The Alien: killing machine or eating machine? - Page 2

Yes, he did design the Derelict AND the Space Jockey - but under the direction of Ridley Scott. Ridley had a basic concept, and like all good directors, let the guy he hired do his job.
My point is that the creature was originally designed by Giger to function as a piece of erotic/horrific artwork. It was designed before the movie was in pre-production, completely separate. Giger was a hired hand, although a very talented and indispensable hired hand. His peculiar style is a big part in what made the movie a modern classic.

All true Hellboy (and Inspector now that I went back to the post) but I think as the creator, artist behind the Aliens form he has ideas and emotions that went into that design that, as you have pointed out already, made Alien what it was. Of course, Scott and Cameron formed everything else around that and Giger was going off of their input but you don't create something that incredible without having a deeper understanding of what it is you're designing. Imagine Alien 5 and team up Giger, Scott and Cameron collaboratively. It would I'm sure bring back much needed respect for the original concept. That would never happen though I know.

So what are opinions on Alien and Aliens versus Alien 3 and Resurrection?

Floyd- remember that the artwork was created circa 1975-76 - 2 years before the film was even greenlit. So his thoughts on the art are completely different - unrelated to the creature as an "Alien". He was approached in 1978 to work on the film, due to Scott seeing this artwork. His input was then received and used accordingly. An example - his Face-hugger design had an eyeball - not used in the film. So his legacy is an aesthetic one - purely visual - that carried on somewhat through the series. Conceptually, he was just an artist on the project - adding his own unique flavor.
Now, as one Chicagoan to another: Get the fuck outta here with that! wink

Yes, Inspector - Jinx! you owe me a Coke!

Heh, ok got me there.

Maybe it's just me, but I think the less sense the Alien makes, the less we can rationalize it as just another species to be studied like a biology specimen, the cooler and scarier it is.

This is really a great thread ... a shining example of how message boards should be ...

Anyways, I am not nearly as well versed in Alien lore, however, I did sneak into ALIEN back in 1979, and I loved it ... I'm wondering about something I recently learned from these very messages ...

In the first film, the idea of having the alien bite Ripley's head off and speak in her voice was considered as the climax ... ok ... Would the alien be capable of mimicing her voice because it had ingested her head ( ala THE THING ), OR, was it just highly intelligent and able to speak because it ( perhaps ) overheard her / the crew speaking, OR, because it had grown in Kane and picked it up there ... ???

.. gotta go back and watch these films ... It's been a long time

Ok, here are my thoughts on Giger and the creature design. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to pick a fight, I just think anything to do with Giger qualifies as an interesting topic. I'm also not talking about elements like the derelict that did not already exist in Giger's art beforehand.

If I remember correctly (I'm at work and not really able to surf erotic horror art), the original designs were VERY similar to what ended up as the Alien, facehugger, whatever. Sure, details like the facehugger eye, the large erect member from the 'Meister und.." creature, etc, were changed, but for the most part what is in the movies is what was in the art.

Now, Giger didn't pull that stuff out of thin air. If you spend any time digging through his work, you know that he understands the human psyche and knows what buttons to push to make you uncomfortable. I mean, Christ, it would take napalm to burn the image of the rat strapon out of my brain. But anyway, I think that he had very deliberate goals with those designs. Ridley, a tremendous artist himself, recognized the effect Giger achieved with the Alien, et. al., and happened to have a great application for them handy. He hired Giger, they made relatively minor modifications of the stuff to work in it's new context, and a star was born.

But I still think this is kind of a chicken/egg thing, and the credit for the fear induced by the Alien creature should probably rest a lot more with Giger's ability to turn people's fears into images. So many wonderful things have sprung fully formed from that majestic cranium Ridley Scott has sitting on top of his neck that I think it's possible to sometimes give credit elsewhere.

I'm just talking the look, here, btw... movement, sound, lighting, all that contributed too. But if the original monster was a yellow sock puppet with big blue googly eyes, then all the great foley and cinematography in the world wouldn't have made a bit of difference.

Bruce - a nice re-summation of my point.

