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post #51 of 196
My first match after the expansion went live, some guy played a 17/17 C'thun and I immediately one-shot killed it with a trusty 3 mana Emperor Cobra.

I imagine the key to getting any use out of C'thun will be to build up his Battlecry before deploying him, because everyone's going to have their bullshit insta-kill cards earmarked for him when he appears.
post #52 of 196

opened 90 packs today, pulled 4 legendaries, The nice thing was I did not pay a dime, I have been saving/grinding gold since before the announcement.  Ragnaros, Huhuru, chogall, yogg sauron and nat. Was gonna dust nat but then thought why not try him in a mill rogue. 

 

Played a handfull of games, have not made a cthun deck yet. Tried out paladin divine shield, pirate warrior and deathrattle/beast hunter. The hunter is dope and I may see if I can hit legend with it. The paladin deck was functional, and my version of pirate warrior sucked. 

 

Did not pull a twin emporer but am considering crafting him along with Nzoth. I am sitting on nearly 5k dust so I can do it, but i want to see what develops before shooting my wad.

 

I am thinking of pulling the trigger on crafting a second call of the wild, that card is amazing. 

post #53 of 196
Thread Starter 
Here's my problem, the game almost forces you into a Cthun deck if you want to run a control deck. Cthun is OP by itself, but even the early game buff cards are strong and the synergies with the class cards and twin emps...there's just no reason not to play it. I played the death rattle hunter control deck with Nzoth, 2 call of the wilds and the new hunter legendary. I was getting outclassed in the early game by both aggro and Cthun because I'm almost forced to run king eleck and huge toads. When I was able to get to the late game call of the wild won a few games for me...Nzoth actually didn't have too much influence on the outcome of the games. Small sample size and all that but it just felt too slow vs. Aggro and too weak vs. Cthun.
post #54 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post

Here's my problem, the game almost forces you into a Cthun deck if you want to run a control deck. Cthun is OP by itself, but even the early game buff cards are strong and the synergies with the class cards and twin emps...there's just no reason not to play it. I played the death rattle hunter control deck with Nzoth, 2 call of the wilds and the new hunter legendary. I was getting outclassed in the early game by both aggro and Cthun because I'm almost forced to run king eleck and huge toads. When I was able to get to the late game call of the wild won a few games for me...Nzoth actually didn't have too much influence on the outcome of the games. Small sample size and all that but it just felt too slow vs. Aggro and too weak vs. Cthun.

I ran into the same problem, I dont have Nzoth, but sounds like we were running largely the same deck. I had a roughly 50 percent win percentage in ranked (7-8). I would beat shaman pretty consistently, but Cthun decks tended to outvalue me, which is kinda sick considering it is a one card combo/finisher at the end. 

 

I think Cthun may have made this game too ez and took away some of the creative deck building. I am experimenting with dragon priest in the new meta and finding it is pretty good (scaled nightmare is amazing, I may be crafting a second one soon). 

post #55 of 196
Thread Starter 

The Cthun deck out-values every other control deck.  There is no defense for twin emps on turn 7.  On average, Cthun is probably going to do 14-16 instant damage by the time its played, and then you have to deal with the huge minion.  No other turn 10 play in any other type of deck comes close to that.  Heck, I was thinking of running that new 3 mana 2-1 Cthun creature that has a two damage battlecry in a Non-Cthun deck because it's so good.  The only counter to this deck is a cancer shaman or some sort of zoo.

 

I try not to play the most obvious popular decks if I can avoid it.  I never did a freeze mage or a secret pally because that's what everybody else was doing.  But if everybody is doing a version of Cthun or aggro Shaman, I don't see how you will win consistently enough with other decks to make a significant climb.

post #56 of 196
Thread Starter 

Call of the Wild is a sick card, though.  It single-handedly won me a few games last night.  The problem with the deathrattle hunter deck is that you need time to play it, and the early game deathrattle minions are pretty poor.  Plus the hunter has no good healing cards or card draw, and the hero power is better in an aggro deck.  Originally my deck had Sylvannis & Cairne, which are 6-drops with great deathrattles, but it was way too slow.  By the time I got to turn 6 I was almost dead.  I have since replaced them with the new firebat 1 drop, which is a card I don't like, but does help in the early game.  Once I included those I started winning more.  If you have board control on turn 8, then drop Call of the Wild, you're probably going to win.  It's getting to turn 8 intact that's the problem.

post #57 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post

The Cthun deck out-values every other control deck.  There is no defense for twin emps on turn 7.  On average, Cthun is probably going to do 14-16 instant damage by the time its played, and then you have to deal with the huge minion.  No other turn 10 play in any other type of deck comes close to that.  Heck, I was thinking of running that new 3 mana 2-1 Cthun creature that has a two damage battlecry in a Non-Cthun deck because it's so good.  The only counter to this deck is a cancer shaman or some sort of zoo.

I try not to play the most obvious popular decks if I can avoid it.  I never did a freeze mage or a secret pally because that's what everybody else was doing.  But if everybody is doing a version of Cthun or aggro Shaman, I don't see how you will win consistently enough with other decks to make a significant climb.

I've been seeing a shit-ton of Murloc Paladin since the Argent Tournament was introduced, and that doesn't seem to have slowed down yet. Like, it's every Paladin I see. That and goddamn Mukla's Champion, which is so overpowered that it's the first card I've ever parted with my precious dust to craft for my own deck of unfair bullshit.
_
Edited by Reasor - 4/27/16 at 12:29pm
post #58 of 196

That 2 damage cthun minion is also the perfect counter to Forlorn stalker as a turn 3 play. That tempo swing right there is what loses the game against most Cthun decks. So basically, right now Cthun outclasses all other midrange and most control decks. 

