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Little things that would make a movie better - Page 3

post #101 of 140

Could I please have the power to make the following changes?

 

I can live with Keanu being Constantine because he wasn't terrible and everyone else was great. I can live with it being in L.A. and the silly illegal immigrant metaphor. I can live with Chas as an angel at the end. WHAT I CAN'T LIVE WITH IS KEANU POPPING GUM AT THE END INSTEAD OF LIGHTING UP A SMOKE.

 

Please kill the epilogue at the end of Matchstick Men. The book ended dark, the movie should have too.
 

They really should have left the last line of the Minority Report script where it says there were 75 murders or something the following year.

 

Savages sticks with its first ending like the much better book.

post #102 of 140

This might be pushing the bounds of "little things," but the Episode VII thread got me thinking, and while it wouldn't solve all the movie's problems (not even close), I think Episode I would be a better film if Anakin was a teenager. Setting aside the "kid actors, argh!" aspect, I really can't think of any particular aspect of the film that would be hurt by pushing Anakin's age forward, and I think it would improve the following key areas:

 

- Padme and Anakin going in the course of two movies from adventures in babysitting to the bone zone.

 

- A young child engaging in a sport that consists in large part of vehicular manslaughter, not just of his own volition but at the behest of his mother and two strange man she's entrusted his care to

 

- Allows him to (one would think) be a more believable participant in the final space battle, with the end result of not making Luke's similar run on the Deathstar look like something an 8 year old could have done by accident.

 

I suppose one could argue that the point of having such a young protagonist is to appeal to children of a similar age, but I think plenty of other popular blockbusters (including the original trilogy) have shown that kids can get invested in an adventure featuring adults or teenagers without needing an age-appropriate stand in protagonist. And again, I don't think this would make this a good film by any stretch, as Hayden was clear proof that older = better delivery, and garbage dialog is garbage dialog. It would just make it better, in my estimation.

post #103 of 140

Somewhere on the Phantom Menace DVD supplementals there's a bizarre clip of George arguing with himself about Anakin's age.  

He mentions that everyone kept asking him why Anakin had to be so young and then frustratingly says he had no choice because that was the story.

 

You know, the story that came from him.

post #104 of 140
Thread Starter 

I could improve Jack Reacher with six inches... added to Tom Cruise's height.
 

post #105 of 140

I know we have had already had The Avengers, and as much I like it, it gets my vote for worst opening scene of the year.

 

Those first twenty minutes are awful. There's no urgency. No sense that something terrible is happening apart from shots of nameless extras running around. The score is terrible.

 

Jackson just casually strolls around spouting dialogue that he doesn't really know how to deliver. I know the leisurely pace is to make him appear cool but it just makes Fury look disinterested.

 

The film manages to overcome it but that scene is just so lifeless. Inject a bit of excitement.

 

And cast Josh Brolin as Nick Fury. No scratch that... Avery Brooks!!!

post #106 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post

I think Episode I would be a better film if Anakin was a teenager.

 

I've been saying this for years.

It would fit in perfectly with the Yoda/Empire dialogue of "he's too old to begin training". It would also play to the idea that if you don't start the Jedi training at a real young age, the possibility of slipping over the 'Dark Side' increases exponentially as the candidate gets older.

 

Now that Disney owns this, maybe we can convince them to CGI-out the little kid and 'fix' the film. (if that's even possible)

post #107 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post

 

I've been saying this for years.

It would fit in perfectly with the Yoda/Empire dialogue of "he's too old to begin training". It would also play to the idea that if you don't start the Jedi training at a real young age, the possibility of slipping over the 'Dark Side' increases exponentially as the candidate gets older.

 

Now that Disney owns this, maybe we can convince them to CGI-out the little kid and 'fix' the film. (if that's even possible)

 

They're going to remake the prequels at some point, probably in about twenty years. And then they'll probably remake the rest.

post #108 of 140

Enchanted was pretty good. Amy Adams was adorable and charming and James Marsden was hilarious, but casting Broadway star Idina Menzel in your musical and not giving her a song? FAIL.

post #109 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanure View Post

Somewhere on the Phantom Menace DVD supplementals there's a bizarre clip of George arguing with himself about Anakin's age.  

