke a few ribs" or something. He actually has several scars on him that could be bullet wounds. 

post #845 of 1166
Quote:
He actually has several scars on him that could be bullet wounds.

 

 

I like to imagine these are all from previous Moneypenny team-ups.

post #846 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian OB View Post

 

It's lower. I didn't notice it the first time because the wound he dug the fragments out of us so dramatic, but it's there. He tells Moneypenny that she "broke a few ribs" or something. He actually has several scars on him that could be bullet wounds. 

I can't find the Moneypenny wound, Sebastian.  I'm seeing Skyfall again this weekend...where should I look?  What scene is it visible in?  I've only seen the shrapnel wounds.

post #847 of 1166

Finally saw this great Bond movie, in IMAX. I was not at all prepared for how much I truly wanted to cheer out loud when the Aston sped down London's streets with the old school Bond theme playing.  Wow.

post #848 of 1166

When I saw Skyfall, the crowd "ohhhed" when the Aston Martin was revealed. As they should of.

post #849 of 1166

Happily, the only problem I have with this movie is such a minor one; occasionally the score would wander into Baraka territory, causing my enjoyment of a spy movie to be sprinkled with Koyaanisqatsi-esque expectations.  

post #850 of 1166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

When I saw Skyfall, the crowd "ohhhed" when the Aston Martin was revealed. As they should of.
Same here, lotsa whistles too.

Am I the only one that has come to the kinda weird conclusion that Judi Dench is the "main" Bond Girl in this one.
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