Ridley "co-opted" Giger's design - which means he recognized the beautiful horror in it, and knew that it was something no one had ever seen before. Now, the difference is this: Scott actually hired Giger to further extrapolate on his original art for the purposes of film design. Most Hollywood types would have just hired somebody to copy Giger's designs - happens every day. And it happened to Giger with the later films, in fact. Scott was smart enough to go to the source. Of course, changes were made - that's part of the process. I recently worked on "Hellboy", and del Toro did the same thing with that character's creator - Mike Mignola. Mike was instrumental in the process, but it is ultimately del Toro's adaptation of "Hellboy".
The Inspector & I were in no way diminishing the impact Giger's designs had on the franchise - we were simply stating that his input was on a purely visual level - he did no work on the script, and was there only to realize Scott and O'Bannon's vision.
I've been involved in the new "Alien Quad..." DVD set for a while now, and you'll get an amazing insight on the making of these films and the personalities involved when it comes out...

Hellboy, I'm looking forward to the Quad box for sure. Dunno which kid I'm going to have to not feed in order to afford it, but bring it on.

[quote]The Inspector:
I am sure that O'Bannon would agree with you wholeheartedly.

***

It seems to me that the first Alien film was a rare and wonderful joint effort from three very talented guys. However, the question I would ask is how would Alien have turned out as a film if any one of those three talents were not involved with it's production?

While O'Bannon's script was good and Scott's direction excellent, I think Giger's contribution was the least likely to be produced by anyone else. Now that is not to say that someone else could not have come up with a damn fine alien creature but I think Giger's alien design is one of the finest monsters ever put on screen.

I've seen many films since 1979 that have been directed and/or written as well as Alien (although Scott and O'Bannon did tremendous jobs), but in my opinion there hasn't been a better creature design since then.

Good points by all! (I especially like the Cthulu Mythos angle - we'll have to ask Mr. Scott about that...)

I agree that the first film was a wonderful conjuction of unique talents working on all 8 cylinders.
It's going to be great to see it on th big screen again.

Hell yeah, great opinions by everyone! This is the best damn Alien thread ever!

Seriously though I've been really thinking about these comments and I see what Hellboy and Inspector are saying even though I'm not sure why it came about anymore. Giger had an immense, profound impact on the movie but Ridley put it all together and made it real. I still do think that Giger would have alot of ideas and explanations but they might not really jive with what Ridleys plan was. Imagine if Giger had also written and directed the movie it would probably have gone down as one of the freakiest movies ever made and be nothing like it is. Still if I was ever tasked with understanding the Alien lore and becoming an expert on it I'd have to talk to Giger but whatever Ridley contradicted I have to go with his views.

Did that make any damn sense?

Inspector, according to 2 posters over in the "5 Horror Films That You Want On DVD" thread. this was the ending in the original script ... I'd never heard about it until the other day ... That would have been great IMHO

Species... now THERE is a thread I could get into!

Giger is actually a lot less weird than his art might make you think and a pretty rational guy:

He gave the alien that toothy tongue because he wanted a reason for the creature to have such a long head.

He gave it those spikes on the back to break the human form and help sell that this was a space monster and not just a guy in a suit.

I don't buy that. I've seen alot of his art besides what is seen in Alien and that is out there. That's not a bad thing. I'm sure towards other people he's as rational as anyone but in his head he's about as freaky as they come. I love it.

He actually gets it from his nightmares. He is a solid, normal guy, but he reads lots of Freud and stuff, and then paints what he sees in his dreams and nightmares.

Wasn't this covered on page 1, when someone else asked a similar question? I believe that the answer was... there's no way to tell.

No way, that is, until Paul Anderson's Aliens v. Predator comes out. During the long kung fu fight on board the derelict on LV-426 between three Predators and some new Alien hybrids (the hosts were human ninjas, and the Aliens therefore were born with extreme martial arts abilities and little red headbands), one Alien does a flying side-kick and smashes a Predator through a wall. While the techno music thumps, the camera pauses on the Predator groggily shaking his head and then does a quick smash-zoom past him into the room, where we see a floating hologram of.. the Earth. This hologram endlessly loops, showing a fleet of derelict-shaped ships disgorging their cargo of eggs down on the helpless humans. This revelation is only onscreen briefly, though, because Paul Anderson is nothing if not Mr. Light Touch. We quickly return to the kung fu fight, which now has escalated because one of the Aliens pulled out a facehugger cannon and started hosing down the Predators with skittering death.

