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2016: God is Dead

post #1 of 22490
Thread Starter 

Don't blame me, the Clinton Machine is already coming to life:

 

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/01/hillary-clinton-2016-shadow-campaign-101762.html

post #2 of 22490

I'd definitely vote for Hillary if she decides to run.  She really is in a unique position to become the first female US president, and I'd hope that she'd surprise me in office.  Personally I'd like to see what happened in NY with De Blasio happen federally, like a Bernie Sanders/Elizabeth Warren ticket, but I know that'll never happen. 

post #3 of 22490

Sure, I'd vote for Hillary over ANY Repub, but if she's elected, does anything change?   Moderate, corporate-friendly Democrat getting utterly stonewalled by a petty congress?  I'm watching that right now!

post #4 of 22490

I'm voting De Blasio 2016.  I don't even give a shit!

post #5 of 22490

 

"So it begins."

post #6 of 22490

A woman in charge?

It worked so well in Australia.

Every misogynistic, corporate controlled lackey, found everything to be fair game.

It was utterly repulsive and foul, to watch.

 

And now we have a protector of pedophiles in charge.

 

filth always wins

post #7 of 22490
It worked pretty damn well in NZ. Helen Clark may have ended up in the dreaded UN, but while she was in charge (for three terms) NZ was prosperous and world-leading in several fields (not just movie SFX).

We didn't win the rugby World Cup until a dude was back in charge though.
post #8 of 22490

Oh she is going to run but the next 12 months will tell us what her odds are of actually winning are. 2016 has the possibility to be kind of a weird year. Even though she has  currently no control whatsoever over the heathcare law and the economy, if those two factors don't improve it might cost her the election. People are pretty stupid and would blame Dems in general for their dissatisfaction. On the other hand, what issues do the Republicans still realistically have left to run on?    

post #9 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post

On the other hand, what issues do the Republicans still realistically have left to run on?


Being white men.
post #10 of 22490
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbrother View Post
 

Oh she is going to run but the next 12 months will tell us what her odds are of actually winning are. 2016 has the possibility to be kind of a weird year. Even though she has  currently no control whatsoever over the heathcare law and the economy, if those two factors don't improve it might cost her the election. People are pretty stupid and would blame Dems in general for their dissatisfaction. On the other hand, what issues do the Republicans still realistically have left to run on?    


It cuts both ways though.  There will be a mass of voters with nothing but rose-colored glasses for the 90's, and if she can make a show of being this comforting, guiding hand, I think that will work.

 

But like Neil Spurn says, people may just want the familiarity of rich white guy in office.

post #11 of 22490
I feel as long as Obamacare is successful than there is no way the Republicans can take power. Also if the Democrats creep further to the left and run on economic equality as they are rumored to be doing in 2014 (maybe after the success of DeBlasio) than the GOP are in huge trouble. I feel the only person in the GOP that could win the presidency in 2016 is Chris Christie. But apart from that the rest look like complete losers. The other serious candidates would be Jeb Bush, Paul Ryan or Scott Walker. But doubt any of them could get the nom.
post #12 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post
 


It cuts both ways though.  There will be a mass of voters with nothing but rose-colored glasses for the 90's, and if she can make a show of being this comforting, guiding hand, I think that will work.

 

 

I can imagine she will trot Bill out as much as possible too to get people wanting to go back to "the good old days." Hell, I wonder if we will get another badass Bill Clinton Democratic Convention speech in a few years.  

post #13 of 22490
 

I've posted it before and I'll post it again:
 
Quote:
 The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
post #14 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

Don't blame me, the Clinton Machine is already coming to life:

Hillary's been running for President in 2016 since Election Day, 2008. Make no mistake: Christie, Cruz, and Perry are already running, too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TzuDohNihm View Post



Napolitano spells out exactly why I'll make 2016 the second presidential election of my adult life that I've sat out if Hillary is the nominee. The first was in 1996. When I look back at the Clinton years, I remember a President who inherited the international political situation that made a balanced budget possible while accelerating the outsourcing of America's manufacturing work via NAFTA. The Democratic Party cannot continue to nominate Wall Street sellouts if this country is going to continue to have a working class.
post #15 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post


