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DC Cinematic Universe Discussion - Page 57

post #2801 of 3578

I'm going to throw it out there that Clayface's shapeshifting abilities would actually be perfect for a noir. Take a cue from his first appearance on the Animated Series and have Bruce Wayne be framed for murder. 

post #2802 of 3578

Riddler would be pretty awesome to see. 

 

I would also LOOOOVE to see Black Mask make it on screen. 

 

 

 

If Clayface does show up he needs to be a mook for the main villain. 

post #2803 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

Reeves is explicitly going for a noir take on Batman. This limits the likely villains. 

 

Riddler, Catwoman, Two-Face and Penguin can definitely operate in a noir take. Hell, most of Batman's villains can work in noir take.

post #2804 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

 

As they should be, since I didn't realize until just now that they are different characters.  Which one was Will Smith in SS?  Was the other in Arrow?


Deadshot was Will Smith in Suicide Squad.

 

Yes, Manu Bennett was Deathstroke in Arrow.  But Deadshot was in Arrow's first couple or three seasons, too (just didn't have his mask).

 

Deadshot is a guy that's really good at shooting guns. 

 

Deathstroke is Captain America as an amoral-but-honorable mercenary.

 

Deadpool got started as an alternate costume design for Deathstroke, when Rob Liefeld was working on a Teen Titans pitch that got rejected (he basically recycled a bunch of his designs from that pitch into New Mutants/X-Force and especially Youngblood later on). 

 

On the topic at hand:  For a "Noir" Batman I'd put very good money on Black Mask.  Or maybe they'll go all out and have a gang war between Black Mask, Penguin and others (Maybe with Riddler pulling strings behind the scenes?)

 

But knowing DC instead they'll try a riff on "Hush" and call it "Noir-ish."

post #2805 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post

 

Deathstroke is Captain America as an amoral-but-honorable mercenary.

 

 

This is why I really like the character. 

post #2806 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

 

This is why I really like the character. 


Yep.  When written well he's great.  Sadly like most comic characters he's definitely had his stretches of time where he very much wasn't.  Currently he's had a bit of a renaissance being written by Christopher Priest (You'll probably hear that name a good amount when Black Panther hits, given that his run on that character is considered one of the definitive ones).

 

Point being, he's usually a lot more interesting than just a "ninja-mercenary-assassin with lots of pouches."

 

Though to be clear, I have no problem with him being excised from the Batman movie.  If anything I wouldn't mind seeing DC give him his own movie (not impossible given Suicide Squad and Gotham City Sirens).  Or saving him for an antagonist against a future Nightwing or Titans.

post #2807 of 3578
Pretty sure the rumour was Penguin. Also isn't a "Batman noir" just code for "he actually does some detective work".
post #2808 of 3578
nah. Batman noir is more about tone and the psychological effects that Batman has on his villains and vice-versa.

See: Gotham Central. Now that's noir as fuck.
post #2809 of 3578

Two villains I'd like to see that have not been mentioned yet:  Azrael and and Anarky. 

 

Both are kind of "Now I'm a villain now I'm a hero" types and could be great foils for Batman, esp if you then throw in Black Mask and/or Penguin into the mix as the "pure" villains. 

post #2810 of 3578
Someone asked to see Azrael, willingly.

Maybe I'll see Bigfoot later.
post #2811 of 3578

Deathstroke could still work as a gun-for-hire from Penguin (if that is who they're going with for the main villain).

 

But really, I think maybe Ra's is the only major Bat villain who doesn't quite neatly fit into a noir take? He tends to be a bit too large-scale for that genre, I think. But even Talia as the femme fatale would qualify. Even Croc started out as another gangster. Maybe Man-Bat wouldn't fit.

 

I think most of the Batman Casting Draft participants would agree with me that Hugo Strange would be another potential villain who'd do really well in noir.

post #2812 of 3578
As long as Hush never makes an appearance, I'll be happy.
post #2813 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

As long as Hush never makes an appearance, I'll be happy.


Co-signed.

post #2814 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by JacknifeJohnny View Post

As long as Hush never makes an appearance, I'll be happy.

