The Alien: killing machine or eating machine?

Based on the original idea of it as created by Ridley Scott, Giger et al for the first movie, I'd say to kill. Obviously the Alien is unique in movie creatures, it's not like Jaws where the antagonistic animal's primary instinct is to feed, it has been developed, and, I guess bred to kill, to be used as a weapon. But...

It's still a living, breathing, drooling organism, so no-matter how biomechanical, it must need some kind of sustenance to help it, thus the occasional meal or two. But I can imagine it's been genetically programmed for one reason: to kill. Which is handy, seeing how it does it so efficiently.

My thoughts...

The basic run of the mill alien type drone, is bred to kill and to collect potential incubators. How it makes the call is unknown.

When the alien is incubating, it takes it's nutrition from the host, and continues to live off that energy until it's death. A short life span, yeah, but it is efficient. And it would explain the massive quantities of eggs.

As for Alien 3... I don't know.

Maybe because in Alien3 the host was a dog. So when the Alien was incubating it inherited some canine traits, biting and eating among them.

In the first 2 films, the aliens were all hosted by humans so they behaved differently. If nothing else they werent as animalistic (despite Hudson's funny line) but more intelligent.

its pretty obvious that the alien behaves and even moves like its host. So thats my 2 cents on why the alien was eating people in part 3. After all rembmer what Ripley said: "Ive never seen one move quite like this".

(Could you imagine if an alien were hosted inside a Predator? How much of a badass would that guy be?)

Excellent insightful question. Alien has been on my mind especially as I'm looking at McFarlanes Alien Queen which is phenominal, best figure made by anyone yet. I've been wanting to go back and watch them all again as well.

Good point about the dog genes Phantom. The Alien definitely took on the aspect of the dog which is a scavenger. In the earlier Aliens though they were never shown to have eaten the humans but the way some of them were attacked, even in the first, led me to believe that they weren't concerned about keeping them all alive as hosts. Surely they must eat to sustain such a massive growth rate.

Having spent an inordinate amount of time in the "Alien" universe lately (and trust me, our pain is your gain later this year) my thoughts are that they didn't give the eating too much thought initially.
A lot of work went into the life cycle, but that (eating) was kind of forgotten. Cameron then came in with his ant/wasp colony analogy and kind of gave it a shove.
My impression is that it is all about survival of the species - they kill when threatened and prefer to take hosts when a Queen is present. When a single bug is present, it will reproduce asexually to start the cycle...of course none of this is ever confirmed (deleted sequencs don't count!) so anything we come up here is conjecture...

I personally like the theory that a queen shares a telepathic link with its drones. Notice that when Ripley threatens the eggs in Aliens, she hishes and the drones back off.

The drone acts like an ant, displaying little individuality and is driven solely by its impulse to ensure the survival of the species.

In Alien, it turns a couple of the crew into eggs, possibly in an effort to create a queen. It kills the rest.

In Aliens, it kidnaps and coccoons humans in order to have hosts. The drones act like cannon-fodder, showing no survival instinct.

In Alien 3, it kills the humans because its priority is to protect the unborn queen.

In Alien Resurrection they go back to kidnaping and coccooning humans.

Therefore, its behaviour and presence or lack of individuality relies on whther there's a queen or not.

Hellboy, looks like we posted the same thing at the same time!

Can you confirm if we'll get the Alien 3 work print in the box set?

I have to agree with what mastronikolas and Hellboy wrote - as far as how the depiction of Aliens changed or developed as new movies in the series were generated.

As far as the original movie, the source of the eggs was just not addressed. Once Kane is made a host, you see the Alien life cycle as depicted in that movie - egg/face hugger, to chest burster, to full grown Alien.

And in the original Alien script you have the coccooned Dallas scene. But what is he coccooned for? Where will the egg come from that could possible impregnate him with another Alien, or a Queen? It's not really answered, as far as I know.

And look at the Giger hieroglyphic that shows the Alien life-cycle. Wasn't it just a triangular drawing that shows host with egg? And host with chestburster? And adult Alien? Nothing in this hierogylphic to address the missing portion of the lifecycle.

And for Aliens, I think Cameron took the liberty to fill in this missing info - and the hive / colony philosophy was imbedded into the Alien lifecycle.

Alien 3 evolved things a bit, with the creation of the Dog Alien - indicating that the Alien takes on the characteristics of the host. Facehugger infects a dog, so the resultant adult Alien moves on all fours. And wasn't there an ox impreganated in an early script for Alien 3 - which would have created a different adult Alien?

