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Chris Dorner's Online Manifesto-Manhunt

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 

Thought this forum would be the best place for this story as it could easily morph into a larger discussion about the current state of affairs in regards to the police and their procedures.

 

Here's a link to Donner's full 'manifesto'

 

http://wap.myfoxla.com/w/main/story/84473837/

 

I haven't made it all the way through reading it (It's long) but. wow

 

One one hand, there is no question that Donner is a murderer and what he has done is monstrous, one the other hand, some of the points he raises in his manifesto is worth consideration.

 

The fact that 2 innocent women were shot by the police is extremely troubling.

 

Key events in hunt for ex-LA cop, suspected killer

 

edit: This was posted on the main FoxLA page but the link above to the mobile version is still unedited.

Quote:
NOTE: At the request of the Los Angeles Police Department, FOX 11 has removed all names mentioned in this manifesto for their safety. Also note that we have redacted some offensive language contained within this statement.

Edited by VTRan - 2/8/13 at 10:24am
post #2 of 53

I have no doubt the man had a valid beef with the LAPD, which is a pretty notoriously corrupt outfit. But to think this was the only way to resolve it is madness.

post #3 of 53

He had me up until here:

 

Tebow, I really wanted to see you take charge of an offense again and the game. You are not a good QB by todays standards, but you are a great football player who knows how to lead a team and WIN. You will be "Tebowing" when you reach your next team. I have faith in you. Get out of that circus they call the Jets and away from the reality TV star, Rex Ryan, and Mark Rapist Sanchez.

 

Now mental health really becomes an issue.

post #4 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

I have no doubt the man had a valid beef with the LAPD, which is a pretty notoriously corrupt outfit.

 

I think it's a little early to say that.  The LAPD was under federal oversight for 8-10 years.  There are surely some bad cops left - how likely would it be there weren't, in a force of 10,000?  But even the LAPD's critics will say things have changed from the King/Rampart/pre-Bratton days.  It will take a long time, though, to repair the decades of racism, brutality and corruption which go back a hundred years.

 

Dorner may have had a legitimate complaint, but the guy was headed over the cliff whether it was valid or not.  The mistake the LAPD made was hiring him in the first place.   

post #5 of 53
Also on Dorner's shit list: Latinos, Asians and Lesbians on the force. From his epic hate rant (via Joe My God):
Quote:
Those Hispanic officers who victimize their own ethnicity because they are new immigrants to this country and are unaware of their civil rights. You call them wetbacks to their face and demean them in front of fellow officers of different ethnicities so that you will receive some sort of acceptance from your colleagues. I’m not impressed. Most likely, your parents or grandparents were immigrants at one time, but you have forgotten that. You are a high value target. Those lesbian officers in supervising positions who go to work, day in day out, with the sole intent of attempting to prove your misandrist authority (not feminism) to degrade male officers. You are a high value target. Those Asian officers who stand by and observe everything I previously mentioned other officers participate in on a daily basis but you say nothing, stand for nothing and protect nothing. Why? Because of your usual saying, ” I……don’t like conflict”. You are a high value target as well.



There are undoubtedly still officers on the payroll who were getting started during the Daryl Gates era. They saw a police force that was embarrassing the nation and said, "I want to be a part of that." They'd be in leadership positions by now. Dorner's screed doesn't sound like a letter of grievance over any one item, though, does it? This reads to me like a guy lashing out at the world with little more focus than an infant throwing a tantrum.
post #6 of 53
Thread Starter 

It really is all over the place content wise...after being critical of the minorities mentioned in Reasor's post above, he goes on to say this-

Quote:

Ellen Degeneres, continue your excellent contribution to entertaining America and bringing the human factor to entertainment. You changed the perception of your gay community and how we as Americans view the LGBT community. I congratulate you on your success and opening my eyes as a young adult, and my generation to the fact that you are know different from us other than who you choose to love. Oh, and you Prop 8 supporters, why the fuck do you care who your neighbor marries. Hypocritical pieces of shit.

