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The Wolf of Wall Street Post-Release

post #1 of 463
Thread Starter 

Is my search failing me? I'm shocked no one is talking about this. Or is everyone too wrapped-up in Christmas?

A bit overlong, and seemingly aimless at times, but I wouldn't have cut a thing. The movie has a lot of energy for a 3 hour movie, which really didn't make me mind that it could have easily been 2 hours. It's REALLY funny. DiCaprio is fantastic in it (and his physical comedy moments are great). Hill is fantastic in it. It's most similar to Casino, I'd say, but instead of mobster casino managers and violence, it's stockbrokers and sex (a surprising amount of sex and nudity in this one*). It's almost too much to process how many fun moments are scattered all over the movie. So many that I'm having a hard time remembering many of my favorites. But oh god, the quaaludes and the pay phone, leading to the astounding Popeye moment. 

Jon Bernthal is actually good in it, and I was shocked. I thought he was pretty awful on the Walking Dead, but then again a lot of things are awful in that show. 
This leads me to something interesting I've noticed about DiCaprio-era Scorsese. Actors are frequently doing "the DeNiro thing" (picking up some of his ticks and mannerisms, especially the tough guy stuff). Day-Lewis did it a bit in Gangs of New York. Leo occasionally busted it out in the Departed. In this one it's Bernthal, especially the scene by the strip mall with Hill.


*Nearly-packed theater + lots of kids (arg you stupid parents) + lots of fuckin' = several walkouts.

post #2 of 463

Saw it today as well and loved it. Probably will end up my number one this year. I agree that it may be a bit too long, but then again I could watch this for another 12 hours and not put up a fight one bit.

 

As legitimately great as DiCaprio is here (I actually think he should win Best Actor this year but he probably won't even get nominated) Jonah Hill is almost equally great. Both doing the best work they've ever done IMO. Even minor characters like the aformentioned Bernthal (looking a bit like Trejo in HEAT) and the toupee guy feel lived in and integral to the film. 

 

Scorsese does a bang up job, as is tradition. I thought it was cool that he used the TAXI DRIVER end-of-shootout shot for a less violent, if no less debauched scene here. This is his best since THE AVIATOR, if not GOODFELLAS. 

 

Needless to say this is a must-see for any true cinephile out there.


Edited by nagboy92 - 12/27/13 at 11:16am
post #3 of 463

Probably 15-20 minutes too long, but I was never bored. Best film I've seen this year, although I haven't seen a lot of the Best Pic contenders. Leo and Hill are both great, and MY GOD is Margot Robbie hot.

post #4 of 463
Most I laughed in a theater this year. Couple that with the movie's frankly dystiopian ending, I'm wrestling with all kinds of emotions over here. Huge salute to Scorscesse for the last act, might narrow the field of idiots looking at this movie as inspiration,but then again they're idiots.
post #5 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post

Most I laughed in a theater this year. Couple that with the movie's frankly dystiopian ending, I'm wrestling with all kinds of emotions over here. Huge salute to Scorscesse for the last act, might narrow the field of idiots looking at this movie as inspiration,but then again they're idiots.

Yeah, the end was a gutpunch. The look on the audience's eager faces, their yearning to have Belfort's wealth and power, was palpable.

 

There were a few moments of extended improv that didn't quite work for me. I felt the scene with Jonah Hill sarcastically busting Rob Reiner's balls in Leo's office went a bit too long, but despite the occasional indulgences, it was never enough to completely take me out of the movie. 

post #6 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 

Yeah, the end was a gutpunch. The look on the audience's eager faces, their yearning to have Belfort's wealth and power, was palpable.

 

And the "country club prison", as well. "Hey, I'm rich!".

post #7 of 463
It is almost exactly the ending to Goodfellas in a different context.

But it's fantastic.

We may shake our heads at the life of crime these guys led, but we're still the suckers.
post #8 of 463

This may have had one of the best uses of the "okay, stop laughing" gearshifts I've ever seen. The first time he hits his wife it feels expected but the second time when he literally punches her in the gut you feel that same way and it isn't just hedonistic fun and games anymore.

post #9 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagboy92 View Post
 

This may have had one of the best uses of the "okay, stop laughing" gearshifts I've ever seen. The first time he hits his wife it feels expected but the second time when he literally punches her in the gut you feel that same way and it isn't just hedonistic fun and games anymore.

