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Justified - Season 4 - Page 5

post #201 of 358
Thread Starter 

I enjoyed how both Raylan and Boyd realized the Drew/Shelby connection via stories from the not-so-bright secondary characters. It was an amusing parallel.

post #202 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

I enjoyed how both Raylan and Boyd realized the Drew/Shelby connection via stories from the not-so-bright secondary characters. It was an amusing parallel.

 

Did Boyd figure out it out from Colt? I thought maybe he just went to Shelby's to find Ellen May, thinking he was hiding her and potentially building a case against him, but when Raylan and all the marshals popped out, he quickly put it together that they were there for Drew.

 

Like I said, my mind was a little pre-occuppied, so this episode will need a second viewing. I'm still trying to figure out the house cleaner thing.

post #203 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by HypnoToad View Post

 

Did Boyd figure out it out from Colt? I thought maybe he just went to Shelby's to find Ellen May, thinking he was hiding her and potentially building a case against him, but when Raylan and all the marshals popped out, he quickly put it together that they were there for Drew.

 

Like I said, my mind was a little pre-occuppied, so this episode will need a second viewing. I'm still trying to figure out the house cleaner thing.

 

I think you're correct.  Boyd was just a step behind Raylan, he'd figured out (thanks to Ava) that Drew likely wasn't one of the rich people on the hill but rather an employee of the rich people on the hill, which led him to the security people at the festival.  He hadn't been able to follow up on that properly when everything went down with Colt.

 

He made the connections instantly when he saw Raylan but he was in cuffs by that point.  I do wonder how every one of those cops made it inside Shelby's house without any of their cars being visible from the road, however.  But that's just nitpicking good TV.

 

This may have been my favorite Raylan/Wynn interaction yet which is saying something.  "Whatever your shortcomings, I believe that you're sincere."

post #204 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

Tim's awesome, but I subscribe to Joss Whedon's theory that the best TV shows don't give you what you want, they give you what you need. Killing Tim might be the kind of jolt this show needs as it gets deep into its middle years.

 

They just killed Arlo, and I suspect Ava's ending the season in jail. That's probably enough for now.

post #205 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

I'm of that mind too, however, I think I'm more attached to Tim than Raylan (who is pretty much an unrelenting ass to him) is, so I'm not loving this as a particular example of it.  It would anger the fans (well, me anyway), without necessarily providing the story boost of a huge body blow to the protagonist.

 

But Raylan's an unrelenting ass to everyone! I think the two are close enough for it to work. They even had that nice little moment this week where Tim offered to cover for Raylan while he scampered around with Hunter. Raylan seemed almost touched.

post #206 of 358
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HypnoToad View Post

 

Did Boyd figure out it out from Colt? I thought maybe he just went to Shelby's to find Ellen May, thinking he was hiding her and potentially building a case against him, but when Raylan and all the marshals popped out, he quickly put it together that they were there for Drew.

 

Like I said, my mind was a little pre-occuppied, so this episode will need a second viewing. I'm still trying to figure out the house cleaner thing.


yeah, you're right. I just thought I saw something in Boyd's reaction when he made the connection between Shelby/Drew/Ellen May...


Edited by VTRan - 3/6/13 at 9:57am
post #207 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

 

But Raylan's an unrelenting ass to everyone! I think the two are close enough for it to work. They even had that nice little moment this week where Tim offered to cover for Raylan while he scampered around with Hunter. Raylan seemed almost touched.

 

I don't know, I thought "almost touched" looked a lot like "hanging up without seeming to register that a favor was being offered to him."

post #208 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post

 

.  I do wonder how every one of those cops made it inside Shelby's house without any of their cars being visible from the road, however.  But that's just nitpicking good TV.

 

 

They were hoping Shelby would stop at home and a driveway full of cop cars would be a slight tip off.  Most bad tv shows have cop cars nowhere to be found.  maybe The Following doesn't but I stopped after eppy 2

 

Killing Art is the only thing that would put Raylan off.  Tim and Rachel would be a blip by comparison.

post #209 of 358

Wait, Rachel?  Who's Rachel? 

