The Walking Dead "What have I done!?" Spoiler Thread

I'm halfway through Episode 3 and feel entirely betrayed.

About to start episode 5 in a few minutes. I am prepared to weep like a goddamn child.

I grabbed Carly in ep. 1, mainly because at that point I hadn't really gotten to know those characters that well (they're both "The Nice Person from the Drugstore" at that point), and it seemed like Carly might end up being a better choice as far as drama goes. So that's what I went with. And I have to say that the "payoff" to the subtle romance between Carly and Lee in the first bit of Act 3 was utterly shocking at the time. There were a few moments in this series (Larry in the meat locker after I decided to give him CPR in ep. 2 being another one) that made me gasp, and a few that made me sadly say, "Oh no." I don't know that a game has ever had this kind of emotional pull.

I just finished episode 5 a bit ago (and yeah, I think we should probably hold off on the spoilers on that one for a few days at least), and I guess I can see the complaints that your decisions don't have much of an impact, but then again I feel like those complaints are coming from people who don't understand how you can have an effect of story without having much of an effect on plot. These are small games, so what happens to your group isn't likely going to be that different between playthroughs, but I'm willing to bet that a lot of the stuff that shades what happens is a bit more open. It seems that plot outcomes aren't as much in your control as much as the thematic milieu is, and that's an interesting and (I think) effective approach.

This is a game I never ever plan to play again.  It was MY story and it was almost perfect.  One major regret I have...

So remember BADASS ice pick girl?  Well, I accidentally...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freeman 

This is a game I never ever plan to play again.  It was MY story and it was almost perfect.  One major regret I have...

 

So remember BADASS ice pick girl?  Well, I accidentally...

 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

Shot her during all the chaos and she ran off, never to be seen again.  Can any one confirm what happens to her if you manage to save her?  She was my favorite character, a video game version of Michonne who I actually genuinely liked.  I have to live with the knowledge that she's probably just another Sophia, all rotting and dead somewhere and it's all my fault. :(

Apparently you can go through the entire game without knowing her backstory. A friend told me a bit about it Though I didn't shoot her--she just left.

I'm not reading any spoilers, but I just finished part 2, and by God, I love this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

About to start episode 5 in a few minutes. I am prepared to weep like a goddamn child.

I cried like a baby at the end.  I honestly don't think I've felt emotion like that due to a video game.  TWD is an incredible achievement in video game history, and something I've never experienced in my 30+ years of gaming.

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Originally Posted by Splatoon 

Alright, here's one I've been wondering about: who crushed Jerry's head in the meat-locker? It's one of the rare instances in a game where I actually felt guilty about a decision, one which in the moment I rationalized as the "reasonable" choice but which ultimately was motivated by a strong undercurrent of just not liking the big angry fucker. When trying to explain it to Clementine it suddenly made it clear to me just how wrong that decision had been, and it actively changed my decision making process going forward (not that it helped much). I ended up not taking food from the car to set an example for her, but ironically, in Episode 3 I once again made that vengeful snap decision of abandoning Lilly by the side of the road, and again I felt guilty about it later (especially with the final events). It was a pretty scary indicator of how easy it is when faced with that snap decision to make one based on immediate anger.

I crushed Jerry's head. It pretty much panned out the way it did for you, where I thought there was no way he was coming back (He did have heart problems, after all) but regretted it later.

That said, fuck Lilly. Her and her father were negative and divisive influences from the start, and it was always pretty clear that they wouldn't think twice about fucking everyone over if things didn't go their way one time too many... Which, of course Lilly eventually did. I cut her a load of slack because I felt guilty about what happened with Jerry, but shooting another party member like that is inexcusable. In a way those two are maybe the best written characters in the whole series, in that you still want to try and see things from their point of view even though they're bad news.

Yeah, that's basically how it plays out with Carly. Lilly threatens Ben, and when Carly intervenes Lilly accuses her too. There's a huge argument, and Lilly basically shoots Carly in the face right there and then. To be honest though, I always felt that Lilly took after her father in that she'd be about the interests of the group until something happens that she doesn't agree with, and then she'd become unneccesarily agressive about it. Being abrasive I could put up with, but shooting a party member in cold blood and without proof was crossing the line for me.

Kenny isn't much better, though. I got on well with him initially but he really started to grate on me by the later episodes, especially with his treatment of Ben.

