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IF JUSTICE LEAGUE CONVENES, SNYDER CONFIRMED TO DIRECT - Page 2

post #51 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erix View Post

 

I dunno. Jackie Earl Haley, Patrick Wilson, Billy Crudup and even Jeffrey Dean Morgan all did terrific work in the film.

 

Agreed, but I really think these were cases of talent surpassing the material and direction.

 

Compare Akerman in WATCHMEN and Lopez in OUT OF SIGHT. Two actors with mediocre (at best) talent; in one case, her limitations are quite evident especially in contrast to those around her; in other other case, the director manages to both shoot and direct her in such a way that she gives possibly the best performance of her film career.

 

Snyder's not as bad as Lucas, who apparently actively discourages actual acting, but he's no Soderbergh, either.

post #52 of 105

Problem with Snyder is that he is shooting for something beyond his abilities - it'd be one thing if he wanted to be another Michael Bay clone but he clearly wants to make movies that are a little more thoughtful and ambitious. On one hand, you've gotta respect that but on the other, well, you don't get a prize for trying.

 

Still, maybe all he needs is someone like Nolan to act as a mentor and help him focus his efforts (and I'm not saying that just out of some sort of Nolan fanboy-ism but because the buzz on Man of Steel really has been good) so we'll have to wait and see.

post #53 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

 

Agreed, but I really think these were cases of talent surpassing the material and direction.

 

Compare Akerman in WATCHMEN and Lopez in OUT OF SIGHT. Two actors with mediocre (at best) talent; in one case, her limitations are quite evident especially in contrast to those around her; in other other case, the director manages to both shoot and direct her in such a way that she gives possibly the best performance of her film career.

 

Snyder's not as bad as Lucas, who apparently actively discourages actual acting, but he's no Soderbergh, either.


Right... I'll concede that Malin Akerman is not a great actress. It's possible that a great director could pull a terrific performance out of her. But her chops are limited. Fair enough.

 

And I don't know that anyone would argue that Zack Snyder is as good a director as Steven Soderbergh.

 

But you don't need a director that good to make a solid Superman or Justice League movie. You need a workman with a good eye and a solid script to guide him.

post #54 of 105
And if advanced word is to be believed, a superior filmmaker lording over him as a producer.

The Avengers and its impending sequel may have fucked over the Justice League in numerous ways, but if that film is to be then the WB is going to really need Nolan in the mix. Actually, they may as well just forget about Darkseid and go with someone else. The Legion of Doom might be a little too Super Friends, but Thanos is going to ironically make Darkseid look redundant, which is a shame.
post #55 of 105

Here's what they can do if they want to top Thanos...

 

Make the bad guy Braniac and adapt the Panic in the Sky storyline from the early 90s.

 

You're welcome.
 

post #56 of 105
That would work and it would allow at least one Justice League member to have a connection to the villain.
post #57 of 105

They could make Darkseid more of a contender if they took care to integrate the Fourth World stuff into the movies. Thanos is essentially what you get when you get Darkseid out of that context and simply make him a bad guy who does bad things (also, replace a worldview with a fetish). Which works for what Thanos has been used for in the past, but Darkseid has more of a story, and you need to bring that out if you want to differentiate him from Thanos. Hell, you have Apokolips to work with there, and as much as Darkseid wants to wipe everything out so that he can be truly alone, he still weirdly tries to do right by his people, and what that is is nightmarishly skewed.

 

And really, I think Justice League (or World's Finest) could work if you embrace the fact that DC characters are often at their best when representing a set of ideals (which differs from character to character), and as such are really good at delivering a sort of catharsis that you just don't get in very many action movies. Let the Marvel movies be Puccini, Warners should go for Wagner.

post #58 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ambler View Post

I just don't see how putting Superman and Batman (let alone Wonderwoman and Flash) onscreen at the same time isn't going to look completely ridiculous.  Tonally they couldn't be more different.  Batman's cinematic palette has been set since the late 80s, and it's fairly dark and realistic...adding a guy who gets his energy from the sun and can shoot lasers out his eyes while wearing red and blue tights?  