 

 

Oh yeah!  I forgot about her entirely.  I eagerly await a time in the hopefully near furture where the writers gove Erica Tazel a decent damned subplot to exist in.  Granted, it took them this many seasons to give Tim something to do, so I'm not holding my breath.

post #210 of 358

They need to bring back Jackie Nevada.

 

Can I get a witness?

post #211 of 358

I'm certain they will.  You don't go out of your way to create a character named "Jackie Nevada", a gorgeous, barely-jailbait card shark, and then only have her show up once.

post #212 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anyawatchin Angel View Post

They were hoping Shelby would stop at home and a driveway full of cop cars would be a slight tip off.  Most bad tv shows have cop cars nowhere to be found.  maybe The Following doesn't but I stopped after eppy 2

 

Killing Art is the only thing that would put Raylan off.  Tim and Rachel would be a blip by comparison.

 

They weren't lying in wait in a darkened home, it was lit up like a Christmas tree with a dozen cops rummaging around.  It kind of appeared that the authorities had just gotten there a few minutes before Boyd.

post #213 of 358

It was dark when Boyd walked in.

post #214 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil spurn View Post

I'm certain they will.  You don't go out of your way to create a character named "Jackie Nevada", a gorgeous, barely-jailbait card shark, and then only have her show up once.

 

Well, either that, or they just liked the idea of giving Leonard the co-writing credit by cribbing from "Raylan."

 

But seriously, with only four episodes left this season, and a fair amount of plot still to play out, I'd be surprised to see her back; maybe next season (though she'd be second on my list behind Carla).

post #215 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

It was dark when Boyd walked in.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why this seems ambiguous: they're waiting in the dark for Boyd (vehicles presumably hidden), and the lights come on for Boyd in both respects: as he's being cuffed, he ruefully shakes his head as he says "Drew Peterson," finally getting it.

 

Other bits from last night:

 

Art's tantrum wasn't the wry semi-indulgence we're used to from him-- his genuine anger (even calling Tim on his sarcasm) helped to emphasize the stakes in Raylan's shit.

 

Raylan beating on the helpless Hunter almost rendered Hunter's last line redundant: this was Arlo's legacy writ large in a way that's usually under the surface.

 

Tim not running Colt in for assaulting Cassie (which he presumably could have easily done, Boyd or no Boyd) is a perfect Raylan move: not only does Tim want to wait till Colt's eyes are clear, but he has no intention of doing anything as trivial as arresting or booking him: in Tim's eyes, Colt's already dead.

 

While Bob's role as exposition-dump treads on the obvious, Oswalt has brought a real sense of the character's desperate inferiority complex: maybe his best moment in the series so far is the way he starts back toward the door not because he's suddenly worked up his courage, but because he finally came up with the line he wished he had used in the first place.

post #216 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post

 

Tim not running Colt in for assaulting Cassie (which he presumably could have easily done, Boyd or no Boyd) is a perfect Raylan move: not only does Tim want to wait till Colt's eyes are clear, but he has no intention of doing anything as trivial as arresting or booking him: in Tim's eyes, Colt's already dead.

 

Yeah, there may have been some truth to his wanting to take the guy down sober, but my impression was that the main consideration was that he was looking for a permanent solution that being flanked by Boyd and Cassie put a crimp in. 

 

I'd put even money on Tim and Cassie shacking up by the end of the season.

post #217 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

It was dark when Boyd walked in.

 

I must be remembering it wrong because of Raylan looking through Shelby's mail.

post #218 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeb View Post

 

Tim not running Colt in for assaulting Cassie (which he presumably could have easily done, Boyd or no Boyd) is a perfect Raylan move: not only does Tim want to wait till Colt's eyes are clear, but he has no intention of doing anything as trivial as arresting or booking him: in Tim's eyes, Colt's already dead.

 

 

Tim can't arrest Colt for assault.  He'd have to call the sheriff.  But You have an answer as to why he didn't-He wants to go Raylan Givens on Colt.

post #219 of 358

I'm pretty sure a marshall can arrest someone he sees assaulting a woman who then pulls a gun on him.  At the very least he can detain him while he calls whoever.  But obviously that's not what Tim has in mind.

post #220 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post

It was dark when Boyd walked in.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post

 

I must be remembering it wrong because of Raylan looking through Shelby's mail.

