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2012 -2013 NBA Season - Page 5

post #201 of 719
Thread Starter 

Cracked up at Bill Simmons' prediction that Raymond Felton will be the first player to win "Comeback Player of the Year" for no longer being fat.

post #202 of 719
Thread Starter 

Oh, and what do you guys think about the whole KG/Melo "Your wife tastes like Honey Nut Cheerios" inncident? I find it hilarious.

 

However as Simmons noted on Grantland, KG's trash talking has backfired of late, verbally bullying him for most of the series, it pushed LeBron into having the big Game 6 against the C's last year.

post #203 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Oh, and what do you guys think about the whole KG/Melo "Your wife tastes like Honey Nut Cheerios" inncident? I find it hilarious.

 

 

Totally bogus.

 

La La tastes more like strawberry.

post #204 of 719

Sobering thought: If (when) the Lakers lose to OKC tonight, they'll be 5.5 games behind Houston for the last playoff spot...and 4 games ahead of New Orleans and Phoenix. 36 games into the season, they'll be closer to last place in the West than they are to a playoff spot. Yikes.

 

Right now, it looks like there are 4 real title contenders: Thunder, Clippers, Spurs and Heat. Statistically, the Heat are currently way behind the others, but to me they have the same feel as the '01 Lakers, who knew they were the best team in the league and just turned it on in the playoffs. The Spurs and Clippers are both insanely balanced right now: the Spurs are 5th offensively and 4th defensively, and the Clippers are 4th and 3rd respectively.

post #205 of 719

yep clever, I am pretty much resigned to the Lakers missing playoffs and blowing this whole mess up. Unfortunately, I dont think they will dump Dantoni and we will end up begining rebuilding under a flawed model. Such a shame really, because a just your average NBA coach takes these guys to the playoffs. It's just we had two head men insisting on implementing systems that dont suit the personel on this team.

 

I am rooting for the Thunder to take the title, because I really like Westbrook, Durant and Ibaka. Clever, you certainly called it right with Martin, he has fit in well.

 

While I love Chris Paul, he is really the only player I am crazy about on the Clips...they have a nice roster, but I still have big doubts about their ability to win a playoff series against a championship caliber opponent.

 

The Heat just need to be healthy and polished by the time the playoffs role around, then we will see what they have. Lebron still looks like the most dominant force in basketball.

 

I think it comes down to the Heat and Thunder again, barring injury.

post #206 of 719

Lakers need to just tank the season and get a high pick in the draft. Who knows, it may be like when the Knicks got to pick Ewing all over again. i.e. FIXED

post #207 of 719

I love seeing the Lakers drown in their own douchiness, couldn't happen to a more deserving franchise.

 

My Grizz having a good season is just wonderful!  I would love the NBA finals to be a battle of a couple small market teams, maybe the NBA would wake up and run their league with half a brain for once.

post #208 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post

Lakers need to just tank the season and get a high pick in the draft. Who knows, it may be like when the Knicks got to pick Ewing all over again. i.e. FIXED


Lakers pick goes to PHX if its lottery, is my understanding.

post #209 of 719
Thread Starter 

C's have won 5 in a row. Starting to click. The Rondo-Bradley backcourt is a defensive monster.

post #210 of 719

And just when you start to think you know what's going on in this league, Orlando beats the Clippers in Staples. Any given night...

post #211 of 719
Thread Starter 

Brook Lopez kind of reminds me of an amalgam of Rony Seikaly and Bison Dele.

post #212 of 719
Thread Starter 

Like Bill Simmons, I like to play "What if?". Don't you think we could be talking about an all-timer team in OKC if they'd kept James Harden? One of the all-time great "Big 3's".

post #213 of 719
Thread Starter 

If the Celtics fall short in the playoffs again this year, i think they'll be the best team to only win one championship since the early 80's 76ers.

post #214 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

Like Bill Simmons, I like to play "What if?". Don't you think we could be talking about an all-timer team in OKC if they'd kept James Harden? One of the all-time great "Big 3's".

