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post #151 of 2249

I feel Boehner might be out soon as the speaker. If he cant get his caucus to agree to a giant joke of a "plan" than what rationale should he have for staying in his position. Although the danger of that is if he steps down than Cantor steps in and is infinitely worse. Boy what a disaster this is. Although if he do go over the cliff it might be the best thing, honestly.

post #152 of 2249
The way I see it, McConnell and Reid work out a grand deal in the Senate. They stepped up in 2011 during the debt limit fiasco after Boehner shit his bed the first go round. Then it passes the house. Pelosi cajoles all the dems to vote and 50 or so GOPers join in, isolating the wing nuts. President signs it. Much rejoicing. Boehner gets taken out in a manner worthy of Julius Caesar. Cantor becomes Speaker and shocks everyone at how successful he is (he is nothing if not shrewd). The GOP retains the House in 2014.

I also hear Paul Ryan may want Speakership... But I frankly don't think he has the stones to pull it off
post #153 of 2249

Wonkette gives a depressing rundown of why the GOP wouldn't vote on 'Plan B'

 

http://wonkette.com/494047/your-big-fat-wonkette-guide-to-the-plan-b-fiscal-cliff-nonsense-tornado

 

Spoiler: It hurt the very wealthy too much, and the poors not enough.

post #154 of 2249

Put the Republicans in a giant cage and let them eat each other all they want. Boehner and the other higher ups created the  fanaticism in their party and they deserve all the shit they've brought on themselves. The shitty part is they are going to take everyone else down with them. Too bad we can't quarantine them somehow. 
 

post #155 of 2249

I don't know what more to saw about the GOP they are truly a horror show i feel they will lose badly on the fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling and gun control. Their positions are totally backwards and utterly extreme. They need to lose very badly in 2014 and learn their ways are done and to quote Scalia "DEAD, DEAD, DEAD!" and stay in the political wilderness until they grow the fuck up! Honestly the modern GOP cannot survive this. I say try to ostracize the Tea Party, don't pander to the religious fundamentalists and take up more fiscally responsible position and try to win back minorities and compete in the cities because if they don't they truly will be dead, not now but within 10 years? Very possible.

post #156 of 2249
I like the irony that they aborted their own bill.
post #157 of 2249
A bill called Plan B. You can't make this shit up. I thought it would be hard to top McConnell filibustering his own bill a few weeks back, but Boehner and Cantor just out did him.
post #158 of 2249
I feel that the GOP has just kissed control of the house come 2014 , 2016 at the worst/best considering your pout of view. I can't see the Republicans doing anything positive after this and the American has gotten wise to their bs. So this looks bad for them. Don't see them recovering from this very soon it's too much of a political self inflected wound. I mean look at the last month voting against a UN treaty based off American law, torpedoing the fiscal cliff negotiations for the utter fail of plan b and trying to threaten not increasing the debt ceiling again, oh and who knows what will happen if the dems go for a fight over gun control! They are out of control and for the health of the nation they need to lose power sooner than later.
post #159 of 2249

Well there is no doubt the GOP have opened themselves up to a gutting, but the question is whether the Democrats have the balls to pick up the knife and start carving. I'd love to see a credible third party emerge for the mid-terms and combine with the Dems to run the Republicans out of Washington. And this is from a guy who cast his first vote for Ronald Reagan.

post #160 of 2249

Yeah very true that's the only thing preventing me from saying they are dead as a political party is the fact the Dems seem to be all willing to be steamrolled by the GOP. There needs to be a real Progressive to punch both parties in the face, because the Democratic Party has not done their job since like LBJ.

post #161 of 2249
Chris Hayes, making an appearance on Rachel Maddow's show, framed all of this in an interesting way; the Republicans in this outgoing Congress may have inadvertently saved Medicare and Social Security from Obama's desire to cut them. The game of good cop/bad cop in Washington is a bizarre and multifaceted thing.
post #162 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

Chris Hayes, making an appearance on Rachel Maddow's show, framed all of this in an interesting way; the Republicans in this outgoing Congress may have inadvertently saved Medicare and Social Security from Obama's desire to cut them. The game of good cop/bad cop in Washington is a bizarre and multifaceted thing.