Did you guys leave Lilly on the side of the road? (it looks like Splatoon did). At first I felt guilty, but with the stress level of Episode 4, it felt good having one less "wild card" to worry about.

She shot an innocent woman in the face.

She shot an innocent woman in the face.

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Originally Posted by Jacob Singer 

She shot an innocent woman in the face.

 

She shot an innocent woman in the face.

That would be the betrayal I felt.  I was helping you!  I was on your side!

(On a side note, the storytelling there is great, especially with the little hints of a Lee/Carly romance.  Makes it hurt all the more when that goes down.)

I just finished Episode 4.  Oh fuck.  Fuckfuckfuckfuckfuck.

Wow.

Finished episode 5.

Wow.

Regarding Lilly and Larry:

I guess it's worth noting that I played Lee as a guy trying to hold on to his humanity while trying to keep this group's shit together, and that motivated me to make my decisions, along with a hint of thinking certain decisions were simply more dramatically interesting (which the game's moral nuances allow for). Anyway, I tried to save Larry while Kenny caved his head in, which made the episode 2 an interesting counterpoint to 1. At this point in the story, I had vouched for Duck in the pharmacy, with the reasoning that we can't kill someone for what might happen, and then Kenny goes and does what he does (which is what Larry wanted to do with Duck!).

After that, things were a bit more ambiguous as to the Kenny/Lilly split. I had Carly in my group, but I ended up NOT leaving Lilly on the side of the road. I think it's important to note that the decision isn't given in terms of a Mass Effect-ish Paragon "I forgive you!"/Renegade "Get fucked!" dichotomy. I had a few modes of reasoning for my decision. One was that this bitch is both obviously unhinged and extremely capable. Do I want her out there, free and pissed off, or tied up in my RV (not that it helped)? The other was that leaving her for dead just seemed a horrible way to make her face justice in a world where there are so few living.

Now, I don't know what happens if you leave her. But with the way that I left that decision, I think that Lilly would make a great main character for a Season 2. A lot of people would HATE it, though.

I have to echo Shape's reaction to the end of ep. 4. I was seriously considering powering through the final two episodes last Friday night, but after the end of that one I literally had to sit down with my head in my hands for a bit and give it a couple of days.

Lily is a character from the comic book, that's why her fate had to be ambiguous.

This is my game of the year, and there's a not a real close second. It shows just how uniquely powerful a game story can be. Compared to the best of TV and film, the game didn't have nearly the best script this year, but no other story in any medium impacted me as much.

I'm already anticipating season 2 of this game as much as any upcoming game, film or TV show. I'm fascinated to see what Telltale has learned from their experience.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dark Shape 

Wow.

 

Finished episode 5.

 

Wow.

Can I quote this, and add about five hundred "wow"s?

Just finished it. I feel drained.

At least now I can read the whole thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett 

 

After that, things were a bit more ambiguous as to the Kenny/Lilly split. I had Carly in my group, but I ended up NOT leaving Lilly on the side of the road. I think it's important to note that the decision isn't given in terms of a Mass Effect-ish Paragon "I forgive you!"/Renegade "Get fucked!" dichotomy. I had a few modes of reasoning for my decision. One was that this bitch is both obviously unhinged and extremely capable. Do I want her out there, free and pissed off, or tied up in my RV (not that it helped)? The other was that leaving her for dead just seemed a horrible way to make her face justice in a world where there are so few living.

For me, that was the exact reason I left her behind. No way was I having Clementine be around someone who was capable of shooting an innocent person based on an unproven whim, and the fact that she was capable just exacerbated that. It wasn't even a case of justice for me, just the fact that she'd already proven herself unhinged and dangerous, and a direct threat to the group and Clem.

The finale is pretty stunning. Whatever awards are out there for game voice acting should be thrown at whoever plays Clem, like now. Just a heartbreaking performance. I played episodes 2, 4 and 5 in quick succession and it left me drained in a way no videogame had ever achieved. The next game I tackled? Spec Ops. So in a nutshell, I've gorged on just how sophisticated game writing is getting even if I took on two of the most depressing game out there one after the other!
 

The funny thing with episode 5 is that, up until that point, I wasn't really clicking with the whole 'voice on the walkie' plot.  It seemed silly and a bit out of sync with everything else.  And then I found out who it was, and there's that great scene in the hotel room.  I was stunned in the best way possible.

