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DC Cinematic Universe Discussion - Page 66

post #3251 of 3585

Not for everyone I suppose, Cylon! But I dig its fast pace, innovative stories and pro-science attitude.

post #3252 of 3585

Global Frequency is great. 

post #3253 of 3585

Hahahahahaha, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?

 

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/08/23/matt-reeves-says-the-batman-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-extended-universe

 

Post-Justice League is WB just abandoning the shared universe altogether? Because I'm perfectly fine with that. 

post #3254 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Hahahahahaha, WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON?

 

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/08/23/matt-reeves-says-the-batman-will-not-be-part-of-the-dc-extended-universe

 

Post-Justice League is WB just abandoning the shared universe altogether? Because I'm perfectly fine with that. 

 

I would, too. Mostly. I mean, the ideal is making good superhero movies that fit together well, ala MCU. But if you can't do that, just make good movies.

 

I have to wonder if that just means that Reeves isn't going to do any cameos, and that the story won't have any Easter eggs or Thor's Cavern-type scenes, rather than being wholly disconnected.

 

This announcement, though, does seem like it's phrased to ease Affleck out of the role.

post #3255 of 3585

Casey Affleck knew!

post #3256 of 3585

Yeah, if it's not connected to anything, and there's a new completely disconnected Joker to be cast, this frees them up to do whatever they want.

 

Although I imagine the movie doesn't come out until 2021 or 2022 just to distance itself a bit. 

post #3257 of 3585

Maybe they are just abandoning the DCEU endeavor entirely.

 

Just start making good, standalone, movies again if you can't get it together.  

post #3258 of 3585

If this leads to a Multiverse/Elseworlds approach going forward, I'm all for it.  When DC has been successful with their films, it's mostly been because they have a strong filmmaker (Nolan, Donner, Burton, Jenkins) making the movie they want to make.  The more collaboration and franchise building they try to do, the worse the end product turns out. 

With the more stand-alone approach, they can shift to recruiting quality directors for each character (which they're more than capable of doing), they don't necessarily have to plan out their films as far in advance (which they're terrible at doing) or recalibrate the entire slate whenever one of the movies bombs.

post #3259 of 3585

My guess is this all stems from Wonder Woman being, ostensibly, its own thing and so tonally different than from what the DCEU was before. I also wonder if they're seeing stuff from the AQUAMAN movie that has contributed to this. 

post #3260 of 3585

But this whole multiverse deal that people keep talking about assumes the movies would acknowledge each other as taking place in alternate realities and possibly even cross over between dimensions, like the Supergirl show does with Flash and Arrow. I don't think that's WB's intention at all and they can't be bothered with those kinds of complications.

 

I think they're simply reverting to the pre-2016 model. Meaning, the Dark Knight trilogy, Superman Returns and Green Lantern were all made during the same time frame but didn't acknowledge each other in any way. 

post #3261 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post
 

If this leads to a Multiverse/Elseworlds approach going forward, I'm all for it.  When DC has been successful with their films, it's mostly been because they have a strong filmmaker (Nolan, Donner, Burton, Jenkins) making the movie they want to make.  The more collaboration and franchise building they try to do, the worse the end product turns out. 

With the more stand-alone approach, they can shift to recruiting quality directors for each character (which they're more than capable of doing), they don't necessarily have to plan out their films as far in advance (which they're terrible at doing) or recalibrate the entire slate whenever one of the movies bombs.

 

Where are they going to find all these actors to play multiple different Batmans, Aquamans, and Wonder Womans exactly?  Let alone directors, writers, or open release dates.  An Elseworlds concept would require even more logistics than the current DCEU, and they can barely manage two movies a year as it is!

 

Scale back and just make good movies that aren't connected.

post #3262 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post
 

Scale back and just make good movies that aren't connected.

 

They can have their cake and eat it too if they want to put out DCEU movies. Just call the good movies that aren't connected "Elseworlds."

post #3263 of 3585

WB has never wanted to bother with this shit. When Catwoman came out in 2004 it acknowledged Michelle Pfeiffer as a previous Catwoman at the same time Batman Begins was being filmed. What if that Catwoman had been successful and gotten a sequel? You know no one would have bothered to reconcile anything. 

 

A few years later Superman Returns came out at the same time as Smallville. 

