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Misogyny and the discrimination and abuse of women in the US and around the world - Page 2

post #51 of 2353

Dude Gets Stabbed After Telling Catcaller To Stop Bothering Girlfriend

 

I want to believe that we'd all stand up when we see injustice, but I know it's just not feasible. When asked why, I might point to this.

post #52 of 2353
http://time.com/3589392/comet-shirt-storm/

Yes, I'm still thinking about this because it bugs me. This is not good for feminism and there is such a thing as bad feminism. I have no issue working through all of the bad ideas before getting to the good ones, but if we're going to talk about misogyny and discrimination, you have to work through what does or does not constitute those things.

Christ, I wish there was a stronger (genuine) female presence on this site.
post #53 of 2353

Was this big outside of the little Jezebel-UK circle? I never heard about any of this until I actually read the TIME article. And that article has got a point, to be fair.

post #54 of 2353

I think it's an absolutely fair point.

 

I've generally stayed out of discussions on this one because it so easily devolves into something unproductive, since it usually just lures in the most extremist views of both sides.

post #55 of 2353
I don't think it helps to stay out of it. I'd rather voice an opinion and have it taken in a way I didn't intend, then stay quiet and miss the opportunity to get someone to think of something in a way they maybe hadn't.

That said, yes, my initial concern was that this guy had his moment, a moment a decade in the making, stolen away from him by something so grossly trivial. That concern has since expanded and now it's about the voices who will lead the future of feminism and progressive thought.
post #56 of 2353

I'll jump in when it seems like there's someone who doesn't seem to know a piece of info, but most such arguments I've seen of this online have been of people who have already made up their minds and are arguing not about the actual topic, but more against whoever is disagreeing (usually those that extrapolate this thing to be emblematic of everything wrong with the BIG PICTURE).

post #57 of 2353
I get that. I'm a privacy junkie, so my online presence is blissfully limited, and I don't think every thought that pops into my head needs a public outlet, but things like this are upsetting to me because it's coming from people whose politics are not wholly removed from my own.

I don't care to comment on every little thing that spews forth from the Beck's and Limbaugh's and Palin's of the world because they butter their toast with bullshit anyway, I'm far more impassioned about "minding the store". We've got some good stuff in that store, but it seems that the fried and candied, high calorie, heart attack shit is selling the most simply because it's the cheapest.
post #58 of 2353
Motherfucker should have had some common sense though. 
post #59 of 2353
To mentally put aside a ten year long project to hitch a ride on a comet so that he might anticipate that he would be called a misogynist and receive death threats over a silly pin-up girl shirt his female friend made for him? This is not his fault. A cursory examination of Taylor's appearance should tell you that he's not a suit kind of guy. This wasn't a lapse in judgment or some gross statement against women that he wanted to make specifically for this occasion, he wore a shirt a buddy made for him. That's it.

He could have been wearing a shirt that said "God Doesn't Believe in Atheists" and I wouldn't do anything but scoff and say "Tacky fucker...but he did help harpoon a comet like some kind of Space Quint, so who gives a shit?"
post #60 of 2353
Anyhoo, I can only stress the same point so many times. This isn't really about him but about a chorus of voices that conflate an affront to personal taste, no matter how minor, as a call-to-arms. To say nothing of the inconsistencies often seen in these things.
post #61 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

To mentally put aside a ten year long project to hitch a ride on a comet so that he might anticipate that he would be called a misogynist and receive death threats over a silly pin-up girl shirt his female friend made for him? This is not his fault. A cursory examination of Taylor's appearance should tell you that he's not a suit kind of guy.

But that's not really an excuse. Okay let me back up:

 

I agree with you. I agree that this isn't some sinister plot to keep down the womenzs down, that this only proves to be ammunition for people wishing to dismiss actual claims of misogyny; nor do I think that the guy is some drooling, sexist who wanted to show up the femi-nazis with his proud, loud, man-shirt (of manliness). So I agree with about 90% of that article.