Bottomline, I don't think Alien considered the Queen or hive as part of the lifecycle. And neither Alien or Aliens addressed the issue of host affecting the resultant Alien.

And as far as the original post - at times, the Alien would kill for food - other times to protect itself or the hive. But mainly, it seems, just to kill.

With all the different creative forces involved in the movies, and the different philosophies employed in the movies to explain the Alien's lifecycle - can there even be a logical, definitive explanation?

I'm kinda in the camp of enjoying the movies for what they are, enjoying the books, enjoying the comics, etc - without trying to piece together what different creators have added or subtracted from Alien lore, or different tacts they may have taken.

The Aliens in one and three weren't Queens, thus had no reason to keep them alive, ie for breedin' purposes.

In Aliens, the mamma needs folks to make babies.

Plus, it's almost common psychology. The aliens in Alien and Alien 3 didn't have a mother to teach them anything. They were both born in an unfimiliar world, where their basic survival instincts kicked in. Plus, even a new born child has hunger.

So, the Aliens aren't that different from us. wink

- Fixxxer

Fixxxer, I think that you're a little off there. I don't think they need the Queen to direct their actions - it is ingrained in them on a genetic level - maintain the survival of the species. There are organisms here on earth that have been known to reproduce asexually when dire need arises. I think they're somewhat like that - no Queen, well, I'm capable of making one - just one...
and deleted scenes are deleted for a reason, sometimes.

The problem with the species is that each filmmaker has added his/her ideas without making them integrate - because it wasn't important to them. Cameron's idea of a hive mentality has been adhered to moreso in AR then in A3. You'll soon see how amazing it was that A3 & AR got made at all...never mind that some stuff doesn't jibe.

it's funny, I've been knee-deep in this stuff for a while now...probably the last thing I want to talk about... wink

Sorry, I can't divulge what's on the set just yet. And nobody else around here better, either...

Everybody has good points. I'd like to add that in Alien the creature got into the food supply. I think the only reason it was killing the people was because it felt threatened, and also liked the hunt.

And the coccooning thing was because the alien was storing food.

Just my two cents...

I think the hunters/drones were definitely born with ingrained primal instincts but it takes a queen to have them act outside of that. The queen has to telepathically override their instinct to kill on sight and direct them as to what to do instead.

I love this thread, however, I have nothing to contribute to it.

You guys made me a happy little geek-girl this morning.

Receiving transmission.

Hello this is Dr. Yann Guilbault, having just finished my diplomat in Xenobilogy and Xenobehavioral sciences at the newly rebuilt science institute at LV-426, I’ll tell you guys what I know, that is not considered confidential, yet.

***Report File 537-A308***

Main characteristic of the Alien brood.

-Insect like creatures.
-Exoskeleton of great resilience and strength.
-Concentrated hydrochloric Acid for blood.
-Extremely dangerous and predator like behavior with all species.
-Sense of hearing normal to below standard.
-Accurate vision probably black and white
-Sense of taste unknown
-Seems to possess some king of echo location or more precisely movement/motion location ability/sense.
-Highly intelligent and is capable to solve basic problems. Some theorize that they have a very high leaning ability this has not yet been conformed it is doubtful.
-Seem to communicate by pheromones, screeches and hisses. Although some speak of telepathic abilities but this has never been proven, and it would be much more probable that indeed all of their main communication be handle by pheromones system, like those of earth bees/ants.
-Seems to an asexual organisms, no insemination required by a second party.
-The reproduction cycle seem to be parasitic oviparous with no obvious insemination.
-Seems to be quite at home in different environmental condition, even under water.
-Seems to avoid fire and even recoil from it.
-The creatures are highly resistant to drastic temperature changes.

The hierarchy of the brood/hive.

Queen.

-Egg layer, (with some speculative combat ability) that lays almost up to an infinite number of eggs.
-Life span is unknown.
-Height is variable with specimen encountered but generally about 4+ meters in height. Length is undetermined as of yet.
-Weight is undetermined.
-Queen can detach herself from egg sack if the colony need to be relocated or if she is under direct attack.
-Several eggs, some think up to half a dozen can still be attached or part of the queen if she detach herself from the egg sack.
-Only one queen seems to be present per hive or brood, we thing this must be pheromonely driven.

Egg/Face hugger hatchling.