He mentions that everyone kept asking him why Anakin had to be so young and then frustratingly says he had no choice because that was the story.

 

You know, the story that came from him.

 

I'm assuming that he already had McGregor cast by that point. Committing to a 20-something Obi-Wan dictates how much further in the past the story is set, and how much younger Anakin would have to be.

 

(Warning: Approaching Nerd Rabbithole)

 

But I'm a guy who never accepted the whole 'changed his name from Anakin when he turned evil' thing to start with. Most everything irreparably wrong with the prequels stems from stuff that wasn't properly thought out in Return of the Jedi. Go back and give us a Jedi who was always named Darth Vader like Old Ben said in the first film, please and thank you.

post #110 of 140

There's nothing in the OT that dictates that Anakin has to be considerably younger than Obi-wan.

 

There's also nothing in the prequels that dictates that Obi-wan has to be an apprentice in TPM.  It has little to no bearing on the story, except to marginalize the hero of the trilogy in comparison to the more dynamic character of Qui-Gonn.

post #111 of 140

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a student of mine before he turned to evil." It stands to reason that Obi-wan would have at least some seniority. And again, casting McGregor would have limited the time period to the actor's age range, though I'm not sure how young he's supposed to be in TPM and agree with you and Mister Plinkett that there was no reason to make him an apprentice himself.

 

But on top of all that, I would advance that there's nothing in the OT (except the chapter numbering) that dictates the necessity for a prequel trilogy at all.

post #112 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

But on top of all that, I would advance that there's nothing in the OT (except the chapter numbering) that dictates the necessity for a prequel trilogy at all.

Except the phrase "Clone Wars" and they weren't even in the films!

post #113 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammerhead View Post

"A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a student of mine before he turned to evil." It stands to reason that Obi-wan would have at least some seniority. And again, casting McGregor would have limited the time period to the actor's age range, though I'm not sure how young he's supposed to be in TPM and agree with you and Mister Plinkett that there was no reason to make him an apprentice himself.

 

But on top of all that, I would advance that there's nothing in the OT (except the chapter numbering) that dictates the necessity for a prequel trilogy at all.

 

Well, a prequel is never strictly necessary.  By definition, it's backstory that the originals didn't require to be filled in completely.  But if you're going to make it, that description locks you in to a couple of story elements.  Vader has to be a relatively young jedi, Obi-wan has to be his teacher, and he has to turn evil.  And of course, you left off the previous line, where he says that when he met his father, he was already an accomplished star pilot.  Which precludes his being a freaking 9 year old much more than describing him as a "student" suggests a child.

 

Man, I never gave a huge amount of thought to this, but now that I do what a terrible decision on every level.  It detracts from the story at every turn and adds nothing.  It makes the heroes look insane for taking a child on a siege of an occupied palace (only to abandon him in enemy territory - the fuck?).  It makes the teenage heroine look creepy for flirting with a pre-pubescent.  And probably worst of all, it takes the wind out of the entire climax by turning a crucial portion of it into a Pink Panther routine.

 

For Christ's sake, they make him a child and still try to play up the "he's too old to train" angle!  What the hell?

post #114 of 140

With the caveat that I haven't seen the film in a while, so this may just be faulty memory:

 

In The Watchmen comic, Manhattan leaves Veidt with the line about "nothing ever ends," giving the impression that Veidt may have realized his plan, in the long run, might have been nothing but a stop-gap at best (something support by our last look at Veidt). In the movie, I believe the line is transferred to a later scene between Night-Owl and Silk Specter, which kills a lot of the omph and makes Veidt come off as more of a straight megalomaniac. The flamethrower fucking and Nite-Owl murdering someone are the more glaring problems caused by Snyder tinkering, but this one carried the most weight for me personally and seemed the most arbitrary. To be fair though, I do think some of the changes (like the revision of Veidt's plan) were sound.

post #115 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

 

Well, a prequel is never strictly necessary.  By definition, it's backstory that the originals didn't require to be filled in completely.  But if you're going to make it, that description locks you in to a couple of story elements. 