 

 

It would be cool, but I like the role that Kevin Martin is playing in his absence. The Thunder do need a solid back up point guard. As a Celtics fan, what are your thoughts on Perkins? Lots of talk around here of dissatisfaction with his role.

post #215 of 719

I think the Harden deal is one of those super rare win-win cases. We don't know how good OKC would be with Harden, but Martin has meshed perfectly, and they picked up plenty of assets and the financial ability to keep their core together. The Rockets would obviously do that trade 100 times out of 100.

post #216 of 719

I had to talk a friend of mine through a NBA parlay ticket today.  It's amusing she took my advice.  And the Grizz.  Homer much?

post #217 of 719

Lets just all pause for a moment to acknowledge the marvel that is Tim Duncan. In 29 minutes tonight, he had 12 points, 9 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals and 7 blocks! Unreal. Guys his age are not supposed to have defensive seasons as good as this. Duncan is playing the best defense he's played in the last 5 years (at least), and he's doing it at 36. Simply incredible.

post #218 of 719
Thread Starter 

The Hawks were absolutely destroyed and embarrassed by the Bulls last night (20 first half points -say wha?). Not sure what's wrong with the team after but the great start, but may come down to Josh smith not having the temperament to be the leader of a team.

post #219 of 719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navidson View Post

 

 

As a Celtics fan, what are your thoughts on Perkins? Lots of talk around here of dissatisfaction with his role.

I always loved Perk in the Celtics days, and hated to see him go. I think the tandom of him and Ibaka have the ability to lock opponent's big men down; a secret/important weapon come playoff time. Not sure what more of a role he could want. He's not exactly an offensive threat.

post #220 of 719
Thread Starter 

I was happy to see the Celtics and Clips get two all-stars apiece, even though with KG it's a lifetime achievement type deal.

 

The TNT crew made their picks for the reserves tonight and it was cool to see props given to Jamal Crawford and J.R. Smith.

post #221 of 719
Thread Starter 

A bit of random: watching the Rockets play last night, I was struck by the thought that Chandler Parsons reminds me of a cool Kiki Vandeweghe.

post #222 of 719
Thread Starter 

Like Barkley, I've thought this year Dwayne Wade is on the verge of a Mitch Richmond-like fade, but he's looking lively tonight.

post #223 of 719

52 points on 13 buckets is a bit bullshit.

post #224 of 719

21/21 from the line. Needed everyone of those. Imagine if he hit a few more from the field during the 4th.
 

post #225 of 719
Thread Starter 

Just watched a pretty good doc on the NBATV channel on the 91-92 back-to-back champion Duke Blue Devils. Hated the team at the time (I was a Michigan guy), but have come to respect them. A shame Laettner couldn't carry over the arrogance that gave him such an edge into the pros. I liked him when he was on the Hawks, but he didn't have that nastiness and he wasn't "the guy" on the team.

post #226 of 719
Thread Starter 

Celtics now 20-20, and have lost 3 in a row, after what i thought was a season turning around 6 game winning streak. They're frustrating to root for right now.

post #227 of 719


 

post #228 of 719

As it now appears inevitable that the Kings will leave Sacramento, let's all take a moment to pause and remember the biggest moment in franchise history... when the Lakers shot 27 free throws in the fourth quarter of the Tim Donaghy reffed game 6 of the Western Conference Finals.

 

post #229 of 719

Every mention of the Kings reminds me how much I miss Rick Adelman.  Portland should have never fired him.

 

Go Timberwolves.

post #230 of 719

I really like Adelman, I think he's a terrific coach. Really, I'm just a sucker for great big man passing, and you get a lot of that in his Princeton-style offense. Those Sacramento teams were a thing of beauty to watch.

post #231 of 719
Thread Starter 

NBATV had a trio of classic Olajuwon "Greatest Games" on tonite. Watched a little of Game 7 of the '87 Western Conference semi-finals Rockets vs Sonics. The under 500 Sonics were coming off knocking off the 50 win Dallas in the first round, and then upset the Twin Towers in this deciding 7th game, despite Dream's 49 point 25 rebounds. The 'Big 3' of Dale Ellis, Xavier McDaniel, and Tom Chambers were a favorite of mine, but sadly never duplicated that successful run.

post #232 of 719
Thread Starter 

Kyrie Irving killed the Celtics tonite. 19 in the first quarter. He was torching Bradley, one of the best on the ball defenders in the game. Yeah, I think he's an All-Star.

post #233 of 719

Yeah, he's a stud. He might have the savviest game of any 20 year old ever. His ball handling and footwork are amazing.

