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Better Call Saul - Page 37

post #1801 of 1877

 

That Kim line raised a little red flag, but ignored it.  But now that you mention it, it's making more and more sense.  Jimmy getting increasingly beholden to drug dealers to help Kim, and once she's inevitably gone, so is Jimmy.

post #1802 of 1877

Ohh god the image of a dead Kim with a needle in her arm fucking haunts me already.

post #1803 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

According to an interview with McKean it's not a fakeout, Chuck's dead

 

Heh, it never stops amusing me that people will watch a character clearly killed, and immediately argue, "We didn't see the flesh burn away from his bones! Where were the screams of agony as the fire slowly consumes him and his body falls apart! HE'S NOT DEAD!"

 

I mean, there are times when it's right to be suspicious of an implied death. But when it's a character the show doesn't -need-, at the end of an arc that artistically seems to lead to death, why be suspicious? Especially when you're watching a prequel to a show where said character is conspicuously not present...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

 

I wouldn't necessarily want either for a partner, or employee, or attorney (my heart goes out to Kim and Howard the most in all this). 

 

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

post #1804 of 1877

I think he still has the potential to become a nemesis for Jimmy, should he discover how Jimmy was (in a roundabout way) responsible for Chuck's death. Howard and Chuck may not have parted on the best of terms but they were still work partners for a very long time, and their separation was essentially caused by Jimmy, after all.

post #1805 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

 

His arc seems fairly well concluded.  Other than perhaps some Sandpiper related issues, we've come full circle with Howard and there's nothing left to explore.

 

It came a season too late in my mind, but the Chuck/HMM storylines were really magnificently tied up.  

post #1806 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post

 

 

It's pretty amazing that Howard has become one of the more sympathetic characters on the show. The only worrisome part of the finale is that his character doesn't seem to have a role in the show going forward.

 

 

Patrick Fabian has really done some incredible work to make Howard into an actual person, not that it's the type that gets recognized by awards and such.

post #1807 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farsight View Post
 

 

Heh, it never stops amusing me that people will watch a character clearly killed, and immediately argue, "We didn't see the flesh burn away from his bones! Where were the screams of agony as the fire slowly consumes him and his body falls apart! HE'S NOT DEAD!"

 

I mean, there are times when it's right to be suspicious of an implied death. But when it's a character the show doesn't -need-, at the end of an arc that artistically seems to lead to death, why be suspicious? Especially when you're watching a prequel to a show where said character is conspicuously not present...

 

I can sort of see why people would be suspicious given the size of the final frame and the way it cuts just as the fire starts spreading - I wasn't 100% sure myself - but it definitely felt like the right time to tie up Chuck's arc.

post #1808 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

 

My feeling was that Chuck's delay in answering the door was so he could turn on some lights and the record player just to fuck with Jimmy and and lend weight to whatever he decided to tell him. He then promptly loses his shit after Jimmy leaves.

 

And Jimmy's regrets aren't just lip service - when it finally dawns on him what he'd done to the old lady, he makes amends, to his own detriment.

 

Chuck is bitter and cruel.

Jimmy is a lying schemer, but still has a soul.

 

I don't know, the way it played out with Jimmy having to be read the riot act before he even tried making amends (even if it did end with self-sacrifice) seemed more like he was trying to prove Chuck wrong about himself rather than anything else. Not to say he didn't feel guilty, but if he'd never spoken to Chuck, he would've gotten over it, taken the money and run.

post #1809 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post

Ohh god the image of a dead Kim with a needle in her arm fucking haunts me already.

Bastard!

I was just about to watch the finale when I skimmed the Chud new posts page on my phone and your post came up in it's entirety. So I spent the entire show waiting for Kim's trip to Blockbuster for her favourite childhood films and perfect chip eating to end up with her killing herself with an overdose, notwithstanding the fact I could imagine how that would work in context. I even talked to myself in a mid-episode piss break debating how it could possibly work without being the kind of cheat I'd stop watching the show over.

And to make matters worse I was so fixated on the apparently spoiled ending that I wasn't really engaged on Chucks story and so spent a good few minutes at the end completely failing to process what had actually happened.

Bastard!

PS totally not your fault.

PPS I'm guessing we get the final fall next season with Kim orbiting him as he falls until such time as she has to bug out and his turn is complete.
post #1810 of 1877
Thread Starter 

I'm guessing I'm not the first person on the web to make this connection, but that montage of Chuck destroying his house reminded me heavily of the ending to THE CONVERSATION.  