Going in, I actually expected the movie to go darker overall, but yeah that was like "Oh cripes". Then thinking he was going to hurt/kill his daughter by mistake immediately afterwards.

post #10 of 463

I talked to a friend who saw it at a screening last week and told me that he heard some guy cheering in the theater in that moment.

 

The most creeped out he'd been at the movies.

post #11 of 463
Thread Starter 

Scorsese has really cemented himself as one of the best (not that he had to) by keeping up this level of quality work into his older years.

I think he's just doing it as a "fuck you" to Tarantino's "old directors" theory (which is, to be fair, almost always true).

post #12 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

I talked to a friend who saw it at a screening last week and told me that he heard some guy cheering in the theater in that moment.

 

The most creeped out he'd been at the movies.

Ew.
 

The audience I was with responded properly. "Uggg"

post #13 of 463

Even more than the quality of the work... it's the sheer balls out energy.  

 

He's still offending and pissing off certain members of the Academy!  YESSSSSSS

 

https://www.facebook.com/hope.holiday/posts/10202652132126775

 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/goldstandard/la-et-mn-wolf-of-wall-street-academy-oscars-20131222,0,6811104.story

post #14 of 463
Thread Starter 

Just remembered this one:

How the hell did the FBI get the yellow note he passed to Hill saying he was wearing a wire?

post #15 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

Even more than the quality of the work... it's the sheer balls out energy.  

 

He's still offending and pissing off certain members of the Academy!  YESSSSSSS

 

https://www.facebook.com/hope.holiday/posts/10202652132126775

 

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/envelope/goldstandard/la-et-mn-wolf-of-wall-street-academy-oscars-20131222,0,6811104.story

Martin Scorsese is the new Michael Bay!

post #16 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post

Just remembered this one:


How the hell did the FBI get the yellow note he passed to Hill saying he was wearing a wire?

I remember having an explanation for that, but I can't remember it right now!!!

Perhaps they dug it out of the trash?
post #17 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post


I remember having an explanation for that, but I can't remember it right now!!!

Perhaps they dug it out of the trash?

I didn't catch it, whatever it was. Thing is, I remember that segment really clearly. As opposed to "my favorite moments", many of which are eluding me now.

I think it just cuts from his conversation with Hill (and Hill placing the napkin back over the card), to DiCaprio waking up to the fuzz!

post #18 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

I remember having an explanation for that, but I can't remember it right now!!!

Perhaps they dug it out of the trash?

I thought Azoff had saved it for them, but that didn't appear to be the case. 

 

The filmmaking is urgent and vital, but those final country club/seminar sequences have a dark, chilling impact, more resonant than I'd expected. I kept thinking about another sequence from Goodfellas throughout the film, and the final moments cemented for me that the ultimate message of the film is "Fuck you, pay me."

post #19 of 463
Thread Starter 

This movie is the last act of Goodfellas, but with no paranoia and more fuckin'.

post #20 of 463
I don't know why it blows my mind that Margot Robbie is 23. But it does.
post #21 of 463

Fucking amazing.  Packed theater, and apart from an elderly couple who walked out an hour in, they all seemed riveted.  Let's be honest, this is DiCaprio's best work.  Ever.  He fucking owns the screen every second he is on it.  Jonah Hill is great.  Amazing gut punch of an ending. 

 

Also.....was Leo blowing coke into that girl's ass at the beginning?

post #22 of 463

Probably out of it.  Why would he use coke on anyone except himself?

 

Though... he seemed to be a very giving employer...

post #23 of 463
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dross View Post
 

 

Also.....was Leo blowing coke into that girl's ass at the beginning?

Hahaha yes. Things are obviously out of control.

Another question: Why was DiCaprio so worried about his 20 million when his boat (with helipad!) looked like it was worth around that figure? Or do I not know how to price things.

And another: Was the plane exploding during the ship scene blissful thinking?

There were some very weird moments in the movie, like the inner monologue between DiCaprio and the Swiss banker.

post #24 of 463

The use of voiceover in this movie is the best.

 

Especially when it goes from off-screen narration... to on-screen fourth wall breaking... right into an actual conversation that has nothing to do with the narration.

 

Why wouldn't DiCaprio be worried about 20 million?  He deals with such an abstraction of money (due to the excessive amounts he has) that it's not about ACTUAL worth.  It's about holding onto what is his.  

And I'll bet the boat with the helipad isn't quite 20 million.

post #25 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post
 

Hahaha yes. Things are obviously out of control.