 

 

um.......yay! I guess.........the beltway is sad, disturbing frightening place, like an old Ralph Bakshi animated film.

post #163 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo RJ View Post

Yeah very true that's the only thing preventing me from saying they are dead as a political party is the fact the Dems seem to be all willing to be steamrolled by the GOP. There needs to be a real Progressive to punch both parties in the face, because the Democratic Party has not done their job since like LBJ.

 

Well the Democrats (and many Liberals in general) suffer from terminal smugness which inhibits their effectiveness.

post #164 of 2249
I think it more has to do with the fact Dems are too worried to be middle of the road and scared to be painted as being socialists. They need to get over it, you can't let the Christian Taliban from winning all the time stand up for your beliefs and if not you'll be to blame for the ruin of this country, we know the GOP is insane but what unacceptable is to be in fear of them to fight back. Look at what Obama, Pelosi, and Reid have done since being in government.
post #165 of 2249

The biggest problem the Dems have right now is Gerrymandering, and that may keep the House in GOP hands for longer than people think. Remember, Dems got more votes in the 2012 House elections than the Repubs - 50.5 percent of the vote - but the GOP retained control.

post #166 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

The biggest problem the Dems have right now is Gerrymandering, and that may keep the House in GOP hands for longer than people think. Remember, Dems got more votes in the 2012 House elections than the Repubs - 50.5 percent of the vote - but the GOP retained control.

 

   /\  THIS will be the biggest issue over the next few years.

 

If given the chance (with help from groups like ALEC) the GOP will attempt to gerrymander their way back into congress.

To be clear, the Dems have been guilty of gerrymandering congressional districts in the past as well but the GOP is pursuing it in force now...it's the only way they will be able to retain any semblance of political power.

 

Also shit like this is happening: Pennsylvania GOP Revives Plan To Rig The Electoral College

post #167 of 2249
Yeah I heard about that. Sounds like a just awful idea. If the elections were run like that this year than we'd have President Romney which would be utterly terrifying. I don't think this will happen but that's why it's so important to defeat the republicans and keep them out of congress because they are far too toxic.
post #168 of 2249

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/22/obamas-small-deal-could-lead-to-bigger-tax-increases/

 

 

Quote:

The juiciest passage in the Wall Street Journal’s behind-the-scenes report on the fiscal cliff negotiations comes when House Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) asks President Obama whether he can have the deal he rejected in 2011. “You missed your opportunity on that,” the president replies.

 

Ouch.

 

But the most important insight into the White House’s strategic thinking comes when Boehner says to the president, ”I put $800 billion [in tax revenue] on the table. What do I get for that?” Obama’s response is cold and telling. ”You get nothing,” the president said. “I get that for free.”

Ah snap....

post #169 of 2249
Quote:
 Obama’s response is cold and telling. ”You get nothing,”

 

Must... resist... urge... to... Wonka gif

post #170 of 2249

 

"Obama, ya broke your cherry."

 

post #171 of 2249


Stone fucking cold. I love it. Boehner is going to wish someone would mercy kill him for the Speakership soon if this keeps up. 

post #172 of 2249

I'd be surprised if Boehner suffers from this at all. This is not a sane political climate. These people clap themselves on the back for failure.

post #173 of 2249

Heckuva job, Boehney.

post #174 of 2249

Yeah but "these people" don't like Boehner. He's not a Tea Party guy, and he's seen as weak.
 

post #175 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

Yeah but "these people" don't like Boehner. He's not a Tea Party guy, and he's seen as weak.

 

That's kind of scary because years ago my uncle was screaming how extreme and disgusting the GOP has gotten after the 1994 election now people like Boehner are RINO'S? Jeez shows how insane this country has gotten.

Man what would happen if Gingrich was Speaker now for all the bipartisanship bills he got done with the White House and Democratic side of congress. He'd probably be tared and feathered. See this is what happens when you let the inmates run the asylum. I deplore Boehner to quit and see what happens with Cantor as Speaker. Boy that would be funny ie sad.
post #176 of 2249

I don't think it'll be Cantor. That caucus has too many anti-semites in it to let Cantor take over. I'd guess Ryan, or maybe some idiot loon like Gohmert or Bachman will make a play.

post #177 of 2249
Oh man Gohmert that would be hilarious! Mr. Obama is creating a new Ottoman Empire and guns at every public place that's the ticket! Ha! Wow imagine him trying to make deals with the President? Epic fail. Can't see Bachmann either she almost lost her seat she is political poison.