Hillary's been running for President in 2016 since Election Day, 2008. Make no mistake: Christie, Cruz, and Perry are already running, too.
Napolitano spells out exactly why I'll make 2016 the second presidential election of my adult life that I've sat out if Hillary is the nominee. The first was in 1996. When I look back at the Clinton years, I remember a President who inherited the international political situation that made a balanced budget possible while accelerating the outsourcing of America's manufacturing work via NAFTA. The Democratic Party cannot continue to nominate Wall Street sellouts if this country is going to continue to have a working class.

 

While the thought of Hillary may not be appealing to you, would you really want someone (anyone) from the GOP as POTUS?

 

If you think HC would be a Wall Street sellout and/or decimate the middle class of this country, any GOP candidate would be a guarantee it happened.

post #16 of 22490
I don't think there's a Republican candidate who can stop oozing evil from every pore of his skin long enough to have a televised debate with Hillary without lapsing into speaking in tongues, let alone beat her. 2016 might be the first year that every GOP candidate drops out of the race after Iowa. Is it too much to ask that we make the woman win some primaries against an honest-to-God liberal first, though?
_
Edited by Reasor - 1/7/14 at 10:14pm
post #17 of 22490

Reasor, as VTran said, there's a huge difference between a Republican and even a corporate Democrat.  The Dem party has to be changed from within.  And the political system has to be changed from the ground up.  Money is running things these days, and given that reality, throwing your hands up in the air and letting this country turn into Somalia isn't the answer.  It took 40 years (at least) to get it where it is today; it's not going to change overnight, and (I think) anyone who wastes his or her vote when the most ignorant it's-cold-outside-Al-Gore-is-a-joke Republican/Independent/Tea Partier will be happy to take that vote is a fool.

post #18 of 22490
So can we not primary Hillary then? Is that not how we change the party's direction, by putting a minimum of two candidates on a stage and making them compete for the cheers from the segment of the crowd that finds murdering civilians by drone to be a disgrace? I know that Hillary did pretty well in 2008 by campaigning against Hope and Change themselves, but has the despair sunk in so deeply since then that we'll take another Clinton and act like we're proud to vote for her?
post #19 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

I don't think there's a Republican candidate who can stop oozing evil from every poor of his skin long enough to have a televised debate with Hillary without lapsing into speaking in tongues, let alone beat her. 2016 might be the first year that every GOP candidate drops out of the race after Iowa. Is it too much to ask that we make the woman win some primaries against an honest-to-God liberal first, though?

If 2012 is anything to go by the attacks will be much worse. They have so much contempt for the female gender and still believe we should be locked in our rooms till marriage, than service men anyway they want and only cook, clean and birth their children. Look at the laws they've passed lately, they show no respect for females at all. Now imagine a female being the Commander in Chief? So my bet is the GOP will do anything to stop that from happening. God this will be ugly. We'll be wishing for the relative sanity of the Republicans in the Obama Administration, as insane as that sounds, if Hillary wins. I remember my older family members in the ninties talking about how awful the Republicans were than but following a black president to a woman might make their heads explode Scanners style!
post #20 of 22490

Hey, I'd love to see Elizabeth Warren up there but if she were to get the Dem nomination, the GOP would stand a chance of winning as she would be painted as an "extreme libruul" by the right wing...which, admittedly, she sorta is when compared to HC.

 

As it stands now, if Christie is the GOP nom., there are too many meathead, honeybooboo idiots out there that would vote for him for the sole reason of "he seems like a guy I could have a beer with."

Fuck that....been there once already.

post #21 of 22490

yt and other Californians, and everyone else

 

What are your thoughts on Jerry Moonbeam Brown?

 

I like him and appreciate the turn around he's accomplished for the state, but I don't fully support him.  I think that I heard he supported for profit prisons which I don't support at all.