 

Really good trade for Memphis and Cleveland both today. Speights is a talented big man who is worth a look for the Cavs, and they pick up yet another first rounder. For Memphis, they get under the tax and don't have to worry about trading Gay, and they don't really lose much since Darrell Arthur replicates a lot of what Speights does. Also, don't sleep on Jon Leuer, who looks like a throw-in, but could actually make a difference for Memphis. He played really well last year in limited minutes, and he brings perimeter shooting, which the Grizz desperately need. Also, as Kevin Pelton noted on ESPN.com today, he was highly ranked by John Hollinger (new VP of Basketball Operations in Memphis) when he was in the draft.

post #234 of 719
Thread Starter 

Clips without CP3 lose the showdown with OKC. (What a bummer of a night!) Durant effortlessly shredded anyone who guarded him. I think he's passed Melo as the leading MVP candiate.

post #235 of 719

Was Melo ever the leading MVP candidate? Sure, he's having a nice season, but he's not nearly at the LeBron/KD level. Bron should win again this year, he's still easily the best player on the planet, but OKC will have a better record and people are tired of voting for him.

post #236 of 719
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SomethingClever View Post

Was Melo ever the leading MVP candidate? Sure, he's having a nice season, but he's not nearly at the LeBron/KD level.

He was mine. He was a scoring machine out the gate, and finally doing the dirty work things, leading his team to one of the best records. Lately as he's slipped, so has the team. So now i give the edge to KD.

 

Watched a little Lakers v Grizz on League Pass. The Lake show is continuing to fizzle. The frustration is starting to show on Kobe. Supposedly team had a closed door meeting yesterday, where grievances were finally aired. Didn't help tonite, but we'll soon see if they can come together for a playoff run. Weirdly, I find myself rooting for Kobe, and hoping he leads a turnaround.

post #237 of 719

Loved seeing my no-All-Star-having Grizz beat down the Lakers.  It would take many years of this before the schadenfreude could ever turn to sympathy for that franchise.

 

ETA: Z-Bo made it!  Guess I can't ride that pity train anymore.


Edited by kernel - 1/24/13 at 10:08pm
post #238 of 719
Thread Starter 

C's lost a heartbreaker tonite. They played with as much energy as i've seen them play with this season, and Rondo was awesome- another triple double, agressively looking to score - but it wasn't enough. J.R. Smith with the dagger.

post #239 of 719

Full All-Star rosters are out. Mostly right with a few notable errors.

 

West:

 

- Duncan should clearly be starting. Obviously that's in the fans' hands and it doesn't matter, but it's ridiculous how good he is this season.

- Gasol is the best two-way center in the league. He's the most important player on the Grizzlies, and should have made it over Z-Bo.

- Curry is definitely an All-Star this year. Aldridge is definitely not.

- Dwight just barely makes my squad. Even as un-Dwight as he's been this season, just think how disastrous that Lakers defense would be without him there.

 

So, drop Randolph and Aldridge for Curry and Gasol, and have Duncan start instead of Howard and you've got my team.

 

East:

 

- Look, Luol Deng is a fine player. He's an above-average defender, plays lots of minutes and does lots of different things well. He also averages 16 points per 36 minutes and doesn't do so particularly efficiently. Not an All-Star this season.

- I've been pretty vocally not a Rajon Rondo fan, but you can argue that he shouldn't even be an All-Star, much less a starter. The perception of how good Rondo is so vastly outweighs how good he actually is. Regardless of his athleticism and what he's capable of doing, what he does on a consistent basis is overpass to the point of individual and team detriment. He rarely looks for his own shot, doesn't shoot it well when he does, and as a result turns the ball over at a higher rate than any guard in the league. He just hasn't been a plus offensively overall this season, and it shows in the fact that he leads the league's 27th ranked offense. Even if Rondo were an otherworldly defender (and he's not on most nights), he's still so far behind guys like Irving and Williams offensively that it doesn't make up the difference.

- You know who is an otherworldly defender? Paul George. He's not a great offensive player, but he's really stepped up over the past month or so as he's gotten used to taking on a starring offensive role in Granger's absence. On the other end though, he's a shutdown defender who can match up with forwards or guards, and is a huge reason why Indiana has the best defense in the league. I'm ok with his selection.