 

McKean did great work on this show.  His performance evoked a lot of empathy for Chuck that made him a maddeningly complicated person to react to.  While I didn't know he'd go out exactly this way, his fate felt inevitable.  I think the season's biggest surprise for me was that Kim and Jimmy's relationship not only survived it, but seems to have been emboldened.

post #1811 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

I'm guessing I'm not the first person on the web to make this connection, but that montage of Chuck destroying his house reminded me heavily of the ending to THE CONVERSATION. 

As that's one of my favorite movies, I made that connection, as well.  I have to think it wasn't totally unintentional.

post #1812 of 1877

Given what a classic movie buff they've made Jimmy over the years, there's no way The Conversation wasn't explicitly name-dropped during production.

post #1813 of 1877
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I haven't listened to the insider podcast yet but I'll be surprised if it wasn't an acknowledged reference.

post #1814 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by jhp1608 View Post


Bastard!

I was just about to watch the finale when I skimmed the Chud new posts page on my phone and your post came up in it's entirety. So I spent the entire show waiting for Kim's trip to Blockbuster for her favourite childhood films and perfect chip eating to end up with her killing herself with an overdose, notwithstanding the fact I could imagine how that would work in context. I even talked to myself in a mid-episode piss break debating how it could possibly work without being the kind of cheat I'd stop watching the show over.

And to make matters worse I was so fixated on the apparently spoiled ending that I wasn't really engaged on Chucks story and so spent a good few minutes at the end completely failing to process what had actually happened.

Bastard!

PS totally not your fault.

PPS I'm guessing we get the final fall next season with Kim orbiting him as he falls until such time as she has to bug out and his turn is complete.

Sorry.....

post #1815 of 1877

Remember, folks, that this show has used plenty of flashbacks (including last night), so there's no reason to think we'll never see Chuck again.

post #1816 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

Remember, folks, that this show has used plenty of flashbacks (including last night), so there's no reason to think we'll never see Chuck again.

He said he would be back in flashbacks in an interview.

post #1817 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post
 

Remember, folks, that this show has used plenty of flashbacks (including last night), so there's no reason to think we'll never see Chuck again.

 

Heh, I'm already anticipating sites running set photos and people screaming, "See! I told you he's not dead!"

 

Heck, even after a flashback airs, there'd probably be people claiming that.

post #1818 of 1877

Chuck's death is the final straw that will cause Jimmy to lose Kim. In regards to her accident, she said "I am an adult, I make my own choices".

 

She also chose to represent Jimmy against Chuck and was party to the fake out that proves to be Chuck's undoing. 

 

Also telling is the To Kill a Mockingbird bit, Kim wants to be a good person, she will realize that she cannot be one with Jimmy.

 

I love that this show is so hard on Jimmy, I tire of people with 'good hearts' and 'good intentions' who do inane self righteous shit and then cry about the fallout later.  This show continues to condemn the personalities of both brothers and they both deserve it. 

post #1819 of 1877
Thread Starter 

After being good enough to confirm THE CONVERSATION reference on our behalf, Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould address the still pending renewal:

 

Quote:

We know you're not ending the series here. We know the show does well for AMC. What is the hold-up on the official renewal for a fourth season?

 

Gilligan: Honestly, it's obviously not a secret that Zack Van Amburg and Jamie Erlicht left Sony TV and there's just a little bit of reorganizing going at Sony, but the ship, there's still folks at the tiller and and it's just a matter of  … Who the f--- knows? (Laughs.) It's gonna be fine. The timing was a bit unfortunate in that there's a little bit of stuff up in the air over at Sony, but it'll all get worked out. A couple of good guys left Sony, but there's a lot of good people still at Sony and it'll all get worked out. We're going forward with the certainty that there is gonna be more and it's just a matter of logistics as to when, exactly, it gets going. We're not worried. I say that having absolutely been worried in the past. I'm worried at all right now. We're gonna forward. There will be a season four. The only question is when will it go on air.

 

Gould: I think we feel very supported by Sony and by AMC. 

 

Gilligan: And that's the important part. 

 

Gould: We now have a 10-year relationship with these two companies, which is something so special and rare in show business. There's been definitely some folks coming and going and anyone who reads the trades can figure that out, but I think we feel really good about where we are. It's just a matter of time.

 

Gilligan: In years past, it was often a matter of "if." This year it's not a matter of "if," it's just a matter of when. Our blood pressure is pretty low here, relatively speaking. Certainly compared to previous seasons of Breaking Bad.