 

Anyway I have heard a few people mention him for 2016 in spite of his age.  And I like him in general, he speaks pretty directly.  He probably fits better as a governor though.

post #22 of 22490
I don't see Christie getting very far, to be honest. I can't see a party that defines itself as culturally southern nominating someone who could not be more of a New England yankee if he tried. George W. Bush was willing to cosplay as a Texan for years to earn the voters' trust; Christie won't do that, and he won't pretend to have had a humbling religious experience, the way Dubya did in order to turn his cocaine years into a net positive.

I think Cruz stands a better chance of winning his party's nomination. The only discernible personality trait this guy has displayed is that he hates all the right Americans, and voters can project the rest of what they want onto him at this early stage of the game.
post #23 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylander View Post
 

yt and other Californians, and everyone else

 

What are your thoughts on Jerry Moonbeam Brown?

 

I like him and appreciate the turn around he's accomplished for the state, but I don't fully support him.  I think that I heard he supported for profit prisons which I don't support at all.

 

Anyway I have heard a few people mention him for 2016 in spite of his age.  And I like him in general, he speaks pretty directly.  He probably fits better as a governor though.


I like him, but IMO, he's too old for POTUS.  He's 75 and I like the idea of someone a bit younger as they would hopefully be more open to change....hopefully.

 

Now, I realize that HC is up there as well (66) but the idea of a woman president is something that 'balances' out my age discrimination. ; )

 

Also, I get the feeling that JB is getting ready to retire soon...a run for POTUS is pretty stressful.

post #24 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

I don't see Christie getting very far, to be honest. I can't see a party that defines itself as culturally southern nominating someone who could not be more of a New England yankee if he tried. George W. Bush was willing to cosplay as a Texan for years to earn the voters' trust; Christie won't do that, and he won't pretend to have had a humbling religious experience, the way Dubya did in order to turn his cocaine years into a net positive.

I think Cruz stands a better chance of winning his party's nomination. The only discernible personality trait this guy has displayed is that he hates all the right Americans, and voters can project the rest of what they want onto him at this early stage of the game.

 

"...George W. Bush was willing to cosplay as a Texan..."   LOL

 

As far as Cruz goes...there has been a good bit written in the last couple weeks about his renouncing his Canadian citizenship....?

post #25 of 22490

On the right, its a pretty crappy list of potential candidates

 

Chris Christie, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush, Ted Cruz, Marco Rubio, Bobby Jindal, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee ? 

 

and the sad part is, all any of them would need to do to succeed is tack hard to the center, where almost everyone else in the country is

post #26 of 22490

W also got to cosplay as Air National Guard.

 

BURN

post #27 of 22490
Huckabee wouldn't take the pay cut to become President. Oh, he could run, but it would be a promotional stunt to boost whatever media project he moves to after dropping out of the race.
post #28 of 22490

I forgot Paul Ryan as a potential Republican candidate did I forget anyone else significant?

 

Scott Walker, Rick Perry?  LOL

post #29 of 22490

Paul Ryan is slathered in Romney Stink. He's not got a shot. Christie is who I would want to see as the candidate, for the sake of my blood pressure. Or Huntsman, but hey, pipedream. Cruz would be hilarious for the first couple of months, then steadily more terrifying and unthinkable as election day approached.

post #30 of 22490
Congress is as far up the ladder as Paul Ryan is ever going to go again. He was the Burt Ward to Mitt Romney's Adam West.
post #31 of 22490

The bridge incident is starting to get more convoluted.

 

It will be interesting to see how Christie deals with it.

 

 
Quote:

 

Private messages between Governor’s Christie’s deputy chief of staff and two of his top executives at the Port Authority reveal a vindictive effort to create “traffic problems in Fort Lee” by shutting lanes to the George Washington Bridge and apparent pleasure at the resulting gridlock.
 
<cont>

 

post #32 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

So can we not primary Hillary then? Is that not how we change the party's direction, by putting a minimum of two candidates on a stage and making them compete for the cheers from the segment of the crowd that finds murdering civilians by drone to be a disgrace? I know that Hillary did pretty well in 2008 by campaigning against Hope and Change themselves, but has the despair sunk in so deeply since then that we'll take another Clinton and act like we're proud to vote for her?

