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Marvel / Netflix "The Defenders" Thread - Page 13

post #601 of 785
Having not watched Season 1 of Iron Fist, I haven't had time to get sick of the character, but I definitely picked up on the idea of him being so isolated and highly specialized that working with the team was what he needed in order to start his next stage of growth as a character. There's a story within the margins, where teaming up at this exact moment in each character's lives might be a breakthrough that they need right now, and I'm genuinely curious to go back and watch the shows that I missed so that I can see the groundwork they put down.
post #602 of 785

hey, remember when Elektra was kind of a fun character?

 

Also..hahahhah God it's so weird when Wutang Clan's "Protect your neck" inexplicable plays in the background. Because why not I guess?

post #603 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post
 

EDIT:  As to the Hand's resurrection, I'm purely bucking for a no-prize here, but maybe the more resurrections you've had, the more of "The Substance" it takes, but resurrecting/activating a "Black Sky" takes a whole lot more still.  So basically resurrecting random Ninja Mook #7 who's only died once takes a gram, resurrecting Alexandra or Madame Gao or the other "Fingers" might take a Kilo or two or three, and resurrecting Elektra took a hundred kilos (but really, if it were a matter of such diminishing returns I imagine they'd have spelled it out at some point).

 

Where it gets even more confusing is when you factor in Harold Meachum from Iron Fist, who self-resurrected without any outside influence.  If you can self-resurrect after you've been resurrected once....why are the Fingers so worried about dying?


Yeah, as I said above, I think Danny worked better in the ensemble than as the lead of his own series.  In the former, he's an amusingly naive young man that plays off of the more jaded personalities around him quite well (but also provides a degree of idealism that the others lack).  In the latter I can easily see why it becomes annoying and tiresome, and even as someone that bought in to where they were going with Danny's man-child portrayal it still got a bit thick for me by the end of the series.

So I have only watched the first 5 episodes but what makes the black sky so powerful? Like ok she can fight well and everything but what else? And why isn't Luke the answer to beating her? Because for all her fighting abilities her swords can't kill him. Again maybe the next 3 episodes make everything crystal clear but so far I don't get why she is so dangerous.

post #604 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 

hey, remember when Elektra was kind of a fun character?

 

I don't actually. She was a drag on DD season 2, and she's a drag in The Defenders. Also, I've finished the season now and I still have literally zero idea what the Black Sky is supposed to be.

post #605 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

 

I've finished the season now and I still have literally zero idea what the Black Sky is supposed to be.

OK! So it isn't just me?

post #606 of 785

Nope. I thought we'd get an explanation but turns out they were fine with leaving it at some vague Chosen One stuff.

post #607 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

Nope. I thought we'd get an explanation but turns out they were fine with leaving it at some vague Chosen One stuff.

And not even that chosen. There was a boy in the first season of Daredevil that was also a Black Sky. Sticks killed him of course. 

post #608 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

 

I don't actually. She was a drag on DD season 2, and she's a drag in The Defenders. Also, I've finished the season now and I still have literally zero idea what the Black Sky is supposed to be.

 

All Elektra wanted to do is fuck and kill people. How's that boring?

post #609 of 785

I actually liked her and thought she made what was otherwise a bland 2nd act fun in Daredevil S2. But here....first she's a blank slate and then she's EEEEEEVIIIIIIL!!!! But doesn't have the class that Sigourney Weaver brought to her, thankless, role.

 

Finished the first season and thought this was aggressively okay. There was no reason why this had to be 8 episodes. A 2 hour movie would have suffice. But at nearly 8 hours? It fucking drags. Scene after scene of Danny proclaiming how he's the Iron First and he won't let another city die; how Murdock doesn't want to involve anyone because it's his fight; how Jones doesn't trust anyone, and how Cage is only doing it for Harlem, yo. And it repeats over, and over, and over again. And the fight sequences. Remember how people were ecstatic over the hallway scene from Daredevil s1? Well, this show clearly remembers and tries to repeat it again, and again, and again, and again. Got to a point where I really wanted to skip another scene where heroes punch and kick ninjas.