 

Man, I never gave a huge amount of thought to this, but now that I do what a terrible decision on every level.  It detracts from the story at every turn and adds nothing.

 

This should be the golden rule on any prequel. My gold standard for this is Spartacus: Gods of the Arena. It gave us backstory that only broadened the world, introduced places for future stories to go, and made the loss of a main character in a previous film only more poignant. (Yes, Battiatus is a prick, but by Jupiter's Cock, I would have watched more.)

post #116 of 140

Decided to finally contribute some to this thread with some superhero flicks:

 

X-Men: First Class-I've noted this before, but the denoument after the big showdown with Shaw moves waaaaaayyyy too fast. Unless they plan to have McAvoy and Fassbender's teams uneasily work together in Days of Future Past, the Xavier/Lensherr break really needed another movie to play out. The character motivations are solid, but too damn rushed (especially with Mystique).

 

Also, the only black X-man dies (or appears to), and the lone Hispanic switches to the evil team. That's KIND OF AWKWARD. Especially since they're barely given anything in the way of personality or things to do.

 

Thor-Put the deleted/extended Asgard material back in. It gives Rene Russo more screentime, and extra motivation to Loki's character.

 

Also, please give Kat Dennings a less obviously frumpy wardrobe in the sequel.

 

The Avengers-I don't need the rest of it, but Cap walking alone in New York and the diner scene would be nice to have back in the movie.

 

Captain America-Make Bucky's death less of an obvious sequel hook. Yes, *I* know that you had Winter Soldier plans in mind, but it'd be nice if you could at least PRETEND he was actually dead. Especially since the aftermath of Cap attempting to grieve is such a good scene.

post #117 of 140

Batman Begins

 

A film with a number of flaws, it would've been improved had Nolan seen fit to tell Tom Wilkinson to tone down the "Edward G. Robinson". Wilkinson is distractingly maudlin.

post #118 of 140

See, I don't know, I kind of love Wilkinson in that mode, especially in the restaurant scene where the Goyer dialogue is awesomely on-the-nose. And his over-the-top gangster does serve as an interesting contrast to the more low-key villainy of Crane and the League of Shadows (in terms of performance, that is).

post #119 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splatoon View Post

This might be pushing the bounds of "little things," but the Episode VII thread got me thinking, and while it wouldn't solve all the movie's problems (not even close), I think Episode I would be a better film if Anakin was a teenager. Setting aside the "kid actors, argh!" aspect, I really can't think of any particular aspect of the film that would be hurt by pushing Anakin's age forward, and I think it would improve the following key areas:

 

- Padme and Anakin going in the course of two movies from adventures in babysitting to the bone zone.

 

- A young child engaging in a sport that consists in large part of vehicular manslaughter, not just of his own volition but at the behest of his mother and two strange man she's entrusted his care to

 

- Allows him to (one would think) be a more believable participant in the final space battle, with the end result of not making Luke's similar run on the Deathstar look like something an 8 year old could have done by accident.

 

I suppose one could argue that the point of having such a young protagonist is to appeal to children of a similar age, but I think plenty of other popular blockbusters (including the original trilogy) have shown that kids can get invested in an adventure featuring adults or teenagers without needing an age-appropriate stand in protagonist. And again, I don't think this would make this a good film by any stretch, as Hayden was clear proof that older = better delivery, and garbage dialog is garbage dialog. It would just make it better, in my estimation.

 

In my pre-prequel imagination of the prequels (80s/early 90s), I always saw Anakin as a teenager, then a little older in the next two.  It was obvious and made sense.  When I first heard that Lucas decided to make him an 8 year old, it was the first hint that something was going horribly wrong...

post #120 of 140
Thread Starter 

"And you always FEAHHR... what you don't understand!"

