CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPECIFIC FILMS › The Franchises › DC Cinematic Universe Discussion
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

DC Cinematic Universe Discussion - Page 70

post #3451 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by superlaser View Post

So it’s decided; we’re remaking Ex Machina with CGI/uncanny valley instead of AI/Turing test with Fraid as Ava, Bart in the Domnall Gleason role, and Henry Cavill’s digital upper lip as the failed prior attempts.

Make it so.
post #3452 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post


Presumably the makers of Elektra never saw Daredevil... her performance in that was more or less the reasoning for my “wtf” statement.

Also, a Greek assassin being played by a light brunette from so-Cal is just KINDA funny.


I mean...I'm pretty sure the makers of Elektra WERE the makers of Daredevil.

post #3453 of 3585
WW and MOS are neck and neck for me. But WW edges out purely thanks to the No Man's Land scene.

I've mentioned how much I loooooooove Superman's first flight but even then, it didn't inspire such a viscerally emotional reaction in me like seeing Diana step out of that trench. The only moment that even comes close for me on a similar emotional level is the ending of Logan.
post #3454 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmacq1 View Post


I mean...I'm pretty sure the makers of Elektra WERE the makers of Daredevil.

I... can’t tell if you’re fucking with me or not, so, well done.

And yes... same makers, I got it.
post #3455 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Call Me Roy View Post


I... can’t tell if you’re fucking with me or not, so, well done.

And yes... same makers, I got it.


I should've added the "But I guess that doesn't necessarily mean they actually saw Daredevil..."

post #3456 of 3585

The tactility and sense of geography in the Smallville fight in particular just puts it above anything in Wonder Woman for me. It's so well-choreographed and blocked.

 

That's one of the problems with the Metropolis fight, it's too chaotic. They're flying all over the place, including into space, and there's no sense of distance or location.

post #3457 of 3585
I went to Daredevil opening weekend (Valentines Day to be exact) by myself, because my gf at the time didn’t give a shit about comics.

It opened somewhat promising. Cool imagery of him on the church, draped over the cross. Neat fight scene in that bar. Awesome display of his abilities and martial arts prowess.

Then he lets the man get RUN OVER by a subway train.

....

Just... why?

How did Affleck, or goddamn Kevin Smith, who did a stint writing Daredevil, AND was in the movie briefly, allow that to happen?
post #3458 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post

WW and MOS are neck and neck for me. But WW edges out purely thanks to the No Man's Land scene.

I've mentioned how much I loooooooove Superman's first flight but even then, it didn't inspire such a viscerally emotional reaction in me like seeing Diana step out of that trench. The only moment that even comes close for me on a similar emotional level is the ending of Logan.


Yeah, No-Man's Land is definitely one of the best "Superheroes are supposed to be inspiring" moments yet, but I'm a sucker for that sort of thing.  Still kind of waiting for a Captain America moment that lands with as much oomph (he's had some good ones but I don't think they've quite completely stuck the landing on it yet).

 

I'd add the Spider-Man 2 Subway-car sequence to the list of great emotional comic-book movie moments, too.  Schmaltzy though it's last little bit might be.

post #3459 of 3585
I’ll take a skinny Steve Rogers jumping on a grenade before I’ll take Diana Prince running through a CGI No Man’s Land and using her shield to block machine gun fire exactly like STEVE FUCKING ROGERS.

Jesus the entirety of the First Avenger is inspiring.
post #3460 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

I’ll take a skinny Steve Rogers jumping on a grenade before I’ll take Diana Prince running through a CGI No Man’s Land and using her shield to block machine gun fire exactly like STEVE FUCKING ROGERS.

Jesus the entirety of the First Avenger is inspiringz


The First Avenger is great!  That last line hits me in the feels every time, and I think is one of the MCU's best moments (largely due to Evans' delivery).

 

But we've never really seen Captain America inspire.  We've seen him lead, but to use a comic reference, I don't think we've quite seen a point that would make the following seem true:

 

"On Olympus, we measure Wisdom against Athena, Speed against Hermes, Power against Zeus. But we measure Courage... against Captain America." -- Hercules

post #3461 of 3585
The “Captain’s orders” scene in Winter Soldier shows people being inspired, and earns it.
post #3462 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

The “Captain’s orders” scene in Winter Soldier shows people being inspired, and earns it.


True, I stand corrected on that, as I do think that's the best example so far as what I'm talking about (from a Captain America/Avengers film), but it still didn't hit me as squarely as the No Man's Land sequence.

post #3463 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

The Killing Joke is a bad Batman story. He does zero detecting, zero punching and zero superheroing. He is literally invited to the carnival at the end by the Joker. 

It's also a bad Joker story because it gives him the most mundane and cliche background (sadsack standup comic with a pregnant wife that dies, really?). The Dark Knight does his hypothetical background(s) much better.

It's a bad Batgirl story for A MILLION REASONS.