Another question: Why was DiCaprio so worried about his 20 million when his boat (with helipad!) looked like it was worth around that figure? Or do I not know how to price things.

And another: Was the plane exploding during the ship scene blissful thinking?

There were some very weird moments in the movie, like the inner monologue between DiCaprio and the Swiss banker.

 

I was wondering about the plane too.  No one else reacted to it.

 

Has anyone read the book?  Is it worth reading?

post #26 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexus-7 View Post


And another: Was the plane exploding during the ship scene blissful thinking?

I kept thinking that the plane explosion and the moments where Leo would address the camera about his schemes (before stopping and saying the audience didn't care about the nuts and bolts anyway) were clues that he was delivering bullshit testimony to the FBI, but no. He was just an unrepentant bullshitter. The plane story is bizarre and ludicrous, but is it really that crazy compared to everything else?

post #27 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangy View Post
 Leo and Hill are both great, and MY GOD is Margot Robbie hot.


I love it, it's every guy talking about the cast of every movie ever. "The men were soooo talented... and the woman was a thing I liked looking at and thinking about fucking! Great movie!"

post #28 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Benenson View Post


I love it, it's every guy talking about the cast of every movie ever. "The men were soooo talented... and the woman was a thing I liked looking at and thinking about fucking! Great movie!"

Dan busted me, so I'll go ahead and confess: I enjoy looking at beautiful women. Apologies everyone.

 

She also did a great job doing a New Yawk accent, good enough that I thought "I bet she's not an American actress." I was right.

post #29 of 463
Dan isn't wrong about the way people express this stuff in general.

I certainly do it too at times, though I've been trying to catch myself on it.

My comment about Margot Robbie's age... I was just kinda taken by how great she was in selling her world weary maturity by the end. Especially in a film that is so utterly guy-centered that also wallows in the commodification of women.

She just gives off an older vibe. I would've assumed that she was around 30.
post #30 of 463

To be fair, the few female roles in the film are pretty underwritten.  I think Robie did great with what she had, as did Cristin Milioti as Leo's first wife, but they aren't very showy roles.

 

Edit: I just watched Goodfellas last night, and Lorraine Bracco has a much showier role in that than any of the actresses in Wolf.

post #31 of 463
Thread Starter 

Nordling's review:
http://www.aintitcool.com/node/65486

Nitpick. I think this has the best drug humor since Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (after that, maybe Lebowski, which keeps it relatively low key), but then again I've never loved Cheech and Chong. The bit from Fear and Loathing with Depp and Del Toro entering Circus Circus (Bazingo's Circus or somesuch in the movie) is also a similar bit of awesome physical comedy to some of the amazing stuff in Wolf (his fall into the pool in addition to everything leading up to the "POPEYE!!!" moment. The pool may have have been a stuntman because it looked like he seriously twisted his ankle).

Devin's review:
http://badassdigest.com/2013/12/23/the-wolf-of-wall-street-movie-review-scorsese-makes-stocksfellas/

I mentioned Tarantino's "old directors" theory when I wrote about this on Facebook as well. I think he's mostly dead-on, but i didn't find it the masterpiece he did. At the same time, the first time I saw the Departed I just thought it was really good, and that movie has over a little bit of time revealed itself to be sooo incredibly rewatchable and great, so who knows?

I may ask this in another thread as well, but how do Goodfellas and Casino look on Blu?

post #32 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

It is almost exactly the ending to Goodfellas in a different context.

But it's fantastic.

We may shake our heads at the life of crime these guys led, but we're still the suckers.


Interesting that that's what you got out of it. I thought Dicaprio's character was a husk by the end, existing to dig deeper into a pit of debauchery and nightmares.

 

This movie was the most anti-capitalistic thing I've ever seen.

 

EDIT: And the fed's got the yellow note because Hill had ratted him out. Look at his performance with Dicaprio during the scene. The fact that he wasn't arrested in the fed raid. Its pretty obvious.

post #33 of 463

Pfft. My buddy and I were talking about the Tarantino thing immediately after seeing the film. Tarantino can go fuck himself. Dude doesn't make movies half this good now. So, shaddup.

 

Like others in this thread, I enjoy looking at beautiful women. I don't think that anyone is supposed to feel bad about that. I think what people should feel bad about is reducing women to nothing but objects through brutal male gazing, but I think there's a fucking humongous line between that and the other. Part of the point of the film, I think, is to toe that line in big ways, because we're seeing the world through the eyes of Belfort and Donnie. I also think it's worth talking about how far over the line the film goes and how that influences its meaning, but I don't see how anyone could, say, watch this film and describe it as an endorsement of that male gaze.