-Fixed egg pouch containing usually one undeveloped face hugger. Some theorize that two or three face hugger could be issued from the same eggs, but this would be infrequent or rare at best.
-Height of the cocoon like eggs is about 60-70 cm.
-Maturity of primal egg can be achieved within minutes.
-A face hugger once released from the egg is fully matured. It is very fast, agile and capable of infecting a host in order to lay another egg. This egg will attach itself to the host internal organ deriving food and sustenance from the host. Host survival is very slim a best.
-A face hugger with tail is about 1 meter in length.
-A large tail like asexual reproductive organ is introduced into the host to lay a single egg.
-While a face hugger is "parasiting" a host it will give the host adequate resource to maintain, low but steady life signs. It’s intention are more base on reproduction (asexual reproduction) than killing the host.
-Once a face hugger has infected a host and has laid its egg, it dies.


Face hugger Egg/Chest burster.

-Once the egg is in place development of a "Chest burster" ensues.
-This development stage is rather short 18-28 hours for a drone/warrior, and much longer 24-72 hours for a queen.
-It is theorized that this development course is chosen not at random but by local pheromones. If the pheromones indicated a nearby a healthy nearby queen then the egg will develop into a drone/warrior. It has also been assessed that if the local population would be easily converted to host for the colony that a warrior might emerge even if no queens are present in the area.
-The distance of the pheromones communication is unknown.
-If contact is lost with queen pheromones, more often than not the isolated creature will seek its own survival by occupying a large territory in which it will seek to feed and kill all nearby threats to its survival.

Chest burster/ Drone/Warrior or Queen.

-Chest burster are on the average 30 cm long.
-As previously discussed the growth of the larva/egg into a chest burster seems to be hormonally driven.
-Once a chest burster larval form has reached maturity it will get out of the host is a fashion has to chest bursts out of the host, this usually severely cripples or kills the host body.
-Once liberated this very small creature will grow in size and morph into its final development stage. While doing this it will shed several "snake like" skins. This usually takes about 12-18 hours for a drone/warrior and development time for a queen is unknown.

Drone/Warrior.
- Drone/Warrior are on the average 2 meters in height.
-These are the workers of the hive/brood.
-It is assumed that they are the one responsible for changing the nearby environment of the nest area. Some speculate that Drone/Warrior create some sort of mixture by unknown method (some speculate of some hidden glands) and this mixture is mixed with the acidic saliva and it is used to build the hive. This substance will solidify very quickly. This method is also used to "cocoon" hosts so that they will be easily taken by the face huggers.
-These drone/warrior seem to be very hostile when other creatures invade the nest or hive area.
-They are the ones that build and guard the hive from intruders.
-They are also the ones that capture future host creatures.
-It is speculated that some potentially larger specimen act like royal guard to the queen and that these specialized warriors never leave the queen or nesting area.

Some have said that these Alien are capable of absorbing some of the DNA and that the chest burster in its larval stages may take some of the hosts characteristics, but these are only rumors and no real data has been provided to confirm or deny these hypothesis.

The Aliens are neither a killing machine or an eating machine it is a beautiful species that should be studied further, think of all the things we could learn about it. This beautiful species could indeed probably be controlled/used by mankind if only we could study how different pheromones affect it’s behavior and it communication system.

This is Science Station Hermines on LV-426 signing out.

End of transmission.

Here's a scan I found, of the lifecycle - when I first saw this, it was referred to as an Alien hieroglyphic.

I had referred to it above, thinking that Giger really hadn't considered the cycle past adult Alien - before The Inspector's latest post cleared it up.

<a href="http://cours.cegep-st-jerome.qc.ca/530-gjb-p.l/images/Giger5.jpg" target="_blank">Giger's Alien hieroglyphic</a>

That's pretty funny.

Pheremones or telepathy?

Very cool! I need some Giger furniture.

Furniture like...A CHAIR MADE FROM THE BONES OF HIS DESCEASED WIFE?

Yep. It's true. That Giger's a strange bird...

"And then the Alien kiss the monk's eye..."

Fun thread. Can this become a general-Alien-question thread, or will that earn me the iron hand of STARCHAMBER doom?

I was wondering two things... first, probably due to their origins from Giger art, the xenomorphs are referred to time and time again as biomechanoids. But do we ever see in any of the movies that they actually have any mechanical parts? Twenty-year-old animatronics aside, it has always been my understanding that the aliens are just creatures.... strange ones with acidic blood, yes, but actual animals and not cyborgs.

Which leads into my next question... Fett's post above indicates that he believes the creature to be a bioengineered weapon. Is this ever indicated in the movies? Obviously the derelict craft on LV-426 has a hold full of eggs for a reason, but...

oh, and to answer the topic question... the Alien is neither an eating machine or a killing machine. It's a LOVE machine, and you would NOT want to see what happens if it gets the chance to drag your corpse back to it's cabin in the Virginia woods.