 

It's the closest thing Batman Begins has to Bane-voice, c'mon!

post #121 of 140

And if  you're like me, "Bane-voice" was never a problem. Wilkinson's having fun, Nolan is letting him, and the dialogue is pretty grandiose anyway. I say let it be.

post #122 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

And if  you're like me, "Bane-voice" was never a problem. Wilkinson's having fun, Nolan is letting him, and the dialogue is pretty grandiose anyway. I say let it be.

That's my point, I like Bane-voice. Now Rachel-Dawes-voice, on the other hand...

post #123 of 140

Ah, gotcha. The problem with Dawes is casting. If they had Gyllenhall from the beginning (I still don't know WHY they didn't), half the complaints would've been moot because Gyllenhall can project more legitimate authority with one finger than Holmes can with her whole body.

post #124 of 140

I've been thinking that Daniel Craig would have been a great Anakin. He could bring across the different aspects of Anakin pretty well pilot, powerful jedi and eventual Dark Lord. Still young but old enough to match up with the original old man we see at the end of Return of the Jedi.

 

I also think it would be good if Padme could have been a Jedi.

 

Also, have some sort of Clone Wars battle on Alderaan.

post #125 of 140

DARK KNIGHT RISES

Instead of Bruce being a shut in recluse Howard Hughes type for 8 years, would it have been better if he was a massive public alcoholic man-slut embarrassment?  That way his come back wouldn't have been so tied (ridiculously similar) to the Batman's.   

 

That's just 1 of about 10 little (HUGE) changes I would make to that wonderful train wreck. 

post #126 of 140
My main beef with the Tintin movie is that the character of Tintin was introduced poorly. The problem was that I and I think many Americans are unfamiliar with the character and therefore when a young boy journalist can suddenly fight well and do a bunch of stunts the character looses believability because we had very little reference to what he is capable of.

It could have been such an easy fix too, all Spielberg needed to do was take a page out of Raiders of the Lost Arc. In that film the audience isn't introduced to Indiana Jones as college professor on archeology. We first see him in his element as a badass knowledgeable adventurer who can think on his feet and then after the beginning action sequence we then see him as a Professor. So in essence he is in our eyes an adventurer first and a professor second not the other way around.

TintIn should have started with TinTin being extremely capable quick on his feet character being put through his pases at the climax of his previous adventure and then after it is all over we find out that he is a boy journalist.
post #127 of 140

The Aviator, a biopic of Howard Hughes, was a great movie that would have been even better if they had included his greatest contribution to history when he engineered a jet-pack for the U.S. Government.
 

post #128 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron Hughes View Post

The Aviator, a biopic of Howard Hughes, was a great movie that would have been even better if they had included his greatest contribution to history when he engineered a jet-pack for the U.S. Government.
 

 

Complete with animated warning movie to show what happens if the Nazis get their hands on it!

post #129 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

 

Complete with animated warning movie to show what happens if the Nazis get their hands on it!


I'll never understand why Scorcese left it out.

post #130 of 140

Watched The Untouchables for the first time in years with my sister a few days ago, and man I'd forgotten how mediocre that soundtrack was. I didn't find it as distractingly bad as she did (still liked the film though), but it's just so overbearing and on the nose that it makes an already somewhat shallow film seem borderline cartoonish at times. The music is supposed to add depth and heighten the mood, not act as form of de facto emotional subtitles, and while there's a few moments where the big, bold themes work, I think a little restraint could have made a good film even better.

post #131 of 140

1993's The Shadow had that problem. In spades.

But that's what happens when you hire a nitwit named Jellybean Benitez to supervise your soundtrack.

post #132 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim K View Post



TintIn should have started with TinTin being extremely capable quick on his feet character being put through his pases at the climax of his previous adventure and then after it is all over we find out that he is a boy journalist.