It is, however, a great metatextual story on Batman comics in general. And a great queer story if you consider it a romance capped with a kiss.

wink.gif
Considering it would need to be expanded (not like the cartoon was with Batgirl Roof-Fucking), and seeing as Batman is a secondary character, there’s room to play in some interesting sandboxes.

If the whole story is about the Joker’s “one bad day,” and an examination of his madness, could not the same layer be applied to Batman’s relationship with this nemesis? Couldn’t you likewise reveal their past relationship, and the reason Batman is obsessed with this one specific foe, to both better understand their relationship, as well as why Batman is trying to make peace with him in the first place...?

(And if I were the guy in charge, Batman would absolutely kill the Joker in the final scene. Audiences would lose their minds if it was kept under wraps.)
post #3464 of 3585
No, they must fuck.
post #3465 of 3585
Okay, then.

*rewrites unwritten screenplay*
post #3466 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

I’ll take a skinny Steve Rogers jumping on a grenade before I’ll take Diana Prince running through a CGI No Man’s Land and using her shield to block machine gun fire exactly like STEVE FUCKING ROGERS.

Jesus the entirety of the First Avenger is inspiring.

Pretty sure we’re allowed to enjoy both like they were two great AC/DC songs from different albums.
post #3467 of 3585

That's a good example to use considering AC/DC had one good idea and then wrote it 174 more times.

post #3468 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post
 

That's a good example to use considering AC/DC had one good idea and then wrote it 174 more times.

 

ಠ_ಠ

post #3469 of 3585
That was the point. There are more similarities than differences between these two Golden Age characters, their origins and their (to our cynical eyes) slightly naive view of their moral universe.

Is that sequence of Diana copying Steve Rogers, or is it simply another iteration of a popular idea that comics have repeated ad nauseam, mainly because people like it and respond to it?

You can’t say after damn near a century of bullets bouncing off these guys as to who owns that kind of hero shot.
post #3470 of 3585
I love how Diana’s all “I’m going to kill war!” It’s like, “I’m going to kill hurt feelings!”

But then she does, and then WWII happens, and she’s like, “I’m going to open an art gallery!”
post #3471 of 3585
I can say that though because, again you guys are referencing decades of comics, there are only a handful of these movies and DC is already cribbing territory and imagery used by Marvel and Fox.
post #3472 of 3585
WONDER WOMAN was absolutely, without question, lofting from the first CAPTAIN AMERICA (which remains one of the best and least-appreciated MCU films).
post #3473 of 3585
And there's nothing wrong with that.
post #3474 of 3585
I’m not saying The First Avenger isn’t an influence, but I’ve always assumed the Wonder Woman movie premise is inspired by the timejump from WWII to present-day 1970s between the first and second seasons on the Lynda Carter show.
post #3475 of 3585

Wonder Woman is pulling way more from Superman: The Movie than The First Avenger.

post #3476 of 3585
Disagreed. Making it an early-20th Century Period piece in which the protagonist is defined by the United States and its role in a great war is the same template for both films.
post #3477 of 3585

But...she's not defined by the United States? 

 

Steve Trevor is working for the British Government. A British Prime Minister authorizes their mission. She's working with a team with individuals from around the world. And her big hero moment is saving a Belgian village. 

 

The only similarity is that it's about a heroic figure caught in a historical conflict. But the execution's world's apart.

 

Wonder Woman is all about an innately good mythic figure coming into a cynical and ugly world that is elevated by their pure presence...just like Superman just with the 70's replaced with the Great War. First Avenger is more about "We're all in this together" and the world of the film is a MUCH more sanitized version of World War 2. Especially in the way that the movie sidelines Nazis for a made-up supervillain organization.

 

Just because there are surface similarities (VERY on the surface) doesn't mean it's ripping it off.

 

You might as well just accuse Iron Man of ripping off Raimi's Spider-Man. Because they're both about people learning to use their powers for good after a personal loss or injury. 

post #3478 of 3585
Considering Diana was never portrayed as immortal before the Carter TV show, I think I made a good point that got ignored...
post #3479 of 3585
Diana may not be working specifically with United States, but even her costar and audience identifier is American.
post #3480 of 3585

I don't know the Carter show so I can't comment on that.

 

But that is an important distinction that ties into my point. Wonder Woman, much like Superman, are godlike figures descending into our ugly world. Whereas Steve Rogers is the common man of the people elevated to his highest potential through human science. And that distinction is an important part of their respective characters. 

post #3481 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by erik myers View Post

Diana may not be working specifically with United States, but even her costar and audience identifier is American.

 

Steve's costar and audience identifier in The First Avenger is British but that doesn't make him defined by England (Bucky is so sidelined for most of the first movie that he's almost a tertiary character). 