We don't know what NuBatman is going to be like, but I'm sure they'll manage. As I understand it the filmic DCU will have the stylistic consistency of the Marvel films, only more "real world". An aesthetic mesh will likely not be an issue, whether it just outright sucks or not will.
post #59 of 105

I think that - if they use Darkseid - they should adapt The Pact either as the opening to the movie, or as a short before the movie. That would separate him (and the Fourth World) as its own mythology pretty substantially from anything Marvel's done.

post #60 of 105

I simply cannot take a villain (or character) named "Apokolips" seriously. Maybe it works in context on the comic page, but just reading it....it looks either like a second grader's attempt to spell the word or the porn version of it.

 

Either way, it's snicker-worthy and not at all doom-inducing.

post #61 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I simply cannot take a villain (or character) named "Apokolips" seriously.

It's a planet. Darkseid rules it.

post #62 of 105

Seeing any aspect of Kirby's Fourth World on screen would make me giddy beyond belief. 

post #63 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I simply cannot take a villain (or character) named "Apokolips" seriously. Maybe it works in context on the comic page, but just reading it....it looks either like a second grader's attempt to spell the word or the porn version of it.

 

Either way, it's snicker-worthy and not at all doom-inducing.

 

It's in the same spirit of other planet names, like, say, Planet Mongo. Or Frigia. Or Arboria.

post #64 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

It's in the same spirit of other planet names, like, say, Planet Mongo. Or Frigia. Or Arboria.

 

I know it's a YMMV thing, but the spelling just cancels out any seriousness for me. Far more than the above examples, though "Mongo" comes damn close.

post #65 of 105

OK. I love the Fourth World, they're brilliant comics, but you have to understand that the context was WILDLY different in terms of what Kirby was doing. Basically, being as ahead of his time as he was, Kirby had been reading about how superhero comics were "modern mythology", and he decided to make the Fouth World to explore that concept in depth. But he was also seeing it in the context of the time, in which superhero comics were big, bombastic and ridiculous, and--and this is the crucial part--pop culture was a lot sillier, campier, and more unrestrained. Kirby was making these comics at the same time that David Bowie was breaking through by pretending to be a space alien fashion victim, and movies like Barbarella and Danger: Diabolik were the cutting edge of cult cinema, to say nothing of what comics of the time were like. That said, this was riiiight around the time superheroes were starting to style themselves as more SERIOUS and RELEVANT, with absurd stuff like Green Arrow/Green Lantern and slightly less absurd stuff like Harry Osborn becoming an addict in Spider-man. That's the path superhero comics took going forward, but Kirby was playing in a different sandbox. Rather than trying to make superheroes realistic, he went with the Joseph Campbell idea that there was something deeper and more mythic lurking behind these childish stories. So on the surface, he didn't steer clear of the childishness and campiness and imagination; in fact, he embraced it. The characters are literally gods, after all. They would embrace their function in their names. It's the deeper themes and ideas he tried to invest with meaning, and did so a great deal more effectively, to my mind, than most other superhero writers until Alan Moore came along.

 

The original, Kirby-penned Fourth World makes absolutely no pretense at being "realistic" or even "naturalistic". We've gotten used to this in pop culture, the idea that genre movies and TV are always going to stoop to meet us so that we take it seriously. Because heaven forfend any of it seem childish or ridiculous. But Kirby's Fourth World exists unapologetically as a Silver Age comic book, with often hilariously cheesy dialogue, over-the-top characterizations, sweepingly imaginative imagery, and an embrace of weirdness. It works because it's uncompromising. The later attempts to use Darkseid (who admittedly sort of works as a character on his own, even though most other comic writers don't really get the multiple levels Kirby was trying to invest him with and just make him a Super-Big-Bad-Villain) come off as if someone was trying to make a "realistic" Season 3 of Twin Peaks, or a Muppet movie where Kermit was played by a realistic CGI frog. It's missing the point, even aside from being divorced from the original creator's unique sensibility. When you try to drag Darkseid, or any of the other 4th World characters, into the DCU proper and make them firt that sensibility, it often doesn't work. They have to exist in their own skewed reality; take them a few steps further towards "realism" and they fall straight into the uncanny valley.