- As I said above, Deron Williams absolutely deserves an All-Star spot above Rondo. He's a much more efficient offensive player than Rondo, even as poorly as he's shot this year. He turns the ball over at a much lower rate, and he gets to the free throw line and rarely misses when he gets there. That's not flashy, but it adds up to a huge difference. He's not quite the Deron he's been in years past, but reports of his demise have been MUCH exaggerated.

- On that note, I've never been a Brook Lopez fan, but he's been absolutely fantastic this season. He's rebounding better (not well, but better), playing marginally better defense, and has been an absolute offensive force in the post. He's almost certainly the best offensive center in the game right now. He should be there instead of Deng, and it's criminal that he isn't.

 

Irving should be the starting point guard. Drop Rondo and Deng for Williams and Lopez. (I'm not even a Nets fan, I don't think they're that great a team, but those guys are both more deserving of All-Star recognition than Deng and Rondo).

post #240 of 719
Thread Starter 

I rate Rondo as the best PG in the East, with on the rise Irving # 2. Deron Williams is overrated, and even he says he's not having an all-star year.

 

I also rate Z-Bo as the Grizzlies best player. He's like a throwback to Moses Malone.

post #241 of 719
Thread Starter 

Another heartbreaking loss for my Celtics! Double overtime. They built a 27 point lead against the Hawks, lost the lead, retook it and pushed it to 10, and then lost it again, before finally fading to 10 back in the second overtime. Korver had 8 3's in the second half. Man, this one hurt!

 

Rondo had another triple double, but he didn't look for penatrating scores enough.

post #242 of 719

Not loving the red, blue, and gold combo the Pelicans chose.  On the upshot, this is a good look:

 

post #243 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Elvis View Post

I rate Rondo as the best PG in the East, with on the rise Irving # 2. Deron Williams is overrated, and even he says he's not having an all-star year.

 

I also rate Z-Bo as the Grizzlies best player. He's like a throwback to Moses Malone.

 

You obviously watch Rondo more and are more invested in him than I am (which has its advantages and disadvantages as far as analyzing players), so you'll have to make the case for him. For me, I just can't see it. I think he's wildly overrated, and I can't fathom how he's come to be considered an elite point guard. Here's my case:

 

1) Rondo is a very good defensive player, no disputing that. As with many star players though, his reputation is inflated. He broke into the league as a defensive specialist, but as he's become a more prominent player, his defense has dropped off some and he gambles more. Again, he's a good defender, but not dominant one. Add to that the fact that defense is comparatively less important for guards. It's much harder for guards to have a massive impact on a game defensively than it is for big men. Offense is largely guard-driven while defensive is largely post-driven. Not that defense isn't important for guards, but if given the choice you'd always take offense over defense in a point guard (which is why Steve Nash has 2 MVP awards), and you have to be an otherworldly defender to make up for offensive deficiencies.

 

2) Rondo isn't a good scorer. He just isn't. First, he rarely looks to score. He's 60th among guards in points per 36 minutes this season. He actively avoids looking for his own shot. This wouldn't be such a bad thing, but Rondo is also inefficient with the shots he does take. His true shooting percentage is .516, which is very poor for a guy who takes so few shots. For comparison's sake, Williams is at .535 and Irving is at .575 (despite taking on a much greater scoring load than Rondo). His shooting from the field has improved some, but he doesn't get to the free throw line and shoots free throws poorly, which drags down his efficiency.

 

3) The easiest attribute to point to in Rondo's support is his passing. After all, he's leading the league in assists by a fairly large margin. The problem is that the shots Rondo creates aren't really good shots. The majority of Rondo's assists come on two-point jump shots (50.5% according to 82games.com), which are the least efficient shots in the game. Compare that to Irving (35.6%) and Williams (28.3%) who produce less total assists, but their assists are of a higher quality. Rondo may create a lot of shots, but he doesn't create a lot of good shots, and that's the key. There's a reason why the Celtics are the 27th ranked offense in the league.

 

4) Rondo turns the ball over more than any guard that gets significant minutes, and the difference between him and the next guy is pretty significant. Turnovers are easy to overlook because they don't usually catch the eye in the box score, but they're hugely important. Most of the league's point guards have a turnover rate of around 14%, Rondo's is 22.6%. That's a massive difference, and it really kills Rondo's efficiency.