 

I hope Jonathan Banks and Mark Margolis aren't looking to retire anytime soon.

post #1820 of 1877

It's going to be a real shame not to see Mark Margolis continuing to depict how terrifying Hector could be before his stroke. I loved his burst of righteous anger just before he collapsed.

post #1821 of 1877
Thread Starter 

His introductory scene gets re-watched a lot by me.  I love seeing him do his Vito Corleone routine on Mike, where the threat is totally there under the surface but he's wrapping it up in that avuncular, even doddering "I'm looking out for everybody" attitude.  

 

 

Later, of course, we see him in his element:

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind Season 4 showing the first of Gus's routine visits to Hector in the nursing home.

post #1822 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't mind Season 4 showing the first of Gus's routine visits to Hector in the nursing home.

I think we're still a while away from Hector in the nursing home. I don't believe he ends up there until after Tuco's death during the Breaking Bad years.

post #1823 of 1877
Thread Starter 
True, he was introduced under Tuco's care, but I think Tuco had only just gotten out of prison. I suppose the cousins could have been his caretakers before that.
post #1824 of 1877

Interesting that Gus probably saved Hector's life, who then ends up being the "object" of his demise. Nacho's fate strikes me as maybe the most interesting questions that still remains unanswered. I know people point to Saul yelling out his name when he's kidnapped by Walt and Jessie but I'm not convinced its the same Nacho. 

 

As for Kim, I hadn't considered that she becomes an addict. I was thinking more that she just flat out leaves Jimmy and New Mexico behind. She says something that she's only gotten like 6 hours of sleep, then cancels all her appointments, then goes to Blockbuster and gets a ton of DVDs. Maybe she gives up on the law altogether and tells Jimmy that she wants to put it all behind her and makes Jimmy swear that he won't stop her or go looking for her. Consequently, Jimmy sees he's  lost everyone he cares about and "Saul Goodman" is born. 

post #1825 of 1877

Just because Ignacio was the first name that came to mind when he was groping for someone who might have the ability and desire to put a hit out doesn't necessarily mean that Nacho is sitll alive.  At most, it would mean that if died, Saul didn't hear about it.  And there's ways to massage around that too, if you really wanted to.

post #1826 of 1877

Yeah, Saul and Nacho don't really run in the same circles, and people who whack other people don't regularly send out newsletters about it. Mike ends up as Saul's main link to that world, and Mike's not exactly a chatty Cathy.

 

We shouldn't read too much into that one line from BB.

post #1827 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by History Buff View Post
 

Interesting that Gus probably saved Hector's life, who then ends up being the "object" of his demise. Nacho's fate strikes me as maybe the most interesting questions that still remains unanswered. I know people point to Saul yelling out his name when he's kidnapped by Walt and Jessie but I'm not convinced its the same Nacho. 

 

As for Kim, I hadn't considered that she becomes an addict. I was thinking more that she just flat out leaves Jimmy and New Mexico behind. She says something that she's only gotten like 6 hours of sleep, then cancels all her appointments, then goes to Blockbuster and gets a ton of DVDs. Maybe she gives up on the law altogether and tells Jimmy that she wants to put it all behind her and makes Jimmy swear that he won't stop her or go looking for her. Consequently, Jimmy sees he's  lost everyone he cares about and "Saul Goodman" is born. 

nice idea, but I don't think that will be Kim's path, Jimmy would pursue and try to 'save' her. Plus at this point, I don't think a show would ultimately portray the female lead as 'weak'. Ultimately Chuck's fate will make her leave Jimmy out of disgust for her own role in that. Kim has to reject Jimmy or die for Saul to come about. 

post #1828 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3nnui View Post
 

nice idea, but I don't think that will be Kim's path, Jimmy would pursue and try to 'save' her. Plus at this point, I don't think a show would ultimately portray the female lead as 'weak'. Ultimately Chuck's fate will make her leave Jimmy out of disgust for her own role in that. Kim has to reject Jimmy or die for Saul to come about. 

That's probably true.

post #1829 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

Just because Ignacio was the first name that came to mind when he was groping for someone who might have the ability and desire to put a hit out doesn't necessarily mean that Nacho is sitll alive.  At most, it would mean that if died, Saul didn't hear about it.  And there's ways to massage around that too, if you really wanted to.