 

I don't think we're there yet.  When Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich have run, they haven't even gotten a seat at the major televised debates.  As the system is organized now, it takes a billion dollars to run for president, with the Kochs and like groups spending even more than that.  Money is going to dictate federal elections until it can be changed, and it's not going to be easy to change that as long as money is running things (see the Catch-22).  When I say change the Dem party from within, I'm talking about starting local - infiltrating Dem party meetings, town halls, conventions, etc, work on local/state legislation and legislators.  This is how the party and the system will change - not by saying "Elizabeth Warren for president!" when the reality of what it would take for her to win is so nearly insurmountable (not saying it couldn't happen, but she'd need a billion dollars and the banks hate her - a badge of courage and a credential without a doubt but a problem when you're running for president.)  Same with money in politics - it's not going to happen federally for a while.  The best strategy is to start local.  A lot of towns, cities and states are doing that, and when enough of them have opened people's eyes, that will be compelling evidence for pushing Washington into some campaign finance sanity.

 

My philosophy is fairly pragmatic in that you get the best you can hope for under the current system while trying to change the party from within, which means vote for Hillary for now (to not get us deeper into this hole vis a vis a Republican president).  A third party would have so much ground to cover to catch up with the Dems, and the Dem party has an interest in the people that needs to be drawn out through populist pressure, so my money's on fixing the Dems rather than trying to start over. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylander View Post
 

yt and other Californians, and everyone else

 

What are your thoughts on Jerry Moonbeam Brown?

 

I like him and appreciate the turn around he's accomplished for the state, but I don't fully support him.  I think that I heard he supported for profit prisons which I don't support at all.

 

Anyway I have heard a few people mention him for 2016 in spite of his age.  And I like him in general, he speaks pretty directly.  He probably fits better as a governor though.

 

I love Jerry Brown but I don't think he'd be a good candidate.  He's not diplomatic enough to handle the insane obstacle course a candidate for president has to jump through.  The For Profit prisons thing is a bummer.  I think he's walking a fine line in California, trying to do as much good as he can under the circumstances, but not really fighting as much as he needs to fight to roll back the evil that has been done to this state.

post #33 of 22490
Thread Starter 

To muddy the waters, the GOP wants to run on ending poverty as well: 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/us/politics/republicans-move-to-reclaim-poverty-fighting-mantle.html?hp&_r=0

 

I could honestly see one of Clinton's talking points being repealing (overhauling?) Obamacare too.

post #34 of 22490

Well, sure, if you let all the poor people freeze to death, bam! no more poverty!

post #35 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBananaGrabber View Post

To muddy the waters, the GOP wants to run on ending poverty as well: 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/09/us/politics/republicans-move-to-reclaim-poverty-fighting-mantle.html?hp&_r=0

I could honestly see one of Clinton's talking points being repealing (overhauling?) Obamacare too.

If she repeals and goes for a single payer system (my guess is throwing everyone into either Medicare or Medicaid) than I'll be ecstatic and she would have my vote right now. If its just repealing it and not replacing anything in its place? Than no that's just dumb.

But the thing is, now I was very young in the ninties but wasn't that the Clinton's plan? And from what my mom has said it nearly destroyed the Clinton Administration, so my guess she keeps the Heritage Foundation inspired Obamacare as is and have the Republican show they were wrong and just being racist bigots.

Also as poverty goes this is a losing position for their base, I don't see Conservative voters caring for what happens to the poor and their elected Repersentatives have proven to lack insight to come up with plans or fixes to our country and society, so I'm not sold they can do anything about economic equality without a revolt from their base.
post #36 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post
 

The bridge incident is starting to get more convoluted.

 

It will be interesting to see how Christie deals with it.