Agree on Ryan as a possibility as a consolation prize for losing in November and he seems like the only possibility where he might actually get the Tea Partiers in line to get something done since they do like him, a lot. But the thing is anyone you pick they'll be in trouble since being a leader in the GOP seems to be utterly impossible as what's happened in the senate with McConnell has shown.

But really Boehner needs to leave as speaker he can't keep his members in line. I might have been critical of Gingrich, Hastert and Pelosi on the Democratic side, but at least they could control their caucus. Boehner can't and needs to leave for the sake of the country. The other picks like Cantor or Ryan I question if they keep their members in line but with Boehner we already know the answer and it's that he can't and should not be in the speakership roll. I'd say the same thing if this was happening to a Democratic Speaker.
post #178 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturo RJ View Post

Oh man Gohmert that would be hilarious! Mr. Obama is creating a new Ottoman Empire and guns at every public place that's the ticket! Ha! Wow imagine him trying to make deals with the President? Epic fail. Can't see Bachmann either she almost lost her seat she is political poison.
Agree on Ryan as a possibility as a consolation prize for losing in November and he seems like the only possibility where he might actually get the Tea Partiers in line to get something done since they do like him, a lot. But the thing is anyone you pick they'll be in trouble since being a leader in the GOP seems to be utterly impossible as what's happened in the senate with McConnell has shown.
But really Boehner needs to leave as speaker he can't keep his members in line. I might have been critical of Gingrich, Hastert and Pelosi on the Democratic side, but at least they could control their caucus. Boehner can't and needs to leave for the sake of the country. The other picks like Cantor or Ryan I question if they keep their members in line but with Boehner we already know the answer and it's that he can't and should not be in the speakership roll. I'd say the same thing if this was happening to a Democratic Speaker.

 

I'm no fan of Boehner but I'd rather he continue to be speaker as the idea of extreme ideologues like Cantor, Ryan, et al being in charge is even more horrifying.

I sense that Boehner would be willing to compromise but it's all the kookoo elements that are, for lack of a better term, flipping him off.

 

If anything it's the fringe, Norquist-ian teapartiers that need to be voted out and replaced; preferably with people that actually think government can be capable of good things instead of something to be fought against and be dismantled.

post #179 of 2249
I like my villains incompetent and reaching beyond their grasp, more Loki than Ming. I'd therefore love to see Boehner stay.

I'd be curious, though, to see if he cries in an inevitable speech or televised interview after being ousted. It's always been my assumption that the crying is something he has trained himself to do while giving a performance, and that he'd forget to do it if he was sincerely sad or angry.

_
Edited by Reasor - 12/23/12 at 11:00am
post #180 of 2249
Personally yeah is prefer Boehner to stay because I feel eventually he will cave in and try to say he got a lot out of Obama which could be half true.

But really should he personally do it? I mean he has made himself into an utter joke and the most pathetic leader in congress, he has no clout anymore and had his caucus openly rebel against him over even raising taxes by any measureable level.

He's more snake bitten than McConnell which is saying something since McConnel utterly fumbled winning the majority when it should have been easy to do and lost two seats on top of it. Also lets not forget that he almost filibustered a bill he proposed! It's amazing how inept they are. So yes in theory I say let them say but really it's bad to have leaders this horrendous on the GOP side and its hurting this country. I might not like Pelosi, Reid or Hoyer but at least they can govern. The Republicans can't do that and are starting to look more and more like clowns which I feel is bad for our nation. I'd prefer beating them at their best which I believe the democrats can do.
post #181 of 2249

how much of this has to do with Norquist? 

post #182 of 2249

Ironically Norquist signed off on Plan B. It was the even crazier sect like Club for Growth that rebelled. Norquist is a shrewd duck and he sees the writing on the wall; taxes will rise. And he knew that Plan B's passing would strengthen the GOP's leverage to limit the damage. Now that it failed, the likelihood of taxes going up even more has increased substantially. Plan B's failure was striking not because it was engineered by the usual suspects, but because it subverted their wishes. 

post #183 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

Ironically Norquist signed off on Plan B. It was the even crazier sect like Club for Growth that rebelled. Norquist is a shrewd duck and he sees the writing on the wall; taxes will rise. And he knew that Plan B's passing would strengthen the GOP's leverage to limit the damage. Now that it failed, the likelihood of taxes going up even more has increased substantially. Plan B's failure was striking not because it was engineered by the usual suspects, but because it subverted their wishes. 