 

Where I waver is blaming it entirely on the "feminist bullies" fault for taking the attention away from his accomplishments--that's kind of on him as well. He had to have been aware that he and the things that he'd be saying would be broadcasted to millions of people worldwide--and he consciously thought wearing that shirt was a good idea. I'm not morally outraged, I'm more amused by it if anything. I do think, however, that some common sense could have made this mess avoidable. I mean, someone had to have told him how stupid it looked, right?

post #62 of 2353
I imagine the people around him, who know the man more than someone "angrily" mashing away at an iPhone, were probably occupied with the issue at hand. Also, the people attacking him aren't "feminist bullies", they're pop-outrage idiots who have appropriated and deformed the language and goals of something that is actually worth supporting.
post #63 of 2353

Well they got him to cry and and apologize for wearing a shirt that a woman made for him, thats pretty impressive really.

post #64 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I imagine the people around him, who know the man more than someone "angrily" mashing away at an iPhone, were probably occupied with the issue at hand. Also, the people attacking him aren't "feminist bullies", they're pop-outrage idiots who have appropriated and deformed the language and goals of something that is actually worth supporting.


But that's sort of my point: He's being broadcasted to people who have no idea who he is. This isn't some private event, or a couple of dudes hanging out in their backyard, this is a worldwide event because SCIENCE!

 

I just think he should have taken that into account.

post #65 of 2353
I've seen this equivalency made elsewhere and don't entirely agree with it, but you're saying it's his fault because of what he was wearing? Does that not sound uncomfortably familiar? What if this was Melissa instead of Matt and she was covered in tattoos and wearing a pinup girl shirt? You know for a fact that a certain group of people (Conservative prudes; let's call an asshole an asshole) would have had something to say and they'd be fucking wrong about it too.

By the way, I'm in a coffee shop at the moment (because I can't avoid every cliche) and a woman walked by with a huge pinup girl tattoo on her leg. I would have stopped her an berated her for marking herself with an image that so grotesquely objectifies the female form, but I didn't know if she was a scientist on her way to press conference or just a lady buying coffee, so I thought better of that action and stayed my hand.

This is the 21st century, man, people don't wear fedoras and three-piece suits to a showing at the picture house anymore.
post #66 of 2353
"Pop outrage idiots" is the best description of the current rash of social issue fundsmentalists I've read yet.
post #67 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I've seen this equivalency made elsewhere and don't entirely agree with it, but you're saying it's his fault because of what he was wearing? Does that not sound uncomfortably familiar? What if this was Melissa instead of Matt and she was covered in tattoos and wearing a pinup girl shirt? You know for a fact that a certain group of people (Conservative prudes; let's call an asshole an asshole) would have had something to say and they'd be fucking wrong about it too.

By the way, I'm in a coffee shop at the moment (because I can't avoid every cliche) and a woman walked by with a huge pinup girl tattoo on her leg. I would have stopped her an berated her for marking herself with an image that so grotesquely objectifies the female form, but I didn't know if she was a scientist on her way to press conference or just a lady buying coffee, so I thought better of that action and stayed my hand.

This is the 21st century, man, people don't wear fedoras and three-piece suits to a showing at the picture house anymore.

Oh, I'm well aware that I may have been heading down that road with that post.  But at the same time, a girl sitting in a coffeshop is vastly different from a guy whose face and name is being shown in numerous venues. I am in no way saying that he deserved to get death threats and bothered to the point of tears--that's not at all what I'm implying. This is, at best, a mention in some click-bait site that pokes fun on how hideous that shirt is. But it's like, if I worked at some high-profiled company, waiting to give to greatest presentation of my life, and decide to show up in shorts, sandals and a baseball cap, should I be upset that my peers (or other people) might think less of me? I just think there's a time and a place for these things, and the guy chose the wrong place.

post #68 of 2353
This was a press conference, not some formal company event where business / business casual attire was required. If he'd shown up in a baseball cap, shorts, and sandals, no one would have said anything. I actually just attended a business casual company "townhall", and aside from being bored senseless and hating every minute of it and wanting to die just to escape it, I was struck by the juxtaposition of a group of people concerned more about what we wore than they were about tossing out innuendo-laden gags and ebola jokes, which is what they were doing.

Full disclosure: I have a tattoo on the inside of my arm of a hermaphroditic deity that I've had for many years, but I have to obscure the breasts on it at the job because the tattoo artist went outside the parameters of the design I gave him and made said breasts far more prominent than I intended. So now a quick glance at it just makes it appear as if I have a big boobed woman displayed on my inner arm, sort of defeating the intent of why I got it to begin with. I've had people question the religious symbolism of the tattoo, and if that was the reason I've been asked to obscure it (which still may be the unspoken part of it), I'd tell upper management to fuck themselves, but considering the state of the work, I just wear long sleeves or give the thing a bra with a dry erase marker because I don't wish to be bothered with it.
post #69 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

http://time.com/3589392/comet-shirt-storm/

Yes, I'm still thinking about this because it bugs me. This is not good for feminism and there is such a thing as bad feminism. I have no issue working through all of the bad ideas before getting to the good ones, but if we're going to talk about misogyny and discrimination, you have to work through what does or does not constitute those things.