I can't see it being solely Clementine, just because she wouldn't be strong enough to grapple with walkers, and I don't see them losing that aspect of the game. I'd be fine if they branch out and let you control multiple characters, either with chapters devoted to them or even mixing it up in the same scene. Additionally, I hope it picks up directly where the epilogue left off.

I just hope Season 2 is a lot better.

Of course. For your precious 5 bucks an episode, they should have paid the cast, programmers, artists and all the other technicians to produce twenty+ times the additional available content, so that every single dialogue choice and game action would play out in an entirely different outcome. Fuck subtle storytelling, fuck using the limits of the medium as an assett instead of a liability, fuck making a property something original and seminal and something that will likely be used by other professionals in the business as a go-to template for storytelling in gaming. Fuck all that. If I can't interpret "The game adapts to the choices you make" in my own uniquely narrow way, then why bother?

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Originally Posted by Jacob Singer 

Of course. For your precious 5 bucks an episode, they should have paid the cast, programmers, artists and all the other technicians to produce twenty+ times the additional available content, so that every single dialogue choice and game action would play out in an entirely different outcome. Fuck subtle storytelling, fuck using the limits of the medium as an assett instead of a liability, fuck making a property something original and seminal and something that will likely be used by other professionals in the business as a go-to template for storytelling in gaming. Fuck all that. If I can't interpret "The game adapts to the choices you make" in my own uniquely narrow way, then why bother?

If I just lowered my expectations I'd love it, right?

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Originally Posted by mongycore 

You did manage to list Syndicate in your top 3 of 2012...

it has great gameplay, especially in co-op. TWD has crap gameplay, only reason to play it was being able to influence the outcome of a story, it's barely a game otherwise.

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Originally Posted by MegaManRising 

 

If I just lowered my expectations I'd love it, right?

No, but if you kept your expectations in the realm of the real world, and also didn't let expectations color your critical filter so completely, you might.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Singer 

 

No, but if you kept your expectations in the realm of the real world, and also didn't let expectations color your critical filter so completely, you might.

In the real world I got 6 different endings from a Call of Duty game.

Ooooh, neat!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Singer 

Ooooh, neat!

I'm gonna edit this: I'm just really disappointed, but if it makes you guys feel better I'm often a contrarian and if I do agree with others, even if it's just a small group of people on a forum, I'll question why I agree with them and even try to find a different reason to agree, I'm just weird like that. But, I totally expected multiple endings.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaManRising 

 

It was pretty neat. Heck, in TWD sometimes I got dialogue that suggested I made different choices from what I did earlier, can't say the same about Call of Duty: Black Ops II. I suppose that is a much bigger game and it would cost more money to buy and I should totally care about that, though.

You're seriously comparing the MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR TENTPOLE FRANCHISE CoD to the point-and-click digital-download-only The Walking Dead?

Okay, I'm out. You can have the last word. This conversation is making my gums ache.

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Originally Posted by MegaManRising 

 

In the real world I got 6 different endings from a Call of Duty game.

Did you care about a single one of them?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaManRising 

I just hope Season 2 is a lot better.

Game of the Century, then?

Because it's already Game of the Year...

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/12/07/the-walking-dead-dominates-spikes-video-game-awards/

And that's not the last award it's going to win... deservedly.

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Originally Posted by The Dark Shape 

 

Did you care about a single one of them?

I did, the game had a good story, I especially cared because my actions determined the outcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farsight 

Game of the Century, then?

 

Because it's already Game of the Year...

 

http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/12/07/the-walking-dead-dominates-spikes-video-game-awards/

 

And that's not the last award it's going to win... deservedly.

Wow, my gums are starting to ache, too, since you guys think the Spike TV video game awards matter.

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Originally Posted by Splatoon 

Good to hear about the Spike Awards. It's certainly not the most...prestigious prize, but it's probably the most visible of game award shows and any exposure this game can get is a good thing.

Sure, I'll agree, if the genre can get more attention we're more likely to get big budget productions that actually do the things I wish this game had done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Splatoon 

 

To be fair, the mechanics of TWD do tend to top out at serviceable. Granted, they're  secondary to the story so an amount of streamlining is to be expected (and appreciated), but while I don't need traditional adventure game levels of puzzle obtuseness nor CoD gun mechanics, I do think there's room for growth in the "find single object, use single object on problem" adventuring, rail-shooting segments and quick-time events.