 

Westboro Baptist Church, may you all burn slowly in a fire, not from smoke inhalation, but from the flames and only the flames.

Quote:
LGBT community and supporters, the same way you have the right to voice your opinion on acceptance of gay marriage, Chick Fil-A has a right to voice their beliefs as well. That's what makes America so great. Freedom of expression. Don't be assholes and boycott/degrade their business and customers who patronize the locations. They make some damn good chicken! Vandalizing (graffiti) their locations does not help any cause.

??

His praise of all the movies and celebrities does reek of a teenage mentality.

 

One of the  guys on a motorcycle forum I frequent supposedly knew him from his military days.

This was linked to:

Quote:

Manhunt: Ex-LAPD officer accused in 3 killings spent time in Enid

<excerpt>

The Nov. 5, 2002, edition of the Enid News & Eagle included a story of a pair of good Samaritans — both student pilots at Vance Air Force Base — who found a bank bag containing nearly $8,000 in the street.

One of the men was identified as Navy Ensign Chris Dorner.

According to a Navy spokesman, Christopher Jordan Dorner served at various aviation training units from July 4, 2002, to June 15, 2004. A spokesman at Vance Air Force Base could not confirm Thursday that Dorner served at Vance.

In the 2002 News & Eagle story, Chris Dorner and Marine Lt. Andrew Baugher recounted how they turned the bank bag over to Enid police, and the money was returned to Enid Korean Church of Grace.

 

I don't think it will happen, but I hope he is taken alive...if only to determine his reasoning (??) behind all this.

post #7 of 53

The quote above by VTRan made me think of Taxi Driver.  Specifically, at the beginning of the movie where he asks out Betsy and on their pie date, goes into a soliloquy about him asking her out because of the connection he felt in the room when he walked in as opposed to her connection with Albert Brooks, to which she replies that "Yes, I wouldn't be here if I didn't."  My point is that Scorcese emphasizes that insanity can be definitely wrong about how to act and how to think (kind of the definition of insanity), but insane people can still make valid observations about the world which sane people can utilize. 

 

The trick is to not murder people though, that kinda taints whatever you have to say about anything. I didn't read the his manifesto, but I don't need to be convinced that law enforcement is fucking up around the country.

post #8 of 53
Thread Starter 

a bit of a different look at this guy....

 

Christopher Dorner Court And Police Records Show Ex-Cop Murder Suspect Was Sensitive, Disturbed

 

<excerpt>

Quote:

Where Dorner sees himself as a warrior, others see someone much different. The 6-foot, 270-pounder is a physical hulk who – despite his size – seemed to battle deep-seated insecurities, lived with his mother and cracked under the pressures of police work.

 

Court and police files show that Dorner once began weeping while on duty in a patrol car, awkwardly flashed his police badge on a first date and told a girlfriend he kept his emotions bottled up.

 

Those who study the psyches of criminals said Dorner's aggressive and self-aggrandizing rant indicates a classic case of malignant narcissist personality disorder. Some people with the disorder are extremely thin-skinned and vengeful, said Mary Ellen O'Toole, a retired FBI profiler.

 

They may seem insecure, she said, but in reality their rages – and even tears – are extreme reactions to real or imagined criticisms because they have such grandiose visions of themselves.

 

I do see that that LAPD re-investigating his firing.

 

Also, I see the LAPD is also in full blown CYA mode with regards to those women who were accidentally shot.

post #9 of 53
Considering he doesn't think there's anything abnormal or unreasonable about strangling a guy over racial slurs, that's not exactly a surprise.

Seriously, though, I wonder if we'll ever know to what extent his complaints have some basis in reality. He's obviously unbalanced, but on the other hand, it's not like the LAPD has a sterling reputation.
post #10 of 53

I shouldn't be, but I am still shocked at how people are rallying to this guy as some kind of folk hero.

post #11 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

I shouldn't be, but I am still shocked at how people are rallying to this guy as some kind of folk hero.

 

Well, as mentioned, the LAPD has a pretty shitty rep., so I'm not really too surprised that some people are reacting the way they are.