 

Yeah, I just watched it. Room is dark when Boyd comes in. Someone switches on a lamp, and they cuff him as Raylan is flipping through the mail. Then Boyd puts Drew=Shelby together.

post #221 of 358
n/m
post #222 of 358

I think Boyd was grasping at straws.  It never would have led to Drew.

post #223 of 358

Ok, guys I need your help on how did Tim know Colt shot his friend?  First off the sound went out at for me during the bit where Tim is talking to the local police so it could of been something there.  But how come Tim knows its Colt while the locals obviously don't know anything.

post #224 of 358

Isn't it because Tim met Colt in the woods while they were both waiting for Raylan/Boyd, respectively, to return from the mountain people, so from that point on, Colt was known to be Boyd's creature. Then later, Tim goes to pick up his old army buddy friend at an addicts' meeting, and...

 

...yeah.  I'm not sure.

post #225 of 358
The friend's last word was "Bagram," which pointed to Colt. Colt told the marshal he was at the VA for Bagram lung.
post #226 of 358

Loved the bit about Tim wanting Colt to be of sound mind when he takes him down. I also love that the preacher girl turned out not to be villainous at all, that was a pretty good misdirect to start off the season.

 

The show is doing such a good job at expanding it's world that it will be seasons before it begins to feel stale.

post #227 of 358

Anyone notice that this episode was co-written by "Taylor Elmore and Leonard Chang"? 

 

For a moment I was totally confused and thought it was a weird-ass pseudonym.

post #228 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanburger View Post


The show is doing such a good job at expanding it's world that it will be seasons before it begins to feel stale.

 

I may be wrong, but hasn't Yost suggested that they're targeting a total of six seasons and calling it quits?

post #229 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcr39 View Post

The friend's last word was "Bagram," which pointed to Colt. Colt told the marshal he was at the VA for Bagram lung.

 

Thanks, though I do have to say I guess Tim knows the "economy of characters rule" plus which parts of a conversation to remember.  Also considering we saw Tim's friend get shot in the head how does he have last words.  Yes, I know it posible to survive quite a while if not outright survive, just saying it looked like he was instantly killed last week.


Edited by DerekT - 3/8/13 at 7:31am
post #230 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerekT View Post

 

Thanks, though I do have to say I guess Tim knows the "economy of characters rule" plus which parts of a conversation to remember.  Also considering we saw Tim's friend get shot in the head how does he have last words.  Yes, I know it posible to survive quite a while if not outright survive, just saying it looked like he was instantly killed last week.

 

It wasn't a last word, he texted it to Tim while hiding in the bathroom.

post #231 of 358

Right, but they seemed to suggest that he was able to crawl after he was shot, right? I don't know. The texting while hiding certainly makes a lot more sense.

post #232 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

 

It wasn't a last word, he texted it to Tim while hiding in the bathroom.

Ahh, ok thanks I'm sorry I missed it.

post #233 of 358

Great start.

post #234 of 358

Holy shit, Ellen May.

post #235 of 358

LIMEHOUSE!

post #236 of 358

'Well that escalated quickly.'

post #237 of 358

Does this all seem rushed and sudden and sort of weird to anyone else?

post #238 of 358
Yeah, but I love the idea that Ava has to face Ellen May knowing she wasn't a threat, throwing her decisions into stark relief. And Boyd had to "burn his past" to establish his future. In both cases, the honor among thieves element was revealed to be bullshit.

Narratively, a bit of a mess. Why 1) the fuck did Boyd trust the drop off of Drew to Colby and 2) did Colby walk away from the pickup, and 3) didn't Nicky shoot the witness before escaping from the SUVs in his HELICOPTER?

But the characterization was great.
post #239 of 358

Yeah, handing Drew over to Colby seemed weird to me too. I get the whole "redemption" angle, but it's not like Boyd would ever trust him that much, especially given just how fucked up he'd been recently. 