 

amazing. thanks for the insight. i need to read the news.

post #184 of 2249

I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the Captain's name turned out to be "Charon".

 

Blues Cruise

Steaming past Guantánamo, en route to the Cayman Islands, a boatload of Republicans ponder the plight of a party at sea.

 

<excerpts>

Quote:
It was day five of the National Review magazine’s Post Election Cruise 2012, and the GOP’s recent problems were, mercifully, about 760 nautical miles away. The cruise, featuring the star columnists of William Buckley’s 57-year-old conservative biweekly, had been planned long in advance, and everybody had believed it would be a victory party. An ­e-mail from the magazine’s publisher arrived a few days before we embarked: “Do not despair or fret. At least not next week.”
Quote:

Onboard the Nieuw Amsterdam, no one could follow his advice. “Who sent Obama here to destroy America?” a fiftysomething woman asked me one evening over dinner, as if it were a perfectly reasonable question.

 

Seriously, there is so much delusion in this piece that it borders on parody....thing is, I'm pretty sure it's a slice of how conservatives actually view reality..


Edited by VTRan - 12/25/12 at 2:13pm
post #185 of 2249

They seem to honestly be delusional, magical-thinking entitled shits. Anyone who is not one of them is an "other", out to destroy their precious worldview where everybody loves them and nobody recognizes their utter contempt for the country they profess to love so much.

post #186 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

They seem to honestly be delusional, magical-thinking entitled shits. Anyone who is not one of them is an "NEGRO", out to destroy their precious worldview where everybody loves them and nobody recognizes their utter contempt for the country they profess to love so much.

 

 

Fixed!

post #187 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

 

 

Fixed!

 

To be fair, the GOP is terrified of all minorities, not just black people.

 

But, admittedly, especially black people.

post #188 of 2249
Essentially they are the majority of the cast of Django Unchained.
post #189 of 2249
It sounds like we missed a hell of a party over at FreedomWorks' place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post View Post

Richard K. Armey, the group’s chairman and a former House majority leader, walked into the group’s Capitol Hill offices with his wife, Susan, and an aide holstering a handgun at his waist. The aim was to seize control of the group and expel Armey’s enemies: The gun-wielding assistant escorted FreedomWorks’ top two employees off the premises, while Armey suspended several others who broke down in sobs at the news.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post 
The coup lasted all of six days. By Sept. 10, Armey was gone — with a promise of $8 million — and the five ousted employees were back. The force behind their return was Richard J. Stephenson, a reclusive Illinois millionaire who has exerted increasing control over one of Washington’s most influential conservative grass-roots organizations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post 
Stephenson, the founder of the for-profit Cancer Treatment Centers of America and a director on the FreedomWorks board, agreed to commit $400,000 per year over 20 years in exchange for Armey’s agreement to leave the group.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post View Post

By nearly all accounts, including from those loyal to him, Armey handled his attempted coup badly. Armey says he was stepping in because of ethical breaches by Kibbe and Brandon, accusing them of improperly using FreedomWorks staff resources to produce a book — ironically, named “Hostile Takeover” — for which Kibbe claimed sole credit and was collecting royalties. The use of internal resources for Kibbe’s benefit could jeopardize the group’s nonprofit tax status; the group denies any impropriety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington Post View Post

“It was clear that under Armey’s leadership, the organization as we knew it was going to be driven into the ground,” said one junior employee.

Enter Stephenson, who agreed to the multimillion-dollar financial incentive to push Armey out and install Kibbe back at the helm.

The payments were necessary, several FreedomWorks leaders said, because Armey was threatening to sue over Kibbe’s book deal.

When reached for comment, Armey had this to say.
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
post #190 of 2249
For profit cancer treatment centers? Jesus, our society is terrible.
post #191 of 2249

A guy walks into the Capitol and tries to take over a company at, lietally, gunpoint? AND THEY PAID HIM $8 MILLION FOR IT?

post #192 of 2249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Clark View Post

A guy walks into the Capitol and tries to take over a company at, lietally, gunpoint? AND THEY PAID HIM $8 MILLION FOR IT?