 

Or the activities Belfort gets up to. Wolf is all about how being rich really does make it better; there's no up-front, diect moralizing that decries Belfort's philosophies and transgressions directly. Not even Chandler has enough screen time or dialogue to inject that morality here - he's kind of an agent of divine justice that swoops down from the heavens and ruins Belfort's day at the perfect time. (I don't think it's an accident that Scorsese chooses to have Belfort carted off during the filming of that phony baloney infomercial.) Everything leading up to that final 40 minutes is Good Times, if of course your idea of "Good Times" involves gang-fucking cheap hookers on an office desk or sinking a fucking yacht in Italian waters. (Craziest shit of the movie: that really fucking happened.) Or, uh, swindling countless people, innocent and not so innocent alike. (Either way, though, they're still gullible.)

 

2013 has been largely defined by films about corruption, avarice, greed, reckless self-indulgence, and the heights of excess, all contextualized around the American dream. (Well, okay, not all. The Taste of Money and The Great Beauty are both about these things but they're not American. I guess it's on everyone's minds, but the majority of these films are American, so.) Spring Breakers, Blue Jasmine, The Bling Ring, Pain & Gain, The Great Gatsby...even films like Catching Fire and Elysium, which approach these ideas through a genre lens. Now we have American Hustle, and The Wolf of Wall Street. The reason why Wolf, for me, tops each of these is that it reflects reality in a way most of them don't; Belfort, for everything visited on him by the law and by Naomi, still comes out ahead. Nearly everyone in these films receives comeuppance on some level or experiences a downfall, but where so many of them end up dead, broken down, humiliated, or penniless, Belfort's still out there. Selling. Hustling. And that's a scary thought.

 

He suffers a defeat, but he recovers from it better than everyone else. And I think that's the truth about being rich: you can do what you want and get away with it if you have enough capital. Belfort's money and position give him the opportunity to cut deals that his employees don't. We don't even see where these people end up after Denham barges into Stratton Oakmont and carts their asses off to jail, but it's pretty easy to conclude that they had their lives ruined by the sting. (And, by extension, Belfort.)

 

All told, this is a pretty pissed-off film. And it has the fire and energy of a film made by a much, much younger man. I hope Scorsese never stops making movies, but if this is one of his last hurrahs before throwing in the towel (I know he was theoretically going to work on Silence next), then no complaints. Few people make movies this good in their 40s. Scorsese is just the king.

post #34 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post


Interesting that that's what you got out of it. I thought Dicaprio's character was a husk by the end, existing to dig deeper into a pit of debauchery and nightmares.

This movie was the most anti-capitalistic thing I've ever seen.

All of that is true, but it's balanced out by moments like the one Kyle Chandler has in the subway train, DiCaprio talking about how much he wants to kill himself out of sheer boredom, and the fact that we all want to get rich quick... but don't, because we can't sell a pen.

The point I was making was that the film counts on our own morality to judge the characters without the film having to do any cheap moralizing.
post #35 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post


All of that is true, but it's balanced out by moments like the one Kyle Chandler has in the subway train, DiCaprio talking about how much he wants to kill himself out of sheer boredom, and the fact that we all want to get rich quick... but don't, because we can't sell a pen.

The point I was making was that the film counts on our own morality to judge the characters without the film having to do any cheap moralizing.

 

And that's why its moralizing is strong, at least to me. The themes are just so powerfully put, but you have to work at unworking it out yourself.

 

I think this is not only why I think this movie is not another GOODFELLAS (that's AMERICAN HUSTLE), its why I think its even BETTER.

post #36 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post
 

 

And that's why its moralizing is strong, at least to me. The themes are just so powerfully put, but you have to work at unworking it out yourself.

 

Well, wouldn't that just support the idea that the moralizing is intangible? I'll totally agree that that's more or less the point - Scorsese isn't overtly trying to preach to us, he's giving us the chance to inject our own ethics into sussing out his narrative. But I don't think that's the same thing as strong moralizing.

post #37 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post

 

I think this is not only why I think this movie is not another GOODFELLAS (that's AMERICAN HUSTLE), its why I think its even BETTER.