 

The 4/2 divine shield guy is arguably the best 4 cost even without the cthun buff. 

 

 

I am the same as you, I never made the cards for freeze mage or Secret Pally because they are both garbage.

 

In this meta, I think the hunter deck tops out at a 50 percent win percentage even though call of the wild is freaking amazing. I am going to still try to make it work. I am thinking of dropping the stalker for either more speed or more control, my current version gets out valued. 

post #59 of 196
Thread Starter 

I really want to make this hunter work, but I'm forced to run two loot horders and two king's eleck for card draw.  Of course the eleck loses 80% of the time and I don't get any benefit from it.  And then the Eleck gets taken out on turn three from the 2/1 Cthun card's battlecry and I am instantly behind.  The new 3/3 wolf that has the 2 spider deathrattle is a good card, and it fits really well in this deck.  The spiders that spawn are considered beasts which makes them eligible to be used with hound masters and ram wranglers.  What the deck really needs are the good 2 drops like haunted creepers and mad scientists, but no Naxx cards allowed.

post #60 of 196
It was my initial and enduring failure to keep minions alive that taught me to value battlecries, deathrattles, and the Charge trait above nearly all others on minions. I've come to view them as spells that have a minute chance of having a lingering effect beyond what they can do for me on the round that they're played.
post #61 of 196
Thread Starter 

I just think the some of the battlecry Cthun cards have ridiculous synergies.  Cthun itself is just crazy value.  But being able to throw out two 4/6 taunts on turn 7 with Twin Emperor Veklor is just as crazy.  That 4/10 druid Cthun card for 4 mana is crazy.  All are just so over the top crazy, it's like Blizzard said "YOU'RE FUCKING NUTS TO ATTEMPT ANY OTHER CONTROL DECK."  

post #62 of 196

So I put in some serious play time with the Deathrattle hunter and got from Rank 8 to 5. A couple of simple changes really made the diffence. Mainly, I dumped Forlorn stalker and replaced it with the 2/5 three drop Carion Crawler. And Bob, while I agree with you about turn two drops, The turn 3 carrion crawler makes up for it. 

 

Now a 2/5 does not seem that threatening, but since it is a beast and a three drop, it is actually quite sticky and is the perfect set up for a turn 4 houndmaster. 

 

I also got rid of Ram Wrangler for Sylvanas. Honestly, hitting Sylvanas with the Princess is just soul crushing for the opponent. Also Loot horder/princess on turn 7 is also a favorite play of mine, it is a combo, but has even more value than Dr. Boom. I took half a twin emporer on turn 7 today to really turn around a game against Cthun Druid. 

 

unleash the hounds and a hunter's mark are great for countering Zoo and Shaman. 

 

I actually run two Highmanes and 2 Calls of the wild, so the late game is strong. I am really liking this deck and think it has what it takes to hit legend next season. I don't have the time to play it out all the way, but it is there.

 

Reasor, you are 100 percent right, battlecries and Charge are huge in this game, as are deathrattles, good thing this deck is loaded with all of them.

 

 

Another thing I noticed as I climbed the ranks, much less Cthun and far more tuned archetypes. Tempo Mage, All forms of Shaman, Zoo, Dragon Priest, Dragon pally and aggro warrior were all over the place. 

 

I messed around with Cthun quite a bit, and found it is good, but a well tuned deck can beat it, you just have to out tempo it. Plus if you are playing aggressively, you can often kill them prior to turn 10. It's just if you favor a slower midrangy style, then you are exactly what Cthun wants to play against. 

 

Nzoth might be fools gold, I have not lost to him yet. But Yogg Sauron is no joke. The dudes on reddit ran the odds and found that nearly 2 out 3 spells cast by Yogg Sauron will be favorable. So if you are playing tempo mage and have them anywhere under 15, Yogg will usually finish the game. 

 

Once I really see what this hunter can do, the next deck I want to dive into is the new tempo mage with Cabalist tome. With the new spell damage 2 drop and wyrm, walker and apprentice still there, that is a brutal early game that can chew up aggro. The prodigeous draw of tome and arcane make you feel like your playing a divine favor paladin. 

 

Rogues deathrattle game is intriguing, saw a lot of players with legendary cardbacks running various versions of that deck. 

 

So all in all, I think this a great expansion. I am so glad to be rid of the Secret pally and the Cthun decks are not nearly as bad as I originally thought. 

post #63 of 196
Thread Starter 

I lowered the curve on my hunter deck and I started having more success, I think I went 6-2 before I went to bed last night.  I found out that with this deck you need to be playing a creature on every turn, always have a board presence.  And then turn 8 you play Call of the Wild, and turn 10 you play N'zoth.  And I can assure you N'zoth isn't fools gold.  On average I'm reviving 1 of each of my DR creatures (1 huge toad, 1 corrupted wolf, 1 loot hoarder, 1 savannah highmane, 1 fiery bat) and N'zoth himself is a 5/7.  That's like 20/20 worth of stats plus all the deathrattles again.  I got to play him in like 5 of the 6 games last night and he definitely swung games in my favor.  