 

Also, our culture has a tendency to deify the anti-hero. ( Alonzo Harris, Batman, Snake Plissken, etc.)

post #12 of 53

Is there any chance of this being a Ricochet-type scenario? I expect the truth to come out during a dramatic showdown at the Watts Tower.

post #13 of 53

Yeah people are all focused on the crimes he witnessed while on the LAPD, but what about the crimes he witnessed at High School?

 

Mr. Freid, assistant principal, Cypress HS. Remember when you lied to my mother and the police officer in your office about stating that you never stated to me in a private conversation that you know the theft suspect (Miranda) stole my watch. Let me refresh your memory. A physical education teachers assistant, a student, stole the list of combination codes to peoples lockers, from the P.E. teacher. That student then opened many of those lockers and stole students personal property. My watch was taken in that multi theft an I reported it to you. A week later you discovered that the theft suspect was Paul Miranda, a student. You stated to me in private that you know for a fact he stole my property. When I attempted to retrieve my property from the suspect. Campus security was called and you lied and stated that you never stated to me that you "know he stole my watch". You sat there and lied to their faces right in front of me. You said it with such a deliberate, stern face. I never forgot that and was not surprised when 13 years later I was lied on again in the BOR by Teresa Evans. maybe you can confess to your family at the very least in the private of your own home. After that, contact my mother and apologize for lying to her in 1996.

 

OH and....

If possible, I want my brain preserved for science/research to study the effects of severe depression on an individual's brain. Since 6/26/08 when I was relieved of duty and 1/2/09 when I was terminated I have been afflicted with severe depression. I've had two CT scans during my lifetime that are in my medical record at Kaiser Permanente. Both are from concussions resulting from playing football. The first one was in high school, 10/96. The second was in college and occurred in 10/99. Both were conducted at Kaiser Permanente hospitals in LA/Orange county. These two CT scans should give a good baseline for my brain activity before severe depression began in late 2008.

Sure, many of you "law enforcement experts and specialist" will state, "in all my years this is the worst........", Stop!!! That's not important. Ask yourselves what would cause somebody to take these drastic measures like I did. That's what is important.

 

This is no hero. He's an emotionally unstable Narcissist who went way over the edge.

post #14 of 53
Thread Starter 

All the news channels are in the middle of an speculation orgasm right now...

post #15 of 53
What a shit-show. Local news crews close enough to the cabin to see what's going on have been asked to shut off operations by the cops. Cable news channels, unable to get any real news from on the ground, are left to speculate emptily while old footage plays. Whatever happens next, the cops will be able to construct any narrative they want after the fact.

The only live news I'm getting is from Californians tweeting what they claim they hear on the police band radio, hearsay at best. Maybe Dorner is dead in the cabin, maybe the cops lost Dorner and started a forest fire trying to smoke him out.


ETA: at 8:000PM, police scanners are cutting out. Someone's jamming them.
_
Edited by Reasor - 2/12/13 at 5:05pm
post #16 of 53
I'm sort of baffled by people on my Twitter feed who think Dorner is some sort of folk hero. Really? Apart from the police officers he gunned down, he murdered two innocent people, one of whom was the daughter of the police captain who couldn't save his job, the other her fiance. Some hero.

I can understand the "fuck the man" attitude regarding the LAPD, but this clown ain't exactly Batman.
post #17 of 53

So the cabin's on fire and there are tracks leading to a horse barn so they think he might have escaped.

This story is just so damn ridiculous.

post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I'm sort of baffled by people on my Twitter feed who think Dorner is some sort of folk hero. Really? Apart from the police officers he gunned down, he murdered two innocent people, one of whom was the daughter of the police captain who couldn't save his job, the other her fiance. Some hero.

I can understand the "fuck the man" attitude regarding the LAPD, but this clown ain't exactly Batman.