 

Let's not go crazy. GoodFellas is much tighter, and one of the greatest American films of all time. Wolf is excellent, but maybe we should hold off before we play Can You Top This, Hyperbole Edition.

post #38 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by agracru View Post
 

 

Well, wouldn't that just support the idea that the moralizing is intangible? I'll totally agree that that's more or less the point - Scorsese isn't overtly trying to preach to us, he's giving us the chance to inject our own ethics into sussing out his narrative. But I don't think that's the same thing as strong moralizing.

 

Having an audience work at scrabbling out what the author intended is going to impact them a hell of a lot more than blaring paragraphs of Das Kapital at them ever can.

 

EDIT: ^^^ I tend to be pretty emotional right after watching stuff I really like, so yeah maybe that statement could use a few days (or weeks or years) before being set into stone.

 

EDIT 2: VVV And it feels so gooooood

post #39 of 463
My brain is exploding!!!
post #40 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post
 

 

Having an audience work at scrabbling out what the author intended is going to impact them a hell of a lot more than blaring paragraphs of Das Kapital at them ever can.

 

Well...sure! But that's still not an example of Scorsese moralizing and using his film as a soap box directly. If Chandler had more presence in the film and if the denouement didn't involve that shot of Chandler on the subway, I think we could talk about there being lots of moralizing woven right into the text. I totally agree that having viewers unpack the movie for themselves will ultimately mean a lot more to them in the long run, but I think Scorsese is being moral by being immoral: he's saying, "hey, look at how disgusting all of this shit is".

post #41 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali View Post
 

 

Having an audience work at scrabbling out what the author intended is going to impact them a hell of a lot more than blaring paragraphs of Das Kapital at them ever can.

 

EDIT: ^^^ I tend to be pretty emotional right after watching stuff I really like, so yeah maybe that statement could use a few days (or weeks or years) before being set into stone.

 

There's nothing you're saying that I don't agree with. What he did was show how utterly reprehensible these dudes are, which is more effective than Chandler or some third party going on about their victims or whatnot. Its up to the audience to pick up on that, which not all people are doing (even people like Nordling, I guess).

post #42 of 463

The payphone sequence needs to be Leonardo's Oscar reel.

post #43 of 463
BENI-FUCKING-HANA!!!!
 
I heard this was good--Hell, I knew this was going to be good. And yet somehow--SOMEHOW--this manages to exceed all of my expectations. This is easily the funniest movie of the year; I cannot remember the last time I laughed this hard at anything: Hill's cousin-fucking monologue to the entirety of the  on Quads bit. everything about this film struck gold for me. I swear, Wolf is the cinematic equivalent of that gigantic mound of cocaine at the end of Scarface, we just spend the entire three hours of its running time snorting that shit up. And then that last act--boy did I sober up fast. That shot of Kyle Chandler, "The hero," starring gloomily in the subway station, and Dicaprio's "Oh wait--I'm fucking rich" epiphany, that was definitely a gut-punch moment.
 
So it was alright, I guess.
post #44 of 463

Saw this at midnight on Christmas Eve.

 

That sound you heard was Martin Scorsese dropping the mic on Santa Claus, Michael Bay, and David O. Russell.

post #45 of 463

In regards to the payphone scene - I thought it played like a mini-sequel to What's Eating Gilbert Grape.

post #46 of 463

Just saw it.  I'm reeling with disgust and delight.  What a fabulous movie!  This will be DiCaprio's defining performance.

Bonus points for:

Steve Buscemi cameo

 

Popeye The Sailor cameo (I almost got a hernia from laughing)

 

And the cameo from that stinking little bastard Belfort himself, introducing DiCaprio in the seminar.  Seeing his name in the credits made the ending even more disturbing than it already was.

 

post #47 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by PBar View Post
 

Saw this at midnight on Christmas Eve.

 

That sound you heard was Martin Scorsese dropping the mic on Santa Claus, Michael Bay, and David O. Russell.

Right?  Awww, Pain and Gain? How cute. Now this is how a real adult makes a satire.

post #48 of 463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ska Oreo View Post
 

Right?  Awww, Pain and Gain? How cute. Now this is how a real adult makes a satire.

"Aww, that was cute David. Now go back to making small comedies and let me show you how it's really done, son."

-Martin Scorsese

post #49 of 463

Funny. Years ago O'Russell puts Spike Jonze in Three Kings. This year O'Russell makes essentially a Scorsese movie. Scorsese puts Spike Jonze in Wolf. And All three could end up in best director category this year.

post #50 of 463

How INCESTUOUS!

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