 


Thirded.

post #2815 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

Someone asked to see Azrael, willingly.

Maybe I'll see Bigfoot later.

 

He had a neat story arc initially.......hero and fill in for Batman after Bane broke his back, but increasingly under the implanted mind control of the Order of Dumas. 


They could do a riff off that where Jean Paul starts as an ally of Batman but starts to think Punisher like executions of crimminals is a better way to fight crime...then leading Batman to have to defend Penquin et al. 

 

It could work. 

post #2816 of 3578
You could easily pull of Azrael, have him be some kid who saw the murderous bat brands on TV, feels like Batman gone too much with JL to protect Gotham. But it's kind of a retread of the beloved BvS where again Batman's methods are getting questioned etc.

To be fair to Azrael at least I remember him. Hush? Batman's brother wasn't it?
post #2817 of 3578

There's a way to do that Azrael story better though. And even allows for a lot of villains already mentioned to appear...

 

By adapting Under The Hood. 

 

Now it's important when doing so to never make Red Hood a cool anti-hero (which DC naturally did afterwards).

 

He's supposed to be a broken person looking for meaning. An abject lesson in Batman's failure with Jason Todd that he has to confront and deal with.

 

With the DCEU, it can get even better as Red Hood will be a more apparent dark reflection of exactly who Batman was becoming in BvS. So he has to find a way to pull him back the way he was pulled back there. You've got the noir/detective elements in Batman trying to discover Red Hood's identity. You get payoff of Batman's arc in BvS where he's contrasted with Red Hood going ALL IN on that with his Punisher like rampage (and you can even have him call Batman out on his similar actions there). Throw in a flashback to Jason's first death to explain that tidbit to the cheap seats. Tons of the Rogue's Gallery present who Batman has to end up defending. Even bring in Nightwing and Oracle if the story calls for it. 

 

In the right hands like Reeve's it could be incredibly well done AND truly be a Batman story we haven't seen on screen before. 

post #2818 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

You could easily pull of Azrael, have him be some kid who saw the murderous bat brands on TV, feels like Batman gone too much with JL to protect Gotham. But it's kind of a retread of the beloved BvS where again Batman's methods are getting questioned etc.

To be fair to Azrael at least I remember him. Hush? Batman's brother wasn't it?


Childhood friend.  Basically presented as one of several "Reverse-Batman" characters (See also:  Prometheus, The Wrath, Killer Moth -- Originally, Catman, etc...).  The "twist" being that he killed his parents himself (or at least engineered their deaths), as opposed to at least a couple of the others who have "Criminal parents killed by lawmen" origins.

post #2819 of 3578
I'd love a film noir Batman where he actually does detective work and narrates the whole thing like a professional Humphrey Bogart. Something like what these guys did for "The long Halloween". I love Batman's voice in this.
Or something left field like" Gotham by Gaslight". An Elseworlds Batman in the Victorian era. Coincidentally that will be turned into an animation.
http://nerdist.com/gotham-by-gaslight-is-dcs-next-animated-movie/
post #2820 of 3578
Honestly, after such and such Batman film or cartoon, the only thing I would like to see (but won't) is Michelle Yeoh as Lady Shiva. I think right up until the mid-to-late 90's, that character was so fucking cool.* Shiva is a female villain who didn't have beef with Batman or want to fuck him, she just wants a challenge, so her motivation is entirely self-generated.

She's like the human, female equivalent of the Predator. She travels the globe looking for the absolute best fighters, the undefeated and "undefeatable", and puts them in the fucking ground. She'd probably have to be a secondary antagonist because I don't think she's a conventional enough supervillain to move the plot of a superhero movie, but reading comics as a kid, specifically her part in Robin: A Hero Reborn, Shiva was the only Batman villain who I found to be truly intimidating at the time.