 

I think this killed the Netflix marvel stuff for me. And I'm hoping that the Punisher series is different enough considering the subject matter.  AND NO MORE THE HAND. PLEASE GOD NO MORE!!!

post #610 of 785

I'm pretty worried about Punisher at this point. I have this strong feeling that we're going to end up with a wussified Frank Castle with a sidekick.

post #611 of 785
The Punisher stuff in DD S2 was pretty brutal. I'm not really worried on that score. We are getting Microchip, so it's a big YES on the sidekick thing, looks like.
post #612 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

The Punisher stuff in DD S2 was pretty brutal. I'm not really worried on that score. We are getting Microchip, so it's a big YES on the sidekick thing, looks like.

Considering how insanely violent Daredevil is, I don't think we're getting a Punisher who shops at Whole Foods and listens to NPR.

And it's entirely possible that Microchip won't stick around, as War Zone and the first arc of the MAX run have dictated.
post #613 of 785

Jon Bernthal reportedly fought to make Castle not a likeable or heroic character. As he's supposed to be cause he's a broken murderous psychopath. And based on the teaser trailer for it I'm willing to bet they're adapting "Born" in some capacity which is NOT a wussified story in any way. And the showrunner is Steve Lightfoot, who wrote a shitload of episodes of Hannibal and was a producer on said show. 

 

So I'm pretty fucking pumped for that. 

 

Finished this over the weekend. And 'Fine' is exactly how I'd describe it. Great chemistry among the leads strengthens the hell out of a pretty rote plot that kind of limps at the end. Treating Danny with about as much respect as he deserved was hilarious (as was all the likeable ones beating the shit out of him) and I really loved how Karen and Foggy treat Matt like an addict who's drug is being Daredevil. Wish we got more of that. 

 

So yeah, didn't hate it. Didn't love it either. 

post #614 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

The Punisher stuff in DD S2 was pretty brutal. I'm not really worried on that score. We are getting Microchip, so it's a big YES on the sidekick thing, looks like.

Well Karen is going to be in it as well. I really don't need her if she is just going to follow him around scolding him.

post #615 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
 

Well Karen is going to be in it as well. I really don't need her if she is just going to follow him around scolding him.


Wait really? ugh.

 

She really is kind of the worst.

post #616 of 785

Why The Punisher is a Hero

an essay by Karen Page

 

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines a hero as "a : a mythological or legendary figure often of divine descent endowed with great strength or ability b : an illustrious warrior c : a person admired for achievements and noble qualities d : one who shows great courage"...

post #617 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
 

Well Karen is going to be in it as well. I really don't need her if she is just going to follow him around scolding him.

 

Street-level vigilantes are bad. Billionaire vigilantes are good.

 

Kind of like how the X-Men exist in the same comics universe as the Fantastic Four, and mutants are feared and persecuted while a giant, orange fucking rock monster is a celebrity.

 

The hero double standards in all things Marvel has always been a problem.

post #618 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

 

Street-level vigilantes are bad. Billionaire vigilantes are good.

 

Kind of like how the X-Men exist in the same comics universe as the Fantastic Four, and mutants are feared and persecuted while a giant, orange fucking rock monster is a celebrity.

 

The hero double standards in all things Marvel has always been a problem.


To say nothing of Thor (or other "mythical deity" characters), who in reality would have Christian Fundamentalist groups picketing Avengers Tower on a daily basis for promoting heathen religions.

post #619 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post


To say nothing of Thor (or other "mythical deity" characters), who in reality would have Christian Fundamentalist groups picketing Avengers Tower on a daily basis for promoting heathen religions.

I don't know that Thor or Hercules ever did inspire resurgent or syncretic religious movements in the comics, but surely some should have cropped up. I like to think that the Bajoran faith became a big hit within Federation space after the Prophets intervened in the Dominion War, too.
post #620 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 


Wait really? ugh.

 

She really is kind of the worst.

Believe it or not I actually like her character. I completely understand her stance on The Punisher and I liked the relationship she had with Frank. My problem is that I don't want a wet blanket scold. If you want to critique what The Punisher does there are more clever ways to do it in the show then that. It's going to get annoying quick if she keeps popping up and getting in his way. The same way where Foggy is TECHNICALLY right but UGH!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post
 

 

Street-level vigilantes are bad. Billionaire vigilantes are good.

 

Kind of like how the X-Men exist in the same comics universe as the Fantastic Four, and mutants are feared and persecuted while a giant, orange fucking rock monster is a celebrity.

 

The hero double standards in all things Marvel has always been a problem.