 

A few years after that they were prepared to release a Justice League movie with Armie Hammer as Batman that would've existed side by side with Nolan's Dark Knight movies. 

 

A few years after that Arrow and the Flash started the Arrowverse, and not only does the DCEU not acknowledge their existence, neither the Arrowverse nor DCEU acknowledge Fox's Gotham.

 

Some corporate bigwig got it in his craw circa 2014 to try and make this whole shared universe thing work and obviously no one ever really committed to it.

post #3264 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendrix View Post
 

 

They can have their cake and eat it too if they want to put out DCEU movies. Just call the good movies that aren't connected "Elseworlds."

 

 

Movie making is easy!

 

Make all the movies!

post #3265 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

My guess is this all stems from Wonder Woman being, ostensibly, its own thing and so tonally different than from what the DCEU was before. I also wonder if they're seeing stuff from the AQUAMAN movie that has contributed to this. 

 

I mean, maybe?  But man, how dire must JL and Aquaman be looking if the studio is willing to just abandon the entire enterprise now?  Before JL even releases, and immediately on the heels of the first unqualified DCEU hit?  Given WW's very recent success, I can't imagine how self-evidently bad the next movie would have to be to just scrap everything before it even screens.  Is it more likely that Affleck just absolutely will not play ball, and they're taking extreme measures to try to remove Batman as the lynchpin going forward?

post #3266 of 3585

I meant Aquaman is tonally different from JL and the Snyderverse much the way Wonder Woman was - lighter, maybe, or with a different feeling than the grim and grit. Something that makes it feel out of place from the rest, like WW does. 

post #3267 of 3585

Hopefully Aquaman is actually looking good and has convinced them, along with Wonder Woman's success, that solo outings are the way of the future after all the trouble with JL.

 

But even if that's true, I wouldn't be surprised if a successful JL means a push to keep Affleck on for The Batman. It, along with the other solo movies, just won't go out of its way to acknowledge each other.

 

All speculation. 

post #3268 of 3585

None of this would have happened if they'd just damn well cast Scott Adkins as Batman.

 

#Boyka4Batman

post #3269 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boone Daniels View Post
 

I meant Aquaman is tonally different from JL and the Snyderverse much the way Wonder Woman was - lighter, maybe, or with a different feeling than the grim and grit. Something that makes it feel out of place from the rest, like WW does. 

 

But that would just mean that the course correction had worked, right?  And that the DCEU prospects would be brighter (literally and figuratively) once Snyder's gloom is completely in the rear view?  I don't know, I'm genuinely puzzled what could cause such a major pivot in the entire direction of the enterprise, immediately after WW finally, finally got all the wheels on the track.

post #3270 of 3585
Justice League must be such a mess that they've abandoned all hope of salvaging the DCEU.

Like, what other reason could there possibly be?

Marvel isn't announcing Iron Man and Captain America movies that are disconnected from the MCU.

Something is amiss.
post #3271 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Hopefully Aquaman is actually looking good and has convinced them, along with Wonder Woman's success, that solo outings are the way of the future after all the trouble with JL.

 

But even if that's true, I wouldn't be surprised if a successful JL means a push to keep Affleck on for The Batman. It, along with the other solo movies, just won't go out of its way to acknowledge each other.

 

All speculation. 

 

It's weird because Marvel tends to be very vocal (via Fiege) about their MCU plans during conventions and things.  They map it all out and let everyone know.

 

 

 

 

 

WB does not seem to have this kind of strategy mapped out enough to confidently present it to the public beforehand.  They seem to have vague ideas about what they're building, without a cohesive creative voice holding it all together, and now they have this weird, dark, garish, trashy aesthetic started by Snyder and Ayer that is tonally inconsistent with alot of their other properties.

 

Originally they had Man of Steel, and the sequel got morphed into BvS, which seems to be when they planned to do an extended universe and wanted to start building it off their flagship heroes.  Then they did the weird thing of making Suicide Squad as if some kind of answer to Marvel's Guardians, without understanding that Marvel had alot of goodwill at that point and could get away with weirdness.  They'd earned it.  So of course BvS gets mixed to negative reviews and fails to crack a billion, which those two heroes should've easily done.  And Suicide Squad follows roughly the same pattern... mixed to bad reviews, good box office, but not what they were hoping for.