Christ, I wish there was a stronger (genuine) female presence on this site.

 

That's a terrible article by a right winger and people should pay no attention to it. Cathy Young is one of those writers like Christina Hoff Sommers who the anti-feminists like to trot out with "Hey look! Women agree with us!  We must be right".  The giveaway is the mention out of nowhere about Rebecca Watson.  She has no relevence to this at all unless there's some historical disagreement between the two or the broad sides of the debate.  And there is. They've been indirectly involved in wars of words from way back.  She probably thought of bringing her up by watching a Thunderfoot video or something.

 

Let's look at what really happened here:  Rather than the pervasiveness of a poisonous brand of feminism that just wants to keep good men down, censor the whole world and bring human kind under the heels of their sensible shoes, a couple of people tweeted a few snarky things about the shirt.  At such a display of public feminist sounding words things took the predictable course that they have done for years now;  the mob descends to attack and others defend.  The defense is then blown out of proportion because people are arguing for their position about a shirt they, in most cases, weren't that worried about to begin with.  Usual delights like serious sounding words misogyny and sexism being used (when in context they usually refer to misogynist culture), individuals being held up as representing feminism or women as a whole,  a typical array of writers loving the chance to paint some stripe of feminists as extremists like they have been doing for years etc etc.  It's all fairly predictable.

If you want to buy into the narrative that there are powerful aggressive feminists who command tremendous sway and are bad for... everything really, you're buying the narrative their opponents want you to have at this point.  When what actually took place was a fight over some fairly mild remarks, a fight which didn't need to happen, which grew as people explained and perhaps forcefully defended their opinion on the matter. Of course extremists were involved.  It's the internet.

If you come down at the end of this thinking that 'feminism looks bad because of this' then you're basically saying, wittingly or not, that the alternative is silence.  Say nothing feminist and this won't happen.  The assholes win.

 

Let's have a look at what the American Astronomical Society thought about it.

 

Quote:

The past few days have seen extensive international discussion of an incident (known online as #shirtstorm or #shirtgate) in which a participant in a European Space Agency media conference wore a shirt with sexualized images of gun-toting women and made an unfortunate remark comparing the featured spacecraft to a woman. Viewers responded critically to these inappropriate statements, especially jarring in such a highly visible setting (one in which very few women appeared), and the scientist apologized sincerely. But in the meantime, unacceptable abuse has been directed toward the critics, from criticism of “over-active feminism” to personal insults and more dire threats.

We wish to express our support for members of the community who rightly brought this issue to the fore, and we condemn the unreasonable attacks they experienced as a result, which caused deep distress in our community. ...

 

I'm sure to some it only reinforces how cowed so many are to the forces of insidious feminism that pervade the world and have done for decades.  The man wrote that with a gun to his head and garotte made from a blue stocking around his throat, according to them.  Or maybe they (the Society, that is) agree.

 

As I was alluding to before, people don't seem to judge this stuff on the actual content but the volume of it and whether that volume is appropriate.   But being leery about the volume of debate around something is a faulty position for assessing the validity of, well, anything really.  Even though it's tempting to judge that aspect.  Heck, some people do react in a conservative or knee jerk way thinking something must be a big deal just because there is so much talk of it (see Intel and gamergate *spits*). 

 

As a partial aside, this is where I think the internet shitfest is a new frontier for public discourse.  We really don't know how to judge or react to something of that scale appropriately as all of our human analogues are of riots and popular uprisings where you'd have to take it seriously. So many words, so many seemingly angry voices. But they don't fit that analogue at all really.  They just seem to.  We have no concept for what these things really are.  One day I expect we'll just get used to them.

 

In the mean time the real question to me is not whether or not feminism is too extreme or out of control, but why mild expressions of feminist sounding stuff so often turns into this.  On the whole I've not seen much from feminists that makes it seem necessary or, on the extreme end, that wasn't already there and noone cared until recently.

post #70 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

I imagine the people around him, who know the man more than someone "angrily" mashing away at an iPhone, were probably occupied with the issue at hand. Also, the people attacking him aren't "feminist bullies", they're pop-outrage idiots who have appropriated and deformed the language and goals of something that is actually worth supporting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bain View Post

"Pop outrage idiots" is the best description of the current rash of social issue fundsmentalists I've read yet.