 

On the other hand, the "multiple endings" thing wasn't an issue for me simply because the game story gave the illusion of progressing organically, even if it's clear upon reflection there was a clear diamond effect in play. Short of a massive level of redundancy (which as Jacob pointed out, isn't really financially feasible), the only other option would seem to be tacking on a significant but largely out of context "big decision" at the end. I'd also argue that you very significantly impact the outcome of the story, it's just not summed up in the last five minutes of the game. This thread alone demonstrates how different everyone's play experiences was, right up thru the final episode. Even the inevitably of Lee's "death" isn't a fixed act, but one that can serve as the final culmination of your decisions and playstyle. I'd made rash, violent decisions throughout the game, and so in that final moment I told Clementine to leave me, because I didn't want her to become callous to the act of killing. Someone else could have been the stoic pragmatist and ordered her to shoot them so as to harden her for what she has to face on her own. I'd argue that's a pretty significant difference right there, and a much more powerful moment than, say, Mass Effect 3's dial-a-savior deus ex machina. Ultimately this wasn't a story about vast, sweeping, world-changing consequence, and thus it's not surprising that the ending is more nuanced and subtle.

Well put. Also, the primary influence the game gives you isn't over the plot per se but the relationships within. When it boils down to it, the game is about the importance of keeping positive relationships with the group while knowing when to make the hard choices. How you manage this influences how the other characters feel about you, which has the knock-on effect of causing later events to pan out in slightly different ways but doesn't change the main story beats. Basically, you're trying to manage the other characters and their opinion of you to get the most beneficial outcome, a process the game is mostly structured around thwarting at every possible opportunity.

The Walking Dead has always been to do with human relationships rather than plot. The latter only serves as a stage to develop the former, and the game nails this.

.

Waiting until everything was out so I could play the episodes back to back was, in retrospect, a bad idea. Mechanically, it messes with the pacing. An episode's epilogue leading straight into the next one's prologue tends to create pretty long uneventful stretches until things get going again. More importantly though it was a bad idea for my brain. My stomach hurt as I wrapped this game up.

Because in the storytelling aspect this is the first ever game that was successful. In fact it was so successful it is actually better than both the comic and the show when it comes to this aspect. Burying that kid knowing what had happened to him was pretty much the most difficult thing I've ever had to deal with in a game. Ever. I enjoyed many games this year but I can't honestly debate holding any of them over TWD.  

Just finished Episode 5. A few thoughts:

Kenny. The character of Kenny exemplifies why this game is so powerful. At first, I despised him when he let Herschel's son die. I continued to dislike his aggressive redneck demeanor. But I got to know his sweet-natured wife. I let his son be my sidekick and help me figure out who was betraying the group (worthless Ben, who I'll get to in a moment). I was disgusted with his preemptive murder of Larry, something I disagreed with and never let him forget. I watched him lose his son and wife. I watched him prove his worth, time and again. I came to appreciate his hard-edged outlook and advice. I came to care about him, even when he never let me forget the shit I gave him on Herschel's farm. I went along with his foolish plan to get a boat even as it became less and less feasible, just because I wanted to spare his feelings (this is a video game character we're talking about). I kicked his ass when he went too far. When he selflessly dropped into that pit, I marveled at the extent of his character arc. And I REFUSE to believe he died in there. He will be back in Season 2, god dammit. That dumb violent hick is one of the most well-drawn characters in video game history. 

Ben. Screw Ben. He got my boy Doug shot in the head. He got Kenny's family killed. I told him off about both, too. I still warned that little prick not to tell Kenny, but when he insisted I said go ahead. Then I encouraged Kenny to beat him. I gave him the benefit of the doubt time and again, and when he pulled the hatchet from the door and got Brie killed, I said enough is enough. I let him die in the bell tower. I'd do again too. I took Doug under my wing, let the lady reporter die to save him, and Ben gets him killed. Infuriating. 

When I started playing the game, I decided I would play as the most cold-hearted the game would allow. Just look out for myself and screw over others for my benefit. Once the game got rolling, boy was I wrong. I still did the occasional cold-blooded act (I let that racist ass Larry chow down on some human flesh for example) but for the most part I struggled with a lot of decisions, and I tried to protect everybody, even those who gave me grief or endangered me. Game of the year by a landslide. 

When Lee told Clementine to save the bullet and leave him to die? I'll admit that I had tears swelling up. Never has a videogame, a VIDEOGAME, affected me in this manner. This is game of the year for me, hands down.

Also, at the end I saw that somehow I could have killed the stranger instead of Clem, but I'm not sure how.