To be fair Daredevil is the one who kills and it's usually humans and not Superhumans so I understand her opinion. Not to mention she isn't friends with the rest of The Avengers so she can't really take Tony to task or whatever. I just can't take her screaming at him again.

post #621 of 785
Karen wants to ride the Murdock Express to Pound Town, but can't get attached to a man who might be killed by ninjas as an occupational hazard.
post #622 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post
 

EDIT:  As to the Hand's resurrection, I'm purely bucking for a no-prize here, but maybe the more resurrections you've had, the more of "The Substance" it takes, but resurrecting/activating a "Black Sky" takes a whole lot more still.  So basically resurrecting random Ninja Mook #7 who's only died once takes a gram, resurrecting Alexandra or Madame Gao or the other "Fingers" might take a Kilo or two or three, and resurrecting Elektra took a hundred kilos (but really, if it were a matter of such diminishing returns I imagine they'd have spelled it out at some point).

 

Where it gets even more confusing is when you factor in Harold Meachum from Iron Fist, who self-resurrected without any outside influence.  If you can self-resurrect after you've been resurrected once....why are the Fingers so worried about dying?

The only fanwank I've got for this is that the dragon bone is essentially a fuel that stays in somebody's system and only gets consumed when they resurrect. So Harold can come back because however much they used to bring him back the first time hasn't been used up yet, but for the Fingers, who have been alive for thousands of years, they're ability to come back depends on the last time they had some. Alexandra has gone so long without that her body is starting to break down, while some of the others like Bakuto and the Japanese guy probably had some relatively recently, which is why they're shrugging off being stabbed and thrown off balconies.

post #623 of 785

I don't think Karen will be used that way in The Punisher to be honest. It's ground that was already tread in Daredevil S2 and I don't see them going back to that well.

 

More likely Frank will go to her to get some information on his targets which she will regretfully give him. 

post #624 of 785
It could just be that the Hand has been burning through the stuff faster than they anticipated that they would when they started digging in New York, due to Stick's, Elektra's, Rand's, and Frank Castle's impressive kill:death ratios. The timetable they were on didn't account for a city that's as infested with vigilantes as Marvel Universe Manhattan is.
post #625 of 785

It's so weird to me that Netflix apparently has a massive annual budget and can afford to hire Sigourney Weaver and yet the main problem I have with their Marvel shows is that they look cheap. The CW shows look more expensive than these.

post #626 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

It's so weird to me that Netflix apparently has a massive annual budget and can afford to hire Sigourney Weaver and yet the main problem I have with their Marvel shows is that they look cheap. The CW shows look more expensive than these.


But at least Daredevil managed to find a way to work around its budgetary limits.  The Defenders just looks cheap.

post #627 of 785
I assume that viewers never got to see Iron Fist punch that dragon in the heart.
post #628 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post


But at least Daredevil managed to find a way to work around its budgetary limits.  The Defenders just looks cheap.

This.
post #629 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 


But at least Daredevil managed to find a way to work around its budgetary limits.  The Defenders just looks cheap.

 

All of these Marvel shows are produced by ABC studios, who apparently don't know how to produce shows that don't look like shitty, cheap Tuesday Night at 7pm affairs. The Defenders, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Inhumans and Agents of SHIELD all look like they were shot on the same cameras, even.

 

Daredevil had the benefit of Drew Goddard being the show runner. Having someone like him made all the difference.

post #630 of 785

Goddard left pretty early on, Daredevil was run by Stephen S. DeKnight who did pretty amazing things with Spartacus as well.

post #631 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

I assume that viewers never got to see Iron Fist punch that dragon in the heart.


Nope.

post #632 of 785
So was Danny so bad in his respective series that people thought he was an improvement here?

I thought he was easily the worst hero.

(I didn't watch Iron fist cause fuck that)
post #633 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

I assume that viewers never got to see Iron Fist punch that dragon in the heart.

No.....but im my imagination it was pretty strong.

post #634 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

So was Danny so bad in his respective series that people thought he was an improvement here?

I thought he was easily the worst hero.