*The whole mother of Cassandra Cain/Batgirl thing is/was bullshit. Shiva was great all on her own before they began doing all of this unnecessary nonsense with her.
post #2821 of 3578

WB/DC currently planning FOUR films for 2020:

 

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/07/18/dc-adds-two-more-films-to-its-2020-calendar

 

No way that calendar holds.

post #2822 of 3578
A recipe for audience fatigue and self-cannibalism.
post #2823 of 3578

Yeah, even Marvel wisely keeps it to two a year. Have there been any years with three? I think next year there might be (Black Panther, Infinity War, and....Captain Marvel?).


ETA: Nope, it's Ant-man and Wasp in 2018, not Captain Marvel. That's set for 2019.

post #2824 of 3578
They have 3 this year. Guardians, Spider-Man, and Thor.
post #2825 of 3578

I think Feige has said that he'd eventually like to get Marvel into doing films four times a year. 

post #2826 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamnDirtyApe View Post

They have 3 this year. Guardians, Spider-Man, and Thor.

 

Guh. I keep thinking of Spidey as more of a tie-in than an official MCU flick. My bad.

post #2827 of 3578

Man that's a meat  grinder of a schedule. 

post #2828 of 3578

So right now only Aquaman is coming out next year, and The Batman (and possibly Shazam) in 2019.

 

I'm thinking they're envisioning Wonder Woman 2, Justice League 2, Gotham City Sirens and Batgirl for 2020 but at least two of them (JL2 and Gotham City Sirens) don't happen. 

 

I certainly still doubt that Green Lantern Corps, Cyborg, Nightwing, a Man of Steel sequel, Justice League Dark and all the other randos that have been rumored ever happen. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone, somewhere (Whedon) just decides to ditch Suicide Squad 2 and Gotham City Sirens and just incorporate those ideas into Batgirl. 

post #2829 of 3578

I'd like to see The Batman, Aquaman (because what the fuck?), Man of Steelier, WW2, and Gotham City Sirens. 

post #2830 of 3578

I don't know about you, but I want my Jimmy Olsen movie ASAP!

post #2831 of 3578

Gimme Green Lantern Corps.

 

That character can be done right dammit! He's an intergalactic space cop! That should not be so hard to do awesomely. The animated GL movie already gave you a great blueprint to follow. 

post #2832 of 3578

I figure WB has a few absolutes right now: 

 

A Superman that can't carry his own movie but can appear elsewhere.

A Batman people like.

A Harley Quinn almost unanimously accepted as the best part of Suicide Squad.

A Wonder Woman people love.

And two creatives, Patty Jenkins and Joss Whedon, to steer the ship. 

 

I think that means WW2 and Batgirl happen no matter what. The rest is kind of up in the air. 

post #2833 of 3578

And before you come at me bro, I like Cavill a lot as Superman. But I don't think WB has faith in the character and no one really knows what to do with him.

post #2834 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

And before you come at me bro, I like Cavill a lot as Superman. But I don't think WB has faith in the character and no one really knows what to do with him.

 

Didn't they hire Matt Vaughn to helm a solo Supes movie?

post #2835 of 3578

I think he was in talks. I have my doubts it leads to Superman with a Vengeance, though.

 

I've said it before, I think Justice League movies will be sub-Superman sequels from now on. Although I wouldn't mind a Trinity movie just with Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman.

post #2836 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

A Batman people like.

 

I think this the key problem that DC has at the moment.
 
People genuinely love many of the Marvel characters which is why their team-ups are seen as big events. Sure, some people may like Batfleck but I don't get the sense that they're fans of him in the same way that they are with the current screen versions of Iron Man or Captain America, and that's largely down to how he was written in Batman V Superman. Maybe that will change after Justice League but, for now, I think people love Batman but they only like Batfleck.   
 
The closest they've come to that level at the moment is Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman but it's probably too early to ascertain whether the general public have fallen in love with that character or not. Sure, they turned out in large numbers for her solo movie but will they see someone else's movie just because she's in it now, in the same way some people will see Thor 3 because of The Hulk?

Edited by MrSaxon - 7/18/17 at 9:17am
post #2837 of 3578

Anecdotally, when MM and I went to see Homecoming the Justice League trailer was shown and a woman next to us said, "She's cool. Don't know about the rest."