I liked it as a "set the stage" episode and the Limehouse scenes were great. Looking forward to next week. Looks killer. 

post #240 of 358
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

Does this all seem rushed and sudden and sort of weird to anyone else?

 

We've been idling along for the first 7-8 episodes of this season, it's about time they stepped on the gas pedal a bit. I can only hope they keep the momentum for these remaining episodes.

 

-The banter at the beginning between Raylan and Boyd regarding Arlo was great.

 

 

-Art is the fucking Man! They should spin off his retirement into a new show.

Quote:

"First thing we are gonna do is we are going to acknowledge that this guy is awesome!"

 

"What?"

 

"He shoots Theo Tonin, fakes his own death in a spectacular fashion, pushes a guy out of an air plane WHILE he is flying it, parachutes into Harlan county with enough coke and cash to jump start the economy of a small country.  And then he has the BALLS to get a job in law enforcement, not once but two times.  He spends a couple of days riding around with you while you're looking for him.  And now he's run off with a hooker that's half his age.  That's some bad ass shit."

 

"That's pretty bad ass"

post #241 of 358

THUD REVIEW: JUSTIFIED 4.10 -- "GET DREW"

 

An excerpt:

 

And so on a lesser series, I think I’d be seriously questioning the effectiveness of the entire Drew Thompson arc. But not on this show. Why? I’ll tell you why. Because of the moment when Art walks up and says about Drew, “First thing we’re going to do is we’re going to acknowledge that this guy is awesome.” And then, after he gets done listing the many reasons why Drew should be admired — wrapping it up with the fact that he’s run off with a hooker half his age — he punctuates it with, “That’s some badass shit.”

 

Raylan, standing nearby, can only agree. “It’s pretty badass,” he says.

 

In that one little scene, the show acknowledges the preposterousness of the Drew/Shelby twist, turns it into a great joke and reminds us how fucking entertaining these characters can be when they’re doing nothing more but standing around talking to each other. So it ends up not mattering if everyone’s motivations for catching Drew have been soft, or if we’re not sure why it’s so important that Drew is caught, because watching the chase has been so much goddamn fun.

 

EDIT: Ha! I see VTRan already posted Art's speech in whole. But it was indeed incredible.

post #242 of 358

I'd assume Boyd left the drop-off to Colt just in case Augustine had ideas about double-crossing him.

 

As for Colt leaving... the helicopter was there, why stick around?

 

As for Augustine not shooting Drew... he wasn't actually guilty of a crime at that point. And at that distance, hitting him with (presumably) a pistol from a moving helicopter... well, good luck with that.

 

The only serious logistical blunder this episode came from Badass Drew. Simultaneously trusting and underestimating Limehouse... sadly, that's a very Elsworth thing to do.

 

Oh, and so, umm, Wynn Duffy is gay? Well, how about that. But he watches women's tennis!?!

post #243 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
Oh, and so, umm, Wynn Duffy is gay? Well, how about that.

 

Aaaaaaand if that's the case then I somehow totally missed the implication last night. Thought that guy was just there in a lackey/bodyguard capacity. It didn't look like they were sleeping in the same bed, though the other guy was wearing a robe in the one scene. Hmm ...

post #244 of 358

First thing we are gonna do is we are going to acknowledge that Art's rundown of the situation was awesome!  Also loved the exchange about how Raylan drives all the way to Harlan every couple of days.

 

My only complaint about this episode is that Limehouse felt off to me. I was super-excited to see his name pop up in the opening credits, but it almost seemed to be a different less subtle/nuanced character than we had last year. Almost a parody.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
Oh, and so, umm, Wynn Duffy is gay? Well, how about that.

 

Aaaaaaand if that's the case then I somehow totally missed the implication last night. Thought that guy was just there in a lackey/bodyguard capacity. It didn't look like they were sleeping in the same bed, though the other guy was wearing a robe in the one scene. Hmm ...