 

WB/DC never really started out with anything good enough to build a foundation on ala Iron Man and a very public face to the universe ala Robert Downey Jr.  Which was their key mistake I think.  They went after the easy money by smashing their two flagship heroes together in one movie just assuming it would be enough to launch a worthwhile DCEU.  It really wasn't, and now I think they've gotten cold feet and are just kind of randomly doing things, like making one-off Batman movies again and making a gritty 70s solo Joker prequel no one asked for.  

 

None of these moves make any sense if the studio was confident in their big Justice League film that is supposed to tie everything together.  

 

If they have some kind of plan, the time has come and gone for them to map it all out for fans ala Fiege/Marvel.  All it takes is a slide projector and a blank wall.

post #3272 of 3585
That graphic is different than the original graphic that didn't include Spider-Man and Ant-Man 2.

But even so, barely anything changed from that October 2014 plan that Marvel announced for Phase 3. In fact, what did change was for the better.

Announced Spider-Man coming to the MCU.
Announced an Ant-Man sequel.
Scrapped Inhumans which everyone agreed was a bad idea to include in the first place.
Announced Avengers 3 and 4 would be standalone movies.

Not only that, they snatched up Waititi and Coogler to direct movies.

So it just goes to show you what the benefits of having a well thought out plan are.
Edited by catartik - 8/23/17 at 2:18pm
post #3273 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

Justice League must be such a mess that they've abandoned all hope of salvaging the DCEU.

Like, what other reason could there possibly be?
 

 

Which I could totally buy - combining Snyder and Whedon's sensibilities is going to make for a peanut butter and tuna sandwich on a good day.  But Wonder Woman proved the universe isn't hopeless, and JL will likely turn a profit regardless of how bad it is, so...either there is truly no one at the wheel of the entire studio, or it just looks unfathomably bad.  Like, it would have to be worse than BvS, worse than the latest Transformers...and it would have to be so obviously, irrevocably so that I feel like it can't just be that.  

 

Jumping lanes a bit...even with the fun novelty of a legit attempt at Mean Streets: Gotham, and even with Scorcesse himself producing in some capacity, does anyone really want to watch a movie where the Joker is the protagonist?  Like, a full two hours of it?  I mean, they can't kill him off in the end, so what can you really do with it?  Does Batman show up to kick his ass at the end?  Is it just Death Wish, except Bronson puts on clown make-up when he goes to finish off the gang in the third act?

post #3274 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post
 

does anyone really want to watch a movie where the Joker is the protagonist?  Like, a full two hours of it? 

 

 

175x400px-LM-65d6d315_samus.jpeg

post #3275 of 3585
And it was just announced that the Crazy Stupid Love/This is Us/Whiskey Tango Foxtrot guys are writing and directing a Joker & Harley movie w/ Leto and Robbie. THR has the story.

Every single one of those titles feels apropos to this situation. Also, is there going to be a new Joker film announced every day this week?
post #3276 of 3585
I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING
post #3277 of 3585

I get the vibe that  DC/WB doesn't either.

post #3278 of 3585
Maybe each of these announced projects is an "Argo"-style ruse covering up some kind of Fed black ops shenanigans. DCEU exec producer Steve Mnuchin is a cabinet secretary!
post #3279 of 3585
Go home WB...your drunk.
post #3280 of 3585
Which one has "the real Joker," tho?
post #3281 of 3585
This is hilarious.
post #3282 of 3585
post #3283 of 3585
post #3284 of 3585

If it really, truly is set in another time period, then make it 1939. That would be so, so cool.

post #3285 of 3585

It's going to be the 80s. It's always the 80s. 

post #3286 of 3585
When the "Elseworlds" thing came up, I remembered that they're doing an animated "Gotham by Gaslight". I'd watch the hell out of a live-action version of that. But 1939 would be nifty too.
post #3287 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

Go home WB...your drunk.

 

Seriously. 

post #3288 of 3585
So now Reeves is claiming that by "not connected" he meant it would be a solo Batman movie and not one with cameos from other DCEU heroes.