 

5) The result of all this is that Rondo doesn't consistently create efficient shots on offense. His usage rate is 21.7%, and his offensive rating is just 103. Compare that with Irving (30.3%, 110) and Williams (23.5%, 113), and you can see how far behind Rondo falls. Even if those stats are far from perfect, that's a massive gap in offensive production. As I mentioned above, it isn't just individual performance either. The Celtics' Rondo-led offense is one of the worst in the league. That's no anomaly this year either. They had the 27th ranked offense last season, and the 18th before that. How can he be considered an elite point guard if he consistently leads below-average to terrible offenses?

 

Anyway, that's what I see when I look at Rondo. I'd love to hear a convincing case for him, but I can't see it right now.

post #244 of 719

I wish I were more invested in this NBA season, but I'm not, because my team sucks, abut also because some of the most hyped players in the League are painfully, obviously juiced.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8884955/mlb-investigating-south-florida-ground-zero-ped-war
 

The same sons of bitches supplying HGH and blood boosters to the ballplayers are providing those same services to Pat Riley, and very likely countless other NBA players. I have been consistently baffled by both the press and the fans in their steadfast incapacity to simply look at some of the guys playing and put 2 and 2 together. 

Of course, nobody should be surprised by this collective delusion, since the exact same thing happened when McGwire and Sosa were smashing stupid arcs into the upper level. 

Remember that shit come playoff time, when everyone is marveling over LeBrons superhuman ability to play 40 minutes+, all season long, and maintain that level of effort after all his mortal foils have fallen off. Or the next time D-Wade manages to rip his muscles clear from the bone when he's lifting weights. 

Baseball already had its doping scandal. They have responded aggressively and appropriately. Is the League's image-sensitive apparatus ready to do the same? 

 

post #245 of 719

I have recently wondered this myself Zhukov when the Lance Armstrong thing was covered ad infinitum and especially watching the Heat play the Lakers. Lebron just kind of looks like one of the Space Jam monsters barreling down the court and mowing people over under the rim for second chance points. I didn't want to sound like an outrageous jealous sports fan, so I kept it to myself.

 

I think it will be a while before the NBA does anything. Here's a quote from David Stern from some time ago:
 

The NBA had no evidence in 1999 (and we have none today) to suggest even minimal use of steroids or performance-enhancing substances by NBA players. Indeed, some have suggested that the sport of basketball — which emphasizes quickness, agility, dexterity, and skill above all other physical attributes – does not lend itself to the use of steroids and performance-enhancing substances, which are primarily used to build muscle mass, strength, and endurance

post #246 of 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhukov View Post

I wish I were more invested in this NBA season, but I'm not, because my team sucks, abut also because some of the most hyped players in the League are painfully, obviously juiced.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/8884955/mlb-investigating-south-florida-ground-zero-ped-war
 

The same sons of bitches supplying HGH and blood boosters to the ballplayers are providing those same services to Pat Riley, and very likely countless other NBA players. I have been consistently baffled by both the press and the fans in their steadfast incapacity to simply look at some of the guys playing and put 2 and 2 together. 

Of course, nobody should be surprised by this collective delusion, since the exact same thing happened when McGwire and Sosa were smashing stupid arcs into the upper level. 

Remember that shit come playoff time, when everyone is marveling over LeBrons superhuman ability to play 40 minutes+, all season long, and maintain that level of effort after all his mortal foils have fallen off. Or the next time D-Wade manages to rip his muscles clear from the bone when he's lifting weights. 

Baseball already had its doping scandal. They have responded aggressively and appropriately. Is the League's image-sensitive apparatus ready to do the same? 

 

 

Not saying that there isn't PED use in basketball, because there probably is to some extent (though we have no way of knowing how pervasive it is), but saying that article proves Miami players are juicing is a stretch.

 

Maybe LeBron is juicing, but it would have nothing to do with being in Miami. He's been the freakiest athlete on the planet since he was 17, it's not like any of this is new since he joined the Heat.

post #247 of 719
Thread Starter 

A bittersweet win for my Celtics (double overtime again!), with the news that Rondo has a torn ACL, and is likely out for the year. Damn.