Bruce- do not give these folks any ideas. Please. You never know what will end up in a script these days...

"A face-hugger cannon? I can use that..."

AAAARRRGGGHHH!

In it's original incarnation in Alien, according to Mr Ridley Scott, the alien is definitely a weapon, bred or manufactured, possibly by the Space Jockey's race. He talks about it in the DVD commentary (which is fucking great), and also talks about how he'd like to do another where he goes back to the home planet and takes a look at their place and organization. That'd be rad.

Hellboy, at this point we're just dancin' in the ashes of this franchise. Or do you actually think Fox will surprise us someday with their A5lien concept and Anderson will surprise us with AvP?

And I DOUBLE DARE someone to actually write in a facehugger cannon. C'mon, sissies, let's see you do it!

Bruce - I believe that AZ sun finally got to you. wink

Expect "AvsP" in the near-ish future if everything continues as is...

"Alien 5". Well, you never know. Let's see how the "Alien" re-release does this October...

It is going to be really interesting to see how well the Quadrilogy sells. Hopefully we can get past the "I don't want to buy it again" stigma. Who knows? I am sure the amount of potential purchasers has multiplied numerous times since the heyday of the original set. There could be a very big potential market for this thing.

I actually watched Aliens again last weekend, as it was on at 3am just as I got home from a club, and I've been known in the past to not be its biggest fan, despite growing up on it, and well, what I really want to say is, fuck all that.

This movie is fucking great.

I still prefer Alien, partially because I'm a Ridley Scott whore and I love the way it is a haunted house movie in space, but Aliens really speaks to me as a beautiful movie. I think my favourite scene is the final one, where Ripley puts Newt into the capsule, and there's that awesome blue-tinted dissolve to them sleeping. Just great. I loved the family aspect too, which is why I was miffed when Alien 3 kinda killed all that off (literally).

However, I do wish I had the original cut. I remember Dre (Dellamorte, not Dr) going through it once and he did it way more eloquently than I could, explaining why he preferred the theatrical, which is why I'm clamoring for Hellboy and Charlie's box (unless they're one in the same wink ).

Anyway, this movie rules. God, it's great to be a film lover.

Alien 5 is still a slight possibility if Ridley or Cameron decide to do it. Anderson has only changed his mind about a project once. He dropped out of the RE directors chair to concentrate on AvsP. All the other projects that you are thinking of were films he was only involved in as a producer. He snatched up several video game properties that he intended to produce.

First off - no, I'm not Charles de Lauzirika. But I'm flattered. There's so many talented people working on the box, the least of which is me.

Angelus - "In Production" means actual work and filming is happening. This does not describe "AvsP".
What does actually describe it's status is "In Development". The next step is "In Active Development" which will probably happen soon, if everything happens as it's supposed to. It's pretty close...so, don't be so authoritative sitting in the U.K.

Fett - didn't you think I was del Toro at one point? Whitehead told me that, I think.

I really wish he wouldn't give all our pillow talk away.

I did at one point, I think when Nick et al met Mr Del Toro. I guess it'd be kind of an obvious name, though.

Why do people keep talking about an Alien 5 as if Scott, Cameron, Giger, and Weaver have some say in whether it gets made? Isn't it actually correct to say that it's completely up to the suits at Fox, and the series' previous notable contributors have fuck-all input in that particular decision (other than if Fox had a script with Ripley in it)?

Obviously it'd be cool if Scott or Cameron were involved (although personally I think there is zero chance that they would officially collaborate, another thing that is endlessly suggested), but it seems like a major long shot to me. Same for Giger, and personally I wouldn't miss Ripley one bit if she wasn't in a fifth movie.

Anyway... does it mystify anyone else that Fox isn't milking this franchise for more movies? I'm not saying that it's a bad thing that they don't jump at every script and throw a bunch of CG bugs and WB fresh faces up every 2.5 years, but it just seems weird. And I'd think that at this point, CG bugs have got to be getting close to being cheap enough to produce that you could make an Alien TV series.