I haven't drunk the Kool-Aid and come to view Donner as some sort of hero, but I'm not going to buy whatever story the LAPD try to weave out of this. What's going on up there tonight looks like an extrajudicial execution. This guy was never going to get his day in court. There were civilian fatalities because the LAPD were running a "shoot first, ask questions later" operation.


ETA: U.S. Marshals Service district chief Kurt Ellingson supposedly told CNN's Brian Todd tonight that a suspect tried to get out through the back door of the cabin at some point today, but was pushed back in.

_
Edited by Reasor - 2/12/13 at 6:11pm
post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charley Ford View Post

So the cabin's on fire and there are tracks leading to a horse barn so they think he might have escaped.

This story is just so damn ridiculous.

 

 

Hahah those cops shoulda watched "The Following" they'd know they have to Surround the damn cabin.

post #20 of 53

Now they're saying he didn't make it out of the cabin (if it's him, of course). So that's that.

post #21 of 53
FOX: He's been killed

CBS: He's escaped

NBC: He's got hostages

Onion: He's riding through the forest on a unicorn

Twitter: #Thatawkwardmomentwhen it's LL Cool J in the cabin
post #22 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


I haven't drunk the Kool-Aid and come to view Donner as some sort of hero, but I'm not going to buy whatever story the LAPD try to weave out of this. What's going on up there tonight looks like an extrajudicial execution. This guy was never going to get his day in court. There were civilian fatalities because the LAPD were running a "shoot first, ask questions later" operation.

_

 

Ultimately I suppose it's what that comes down to, but I think the shooting of the two deliverywomen may have been a case where the officers did not use their (now commonly issued, as I understand it) rifles as properly instructed.  That shooting took place shortly after Dorner ambushed the two cops.  The cops - and this isn't an excuse - were not following procedure and probably acting out of fear. 

 

Ever see 44 Minutes with Michael Madsen? The movie finishes with a hubristic declaration that the LAPD now carries AR-15s in their squad cars.  I remember watching it and thinking, this isn't good.  The LAPD may have made gains under Bratton, but it was built as the most militaristic police force in North America, and that structure essentially remains. The cops are essentially armed like riflemen.

post #23 of 53
Quote:
RT Oh really? RT Chief: To be targeted because of what you are, that is absolutely terrifying.
post #24 of 53
At 9:45 PM, it was reported that a body had been pulled from what's left of the cabin. At 10 PM, LAPD said the body was Donner.
post #25 of 53

At 10:05 PM they admitted it was really a Middle Aged White Couple from Des Moines.

post #26 of 53

at 10:34pm, Fran Kranz popped up from sure death and beat the shit of of a guy with a telescoping bong.

post #27 of 53

He went out in a blazing cabin. Holy shit. 

post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackyShimSham View Post

He went out in a blazing cabin. Holy shit. 
I will bet you any amount of money that somewhere a producer is optioning this as we speak.

If they're lucky, they'll get Tarantino.
post #29 of 53
CBS' San Diego affiliate is now saying that the cabin's smoldering ruin is still too hot to enter; no one has pulled a body out, much less identified it. LAPD has not confirmed Dorner's death yet and are still on alert.

This is what happens when the fourth estate self-censors in order to let the cops commit violence in privacy. The only people who know what the fuck is going on over there are still the ones viewing the scene with their own eyes.
post #30 of 53

Maybe...sounds like no one knows what's going on.

post #31 of 53

Was there any doubt the LAPD would kill him? They shot at two hispanic women, one of whom they mistook for Dorner, without warning, because they thought they had their guy. Looks like the embarrassment and shame of having him go to trial would have been unacceptable.

 

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Newspaper-Delivery-Women-Shot-in-Torrance-to-Get-New-Truck-Courtesy-of-LAPD-190568921.html

 

They shot their truck 15 times, and hit the women three times, though not fatally.

post #32 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stunt poop View Post

Was there any doubt the LAPD would kill him? They shot at two hispanic women, one of whom they mistook for Dorner, without warning, because they thought they had their guy. Looks like the embarrassment and shame of having him go to trial would have been unacceptable.