Psst. They're called "social justice warriors".
post #71 of 2353
No! They're the

WARRIORS OF SOCIAL JUSTICE!!!
post #72 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMR View Post



Psst. They're called "social justice warriors".

 

You are just the worst.

 

Seriously.

post #73 of 2353
It really is surprising that someone hadn't pulled him aside and told him not to wear the shirt. One of the ironies in this case is that various articles had been written along the lines that this tattooed chap is not your stereotypical scientist and yet another stereotype of scientists - that they're so socially inept they're blind to the world outside their projects - seems to have been reinforced. I'd wager there's no more wretched hive of scum and misogyny than construction, the world I've worked in for 22 years, but even we dumb carpenters would know better than to appear in front of a bunch of strangers wearing something like that, well-meant present from a lady or not.
post #74 of 2353

Here is an informative story about rapes at UVA. It will make you make sad and piss you off.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119

 

 It looks like the Rolling Stone story did some good.

http://time.com/3601334/uva-fraternities-rolling-stone-sexual-assault/

post #75 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzman View Post

 

That's a terrible article by a right winger and people should pay no attention to it. Cathy Young is one of those writers like Christina Hoff Sommers who the anti-feminists like to trot out with "Hey look! Women agree with us!  We must be right".  The giveaway is the mention out of nowhere about Rebecca Watson.  She has no relevence to this at all unless there's some historical disagreement between the two or the broad sides of the debate.  And there is. They've been indirectly involved in wars of words from way back.  She probably thought of bringing her up by watching a Thunderfoot video or something.

 

Let's look at what really happened here:  Rather than the pervasiveness of a poisonous brand of feminism that just wants to keep good men down, censor the whole world and bring human kind under the heels of their sensible shoes, a couple of people tweeted a few snarky things about the shirt.  At such a display of public feminist sounding words things took the predictable course that they have done for years now;  the mob descends to attack and others defend.  The defense is then blown out of proportion because people are arguing for their position about a shirt they, in most cases, weren't that worried about to begin with.  Usual delights like serious sounding words misogyny and sexism being used (when in context they usually refer to misogynist culture), individuals being held up as representing feminism or women as a whole,  a typical array of writers loving the chance to paint some stripe of feminists as extremists like they have been doing for years etc etc.  It's all fairly predictable.

If you want to buy into the narrative that there are powerful aggressive feminists who command tremendous sway and are bad for... everything really, you're buying the narrative their opponents want you to have at this point.  When what actually took place was a fight over some fairly mild remarks, a fight which didn't need to happen, which grew as people explained and perhaps forcefully defended their opinion on the matter. Of course extremists were involved.  It's the internet.

If you come down at the end of this thinking that 'feminism looks bad because of this' then you're basically saying, wittingly or not, that the alternative is silence.  Say nothing feminist and this won't happen.  The assholes win.

 

Let's have a look at what the American Astronomical Society thought about it.

 

 

I'm sure to some it only reinforces how cowed so many are to the forces of insidious feminism that pervade the world and have done for decades.  The man wrote that with a gun to his head and garotte made from a blue stocking around his throat, according to them.  Or maybe they (the Society, that is) agree.

 

As I was alluding to before, people don't seem to judge this stuff on the actual content but the volume of it and whether that volume is appropriate.   But being leery about the volume of debate around something is a faulty position for assessing the validity of, well, anything really.  Even though it's tempting to judge that aspect.  Heck, some people do react in a conservative or knee jerk way thinking something must be a big deal just because there is so much talk of it (see Intel and gamergate *spits*). 

 

As a partial aside, this is where I think the internet shitfest is a new frontier for public discourse.  We really don't know how to judge or react to something of that scale appropriately as all of our human analogues are of riots and popular uprisings where you'd have to take it seriously. So many words, so many seemingly angry voices. But they don't fit that analogue at all really.  They just seem to.  We have no concept for what these things really are.  One day I expect we'll just get used to them.

 

In the mean time the real question to me is not whether or not feminism is too extreme or out of control, but why mild expressions of feminist sounding stuff so often turns into this.  On the whole I've not seen much from feminists that makes it seem necessary or, on the extreme end, that wasn't already there and noone cared until recently.