 

Card draw is a problem, but I did put in a Cult Master and that was synergizing well with all the resilient creatures that I have.  I also put in an explosive trap and Dreadscale to help deal with aggro.  Dreadscale also works well with hunter's mark.  Another new addition that was working for me last night was Stampeding Kodo.  The Kodo is in there specifically to deal with Imp Gang Boss, Flamewakers, Acolytes of pain and Doomsayers.  It's a huge tempo swing when you can wipe an opposing minion off the board.  Plus it's a beast.  

 

Sylvanis is the one card I really wan't to try and find a place for in this deck.  I had her in there originally, but felt she was too heavy.  The way this deck loses is if you get overrun early, and if your starting hand has Sylvanis, a Highmane and a Call of the Wild...you're probably dead.  I'll keep tweaking it, but I feel like the deck is starting to perform up to my original expectations.

post #64 of 196
Thread Starter 

2 Hunter's Mark

2 Fiery Bats

2 Loot Hoarders

1 King Eleck

2 Huge Toads

1 Explosive Trap

1 Bear Trap

1 Dreadscale

2 UTH

2 Animal Companion

2 Kill Command

2 Infested Wolf

2 Houndmaster

1 Cult Master

1 Stampeding Kodo

1 Princess Huhuran

2 Highmane

2 Call of the Wild

1 N'zoth

 

That's the deck as it stands today.  The last card in is the Bear Trap, but it's worked out well since I've included it.  I've thought about replacing the King Eleck because my curve is now much smaller and I usually lose the showdowns, but it is a 3/2 body and a beast and a 2-drop.  The original version of this deck had Sylvanis, Cairne, and Emperor Thaurissan.  The theory was you play Thaurissan on 6 and then CotW on 7 and/or N'zoth on 9.  But it was just way to slow.  

 

The deck has two win conditions in my mind.  If you have board control on turn 8, and then drop a CotW, you're probably going to win.  If you get to turn 10 and you have board control or are even and you drop a N'zoth, you're probably going to win.  The dream is turn 8 CotW into a turn 10 N'zoth.  

 

I haven't gotten much use out of Huhuran yet.  The best case scenario is a turn 6 highmane into a turn 7 Huhuran and then I get the 2 extra minions.  Obviously Sylvanis could be really powerful with Huhuran, if I could fit her in.   

post #65 of 196
In order of mana cost, I'm rolling with:

2 Power Word: Shield*
2 Northshire Cleric
2 Beckoner of Evil
2 Twilight Geomancer
2 Shadow Word: Death
2 Twilight Elder
2 Hooded Acolyte
2 Holy Nova
2 Crazed Worshipper
2 Darkshire Alchemist
1 Mukla's Champion
1 Twilight Darkmender
1 Skeram Cultist
2 Doomcaller
2 Mind Control
1 C'thun

*I'm giving serious thought to swapping out the two Power Word: Shield for a pair of Shadow Word: Pain. PW: Shield is useful when paired with cards like Divine Spirit, Inner Fire, and Lightspawn, but I don't have room for all that in my deck, and SW: Pain would cover a bald spot in my defenses against low attack enemy minions in the early turns of the match. I'm already getting quite good at catching up in later turns with all those Battlecry heals at my disposal, but I lost an embarassingly quick match this morning to a crazy aggressive Druid deck. Someone gave that class some good low cost summoning spells when I wasn't looking.

Unless the shuffle of the deck just randomly deprives me of my heals, I'm fiend at later turns. A Mage player dropped his C'thun on me today; I took the hit from his Battlecry and Mind Controlled his C'thun. He played Facless Manipulator to make a copy of the C'thun I had just stolen from him, and I Mind Controlled it. He was now faced with two huge kaiju that he had made, and I was about to play my own C'thun when he conceded. I've still yet to be killed by another player's C'thun.
Edited by Reasor - 4/28/16 at 10:36am
post #66 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

In order of mana cost, I'm rolling with:

2 Power Word: Shield*
2 Northshire Cleric
2 Beckoner of Evil
2 Twilight Geomancer
2 Shadow Word: Death
2 Twilight Elder
2 Hooded Acolyte
2 Holy Nova
2 Crazed Worshipper
2 Darkshire Alchemist
1 Mukla's Champion
1 Twilight Darkmender
1 Skeram Cultist
2 Doomcaller
2 Mind Control
1 C'thun

*I'm giving serious thought to swapping out the two Power Word: Shield for a pair of Shadow Word: Pain. PW: Shield is useful when paired with cards like Divine Spirit, Inner Fire, and Lightspawn, but I don't have room for all that in my deck, and SW: Pain would cover a bald spot in my defenses against low attack enemy minions in the early turns of the match. I'm already getting quite good at catching up in later turns with all those Battlecry heals at my disposal, but I lost an embarassingly quick match this morning to a crazy aggressive Druid deck. Someone gave that class some good low cost summoning spells when I wasn't looking.

 

A little bit of unprofessional advice:

 

Drop the 2 mind controls for 2 entombs.  Entomb is hard removal for 4 mana less.  And it helps in fatigue matchups because it puts an extra card in your deck.  It's one of the best cards in the game.

 

Drop the 2 twilight geomancers for 2 Disciples of c'thun.  The twilight geomancers don't buff C'Thun, only give it taunt.  The disciples do two instant damage, thus able to clear aggro minions, plus it buffs your C'thun +2/+2.  I couldn't imagine a C'thun deck without 2 Disciples in it.  They will help you greatly in the early game. 