 

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Newspaper-Delivery-Women-Shot-in-Torrance-to-Get-New-Truck-Courtesy-of-LAPD-190568921.html

 

They shot their truck 15 times, and hit the women three times, though not fatally.

 

Those are just warning shots from the LAPD.  Does the 'gift' of the new truck somehow excuse or protect them from legal action? 

post #33 of 53

Not to mention the humiliation of a Hispanic woman being mistaken for a LineBacker Sized Black Man!

post #34 of 53
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Vivisector View Post

 

Those are just warning shots from the LAPD.  Does the 'gift' of the new truck somehow excuse or protect them from legal action? 

 

There was probably a bunch of "paperwork" to be signed in order to receive the new truck. I haven't read whether they accepted the truck or not.

 

 

I'd love to find out how many rounds the 6 LAPD officers actually fired during this incident....bet it's way above 15.

 

Dorner manhunt: LAPD gunfire hits Torrance homes, cars


Edited by VTRan - 2/13/13 at 5:51pm
post #35 of 53
post #36 of 53

Yeah that essay demonstrates why the Left has been marginalized in the US. I get what he's saying, but Dorner was so clearly dealing with fundamental personal issues with or without "The MAN" keeping him down. Also, Dorner seemed to have grievances against every race and sexual orientation. So, Fail.

post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Yeah that essay demonstrates why the Left has been marginalized in the US.

Given the hero worship that so many liberals have for police, the state, and the prosecution of the war on terror now that the president has a D in front of his name, don't give them too much credit. Certain liberal intellectuals and groups like the ACLU, sure. The right will discredit the left whether they have good reasons or not, but don't think it's because of the left's integrity.

post #38 of 53

I keep hearing this "hero worship" thing. I live in LA. I don't know a single person who views this guy as anything other than a nut. Should racism and corruption be stopped in the LAPD? Of course! But just because a psychopath thinks that too doesn't mean I agree with HIM. He'll probably never see a trial, but if he did, and he started a "pay for my defense and all my expenses" website, and libs actually donate money, THEN you can get on our ass about hero worship. It's just the right being desperate for a non-right-wing crazy to point at and go "see? see? It's not just us, see?" 

 

Meanwhile George Zimmerman is still getting fan mail...

post #39 of 53

I pretty explicitly wasn't talking about supporting Dorner, dingus. I agree that his motives have been reported so as to malign and trivialize them as if the media is worried that reporting them accurately is tantamount to supporting Dorner's murders. Or, they actively believe that attempting to understanding that people's reasons for murder as possibly being based in real grievances is the same as condoning murder. And I agree with the article Dr Syn posted.

 

Would it have been so costly to scan for more than the words "hero worship" in my post and read the whole thing? I was testifying to the fact that the left reveres the violent power of the police and the military to arrest and kill problems away, with a few exceptions such as pundits like Glenn Greenwald, and believing that they've been marginalized for their integrity when it comes to defying police power is false. I was hoping I wouldn't have to condescend and post at length and in detail examples and illustrations of the point for someone not to read a left versus right argument into what I said, but then you posted.

 

The right will vilify them as being anti-police and military regardless for having even a little insight into problems that the police, for instance, create (Bill O'Reilly was complaining the other night that the media was sympathizing with Dorner by merely reporting on Dorner's manifesto), so I'm not saying they have good reasons for maligning liberals. They usually have bad reasons, because they hold many worse positions or are just trying to get power even if they all but in name agree with liberals. But the right aren't maligning the left for ideaological differences that they largely don't have.

 

But to say that liberals are trivialized for their well thought out analysis of guys like Dorner (which that article does) and show how the police need to reconsider its policies to stop making enemies is giving liberals credit where they don't deserve it. The left largely doesn't have integrity on this issue. The liberal intellectuals and groups like the ACLU who oppose police abuse get trotted to smear all liberals, but to say that the left's level headedness on these problems is what gets them trivialized is to give them credit they don't deserve.