A love machine, huh? Well, it's head is a penis - that wacky Giger! - seriously, it's a penis - look at it closely...upside down & backwards.

The Alien as a bio-engineered weapon - oh yeah, it's a take that many of the filmmakers (including ones who wanted to do a film but didn't) have thought about - everyone bring's up the derelict and it's contents. Something to explore in Alien 5 - if ever?

I personally hope no one ever touches the derelict in a future film. I love the shadowy mystery behind it.

Having said that, I'm sure I've started some weird cosmic karmic wheel that will somehow pop the idea into Paul Anderson's head and now AvP will feature a karate-filled fight scene aboard the ship. Aw Crap indeed.

I would just like to say that I have always loved the Alien series and you guys are pretty stunning with the info, ideas and questions you have brought to this discussion.

I can't wait for the box set.

Are the Aliens referred to as Biomechanoids? I don't remember that. Giger's style of art has definitely been referred to and is bio-mechanical in nature but I don't think any part of the Aliens are mechanical.

A chair made of Gigers dead wifes bones would be freakin wicked. Even if I had to settle for something made of wood it would still be pretty wicked have you seen his pieces? Wow! Sorry to get off topic here but I can't help but think about Gigers art when discussing Alien. What would Alien have been without Giger anyway?

So the Alien is actually a penis? Did you happen to notice this in a drug induced haze or something?

<img src="http://www.hrgiger.com/images/moebel1.jpg" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.cc.gla.ac.uk/courses/science/if/giger.gif" alt="" />

<img src="http://www.eeb.princeton.edu/~juank/images/alien2.jpg" alt="" />

I was just watching the Alien DVD this week, I had a question myself. I wasn't clear if during Scott's track, if the Space Jockey was of the same race as the Aliens?

I'm pretty sure the Space Jockey was of a completely seperate race of beings that totally underestimated the cargo he was carrying. And if we follow what the deleted scenes from Alien suggest, then I think the field of eggs were created out of the former crew of the Derelict craft. The pilot was the first to go.

Just a bit of speculation on my part. Who knows?

If I ever become a criminal mastermind, that'll be my office chair.

They were the race who sent out the warning signal to stay away that attracted the corporation into sending the Nostromo there in the first place so no I don't think they were the same species but since the Alien adapts to it's hosts and carries some of it's genes they look somewhat similar.

I want those chairs for my dining room table. Imagine having the family over for Thanksgiving and everyone sitting in those.

I think I read somwhere a queen laid all those eggs in the derelict, it just wasnt around when Kane and them were there.

No Queen on the derelict...and no one knows what or where the Space Jockey is or comes from - it's never been touched on, except in the comics - and sorry, those don't really count as cannon.
If we ever get an Alien 5 or whatever, mybe they'll come up with something cool...
It is fun to speculate, though.

Since the topic of deleted scenes came up, I just have to ask. Is there more to the scene with the woman getting killed after Yaphet Koto?

Every time I catch the movie on cable that scene bugs me. It's such a strange, sadistic way for the alien to kill her.

Ha ha!
Bad boy...

Very nice is that the actual prop?

I was wanting to rewatch the whole series again lately and this thread got me going. I watched Alien the other night and it was funny you bring up the whole rape sequence becuase every time I watch it that suggestive tail coiling up her leg sticks out at me. For some reason that whole thing just doesn't make sense. They are asexual. They do not mate. So why would that even be a part of their instictual behavior? They have no concept of love making or reproducing that way so they shouldn't have those types of feelings or emotions. Heh, I'm not a dork.

I love everything about Alien the movie down to the cheesy christmas lights they had to use on the bottom of the Nostromo when it lands. The opening title sequence is my absolute favorite of any film and the rest of the opening up to the first breakfast scene was all genious. Those damn birds on the table are probably my favorite props for some reason.

Now for Aliens...

Very intersting BD guess I'll have to squeeze Predator in there as well now. I hadn't noticed any Space Jockey artifacts but that sounds like a completely plausible explanation for everything really. You have the SJ's who had created this Alien species to counterattack the Predator species but they turned on them and before the last member of the crew was killed he/she sent a warning signal detailing the Alien species as a weapon, a pure killing machine which is how Earth became so interested in it and learned what it was and its purpose.

Actually I don't like the sound of that at all. For some reason, and I realize I don't have anything to go on, the SJ came across as a peaceful, intelligent species. I don't know why really but they feel more like scientists to me who had stumbled across the Alien species while exploring.

I don't know to me the Alien and Predators just don't belong in the same movie. Alien to me is art and Predator is a great sci-fi/action Schwarzenegger flick. I'm sure I'm wrong on that.