 

You heard it here, folks.

post #2838 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I figure WB has a few absolutes right now: 

 

A Superman that can't carry his own movie but can appear elsewhere.

A Batman people like.

A Harley Quinn almost unanimously accepted as the best part of Suicide Squad.

A Wonder Woman people love.

And two creatives, Patty Jenkins and Joss Whedon, to steer the ship. 

 

I think that means WW2 and Batgirl happen no matter what. The rest is kind of up in the air. 


They're reportedly gearing up to go into production on Shazam in February, and playing Black Adam seems to be a passion project of the Rock, and WB must figure "If we have The Rock, people will see it!". Not that that worked for Baywatch, but Shazam is probably a reasonably safe bet compared to say, Cyborg.

post #2839 of 3578
DC is making close to Marvel money with horrible to middling movies. I wouldn't worry about them. Plus Marvel is going to go through a soft company wide reboot in a few years so we shall see if their characters can hold up to a recast.

I think the difference is DC still has A list characters you want to like, Marvel has to sell you on their B listers now.
post #2840 of 3578

I dunno, man. After the core trio, the remaining DC characters have to be sold just as much as everyone in Marvel's stable. I've no idea who Shazzam is and I spend my pointless hours arguing the specifics of different Spider-Man movies.

post #2841 of 3578
Untitled DC Film is my favorite comics character.
post #2842 of 3578

Marvel will be just fine. Even if Downey, Evans, Hemsworth and Ruffalo are gone for good post-Avengers 4, there are still sequels to Guardians, Ant-Man, Doctor Strange, Spider-Man, Black Panther and Captain Marvel in the future. The next generation has already been introduced, and if they're clever this kind of subtle seed laying could go on for at least another decade. 

 

But I do agree that DC has the more iconic names. People know who Aquaman, the Flash and Green Lantern are, even if they couldn't tell you much about the characters. 

post #2843 of 3578
That's true but DC is kinda cheating because they still need to release a new Batman, and I'm sure Superman will get another film. Plus WW is just getting started.

Would Harley be A list now? I would put her above a Thor. Plus Marvel has to be concerned about that Spiderman week 2 drop.
post #2844 of 3578

Harley is definitely A list, but it would be better for them if Robbie could rack up another hit or two. 

 

Prediction: Ruffalo as Banner becomes the Downey-esque glue in Stage Whatever. Infinity War ends with Hulk saving Erf or some shit, redeeming him in the public's eyes. 

 

Alternatively, they did a LOT of legwork in Doctor Strange to make him the new Iron Man, and Cumberbatch in House mode totally works. 

 

I just want a DC Bombshells thing. 

 

Oh, and Joss Whedon off Batgirl. 

post #2845 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

it would be better for them if Robbie could rack up

 

 

 

I see what you did there.

 

 

 

 

(Boone totally did not do that. I did, because I'm awful.)

post #2846 of 3578

Yes. You are. 

 

;)

post #2847 of 3578

No doubt about it, Will Smith getting the Genie role at Disney means he could be set for a while. They love using the same actors across all of their platforms. See Donald Glover appearing in Homecoming, Han Solo and The Lion King; Josh Gad in Frozen and Beauty and the Beast; and Alan Tudyk in just about everything. 

 

So I wouldn't be surprised if Harley is the only thing to come out of Suicide Squad, whether or not that means she gets her own movie or shows up in Batgirl.

post #2848 of 3578
They should do a Batman movie with Harley as the villain. It would make all the money.
post #2849 of 3578
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munson View Post

Would Harley be A list now? I would put her above a Thor. Plus Marvel has to be concerned about that Spiderman week 2 drop.

A 61% drop from the usual 59% drop isn't a big deal. Spider-Man had Apes to compete with on its second weekend, and it has Dunkirk next.

Wonder Woman had the Mummy then Transformers.

Wonder Woman had a much better shot to grab and hold an audience.
post #2850 of 3578
The dour and sour Apes isn't really a tent pole killer. I'm not sure if I'm writing a post disguised as help for erectile dysfunction but the fact is WW held up better.
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