 

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about that's representative of many liberals (I know, you'll probably want to point out that if they did this kind of test with conservatives, they'd be just as ignorant and hypocritical. All it means is that both sides are unprincipled and after support and power). These people interviewed oppose Obama's policies when they're led to believe that Romney calls for them but immediately accept them when the host reveals that they are Obama's, with I think only one exception. I like how the video has to explicitly state that they are not endorsing Romney. Because you know there are people who are so unconcerned with mere truth and are concerned with supporting one party's power over another that they think any criticism of one side means support for the other. It's a concern more for having a side than for searching for the truth, something the right and left have in common.

 

Anyways, here's some other good stuff on Dorner. For one thing, the reward the LAPD was offering was a crock. They had no intention of capturing him and just wanted to kill him.

 

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/dorner-to-captives-i-just-want-to-clear-my-name.html

 

You can hear the LAPD saying, "Burners deployed and we have a fire" at 1:28 in this video. They deployed some kind of incendiary tear gas.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCdqybEfy9w&feature=youtu.be

 

And in this one you hear, "Burn that fucking house down."

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNk-bV40XMc

 

The LAPD acted like the military and went out to kill Dorner. They even used drones to search for him.

post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post


I will bet you any amount of money that somewhere a producer is optioning this as we speak.

If they're lucky, they'll get Tarantino.

 

 

Nicolas Winding Refn both has prior experience with biopics about large/violent madmen, and has expressed interest in producing a new entry in this series:

 

 

 

 

Just saying.

post #41 of 53

Seriously though, if you think about it, this whole crazy story SCREAMS slasher flick. Years from now, people will be sitting around camp fires at Big Bear Lake CA, telling stories about the hulking homicidal ex-cop who was unjustly kicked off the force and died in a fire... but it is said his undead form still wanders the woods on his mission of revenge against all those who wronged him. God help anyone who gets in his way!

post #42 of 53
It writes itself.
post #43 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Disciple_72 View Post

Seriously though, if you think about it, this whole crazy story SCREAMS slasher flick. Years from now, people will be sitting around camp fires at Big Bear Lake CA, telling stories about the hulking homicidal ex-cop who was unjustly kicked off the force and died in a fire... but it is said his undead form still wanders the woods on his mission of revenge against all those who wronged him. God help anyone who gets in his way!

 

 

Even now, as we type, Dr Loomis and Deputy Hunt have the charred remains of the body over at the medical examiner's table....

post #44 of 53

Syd, saw your comment in the rep you gave me. Thanks, and understood. And on that count I agree. Right wingers do like to paint liberals as lionizing criminals.

post #45 of 53

The guy was clearly messed up and pretty much deep sixed his point when he started killing people, but that doesn't mean the LAPD doesn't need a major overhaul/housecleaning.  As far as the cabin torching, this was an execution.  Dorner was the villain, clearly, but police of all people should follow the rule of law.  Being a police officer, especially here, is an incredibly hard job.  You could die any moment of any day, so I respect the hell out of them, but I can't imagine the LAPD isn't embarrassed by every aspect of this, from the contents of the manifesto (a lot of which is true, according to many current and former LA cops), to their panicky reaction, to burning down the cabin rather than having the manhunt result in an arrest.  I hope there is a positive outcome and some change in the department.

post #46 of 53

Huh so the LAPD really applaud Ellen DeGeneres for her ability to Entertain America while presenting a positive role model for the Gay and Lesbian Communities? Right on!

post #47 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cylon Baby View Post

Huh so the LAPD really applaud Ellen DeGeneres for her ability to Entertain America while presenting a positive role model for the Gay and Lesbian Communities? Right on!

 

Zing!

post #48 of 53
Cause of death: suicide by gunshot wound, according to San Bernadino County Sheriff John McMahon.
post #49 of 53

Amazing that a man can shoot himself 25 times. In the head! Zing!

post #50 of 53

I've really been enjoying NSFW Corp's reporting lately.

 

They just tossed up two articles on Dorner, including this one on the San Bernadino PD: https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/sbcs (link is safe for work).

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