Damn, time to rewatch these movies. Wish I hadn't sold AvP2 off.

They are basically the only reason Fox would greenlight a big budget Alien sequel unless the Quadrilogy sells a record number of copies. Scott and Cameron are basically powerful enough and have a strong enough track record to have some pull in Hollywood. Fox isn't that eager to make another sequel after the lackluster performance of 3 and Res.

They are contractually obligated to keep their mouths shut about a lot of the specifics.

I'm guessing you'd be singing a different song if you were the one fronting at least a hundred grand to produce an expensive box set for a series of movies that have already had one expensive box set. At that point you'd be mighty nervous if a feature was originally promised and then had to be recanted on, causing the entire internerd to explode in pudgy-fisted hate directed at the product you were hoping to make money on.

The two are kinda inseperable. I mean, Aliens don't exactly go out to eat at a restaurant, so I figure they eat what they kil. It's like asking "Fish: swimming machine or water-breather?"

I am all over this box set when it comes out and it'll go right next to my Alien Legacy box set. I have no problem getting another if there are some additional extras or even just a cool new box design would sell me. Do you guys have Giger designing the box? Heh, that'd be freakin wild.

BD, wow! That's some really great stuff you got going on there even though I still disagree with your insistence that the SJ's created the Alien. Maybe I need to listen to the commentary again but how can my gut instinct be so wrong.

Also BD just some useless Pink Floyd trivia that you may know but others may not. When you wrote

by the way which ones Pink?

some dumbass label exec actually asked them that. How can executives in both the music and movie business be such complete morons? No wonder the Alien franchise went to shit! I watched Alien 3 again the other night and realized then that there isn't any point in continuing an Alien discussion beyond 'Aliens'. It just gets real ugly, real fast after that.

I hate to bring this up in this thread but it seems like the best place for it right now. Does anyone have any idea how much thge new box is goin g to cost? I'm a little worried that people will be tuned off at the idea of spending a couple hundred bucks on this. Hell, i'm ahuge fan with out any of the films on DVD and I can't see myself paying more then hundred for it.

I hope it's not $200 but I'd probably still get it eventually even at that kind of price. I think a hook for me and alot of people as is apparent by this thread would be if they had alot of extras regarding Giger. Alien fans love the work Giger did and most believe he was integral so if they included alot of extras on Giger like samples of all of his work on ALien plus selections of his other work and a nicely done bigraphy with a really long Giger interview/commentary I think it'd sell no matter what. I know I'd easily pay more for some Giger lovin!

I guess to me it all boils down to exactely how good the extras are and would they be worth it to me. If they'd just give us something to go on it'd sure be easier to think about.... wink

Angelus - you're a swell chap, but you know nothing about how the business works.

Yeah, it's just a DVD - but it is a source of revenue - tremendous revenue - for the Studio, and they take it very seriously. Paperwork for legal clearances alone would boggle your mind. Working on these things require delicacy - it's incredible.

Andrew - it lists for $150.00 last I heard...

As for details on the set, legally I can't say much. I like my job, and I'd like to keep it for a while.
As soon as I can say something, I promise you'll hear it on The Corner first.

I hope that means a $99 street price.

I can't fathom spending over $100 for a boxset, even if this version shows an alien biting off Ripley's head and then reciting Keats in her voice while speaking in pig latin and shooting a face hugger cannon at Wynona Ryder.

OK, maybe then I would pay $150. Damn.

I'd pay 150 if it had a stills-gallery type thing with the complete set of the ALIENS: BOOK 1 & 2 Dark Horse Comics.

And not the ones changed continuity-wise to align with Alien 3.

I'd settle for confirmation that Fox is proceeding with an AvP3. I'd drop the $150 just to celebrate that.

Judging from the quantity of alien excreta we see in all of these movies – none, [and in my best Ash 'tone'] 'I think it's safe to assume that it isn't a crapping machine'

In reality, it is quite obvious that the optimal method of combating this creature is to allow it to gorge itself on an endless supply of Hudson quarter-pounders, whereupon at some point it will ... burst.