 

That said, as Chris Sims pointed out in a column a week or two ago, Darkseid is definitely bound up with the DCU, regardless of what Kirby had intended (he wanted the 4th World to be his own standalone project originally). It's just important to remember that Kirby's Darkseid is different from everyone else's Darkseid.

post #66 of 105

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: you want a great Superman-Darkseid relationship? Go watch Superman: The Animated Series as well as Darkseid's appearances in Justice League/JLU.

 

Not only is Michael Ironside PERFECT as the voice, they totally get the mythic stature of him. He's played seriously, but not "realistic".

post #67 of 105

Chris Spider, Forget Darkseid.  I want to see the...Leigon Of DOOM!

post #68 of 105
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Edited by dilla7 - 4/27/13 at 8:33am
post #69 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by duke fleed View Post

Chris Spider, Forget Darkseid.  I want to see the...Leigon Of DOOM!

On that, we agree, Duke. At this point, Marvel's basically drinking DC's cosmic milkshake. Warner's should go for straight up villains versus heroes. Also, if there's on e thing that DC has over Marvel, it's quantity of great villains. They should exploit that.

post #70 of 105

On this project Snyder should have enough babysitters around to not be a total douche. But executive help didn't really do Green Lantern any favors. If this does connect with the Dark Knight trilogy hopefully Nolan can still have some unofficial input. 

post #71 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.S. Randlett View Post

On that, we agree, Duke. At this point, Marvel's basically drinking DC's cosmic milkshake. Warner's should go for straight up villains versus heroes. Also, if there's on e thing that DC has over Marvel, it's quantity of great villains. They should exploit that.

I would say that DC has more "household name" type villains, but most of them are remembered by the general public for comic (comedic) portrayals.  And most of the famous villains are Batman villains.  I'd say general audiences could do without another Joker or Lex Luthor portrayal for a couple of generations.  

 

I would just about kill for a decent Brainiac portrayal.  Heck, I'd even forgive another Lex Luthor apperance if Lex was playing second fiddle to Brainiac...and went through the movie trying to prove his intellectual superiority to the machine.  Lex could be more of a wildcard and a champion for "humanity," VS. the alien demigod (Superman) and the supercomputer.  

post #72 of 105

Lex Luthor still has more potential cinematically than any of these characters, I think. Like Batman, he's a human being driven to far edges of human exceptionalism, but he's evil and wants to challenge the Gods and shit. Do that Lex instead of a smarmy huckster, cast someone like Johnny Depp, and you've got an incredible movie. Main villain or contrasted with Brainiac, whatever. He's got as much potential as the Joker.

 

I like the way this movie is standing astride the entire summer movie season, gloating like a dick. That's either a very good online strategy, or it's so confident they're not afraid to get cocky. Either way, well done, WB.

post #73 of 105

Just get Clancy Brown to play the role in real life with that VOICE!

post #74 of 105

Or Depp dubbed over by Clancy Brown.

post #75 of 105

That would be so weird.

post #76 of 105

The problem with Lex Luthor is that, to date, EVERY SINGLE Superman movie has had either Luthor or a Luthor stand-in (in the case of III) as the A or B villain. It looks like Man of Steel may break this, but he's been a bit overdone as a villain.

post #77 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Grimm View Post

I think that - if they use Darkseid - they should adapt The Pact either as the opening to the movie, or as a short before the movie. That would separate him (and the Fourth World) as its own mythology pretty substantially from anything Marvel's done.

 

Yeah, I could see The Pact as a LotR's type prologue to the main story quite easily.

post #78 of 105

Brainiac is fucking awesome in Superman The Animated Series/Justice League/JLU, chillingly played by veteran voice actor Corey Burton. And his HAL-on-crack motivations make him a formidable foe.