 

Mukla's Champion generally works in decks that can flood the board with little minions.  As a priest you're not going to be doing that.  You're going to be playing fewer, bigger minions.  I would go with a Justicar Trueheart in that slot because being able to heal for 4 is pretty valuable in the late game.

 

I don't think it's necessary to run two Dark Cultists.  They're just so slow.  A better card would be the new Twin Emperor Veklor Legendary if you can afford it.  It's a devastatingly powerful card in the C'thun decks.  

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with running SW: pain.  You may want to consider a Shadow Word: Horror to wipe out mass quantities of low attack minions.

post #67 of 196
That's all good advice, and I'll keep it in mind when I have the dust to craft some of that.

For now, the Twilight Geomancers are useful for giving me a chance to get Northshire Cleric and Hooded Acolyte set up. When they're in place, using Anduin's hero power lets me draw cards, buff C'thun, and keep myself or my minions topped off in health, for 2 mana per turn. This becomes retarded when Mukla's Champion is in play and can buff minions every time I use the hero power.
post #68 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

2 Hunter's Mark

2 Fiery Bats

2 Loot Hoarders

1 King Eleck

2 Huge Toads

1 Explosive Trap

1 Bear Trap

1 Dreadscale

2 UTH

2 Animal Companion

2 Kill Command

2 Infested Wolf

2 Houndmaster

1 Cult Master

1 Stampeding Kodo

1 Princess Huhuran

2 Highmane

2 Call of the Wild

1 N'zoth

 

That's the deck as it stands today.  The last card in is the Bear Trap, but it's worked out well since I've included it.  I've thought about replacing the King Eleck because my curve is now much smaller and I usually lose the showdowns, but it is a 3/2 body and a beast and a 2-drop.  The original version of this deck had Sylvanis, Cairne, and Emperor Thaurissan.  The theory was you play Thaurissan on 6 and then CotW on 7 and/or N'zoth on 9.  But it was just way to slow.  

 

The deck has two win conditions in my mind.  If you have board control on turn 8, and then drop a CotW, you're probably going to win.  If you get to turn 10 and you have board control or are even and you drop a N'zoth, you're probably going to win.  The dream is turn 8 CotW into a turn 10 N'zoth.  

 

I haven't gotten much use out of Huhuran yet.  The best case scenario is a turn 6 highmane into a turn 7 Huhuran and then I get the 2 extra minions.  Obviously Sylvanis could be really powerful with Huhuran, if I could fit her in.   

very nice, if your running cult master, you have to love the UTH combo.  I have also been running dreadscale since the begining, he is great v aggro shaman. I think you should dump the kodo for Sylvanas, one more mana and much more synergy. 

 

This is my  current set up

1x hunters mark

2x fiery bat

2x huge toad

2x kings eleck

2x loot hoarder

2x quick shot

1x bear trap

2x carrion grub

1x dreadscale

1x unleash the hounds

2x animal companion

2x kill command

2x houndmaster

2x infested wolf

1x princess

1x Sylvanas

2x highmane

2x call of the wild

 

The deck applies good pressure, has answers to most situations but is a bit light on card draw. That is why I keep the loot hoarders and love to combo it with the princess. You have me really considering crafting Nzoth, I am sitting on 5k dust but keeping my powder dry until I see how the meta develops. 

post #69 of 196
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

That's all good advice, and I'll keep it in mind when I have the dust to craft some of that.

For now, the Twilight Geomancers are useful for giving me a chance to get Northshire Cleric and Hooded Acolyte set up. When they're in place, using Anduin's hero power lets me draw cards, buff C'thun, and keep myself or my minions topped off in health, for 2 mana per turn. This becomes retarded when Mukla's Champion is in play and can buff minions every time I use the hero power.

My concern is that your deck is so heavy, you're never going to get to C'thun because you will get destroyed by aggro and mid-range decks.  At the very least I would find a way to get the Disciples of Cthun into your deck.  A 3-drop that instantly buffs C'thun and affects the board.  Maybe take out the Doomcallers.  

post #70 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3nnui View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

2 Hunter's Mark

2 Fiery Bats

2 Loot Hoarders

1 King Eleck

2 Huge Toads

1 Explosive Trap

1 Bear Trap

1 Dreadscale

2 UTH

2 Animal Companion

2 Kill Command

2 Infested Wolf

2 Houndmaster

1 Cult Master

1 Stampeding Kodo

1 Princess Huhuran

2 Highmane

2 Call of the Wild

1 N'zoth

 

That's the deck as it stands today.  The last card in is the Bear Trap, but it's worked out well since I've included it.  I've thought about replacing the King Eleck because my curve is now much smaller and I usually lose the showdowns, but it is a 3/2 body and a beast and a 2-drop.  The original version of this deck had Sylvanis, Cairne, and Emperor Thaurissan.  The theory was you play Thaurissan on 6 and then CotW on 7 and/or N'zoth on 9.  But it was just way to slow.  

 

The deck has two win conditions in my mind.  If you have board control on turn 8, and then drop a CotW, you're probably going to win.  If you get to turn 10 and you have board control or are even and you drop a N'zoth, you're probably going to win.  The dream is turn 8 CotW into a turn 10 N'zoth.  

 

I haven't gotten much use out of Huhuran yet.  The best case scenario is a turn 6 highmane into a turn 7 Huhuran and then I get the 2 extra minions.  Obviously Sylvanis could be really powerful with Huhuran, if I could fit her in.   

very nice, if your running cult master, you have to love the UTH combo.  I have also been running dreadscale since the begining, he is great v aggro shaman.