 

welcome to America...GOP style!

post #193 of 2249

with a grain of salt...

 

Report: Right-Wingers Plot Coup to Oust Boehner As House Speaker

 

<excerpt>

Quote:

At the right-wing Brietbart.com, Matthew Boyle writes of a plan by conservatives to wrest the speaker's gavel from Boehner by changing the rules of the vote to a secret ballot, under the reasoning that, if Boehner was unable to determine who voted against him, he would be unable to visit retribution on those members should his speakership survive the vote.

 

Although Boyle relies entirely on unnamed sources, he obtained a document laying out the plan, which is currently being circulated among right-wing members of the House. The irony is that they plan to use Boehner's promotion of an anti-union position favored by the Tea Party as the rationale for making the rules change.

 

 

and then later in the article...(if this isn't a "Shyamalyan twist", I don't know what is)

Quote:

Meanwhile, the center-right pundit Norman J. Ornstein, resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, is suggesting that members of congress use existing constitutional law to oust Boehner by chosing someone who is not a member of Congress. Writing at the Washington Post op-ed page, Ornstein suggests:

 

Go to Article I, Section 2: The Constitution does not say that the speaker of the House has to be a member of the House. In fact, the House can choose anybody a majority wants to fill the post.

 

Ornstein's suggestion? Jon Huntsman, the erstwhile presidential candidate and former U.S. ambassador to China, who he figures could win the votes of enough Democratic members of Congress (Huntsman was appointed to his China post by Obama) and less radical Republicans to win the gavel.

A novel idea, but highly unlikely on today's hyperpartisan landscape.

post #194 of 2249
No way this happens. If you name a speaker in that way get ready for the knives to come out no way anyone would get anything done they would be weaker than Boehner is right now. I feel we need a stronger speaker than we have know but this would cause total anarchy.

They have to pick someone from the House to pick to replace Boehner (ie-Ryan, Cantor) because anything else would be the epitome of a political nuclear weapon blowing up the Republicans into smithereens or at best a prolonged political party civil war splitting the party up between the teabaggers and the moderates, which in the end could be good but in the near future being utterly horrible!
post #195 of 2249

I say let them fight it out. Sure, there would be chaos in the near term, but I think that things could only get better from that nadir. Of course, the flip side is that the crazy-ass right-wing wing-nut fucktards come out on top and America discovers how much more worse things can get. Part of the problem also, which I don't see any way at the moment correcting, is that there is a giant, glacial cultural shift going on in American society and the wing-nuts can't wrap their minds around it. This change is also tied into the decline of America as a superpower and I'm sure all of this pure terror for all of them. Not that I feel sorry, or pity, for any of them. I wonder if all this drama is similar to when the civil rights era was going on in the 50s/60s and the changes that must have been going on in Congress back then?

post #196 of 2249
My money's on a House Ethics Committee investigation similar to the one used to remove Gingrich after he cost the party the 1996 Presidential race. You just know they've got dirt on him; his fellow Republicans wouldn't have trusted him with the Speaker position without some form of leverage. The knives are definitely coming out for Boehner after the new year, but we'll probably have to wait and see precisely how.
post #197 of 2249

If somehow Jon fucking Huntsman comes out as Speaker of the House when all is said and done, I may shit a brick. That would be beyond beautiful. Initially my thought was no way he would ever accept that... but... he seems particularly dismayed with the state of the things. He might just be crazy enough to take it.

 

Damn you for getting my hopes up VTran!

post #198 of 2249

I'm having a hard time seeing Huntsman as Speaker, if only because the idea of a sane, responsible Republican heading up the House feels like the kind of fallacy Louis Carroll would write.

post #199 of 2249

I'm pretty disillusioned about the idea of a "sane, moderate" Republican right now. I think of Huckabee, who for a while there seemed like he was going to calm the waters a bit, then went crazier than anyone (and apparently he'd been spouting this kind of crap to the faithful the whole time he was preaching moderation to the wider audience). Hell, Romney seemed sane and moderate for a long time. The modern GOP doesn't allow principled moderates in positions of power. They're only moderate to the extent they think it'll win over the larger world; within the party, you're expected to preach the gospel of hate.

post #200 of 2249

Replace Huntsman with Rush Limbaugh and I have a much easier time believing that scenario.

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