I just like the fact that this monster is a truly alien thing, unlike all those stupid Star Trek "aliens" that look and sound and think and act like people, except maybe they've got a bump on their nose and, I dunno, spots or something.

And as a genuinely alien, otherworldly thing, we don't really have a clue how it works or how it thinks. We can make guesses, but in the end that's all our knowledge about them amounts to--guesses. And the weird contradictory glimpses of their behavior the movies give us--well, the first 3, anyway; who cares about 4?--pretty much confirm this idea.

Aren't the ankles in that shot actually Harry Dean Stanton's? I think they padded Lambert's death scene with that bit from Brett's. Perhaps because they thought the tail between the legs was more fitting for Lambert, if they indeed were trying to imply something of a sexual nature?

I think it's worth considering that as far as 'Alien Lore' goes, it's very unlikely that this stuff should be looked at the same way you look at, say, Star Wars lore. I doubt there's an Alien Librarian division at FOX, carefully overseeing the franchise in order to make sure it all fits some master plan.

Using an example already brought up, when Monolith was discussing the proposed design for AVP2 with FOX I'm willing to bet it was something along the lines of "people love having different classes in multiplayer, so lets just make up a bunch of different kinds of Aliens!" They cherrypicked some from the movies when they could, and made some of their own up when it was necessary. Not, "Ok Monolith, take a look at our Alien Bible here, which details the entire universe that these things take place in. Feel free to use elements from future sections we plan to introduce, to provide a nice teaser for when we finally use them in a movie."

In a similar vein, I think it's probably a mistake to look to the comics and books. In fact, I'd be willing to say that even the movies don't give you a clear 'canon' to go by. I think FOX ignored the topic altogether and allowed the various creative people to muddy what *could* have been a clear fictional universe.

By the way, I'm not saying that I think every item in Star Wars fits together. Only that the Lucas juggernaught has a group of people who are making the attempt, and it doesn't appear that FOX does. Maybe they don't need to... the rate at which LucasFilm saturates existence with SW gomi probably makes it more necessary for them.

From Bruce:
"I think it's worth considering that as far as 'Alien Lore' goes, it's very unlikely that this stuff should be looked at the same way you look at, say, Star Wars lore. I doubt there's an Alien Librarian division at FOX, carefully overseeing the franchise in order to make sure it all fits some master plan. "

This is true - I wish there was somebody over there in this capacity...

I think most of the Alien lore is probably in the heads of H.R. Giger, Ridley Scott and James Cameron but I agree it should be treated with as much care as the Star Wars lore but unfortunately it hasn't been and has gotten diluted with alot of extraneous BS.

The AvP PC games are great no doubt. I don't think that they should be considered as part of the official history, however, as it's a FPS which needed to be a bit creative with the licenses to flesh it out. One of the most disorienting things in gaming was playing as an Alien for the first time and having the ability to run along walls and ceilings and whatnot. Basically having to throw out the concept of right side up in order to make the most of it.

I can see the SJ's being that way but the opposite was just the way they came across to me the first time I saw it on the big screen and I'd have to stretch it to see it otherwise but that's probably true for anyone.

After watching Aliens last night I can say James Cameron knew how important Ridley Scotts work was on Alien and in many respects parralleled what he had done earlier while infusing his own take on things. Is Aliens the best direct sequel ever made?

I also agree that the Aliens were a highly intelligent species in that they adapted and problem solved very quickly to learn about their environment and overcome obstacles. One of the scenes in Aliens is when the Alien happens upon the cat in the box and instead of either ignoring it as it wasn't a threat or killing it it looked at it closely and cocked its head to the side as if it were examining it.

I could show off too and post a pic of me and my Alien Queen action figure but I won't. wink

Suprising, but Giger probably doesn't have as much of a concept about the Alien as Ridley or Cameron. Remember that the design for the bug was originally artwork that Giger did as part of a series. Scott happened upon the 3 paintings at a time when he was unhappy with the early designs Ron Cobb and others had done. He co-opted the art and convinced Fox to hire Giger.
Giger had no hand in the designs of the Queen in the 2nd movie, only 1 of his designs made it into "Alien3" , and nothing in "AR". The Queen is totally from Cameron - he did all the artwork. So, I think it's fair to say his input into the Alien Universe stops at design of the original creature and realizing Scott's ideas for the lifecycle. Of course, this has been a bone of contention between Fox and Giger for a few years now.

Giger did do the design for the derelict, though, right? That's a pretty big contribution too, imo.