 

This is my  current set up

1x hunters mark

2x fiery bat

2x huge toad

2x kings eleck

2x loot hoarder

2x quick shot

1x bear trap

2x carrion grub

1x dreadscale

1x unleash the hounds

2x animal companion

2x kill command

2x houndmaster

2x infested wolf

1x princess

1x Sylvanas

2x highmane

2x call of the wild

 

The deck applies good pressure, has answers to most situations but is a bit light on card draw. That is why I keep the loot hoarders and love to combo it with the princess

 

Yeah, I definately run two unleashes.  I think you have to run N'zoth in this deck, just trust me on this.  It's another hammer at the end of the game, and it could catch you up if you're behind.  I don't think I would run carrion grubs because they don't kill 3 and 4 health minions which is what you typically see from turn 3 on, but if you go turn 3 carrion into turn 4 houndmaster that would be pretty powerful.  

post #71 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

In order of mana cost, I'm rolling with:

2 Power Word: Shield*
2 Northshire Cleric
2 Beckoner of Evil
2 Twilight Geomancer
2 Shadow Word: Death
2 Twilight Elder
2 Hooded Acolyte
2 Holy Nova
2 Crazed Worshipper
2 Darkshire Alchemist
1 Mukla's Champion
1 Twilight Darkmender
1 Skeram Cultist
2 Doomcaller
2 Mind Control
1 C'thun

*I'm giving serious thought to swapping out the two Power Word: Shield for a pair of Shadow Word: Pain. PW: Shield is useful when paired with cards like Divine Spirit, Inner Fire, and Lightspawn, but I don't have room for all that in my deck, and SW: Pain would cover a bald spot in my defenses against low attack enemy minions in the early turns of the match. I'm already getting quite good at catching up in later turns with all those Battlecry heals at my disposal, but I lost an embarassingly quick match this morning to a crazy aggressive Druid deck. Someone gave that class some good low cost summoning spells when I wasn't looking.

Unless the shuffle of the deck just randomly deprives me of my heals, I'm fiend at later turns. A Mage player dropped his C'thun on me today; I took the hit from his Battlecry and Mind Controlled his C'thun. He played Facless Manipulator to make a copy of the C'thun I had just stolen from him, and I Mind Controlled it. He was now faced with two huge kaiju that he had made, and I was about to play my own C'thun when he conceded. I've still yet to be killed by another player's C'thun.

That does look fun, but like bob says, it feels slow. Some more early answers v aggro may be needed. I would consider using shadow word horror with such a heavy deck.

 

Also dont give up on power word shield, it is so versatile, enables good trades, cycles your deck, I can't see running a priest deck with minions without it. 

post #72 of 196
Thread Starter 

And when you have a Gold N'zoth it resurrects all of your creatures as gold creatures.  Your opponent will become so overwhelmed at the shininess they just instantly concede half the time.

post #73 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

 

Yeah, I definately run two unleashes.  I think you have to run N'zoth in this deck, just trust me on this.  It's another hammer at the end of the game, and it could catch you up if you're behind.  I don't think I would run carrion grubs because they don't kill 3 and 4 health minions which is what you typically see from turn 3 on, but if you go turn 3 carrion into turn 4 houndmaster that would be pretty powerful.  

that is exactly what I was going to say, the grubs job is to trade into two small drops, or get houndmastered. He is hopefully a 4/7 taunt on turn 4. And just the theat of this can often bait out a 2-1 trade in your favor or a 5 damage or hard removal. 

 

I am almost there on Nzoth, I just love my curve right now, the deck is in the game against everything, and I often finish before turn 10. 

 

How often does the game feed you Nzoth early? If I constantly see him in the first 10 cards, that is really a drawback.

 

I don't think the draw mechanics in this game are entirely random. I think you get different types of draws based on a number of factors, I think even the decks you play against are not really that random. 

post #74 of 196
Thread Starter 

Played for about an hour yesterday and got on a little win streak, going from 13 to 10.  Then hit a wall.  Ran into a couple C'thun decks and got out valued early game which means I had no shot late game.  A hunter has no real good removal or AOE, unlike every other class.  Hunter's Mark is ok, but requires you to have a board presence to use and deadly shot is useless against a full board.  A hunter needs its own version of Hex or equality or poly or brawl.   I'm even considering putting in a black knight to deal with big taunts, because those are giving me the most trouble right now.  

post #75 of 196
I have a fondness for Hunter decks too, and could only grit my teeth when Hunter's Mark had its cost increased in the recent patch.
post #76 of 196

you guys are right, removal of big minions is the weakness of the deck and getting out valued in trades (dragon priest is a seriously uphill battle). But between unleash the hounds and the infested wolf tokens, you do have some extra bodies to pair with mark, and if it's a big bad boy, going 2 for 1 with mark and quickshot gets the job done.

 

Kill command is pretty much a removal spell for me. Highmane can also be a postive trade to double as removal in a pinch.

 

The thing is you have so much value with deathrattles, that a few 2 for 1 trades are doable and you can still maintain tempo. Cthun priest is pretty much kryptonite though. 

post #77 of 196
Thread Starter 

N'zoth Paladin.  The new hotness.

post #78 of 196
I'm starting to see a lot more rush decks, and wondering if trying to prevent the match from reaching turn 10 is going to be the widely adopted consensus. It'd be funny if the Old Gods expansion evolved the metagame into one where the biggest, heaviest Legendaries are rarely used.
post #79 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

I'm starting to see a lot more rush decks, and wondering if trying to prevent the match from reaching turn 10 is going to be the widely adopted consensus. It'd be funny if the Old Gods expansion evolved the metagame into one where the biggest, heaviest Legendaries are rarely used.

that is always the case, if Cthun is strong, then people will either play it or move to  ultra aggro. Then the meta will counter those decks with a more midrange/value deck to counter the aggro. Then Cthun comes back and feasts on the midrange. 