 




You know what, buddy? Fuck you and your well-reasoned and intelligent response. Kidding of course. Has my opinion been completely altered? Nope. I still believe that this idea that has been bandied about that women won't want to get into STEM because of what they think a man's goofy shirt signals is absurd to me. Any person with the proper amount of drive will never be dissuaded from pursuing their goals and I think it is hyperbole to suggest that this specific man in that specific shirt is emblematic of a hostile work environment and the reason they would hesitate going into said field.
post #76 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post
 


 Any person with the proper amount of drive will never be dissuaded from pursuing their goals 

 

I think this gets a little close to the "just pull yourself up by the bootstraps and stop whining!" dodge that often gets applied to race/class discussions.  For those specially driven individuals, yeah.  Nothing will stop them.  But as a matter of degrees, trends, and big pictures... I can't say that the shirt ISN'T somewhat representative of something that can discourage the number of women in STEM fields as a whole.  Nix that.  It's not representative.  It's a minor symptom that got blown up because it got prominently called out.

 

It's most definitely hyperbole to focus a whole system of issues onto one guy, one shirt, and a mistake.  But I think I've said before... this is hardly about just that guy anymore.  It's more about both sides screaming at the other.

 

 

"It's just a fucking shirt!  Now you PC thugs have gone too far!!!"  

 

vs

 

"A shirt is not just a shirt!  There are bigger things going on than just the shirt!!!"

 

 

Two sides that are arguing on completely different wavelengths.

 

 

 

no free will

post #77 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post
 

 

 

 

 

 

no free will

cogs in the machine. all of us.

 

 

But yeah, Jackknife. You right. I guess my issue is more about "WHY IN GOD NAMES WOULD A DECENT HUMAN BEING WITH TASTE WEAR THAT SHIRT OHMYGODBURNITBURNITBURNIT.." then any sort of issue with misogyny.

post #78 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

"A shirt is not just a shirt!  There are bigger things going on than just the shirt!!!"

I get what you're saying, but I guess a large part of why I don't really like 'call out culture' is that it takes all this collective fury about systemic and institutional injustice and smashes it like a hammer onto the head of a single unwitting person, who would probably turn out to be perfectly nice and decent if you had a proper chat with them. Casually fucking up people's lives as collateral damage probably isn't the best way to persuade the general public that your particular brand of morality is the way to go.
post #79 of 2353

Oh, it wasn't a defense in this case.

 

I agree.  It's unfair.  And not the right way to go.

 

But for now, it's a big part of how this mob mentality goes online.  And until the eventual blowback (caused by widespread exhaustion with the philomena or some other event that drastically changes such narratives), it's what's going to happen.

post #80 of 2353
post #81 of 2353
Quote:

I just can't.

post #82 of 2353
DO IT!!!
post #83 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post

I just can't.

It's actually pretty good. I do somewhat disagree with her on one point though and that's her opinion on why he was crying. She didn't seem to acknowledge that he may have been brought to tears because he was so high on this moment only to see it deeply obscured and his name nearly undone. I'm not saying he's not empathetic to the complaints, but that probably wasn't the thing at the forefront of his mind.

I can appreciate and acknowledge the perspective of others, but in this instance, I feel far more empathetic towards him because he took it on the chin like a champ and if I were in his position, my first instinct would have probably been to go nuclear; as is my nature. I imagine the situation would have become worse.
post #84 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

DO IT!!!

No, I hate women now.

post #85 of 2353
YOU MUST!!!
post #86 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

YOU MUST!!!

I do, too many articles.

post #87 of 2353
He *must* hate women or he *must* read the thinkpiece? This is all so confusing, arousing, and for some reason it's giving me the urge to bowl.
post #88 of 2353
YAAAAAAY!
post #89 of 2353
In honor of this event, I'm reopening and renaming the boob thread: Bowling for Matt Taylor...











...No, not really.
post #90 of 2353
The proceeds of this charity bowling event goes to NASA's mandatory plain white shirt budget!!!
post #91 of 2353
I was actually going to post some unrelated and far, far graver bits of news, specifically some stuff regarding Thailand and India, but that's a hard, depressing shift and I don't feel up to the job at the moment.
post #92 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Singer View Post

You are just the worst.

Seriously.