 

 


This scandal might not topple him, but there's no chance he doesn't take a hit.  He's supposed to be the "sane" guy the Chamber of Commerce can throw its money at, and, regardless of any wrongdoing on his part, there will be leadership questions thrown his way come debate time. 

post #37 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Happenin View Post
 

Well, sure, if you let all the poor people freeze to death, bam! no more poverty!

It's incredibly sad and pathetic how much this seems like a genuine re-iteration of the Republican policy towards poverty.  Certainly it's the policy that much of their "base" favors, even if they're too spineless or too lacking in self-awareness to admit it. 

post #38 of 22490
Uh-oh looks like Christie might be in serious trouble. He might not even last the year as Governor. This is looking bad.

http://www.salon.com/2014/01/09/chris_christie_roadkill/
post #39 of 22490
Does anyone else think that this improves his chances in the race for the party nomination to run for President? The "conservative Governor undone by liberal conspiracy" Fox News martyrdom narrative practically writes itself.
post #40 of 22490

Apparently Fox has hardly been covering this story.

 

IMO, the fact that Christie brought up the already debunked "it was a traffic study" story shows that he's more than a little full of shit.

 

That being said, I think he's safely ensconced in a blanket of 'plausible deniability' which may very well save his ass.


It should also be noted:

Quote:
 

In a hearing before the New Jersey Assembly today, Christie pal David Wildstein insisted on invoking his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent, refusing to answer any questions about his role in the closure of the George Washington Bridge.

After refusing to answer any and all questions, the New Jersey assembly found Wildstein in contempt.

 

 

 

post #41 of 22490

I think it'll get really interesting once a couple of wrongful death lawsuit plaintiffs pop up for those people who died because emergency care people couldn't get to them.

post #42 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTRan View Post
 

Apparently Fox has hardly been covering this story.

Shepard Smith, one of the supposed "hard news" anchors, simply told people to use Google for the contents of the damning e-mails.  Seriously.

post #43 of 22490

There is a class action suit of some kind already, what a weird story.  And yeah, for the time being at least Christie's presidential hopes take a major hit from this.

post #44 of 22490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reasor View Post

Does anyone else think that this improves his chances in the race for the party nomination to run for President? The "conservative Governor undone by liberal conspiracy" Fox News martyrdom narrative practically writes itself.

 

MSNBC conservative SE Cupp said he should resign and still run for president, and a couple of internet writers have already roasted her for it.

post #45 of 22490

This is pretty good news for Hillary in 2016. There's no-one on the conservative side who could put up a fair fight against her like Christie could.

post #46 of 22490

To the first, and only, time we've given a shit about Jersey!

post #47 of 22490

On her show last night, RMaddow floated an alternate theory regarding the reasoning behind the bridge blockage....


Quote:

Rachel Maddow speculated on Thursday that the traffic closures that nearly shut down Fort Lee, New Jersey for four days at the behest of Gov. Chris Christie’s (R) ex-deputy chief of staff weren’t an act of revenge against the town’s mayor, but against Democratic state Sen. Loretta Weinberg.

 

“The leader of the Senate Democrats represents Fort Lee,” Maddow explained. “Roughly 12 hours after Governor Christie blows up at the Senate Democrats and torpedoes the career of a [state] Supreme Court justice who he likes because he says the Senate Democrats are ‘animals,’ and he is not going to let that justice lose to those animals, the leader of those ‘animals’ sees her district get the order of destruction from Governor Christie’s deputy chief of staff.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/09/rachel-maddow-fort-lees-mayor-no-there-was-another-target-of-bridge-gate/

 

It seems to be straddling the plausibility line but given the characters involved...??

post #48 of 22490
Maddow's ability to connect the dots has impressed me before. It wouldn't surprise me if she was on to the real story.
post #49 of 22490

Also, Jon Stewart had a hilarious (if not terribly insightful) takedown on the issue. Mostly, I just love it when he goes into his tough guy from New York/New Jersey shtick:

 

post #50 of 22490

When one scandal breaks, its always like a floodgate for more. 

 

 

http://gma.yahoo.com/feds-investigating-christie-39-sandy-relief-funds-132532933--abc-news-topstories.html

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