 

The only question is if Cthun is the new control. I have not played enough cthun or control to know for sure, but if control cannot beat Cthun, then it is basically dead in the meta with the current cardset. 

 

I am hoping that pure control trumps cthun, and that some other combo decks arise, that way we will have a really interesting meta.

 

Meta's break down when the traditional counter fails in it's role. It's way too early to tell at this point. 

post #80 of 196
Thread Starter 

So I've pretty much been spinning wheels since the expansion.  Just as I suspected, everybody is going super-aggro or super-late game.  The mid-range decks feel like their getting phased out.  I'm now trying to get a N'zoth Rogue deck to be successful.  Rogue has always been a class I've enjoyed eventhough it's traditionally been a little under-powered.  I'm probably at a 60% win-rate with it and I'm still making tweaks.

post #81 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

So I've pretty much been spinning wheels since the expansion.  Just as I suspected, everybody is going super-aggro or super-late game.  The mid-range decks feel like their getting phased out.  I'm now trying to get a N'zoth Rogue deck to be successful.  Rogue has always been a class I've enjoyed eventhough it's traditionally been a little under-powered.  I'm probably at a 60% win-rate with it and I'm still making tweaks.

I am actually really liking the meta, I have so many decks that seem viable and just no time to play them. 

 

Shaman: Aggro, Midrange, Evolution, Murloc, Totem

 

Priest: Control, Cthun, Dragon, Nzoth

 

Mage: Yogg, Freeze, Cthun, Tempo

 

Hunter: Nzoth, Face, Control

 

Paladin: Ebola, Shield, Nzoth, Dragon, Murloc

 

Warrior: Agrro/Pirate, Control, Cthun. Patron

 

Rogue: Mill, Nzoth, Miracle

 

Druid: Beast, Cthun, Ancestrel, Midrange

 

Warlock: Zoo, Reno, Cthun, Renounce

 

Now some of these will prove to be less than viable (so far my Nzoth priest with the Herald of Volaj I opened yesterday has been a bust). But I am sure there will be plenty more archetypes coming forward. I am seeing cards used that were old favorites in the value realm making a strong comeback in this new meta. 

post #82 of 196
Thread Starter 

Sure, there are a million decks out there, but only a few for serious climbing, IMO.  

 

I faced a Healadin N'zoth Paladin deck the other day that was impossible to beat.  I probably did 50-60 worth of face damage to him and couldn't kill him.  He had all the heal cards in the deck and the mass board clears.  It's a deck I would play myself except I don't want to play 30 minute games.  

 

I feel like Hunters got it the worst in this expansion.  They got Call of the Wild, which is a great card, but it's a late game card.  And you just can't win consistently enough in a control game with a class that has too few removals and no heals.  Seriously, Hunters have no hard removal, no competitive AOE other than explosive trap, no heals, no natural card draw, and probably the worst hero power in this meta.  I'm actually considering some sort of crazy Lock n' Load N'zoth hunter which I'm sure is destined to fail.

post #83 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

Sure, there are a million decks out there, but only a few for serious climbing, IMO.  

 

I faced a Healadin N'zoth Paladin deck the other day that was impossible to beat.  I probably did 50-60 worth of face damage to him and couldn't kill him.  He had all the heal cards in the deck and the mass board clears.  It's a deck I would play myself except I don't want to play 30 minute games.  

 

I feel like Hunters got it the worst in this expansion.  They got Call of the Wild, which is a great card, but it's a late game card.  And you just can't win consistently enough in a control game with a class that has too few removals and no heals.  Seriously, Hunters have no hard removal, no competitive AOE other than explosive trap, no heals, no natural card draw, and probably the worst hero power in this meta.  I'm actually considering some sort of crazy Lock n' Load N'zoth hunter which I'm sure is destined to fail.

I reached rank 5 last season with hunter, I think I have a decent shot at legend with it, even though I have never made it (rank 1 the highest ever). I think the Nzoth hunter is a very good deck, mainly because of stickiness and tempo. 

 

Yeah, there are bad matchups, but all decks should have bad matchups. I don't want to see a deck like secretadin or prenerf patron warrior take the game over again.

post #84 of 196
Thread Starter 
The healadin is the new secret pally. That or the aggro shaman.
post #85 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post

The healadin is the new secret pally. That or the aggro shaman.

aggro shaman is more like the new face hunter. Tbh, I think the old aggro shaman with crackle actually played better than the new one with flamewreathed faceless. But I have only played it a couple of times to get a feel for the curve and figure out how best to counter it. Honestly, the hunter deck is winning 70 percent plus against all forms of shaman. 

 

That healadin is sick though, I think pure control can beat it (priest/warrior) but I am not sure what else can get the job done. 
 

If it really becomes popular, I see some combo decks rising to combat it. Warrior with that new drake/charge combo, leroy/faceless out of a handlock, or maybe even a totem shaman packing bloodlust. 

post #86 of 196
What Hearthstone is really like:
post #87 of 196

Hunter Theme song

 

post #88 of 196
Thread Starter 

And I'm the dumbass who is still trying to get a mid-range hunter to legend.  Acidmaw is now in the deck.

post #89 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

And I'm the dumbass who is still trying to get a mid-range hunter to legend.  Acidmaw is now in the deck.