 

Do THAT Brainiac in a live-action Superman or Justice League movie, then we'll talk.

post #79 of 105

Actually, if he's "on" and actually gives a shit? I think Bruce Willis would be a terrific Lex Luthor.

post #80 of 105

Dwayne Johnson is my Lex Luthor of choice.

 

And Josh Brolin as my second choice.

post #81 of 105

Andy Serkis as Gorilla Grodd. 

post #82 of 105

If you can get past the accent, Javier Bardem would make an amazing Lex Luthor.

Nicolas Cage would be fascinating, as well.

Or Larry David.

post #83 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Decade View Post

Or Larry David.

 YES PLEASE!

post #84 of 105

I've heard some Denzel for Luthor suggestions thrown around. I approve.

post #85 of 105

The idea of a white "super-man" fighting an evil black man makes me incredibly uncomfortable.

That said, Lance Reddick would be an inspired pick for Lex Luthor.

post #86 of 105

What's to be uncomfortable? Race has nothing to do with it. Denzel has the presence down flat.

 

The weight to play Luthor as the threat he is to Superman and the charm to trick the public into thinking he's a billionaire with a heart of gold. He would be an awesome Lex.

post #87 of 105

Guys, Billy Zane is perfect for Lex Luthor.

 

Or should I say he would be... inZanely... good!?

post #88 of 105
Billy zane is the man
post #89 of 105

No clip of Billy Zane in Demon Knight, dilla? I'm disappointed. 

post #90 of 105
I'd like for them to go the unconventional route. Tom Hanks as Lex Luthor.
post #91 of 105

Wrong, wrong, wrong!

 

Billy Zane is Egg Head in Nolan's The Dark Knight Bored. Coming July 2018.

post #92 of 105

with Ray Liotta as Louie the Lilac and Nathan Lane as King Tut!

post #93 of 105

Nathan Lane is Aunt Harriet, Sir.

post #94 of 105

Peter Scolari as Mirror Master!

post #95 of 105
It was I that started the Lex casting!

/zips away
post #96 of 105

Brian Cox as Chief O'Hara.

post #97 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Spider View Post

Brainiac is fucking awesome in Superman The Animated Series/Justice League/JLU, chillingly played by veteran voice actor Corey Burton. And his HAL-on-crack motivations make him a formidable foe.

 

Do THAT Brainiac in a live-action Superman or Justice League movie, then we'll talk.

I love Brainiac in any form, but I agree with your praise of the Superman TAS version.  The premiere was of the few Superman TAS episodes I've seen, and I thought the Brainiac portrayal was brilliant.  One of the few welcome adjustments to the Superman mythos, in my opinion, was having Brainiac responsible for tricking (or was it murdering?) the Kryptonians and sending them to their doom.  

post #98 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtomTastic View Post

Guys, Billy Zane is perfect for Lex Luthor.

 

Or should I say he would be... inZanely... good!?

Duke Fleed, are you moonlighting as Atom Tastic?

post #99 of 105

Sorry I know I'm late
Edited by dilla7 - 4/27/13 at 9:17pm
post #100 of 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Prankster View Post

OK. I love the Fourth World, they're brilliant comics, but you have to understand that the context was WILDLY different in terms of what Kirby was doing.

I think if people can accept The Hobbit/LotR movies in terms of what they're doing, they can get behind the Fourth World to at least some extent without turning it into some Grant Morrison "oh, they're superpowered pimps and hoes" thing. It's just that last ten percent of the concept that's the problem, and if Thor can make it to the screen with the Rainbow Bridge becoming the Bifrost, and Bond can make it to the screen as a mild sexual predator instead of a racist, sexist homophobe, then you can do the Fourth World with, say, Big Barda just being 'Barda' and the Black Racer perhaps not having skis.

Also, +1 Denzel Washington as Lex. I mean, Bryan Cranston would just be way too obvious at this point, right?



Right?
Edited by avian - 4/27/13 at 10:24pm
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