BB happens about 5 years from this current season so for Nacho's name to still be in Saul's head (as opposed to being some guy he knew waaaay in the past and that he has no reason to believe the shooter would recognise), it makes sense that they'd have had recent dealings. Obviously there's ways to work around it but given the meticulousness with which these guys work and the way they tie things together, I'm willing to bet Nacho's good. The only other possibility, I guess, is that it's a very deliberate red herring.

post #1830 of 1877

Or he knows two guys named Ignacio.

post #1831 of 1877

I agree with Evi that it suggest that Nacho probably gets out of this show alive, but as avian points out it wouldn't exactly create a plothole if he died.

post #1832 of 1877
I'm pretty sure Michael Mando said he was told that Saul was referring to him when he said "Ignacio". But Schwartz is right, he could be killed by Gus and Jimmy / Saul wouldn't know.
post #1833 of 1877

Officially renewed for Season 4.

post #1834 of 1877
Thread Starter 
Awesome.
post #1835 of 1877

Crazy timing. I woke up in the middle of the night just last night in a panic because I has a dream that it was canceled.

post #1836 of 1877
Thread Starter 

Someone on Reddit pointed out that during one of Hank's briefing scenes at the beginning of Breaking Bad, a photograph of Krazy-8's mugshot with a booking date of 10/13/03 is shown.  We're in 2003 on this show now.  If we get to see Krazy-8's arrest, they can plant the seeds for his turning informant for the DEA.  Maybe even a Hank cameo.

post #1837 of 1877

Finally caught up with this season. It's great!

 

I'd go all in on Walt and Jesse showing up at some point now. Probably the final season.

post #1838 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post
 

Finally caught up with this season. It's great!

 

I'd go all in on Walt and Jesse showing up at some point now. Probably the final season.

I could see Jesse in the last season of they do some stuff that takes place after Breaking Bad. I would love to find out Jesse found some happiness somewhere.

post #1839 of 1877
Thread Starter 

I'll be curious to see if Hamlin comes back.  The character and HHM as a whole don't need to factor into this story anymore, but there are a lot of ways Chuck's death can be reacted to.  Howard and Jimmy might blame themselves or each other for how he went out.  We've seen how destructive Jimmy can be unintentionally, but when he's being deliberately vindictive (the insurance office) he really goes scorched earth.  If he decides the firm is responsible for Chuck's demise, I can imagine a scenario where Jimmy razes HHM to the ground after all.  And if he inherits his brother's ability to hold a grudge, that would certainly be a path Kim wouldn't follow him on.

post #1840 of 1877
I'm assuming there's paperwork that HHM is buying out Chuck. Would that mean that his next living relative inherits the full amount of the buyout?
post #1841 of 1877
Thread Starter 

We see Howard give Chuck the check, so it may have already been deposited.  Who gets Chuck's wealth would be dictated by his will (since I'm sure he's got one), and it would be ironic yet plausible if Chuck leaves everything to the firm he built.

post #1842 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post

We see Howard give Chuck the check, so it may have already been deposited.  Who gets Chuck's wealth would be dictated by his will (since I'm sure he's got one), and it would be ironic yet plausible if Chuck leaves everything to the firm he built.

This is also complicated by the fact Howard was paying Chuck out of his own pocket in several installments, so I'm not sure what documentation exists and how that will work since Jimmy is his last living relative. Though it wouldn't surprise me for Chuck's ex-wife to still be his beneficiary either.
post #1843 of 1877

I'm willing to bet that Chuck will have revised his will after his 'condition' started, which will give Jimmy grounds to contest it based on competency.

post #1844 of 1877

Chuck would've given everything to his ex. 

 

Actually, Chuck's the type of guy who would have a will that lists the order of inheritance as, "Every living human, in alphabetical order, except Jimmy McGill, who is last."

post #1845 of 1877

Chuck may have will-related cards yet to play. He's shitty enough to have killed himself with a Hamilton-esque revenge plan from the afterlife in place.

post #1846 of 1877
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatherDude View Post
 

I'll be curious to see if Hamlin comes back. 

 

Gould and Gilligan and everyone else love Patrick Fabian. Hamlin has become a great character. I'd be surprised if he's not around next season.

post #1847 of 1877

Hamlin will definitely be back, his just disappearing from the show altogether would be bizarre.

post #1848 of 1877
Plus , now with Chuck out of the picture I'm pretty sure Howard will play a significant role in what ends happening with Kim.
post #1849 of 1877

Howard has emerged as one of the more interesting characters on the show. I'm certain we'll see more of him. 

post #1850 of 1877

I think the next spin-off show should be called Here's Howard

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