I am another dumbass right next to you. But overwatch has replaced my legend grind time for now. I am sitting at rank 12 right now, but won't advance until the open beta is over. 

 

Acidmaw sounds interesting, are you facing a lot of druid cthun and dragon priest?

post #90 of 196
Thread Starter 

Hunters just have no answer for big minions and taunts other than hunter's mark.  A turn 10 Acidmaw + unleash combo will clear the board.  

 

I'm sort of at a crossroads with this deck.  The best hunter decks are aggro decks, yet I'm still trying to get this N'zoth deck to work.  I'm beginning to think it can't.  The easiest way for a hunter to win is to have board control by turn 8 and then drop a call of the wild.  Even Highmanes and Sylvanis are too slow for this deck.  Plus they inevitably get hexed or poly'd or entombed, because the opponent knows that those are the biggest threats.  Plus hunters have no good natural cycle which is just a killer because it forces you to play cards like loot hoarder and azure drake which are weak minions that don't contest the board well for their mana cost.  

 

I've had much more success recently with my N'zoth/Auctioneer rogue deck and my C'thun/Reno warlock.  I think I won like 8 games in a row with the Warlock deck on Friday.  Rogues have better early game removal and better card draw mechanics than a hunter, so it's easier to find the answer and also get to your N'zoth faster.

post #91 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

Hunters just have no answer for big minions and taunts other than hunter's mark.  A turn 10 Acidmaw + unleash combo will clear the board.  

 

I'm sort of at a crossroads with this deck.  The best hunter decks are aggro decks, yet I'm still trying to get this N'zoth deck to work.  I'm beginning to think it can't.  The easiest way for a hunter to win is to have board control by turn 8 and then drop a call of the wild.  Even Highmanes and Sylvanis are too slow for this deck.  Plus they inevitably get hexed or poly'd or entombed, because the opponent knows that those are the biggest threats.  Plus hunters have no good natural cycle which is just a killer because it forces you to play cards like loot hoarder and azure drake which are weak minions that don't contest the board well for their mana cost.  

 

I've had much more success recently with my N'zoth/Auctioneer rogue deck and my C'thun/Reno warlock.  I think I won like 8 games in a row with the Warlock deck on Friday.  Rogues have better early game removal and better card draw mechanics than a hunter, so it's easier to find the answer and also get to your N'zoth faster.

Zoo is one of the top 3 decks out there right now, turn 3 darkshire followed by turn 4 forbidden is broken. And there are so many other good cards/combos in zoo. 

 

I actually crafted Nzoth and replaced my Bear trap with it. It has won me quite a few games against control decks. I am sitting at rank 10 right now having exclusively played the hunter in ladder, about half the players I face are sporting the legendary card backs, and the deck really can beat just about anything except a perfect draw dragon priest or a tempo mage with a good out. It can also lose to most decks as well. It is not a steamroll deck, there is a lot of subtlety to it.  

 

I had a game this morning where I played a control pally all the way to the point he was taking fatigue. He dropped a doomsayer on an empty board, I hero power/pass. He follows up with 2 straight anyfins and I lose. Now, if I had dropped my nzoth in response to his doomsayer, the sticky minions would have either staved off lethal or gained me lethal depending on how the opponent played it. The point I am making is that I am still learning to play it properly, and while the answers are not easy, the deck can beat good players with good decks.

 

That being said, I have to acknowledge that hunter is not a top tier class right now. Shaman has multiple good decks that are easier to pilot, zoo remains amazing and warrior has emerged as a force. I am still going to stick with hunter this month because I do believe I can reach rank 5, but legend does not seem in the cards. I am already thinking warrior for next month. 

post #92 of 196
Thread Starter 

In the games I win with hunter I never get N'zoth down.  I'm usually ahead on board by turn 7,8,9 and I drop a CotW and I just run them over.

 

Druids give this deck the worst time with all the big taunts.  Twin Emps is a nightmare to deal with from any class.  If my opponent gets down a twin emp on turn 7 it's probably a wrap.  

 

The Reno/C'thun warlock is really powerful.  Good AOEs, healing, big minions, early game C'thun minions...I could probably run this deck up really high if I wanted.  I've just never been a warlock fan, its probably the class I least like to play.

post #93 of 196
Thread Starter 

Ok, some changes to the hunter deck.  Out is acidmaw, in are a couple of deadly shots.  Ram Wrangler has also made an appearance, along with a cult master and a starving buzzard.  Gone are the Azure Drakes and one loot hoarder.  I've actually beaten two pallys and a priest with this deck, and I'm farming shamans and warlocks for some reason.  

 

The Ram Wrangler is such a swing card.  I want to put two in the deck, but nothing is worse than getting to turn 5 with no board and only a ram wrangler to play.  It's the same reason I only have one Houndmaster in the deck.  Infested wolf is an autokeep for me.  The two cards I look for off the top are bear trap and Infested Wolf.  Getting a 3/3 taunt for two mana to pop is such value.  I've got two highmanes in the deck again, although I'm considering dropping one for a stampeding Kodo.  I'd also like to get a Emperor in the deck to potentially get to Call of the Wild one turn faster.  That's the card that actually wins games for me.

post #94 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob loblaw View Post
 

Ok, some changes to the hunter deck.  Out is acidmaw, in are a couple of deadly shots.  Ram Wrangler has also made an appearance, along with a cult master and a starving buzzard.  Gone are the Azure Drakes and one loot hoarder.  I've actually beaten two pallys and a priest with this deck, and I'm farming shamans and warlocks for some reason.  