 

To defend him a little bit to Clever, I think he is the best PG in the East, and a top 5er overall, judging him on what he's done for the team during its 5 year run. I'm not a stats guy, and your points remind me of an article i read a few years ago when Nate Robinson was on the team, that they actually played better with Robinson running the show. Didn't buy it then, and don't buy the argument against now. I only can go by what I see. He has a knack for slithering to the basket, and during big playoff games, he looks to finish and score. He's got that cool move where he brings the ball halfway behind his back, faking the pass, and then extending and laying it up. It seems to work everytime. When the game is big, he rises to the occasion.

 

I most vehemently disagree about your knocking of his passing. I disagree that setting up teammates for open jumpers are bad assists. That's basically what one of the greatest passers of all time, Bob Cousy, was all about. A bullet pass right on the money, after you've drawn defenders to you, is a nice assist in my book.

 

I'll also stand by Rondo on his defense. He's one of the clutch thieves in the game. And he's maybe the best rebounding guards out there.

 

In conclusion, Rondo is unorthodox at times, but he's a winner. A franchise player. And a true Celtic.

 

I'm gonna miss watching him play the rest of the year.

post #248 of 719

I think the Celtics should blow it up now. Why would they put themselves through a season where they know now they probably won't win. They were struggling with Rondo. Without him? It's over. Time to trade Garnett and Pierce to contenders, get some good draft picks and rebuild. This could make things really interesting if they do decide to blow it up. I wonder where Garnett and Pierce would go. I'd love to see either one of them on the Spurs with Duncan, Ginobili and Parker. Duncan/Garnett would be freaking awesome even at this stage of their careers. Pierce going to the Clippers or somewhere would be very interesting. I wonder if the Lakers will blow it up too? Yeah, they had a good win tonight but unless Kobe decides to go out and average 10 assists every game nothing is going to change with that team.

post #249 of 719

I have been wanting Kobe to play more as a distributer for years. Given Nash's inability to bring the ball up against defensive pressure, we may see what Kobe as distributer could look like. I don't think he can sustain it for any length of time. He tends to try to force passes, and with his mileage, I doubt he could sustain it. But it certainly seems to be the only path to a winning record out there right now.

 

For the past 2 games the Lakers have been playing more to their strengths, getting good shots, exploiting matchups, better spacing....and most importantly getting back on defense. This is definately a flawed team, but it would be nice to see them put together a run, after the horror show that was the first half of the season.

 

As a Rondo fan, I am bummed to see him injured. Clever makes some good points regarding his efficiency....I would be curious to look at true shooting percentage and the assist breakdown's he cites. No wonder he is so often on the money....he studies the secret stats. But all in all, I love heart and hustle in a player...and Rondo has both.

post #250 of 719

I feel for you, that's a tough break. Sucks for Rondo and Celtics fans. Coming at this point in the season, it probably torpedoes both this season and next. Danny Ainge certainly has some tough decisions coming up.

 

I understand loving to watch Rondo, as you say he's one of the most unique players in the league. He really is a fascinating guy to watch. However I think that uniqueness and flashiness tends to make people overrate him though, especially if you watch him a lot. We tend to remember the spectacular plays and forget the minor mistakes. It's how Kobe got the reputation for being the league's best clutch shooter. He take the most shots at the end of games and he's on national TV all the time, so we remember the huge makes and forget all the misses. It's just how our minds work. With a unique, talented guy like Rondo, you're going to remember the fake behind the backs far more than you remember missed free throws and innocuous turnovers.

 

Stats can certainly be used poorly. Particularly things like on/off-court plus/minus are really tricky, since they have small sample sizes and high variance. That's probably where that Robinson thing came from. However, just because stats can me misused doesn't mean they aren't useful. The thing with Rondo is that we have actually a rather large sample size to work with. His offensive numbers haven't been good the last 3 years, and the Celtics' offense which he leads has been abysmal. In fact, over the last few years as Rondo's roll in the offense has increased, the offense has gotten worse, as have Rondo's numbers.

 

As to the passing, I'm not saying that passing to an open shooter isn't a "good assist". It is, however, a less valuable assist than a pass that leads to a layup, and it's significantly less valuable. Particularly, passes that lead to long two-point jumpers are the least valuable. Again though, the proof is in the pudding. The Celtics offense stinks, and it stank last year. I can't consider Rondo an elite point guard if he consistently leads below average to terrible offenses.

 

To say that he's "a winner" is all well and good, but from my perspective, he's a winner because he's been lucky enough to play on a team with a bunch of great players.

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