Naw, the worst is Ayaan Hirsi Ali. How dare she tell American women they're focusing on trivial bullshit? This is why we need feminism: to fight misogynists like her.
post #93 of 2353

She's right!

post #94 of 2353

Everyone is pretty much right on in this thread, from Jacknife and his unease with the shitstorm that erupted about a bowling shirt, to Muzman and his analysis of why it's an issue worth discussing, to Paul C's excellent point that bringing down the hammer of social justice on one completely oblivious man is counterproductive and borderline cruel.

 

Everyone has a point.

 

Except PMR, who is still flailing around in two different threads desperately trying to score points for his "I hate that the games sites I read talk about social issues too, THEY ARE BEING MEAN TO ME, FEMINISM IS OPPRESSIVE" position.

 

Please just stop, man. You've walked into a mature, reasoned debate and started trying to take potshots with a potato gun. It's kind of sad.

post #95 of 2353
I thought my point in here was kind of obvious and distinct from the other thread.
post #96 of 2353

Not really. You're still making the case that SJWs are these awful people who attack attack attack without seeing the forest for the trees. You can be doubtful of this specific case - one socially inept man taken to task over a trivial thing at a time when people should be celebrating his success - whilst still seeing your arguments in the other thread as self-centred nonsense.

 

You seem to lack any kind of appreciation for nuance and complexity when it comes to debating human interactions and societal issues, hence "look these SJWs are destroying this man just like they're infecting my gaming sites wah wah wah!", as though the two issues aren't entirely different. As though a clueless man in an ugly bowling shirt is analogous to a whole self-identified, very aggressive, openly misogynistic movement of people. As though defending an obvlious nerd who picked the wrong outfit means that you should also be cool with a guy throwing a snit because "ew these wimminz keep on talking shit about my games".

post #97 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post
 

Here is an informative story about rapes at UVA. It will make you make sad and piss you off.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/a-rape-on-campus-20141119

 

 It looks like the Rolling Stone story did some good.

http://time.com/3601334/uva-fraternities-rolling-stone-sexual-assault/

 

That first one is a horrific article. Ugh. The second one totally doesn't reassure me at all.

post #98 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriweather View Post
 

Not really. You're still making the case that SJWs are these awful people who attack attack attack without seeing the forest for the trees. You can be doubtful of this specific case - one socially inept man taken to task over a trivial thing at a time when people should be celebrating his success - whilst still seeing your arguments in the other thread as self-centred nonsense.

 

You seem to lack any kind of appreciation for nuance and complexity when it comes to debating human interactions and societal issues, hence "look these SJWs are destroying this man just like they're infecting my gaming sites wah wah wah!", as though the two issues aren't entirely different. As though a clueless man in an ugly bowling shirt is analogous to a whole self-identified, very aggressive, openly misogynistic movement of people. As though defending an obvlious nerd who picked the wrong outfit means that you should also be cool with a guy throwing a snit because "ew these wimminz keep on talking shit about my games".

Ok, so let me get this straight:  Don't paint SJW's in broad strokes?  But its completely fine to label something like gamer gate completely one sided with being "very aggressive, openly misogynistic movement of people?"  It seems to me your contradicting yourself.  Groups and movements are not necessarily monolithic entities.  They take all sorts.  

post #99 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruckuss Zuckuss View Post

Ok, so let me get this straight:  Don't paint SJW's in broad strokes?  But its completely fine to label something like gamer gate completely one sided with being "very aggressive, openly misogynistic movement of people?"  It seems to me your contradicting yourself.  Groups and movements are not necessarily monolithic entities.  They take all sorts.  

False equivalency. GamerGate is a title created by a specific group used to define themselves. SJW is a perjorative used by that group to paint a huge swath across almost anyone with any problem with the way games depict women, regardless of degree or validity. Not the same,
post #100 of 2353
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post


False equivalency. GamerGate is a title created by a specific group used to define themselves. SJW is a perjorative used by that group to paint a huge swath across almost anyone with any problem with the way games depict women, regardless of degree or validity. Not the same,


Thats reducing it to semantics.  I'll simply rephrase as social justice groups which I don't believe should be generalized.  Likewise, should someone like Totalbiscuit who has supported(also criticized)GG be dismissed from association?   Does he have no merit?

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CHUD.com Community › Forums › POLITICS & RELIGION › Political Discourse › Misogyny and the discrimination and abuse of women in the US and around the world