 

The Ram Wrangler is such a swing card.  I want to put two in the deck, but nothing is worse than getting to turn 5 with no board and only a ram wrangler to play.  It's the same reason I only have one Houndmaster in the deck.  Infested wolf is an autokeep for me.  The two cards I look for off the top are bear trap and Infested Wolf.  Getting a 3/3 taunt for two mana to pop is such value.  I've got two highmanes in the deck again, although I'm considering dropping one for a stampeding Kodo.  I'd also like to get a Emperor in the deck to potentially get to Call of the Wild one turn faster.  That's the card that actually wins games for me.

I love our ongoing discussions on this deck.

 

I can't use Ram Wrangler, it will only summon parrots and crabs for me.

 

Bear trap is a great card, cutting him for Nzoth hurts some matchups and helps others. Aggro Shaman has become more difficult since I took the bear out. 

 

I run two houndmasters, worst case scenario I play him on turn 5 or 6 with a beast. 

 

Two Highmanes cuz they are great and Nzoth. \

 

Loot hoarders remain becuase of Nzoth and the princess, however, I do consider cutting them for a second Unleash.

 

You seem to be moving in a more control/value direction. I am trying to keep a quick tempo turn to turn. I will even play a sole houndmaster on an empty board turn 4 if that is my best tempo play.  The more I play this game against high level players, the more I see that tempo is incredibly important. 

post #95 of 196
Thread Starter 

Re:  Ram Wrangler

 

The last 3 games last night produced a 3/3 bear taunt, a 3/4 monkey taunt, and the 5/5 Stranglethorn Tiger from the Wrangler.  In the game that I got the Tiger I was playing a healadin, and it forced him to use his second equality/pyro combo to clear the board.  That allowed me to put out my Nzoth on the next turn without fear of him killing those minions.  It can really swing a game.  Of course, you will have those occasions where you will get an angry chicken, even then its 4/4 worth of stats for 5 mana...not good, but not the end of the world either.  And there will also be those games where it will produce a highmane, or a king crush or that new 8/8 beast, and those would probably be autowins.  I'm really considering putting a 2nd one in, but I like the balance my current deck has.

 

Re:  aggro

 

I've done pretty well against aggro.  2 bear traps + 2 explosive traps help a lot.  Both offer such good value.  And now I have deadly shots for when the shaman throws down the 7/7 on turn 4.  

post #96 of 196
Thread Starter 

My current deck:

 

2 hunter's mark

2 bear traps

2 explosive traps

1 loot hoarder

1 frog

1 carrion grub

2 Unleash

2 Deadly Shots

2 Kill Commands

2 Animal companions

1 Eaglehorn bow

1 Dreadscale

2 Infested Wolves

1 Cult Master

1 Houndmaster

1 Ram Wrangler

1 Starving Buzzard

2 Highmanes

2 Call of the Wilds

1 N'zoth

 

A lot of low cost removal in this deck.  Unleash, traps, and Dreadscale keep aggro at bay while Hunter's Mark and Deadly shots get rid of big minions and taunts.  I've beaten the last 3 Healadins and the last 2 priests I've faced.  C'thun Druids are still a problem because they can throw out a lot of big early minions and a lot of big taunts later, but fortunately they are not too popular.  

 

I will always keep an infested wolf in my starting hand, it sets up a potential Houndmaster/Ram Wrangler/Starving Buzzard play on the next turn.  I will usually keep a bear trap, especially vs. a shaman or a warlock.  

post #97 of 196

very cool. I am currently stuck at level 9 with my version, but I have not had much time to play.

 

I really like all the draw in your deck, do you think you might have too much draw? Do you often find yourself losing with large hands?

post #98 of 196
Thread Starter 

I don't think it's possible to have too much draw with a hunter.   The biggest problem I would have as a hunter was running out of steam by turn 8 or 9.  There is only 3 sources of draw in the deck, but you get your draw in bursts similar to a rogue with sprint or auctioneer.  So you really only need one turn per game to replenish your hand and keep it going.  A paladin has 3 1/1 minions out, boom, unleash + cult master or buzzard will draw you 3 cards.  Works the same vs. aggro.  

post #99 of 196
Thread Starter 

I'm very bullish on the deck now because I think I'm riding a 6 game win streak (I went from rank 13 no stars to rank 11 with 5 stars).  My tune could change tomorrow.  But the deck really does have everything.  AoE damage, single target removal, burst damage potential, pretty low curve (only 5 cards that cost 6 mana or higher).  A few days ago I would have told you that a hunter couldn't hang with a pally or a priest.  Now I feel like I have a good shot at beating anything, which is really all I want.  

post #100 of 196
Thread Starter 

6-1 last night.  Up to rank 9.  Foolishly used up my dust to craft 2 gold Call of the Wild cards, but whatever, its a glorious looking card.  It's my goal to have a completely golden hunter deck.  Still waiting for the other shoe to drop and my enthusiasm to wain for this deck, but it hasn't happened yet.  Ran into a freeze mage and lost.  Was one turn away from killing it of course but he had both of his iceblocks ready.  Almost lost to a miracle rogue because of concealed minions.  If this continues to happen I may have to consider fitting a flare into the deck somehow. 

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