 

 

I don't remember what exactly it was(whether it was in the dialogue or not), but I do remember thinking, "Are they implying that he's gay?" Might've just been the presence of a robed lackey.

post #245 of 358

Yost himself muddies the waters a little on the "Is Wynn gay?" issue:

 

 

 

Quote:
Those are the little things that we honestly get a huge kick out of in the room. When Andron and VJ came up with that, we all just laughed. We just thought it was funny. And then let’s give Duffy a sleep mask. (Laughs) I think when they shot the first take of it, Mike was not wearing the robe, he was just shirtless. It was like, “Okay, we kinda think that Duffy is gay, but we don’t know. There’s nothing wrong with it, but let’s just make it more mysterious.” And him in a robe is funnier. We never lose sight of the fact that we want to be a funny show.

 

Not a big deal, but making Duffy gay at this point, after his hilariously leering comment about watching women's tennis in the Season Three premiere, is about the same as giving Rachel a husband out of nowhere as they did earlier in Season Four. 

 

I just took it as Wynn was in his own bed and Mike was coming from wherever else he was sleeping in the RV.

 

I know it'll never happen, but I'd love to see Abby Miller get an Emmy nod for the work she's been doing this season. She's always been adorable, and Ellen May's long been one of my favorite supporting characters, but Miller has really risen up to the better writing they've given her this year.

 

The preview for next week's episode looks like it's got a $90 million budget.


Edited by John Bierly - 3/13/13 at 8:29am
post #246 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

THUD REVIEW: JUSTIFIED 4.10 -- "GET DREW"

 

 

I never was under the impression that Shelby ordered the hit on Arlo.  That all seemed to come directly from Hunter in a misguided attempt to keep Shelby/Drew's secret.  Arlo was perfectly safe until Raylan came in and tried to squeeze Hunter and implied that another prisoner was on the verge of revealing Drew's identity and that the deal to go to a country club prison would go to whoever talked first.

 

It was all BS, of course, as Arlo would have never given Raylan anything but Hunter immediately figured out who the other person was.  I think that's why Hunter apologized to Shelby in the back of Raylan's car.

post #247 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post

I never was under the impression that Shelby ordered the hit on Arlo.  That all seemed to come directly from Hunter in a misguided attempt to keep Shelby/Drew's secret.  Arlo was perfectly safe until Raylan came in and tried to squeeze Hunter and implied that another prisoner was on the verge of revealing Drew's identity and that the deal to go to a country club prison would go to whoever talked first.

 

It was all BS, of course, as Arlo would have never given Raylan anything but Hunter immediately figured out who the other person was.  I think that's why Hunter apologized to Shelby in the back of Raylan's car.

 

Ah, that does all make sense and would better fit with the Drew/Shelby we know. Although it would also bolster my argument that the whole Drew Thompson storyline is so impersonal.

post #248 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by zak chase View Post

 

Ah, that does all make sense and would better fit with the Drew/Shelby we know. Although it would also bolster my argument that the whole Drew Thompson storyline is so impersonal.

 

It seems that's a direct result of the fact that they didn't have the season plotted out in advance.  According to Yost they didn't even know that Drew was Shelby until after writing episode 5 or so.  They've handled it nicely but I agree that it is impersonal.  It's essentially a vehicle to get people we enjoy to say and do cool things.  I genuinely love the idea of them doing a major case for the entire season instead of a main antagonist but I think it would have been more powerful if they'd bothered plotting out the major beats in advance.

post #249 of 358
Quote:
Originally Posted by A-Pathetic View Post

 

It seems that's a direct result of the fact that they didn't have the season plotted out in advance.  According to Yost they didn't even know that Drew was Shelby until after writing episode 5 or so.  They've handled it nicely but I agree that it is impersonal.  It's essentially a vehicle to get people we enjoy to say and do cool things.  I genuinely love the idea of them doing a major case for the entire season instead of a main antagonist but I think it would have been more powerful if they'd bothered plotting out the major beats in advance.

 

Agreed. Certain shows and certain storylines you can get away with making it up as you go along, but a season-long mystery is tough to pull off without knowing upfront exactly where you're going.

 

In light of your argument, A-pathetic, I actually went back into my review and slightly adjusted the language in that section. I appreciate the discussion, good sir.

post #250 of 358

Can anybody please tell me why the playstation store doesn't have the last two episode for sale available? Is anyone else having this problem?

 

Last episode I saw was episode 7.
 

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