(I didn't watch Iron fist cause fuck that)

Well the one thing that was kind of funny is that, at least in the first 5 episodes I have seen they play into that a little. I mean im sure they didn't think people would hate him so much but they embrace it a little and actually have one of the five hand fingers tell him "you are the dumbest Iron Fist". They have him make the stupid mistake of walking into the board room and then later Luke Cage I think tell him how dumb it was. If they could actually embrace that in the main series and show him grow and mature it could be interesting. They will fuck it up though.

post #635 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post

So was Danny so bad in his respective series that people thought he was an improvement here?

I thought he was easily the worst hero.

(I didn't watch Iron fist cause fuck that)


YMMV.  I realized that Danny was being portrayed as a man-child and just rolled with it, so it didn't bother me nearly as much as some others.  Though mostly Iron Fist gets mad shade thrown at it for having mediocre fight choreography in a show that's supposed to be about a Kung-fu Master (With one or two exceptions near the end of the series).

 

It's definitely the weakest of the Netflix Marvel series, but IMO that just translates to "average" not "abomination."  It doesn't have the highs of the other Defenders shows, but it doesn't get any lower than some of the others do, either.  And the supporting cast is better than the lead by a wide margin.

 

Basically, in Jessica Jones, Daredevil, and Luke Cage, the leads are charismatic and have a reasonable bit of gravitas.  Finn Jones...not so much.  He's not beyond repair, though.

post #636 of 785
Hahahaha at that long take of Luke Cage picking up that big styrofoam prop.

WOW.
post #637 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

Hahahaha at that long take of Luke Cage picking up that big styrofoam prop.

WOW.

 

The rubble after the "earthquake"?

post #638 of 785

Sigh......finally done. Fuck whoever directed those last 2 fight scene. That should have been amazing and I can't even really tell you what happened. Also I love that they finally decided that undead ninja lives aren't important. All that hand wringing bullshit for nothing. 

post #639 of 785
Is it worse than the world's greatest martial artist, trained in heaven itself, having a sword fight with steel beams and losing?
post #640 of 785
So, Misty Knight opens up a metal door, held shut on the other side by a twisted metal pipe, by shooting at it. And that's just the tip of the stupidity iceberg.

This whole season was like some bad internet fan fiction. Just astoundingly, insultingly dumb. And they had the gall to pull a Superman with Murdock in the end.

Get to fuck.
post #641 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. View Post

So, Misty Knight opens up a metal door, held shut on the other side by a twisted metal pipe, by shooting at it. And that's just the tip of the stupidity iceberg.

Pretty sure it was a different door than the one that Luke shut. The doorknob of the one that Misty shot was on the left hand side of the door. The one Luke twisted the pipe around had the hinge on the left side.

post #642 of 785

I often don't agree with Movie Bob but this is actually a pretty fair assessment of what works and what doesn't in the show, and why it doesn't (although I like the MCU version of Electra a lot more than he does).

 

 


Edited by MrSaxon - 8/22/17 at 1:44am
post #643 of 785

Hahaha. I love how Jones is doing the standard female action star "butt shot."

 

But then again, Iron Fist is just showing everyone his dick, so I guess it's fair.

post #644 of 785

Just finished episode 6 and I did not expect

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Alexandra to die and Elektra to take over. 

 

Great twist, and this show (from the third episode on) is really working for me.

post #645 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Just finished episode 6 and I did not expect

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Alexandra to die and Elektra to take over. 

 

Great twist, and this show (from the third episode on) is really working for me.

Yeah but I kind of knew it would happen because 

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I knew they wouldn't have one of our heroes kill someone up close that way. The only one that could and would have done it is Jessica and that battle isn't nearly as personal for her. I read an interview after that confirmed it.
post #646 of 785

The first third of this is kind of terrible.  Once the board room fight kicks in and the heroes are all interacting with each other, it is much, much better.  There's still a whole lot of circular conversations about each hero's particular issue, and the Hand's.  

 

I love Elodie Yung as Elektra, but having her be a mute henchman for four hours is a real waster.  There was about 4 episodes worth of story here.

post #647 of 785

Complete waste of Sigourney Weaver.

post #648 of 785
Buncha grumpy asses in here!
post #649 of 785

That's what wasting the star of Alien does to me.

post #650 of 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

Complete waste of Sigourney Weaver.

Yes and no.  The part ended up going nowhere, but she definitely elevated the material in a way that was desperately needed.  The whole thing just made me wish they had saved her for Queen Veranke if Avengers 4 is indeed a Secret Invasion adaptation.

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