Seems plausible but who knows at this point.
post #3289 of 3585

I really think it all depends on how Justice League is received. It will make money no matter what, but how will it be reviewed, and most importantly how will people react to Affleck? There's a lot of good will from him being one of the only embraced things about BvS, so if he really knocks it out of the park I don't see how WB doesn't insist that he stay.

 

Bart's theory about the DCEU coming up:

 

Actually Happens

Aquaman

Wonder Woman 2

The Batman

Suicide Squad 2

Joker & Harley

Flashpoint

 

Maybe Happens

Justice League Dark - WB has been pushing this one for years, eventually it may stick. 

Shazam!/Black Adam 

Batgirl - Remains to be seen how WB is reacting to Joss Whedon right now.

Man of Steel Sequel - Only seems possible because where else is Cavill's Superman going to show up?

 

Quietly Never Gets Mentioned Again

Cyborg

Green Lantern Corps.

Joker Prequel - This is someone's pipe dream. 

Gotham City Sirens - replaced by Joker & Harley

Nightwing

 

Lots of stuff gets mentioned and forgotten. Remember that Blue & Gold, Blue Beetle and Booster Gold movie announced in like 2015?

post #3290 of 3585

 

Someone needs to go into WB and start knocking some heads together. 

 

And that man is.....

 

 

post #3291 of 3585

Maybe as Affleck's stunt double.

 

HI-YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

post #3292 of 3585

Reeves is now saying all he meant was that The Batman won't feature DCEU cameos and won't be a feeder story for the next JL movie (assuming there is another one), not that it'll be an Elseworlds-type story.

 

http://io9.gizmodo.com/matt-reeves-clarifies-the-batmans-place-in-the-dc-movie-1798399101

 

https://twitter.com/mattreevesLA/status/900784577802678272

post #3293 of 3585

I'm baffled that anyone would've thought otherwise.

post #3294 of 3585
Imagine if people understood the word "sidequel."
post #3295 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post
 

I'm baffled that anyone would've thought otherwise.

 

Well, for the record.....

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

 

I have to wonder if that just means that Reeves isn't going to do any cameos, and that the story won't have any Easter eggs or Thor's Cavern-type scenes, rather than being wholly disconnected.

post #3296 of 3585

The thing about The Batman is it's going to get made no matter what. WB will always be making Batman movies every two to five years. It took an unprecedented disaster like Batman & Robin to throw off the cycle, but now they're in franchise-building mode. 

 

And Reeves, unlike the multitude of other writer/directors that get announced and then quietly quit months later, has been persistent in his insistence that he's actually making the movie. 

 

The question is Affleck. If he doesn't return then a recasting signals to me that there won't be a Justice League 2 and DC's "Phase 2" will just be solo movies. I bet he does return, but even so the movie will treat the rest of the DCEU like Batman Forever mentioning Haly's Circus being "halfway to Metropolis" and Superman Returns namedropping Gotham City on a newscast. 

 

It just really depends on Justice League. Aquaman is already getting made, but I feel like not only Momoa but Ezra Miller will be the breakout and Flashpoint gets fasttracked. But if audiences come away enthusiastic about Batman then Affleck stays, and if Cavill finally catches on I can see a Man of Steel sequel finally materializing.

 

But at the same time I'm not really stressing, because to me BvS and Justice League complete a trilogy that MoS started. I'd be fine with Cavill's Superman getting more screentime, but I'd also be fine with him fading into obscurity (only to be recast/rebooted circa 2025). 

post #3297 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evi View Post

I'm baffled that anyone would've thought otherwise.

“Well I have a vision for a way to do something with that character [Batman] that feels like it resonates with me personally, and a perspective that can grow out into other things. When they [Warner Bros.] approached me, what they said was ‘look, it’s a standalone, it’s not part of the extended universe.’”

You're right. Crystal clear...

Doctor Strange and Guardians of the Galaxy 2 were both pretty much largely removed from servicing the MCU. James Gunn, Scott Derrickson and Kevin Feige never made vague statements about what those movies were going to be, hence, no confusion.
post #3298 of 3585

Marvel would never allow such crass, blasphemous slights against the all mighty brand.

post #3299 of 3585

Well, one could minimize a sound business model paired with a clear vision if one wanted to. 

post #3300 of 3585
I don't have a link, but apparently Gavin O'Connor has been tapped for Suicide Squad 2.
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