You mean like the entire opening credits sequence was?

post #133 of 140
Thread Starter 
Perhaps this is turning this into a bad taste thread, but The Third Man would've been so much better without "a zither leaving me a dither." I get it, soundtrack dissonance, bad things are happening and circus music is playing, but that only has to be one scene. You don't play Stuck In The Middle With You for fifty minutes during Reservoir Dogs.
post #134 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by avian View Post

Perhaps this is turning this into a bad taste thread, but The Third Man would've been so much better without "a zither leaving me a dither." I get it, soundtrack dissonance, bad things are happening and circus music is playing, but that only has to be one scene. You don't play Stuck In The Middle With You for fifty minutes during Reservoir Dogs.

 

post #135 of 140

Heh. I agree, the zither music is over the top in The Third Man.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post

 And have Bale's insistence that the Joker's wrong about people be a little more desperate, like he really needs to believe that it's true, but doesn't know.

 

I thought that was exactly what he was doing. He doesn't know that the Joker is wrong, but he must behave as if he is. Doing any more to underline that point would undermine amount to Batman letting his own doubts get in the way of his actions.

 

As for me, I love Spider-Man 2, but I felt there might have been some way to get Doc Ock to personally want Spider-Man dead or personally oppose him. They're basically matched up in round a bout ways, such as Ock robbing the bank that Parker is at, and then attacking Spider-Man and risking his own life fighting him on top of a skyscraper and on a train just to get the tridium from Harry.

 

It all works regardless and I think it's great, and it might have been easy to mess up Ock personally wanting to kill Spider-Man. But the PS2 video game, as crappy as the storytelling was in it, staged the whole perpetual energy device going wrong in such a way that Doc Ock blamed Spider-Man for his wife's death. To me, that little bit of crystallization of Ock's hatred of Spider-Man would have worked better than having Ock merely be a mad scientist who basically has run ins with Spider-Man.

post #136 of 140

Danny DeVito.

post #137 of 140

Half of Das Boot's score is great and understated, and then the other half is an overbearing invasion of 80s synth onto scenes that absolutely worked without it.

 

post #138 of 140
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stunt poop View Post

Heh. I agree, the zither music is over the top in The Third Man.


I thought that was exactly what he was doing. He doesn't know that the Joker is wrong, but he must behave as if he is. Doing any more to underline that point would undermine amount to Batman letting his own doubts get in the way of his actions.

As for me, I love Spider-Man 2, but I felt there might have been some way to get Doc Ock to personally want Spider-Man dead or personally oppose him. They're basically matched up in round a bout ways, such as Ock robbing the bank that Parker is at, and then attacking Spider-Man and risking his own life fighting him on top of a skyscraper and on a train just to get the tridium from Harry.

It all works regardless and I think it's great, and it might have been easy to mess up Ock personally wanting to kill Spider-Man. But the PS2 video game, as crappy as the storytelling was in it, staged the whole perpetual energy device going wrong in such a way that Doc Ock blamed Spider-Man for his wife's death. To me, that little bit of crystallization of Ock's hatred of Spider-Man would have worked better than having Ock merely be a mad scientist who basically has run ins with Spider-Man.

That'd make both Harry Osborn and Doc Ock wanting Spidey dead for personal reasons, which is redundant. As is, the movie's a great balancing act--Harry's arc drives Ock's arc drives Peter's arc.
post #139 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by avian View Post


That'd make both Harry Osborn and Doc Ock wanting Spidey dead for personal reasons, which is redundant. As is, the movie's a great balancing act--Harry's arc drives Ock's arc drives Peter's arc.


It might not have worked, but I don't think it would be redundant. Harry coming up with another reason for wanting Spider-Man dead (like, say, if he blamed Spider-Man for the perpetual energy machine breaking) would be redundant.

 

I still think there's a way a smart story teller like Raimi and writer Sargent could have worked it in.

post #140 of 140
Thread Starter 
I gotta think John Carter would've been better with Sab Than as the Big Guy (as in, does bad shit) and Matai Shang as his mysterious adviser (as in, next to no lines). Save all the White Martian stuff for the sequel. That way, the movie would end with JC getting a big win over his arch-nemesis instead of "Rats, he got away! And banished me for ten years! And probably some other stuff!" The villain all but entirely defeating the hero after being momentarily inconvenienced not being the best way to end a rollicking space adventure.
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