Diana is MUCH more defined by Europe than anything. It's where she chooses to live and work and is shown to be where she chiefly operates. 

post #3482 of 3585

to be fair, Patty Jenkins was clearly aware of the Captain America comparison and decided that setting in in WWI could help differentiate it a bit

 

I don't think setting a superhero in a period setting is quite a template yet

 

that's something that's pretty specific to Captain America's origin story

 

I don't know enough about Wonder Woman's usual origin story though

post #3483 of 3585
The first season of the Carter show was on ABC and set in WWII to be true to the comics origin. It proved expensive, however, due to the sets and costumes, so CBS picked it up and the second and third seasons are set in the present day.

Prior to that, Diana in the comics was always first introduced to the world in “modern times” (you know, due to the sliding timeline of comics), but the show presented this idea of her being ageless and being a fish out of water after being away from the outside world for years.

So I’m not saying The First Avenger didn’t spur them to go this route, but there’s precedent for Diana seeing the world in the past and then stepping away from being Wonder Woman due to the show.
post #3484 of 3585
Nevermind, my brain got confused.
post #3485 of 3585

EVERYONE LISTEN TO BART

post #3486 of 3585
I know things!
post #3487 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

I know things!
Do you also drink and always pay your debts?
post #3488 of 3585
I am a little prick.
post #3489 of 3585

You do always tell us dumb stuff a wise man once said...

post #3490 of 3585

A wise man once said Shut Up, Freeman.

post #3491 of 3585

May as well post this:

 

post #3492 of 3585
Cause nerds have all the answers.
post #3493 of 3585
WB definitely doesn't.
post #3494 of 3585

My opinion? The entire DCEU has been a mish-mash of DC Greatest Hits that don't mesh at all, like The Dark Knight Returns, The Death of Superman, the Nu52, and wherever the hell they got Suicide Squad from. So just get it all out of the system with an adaptation of Kingdom Come; it'd be good at least for a two-part movie. You'd only need to age up Affleck (and not that much), as Gadot and Cavil are playing immortals. Then let the majority of DC adaptations rest for a while while you do a few Wonder Woman movies, maybe Harley Quinn, see if you can get a sequel to Aquaman going. You can only do so many of those, maybe build up some goodwill for after you've rebooted the DC movies. Just start over again with a new Superman, a new Batman--see what develops when you do a few Iron Man-ish movies where no one's a depressed, psychotic dick.

post #3495 of 3585

Suicide Squad was so fucking shameful.  It's been done correctly many times before between classic films, comics, DTV animated films etc...  Suicide Squad was SUCH an easy win.

 

Assault on Arkham was RIGHT THERE.  Send the Squad into Arkham to stop the Joker from doing whatever.  Plenty of Batman rogue cameos, have Batman lurking through out the film like a Jason Voorhees Riddick boogeyman in the shadows threatening to bring the team down one member at a time, have some fun and charming performances and make the team actual scummy villains.  It could have been so good so easily, so much fun.

 

They had Margot and Will Smith!!!!  HOW DID THEY FUCK IT UP?!  It was a soft pitch right over the plate, UNDER HAND.

post #3496 of 3585

But they played Bohemian Rhapsody! That's gotta count for something right?

post #3497 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
 

Suicide Squad was so fucking shameful.

 

HOW DID THEY FUCK IT UP?!  

 

Bad choice of villain/over-arching plot.  Bad pacing.  Robbie wearing too much clothing.

post #3498 of 3585
Quote:
Originally Posted by catartik View Post

I can say that though because, again you guys are referencing decades of comics, there are only a handful of these movies and DC is already cribbing territory and imagery used by Marvel and Fox.

 

That's the big issue currently facing DC.  Their 1.5 good movies (WW and JL) only got to be that way by cribbing extensively and specifically from Marvel movies.  To that end:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Codename View Post
 

But...she's not defined by the United States? 

 

Steve Trevor is working for the British Government. A British Prime Minister authorizes their mission. She's working with a team with individuals from around the world. And her big hero moment is saving a Belgian village. 

 

The only similarity is that it's about a heroic figure caught in a historical conflict. But the execution's world's apart.

 

Wonder Woman is all about an innately good mythic figure coming into a cynical and ugly world that is elevated by their pure presence...just like Superman just with the 70's replaced with the Great War. First Avenger is more about "We're all in this together" and the world of the film is a MUCH more sanitized version of World War 2. Especially in the way that the movie sidelines Nazis for a made-up supervillain organization.

 

Just because there are surface similarities (VERY on the surface) doesn't mean it's ripping it off.

 

You might as well just accuse Iron Man of ripping off Raimi's Spider-Man. Because they're both about people learning to use their powers for good after a personal loss or injury. 

 

You're right that WW is, I believe the term is "coded", as more continental than American.  It's one of the few ways in which WW does differentiate itself from FA in a tangible way.  But we're not talking about surface similarities and broad heroic moments here.  Every movie in the genre fits the same template if you draw the borders fuzzy enough (that's more or less what makes it a genre), but not any two superhero movies will trace their outlines this closely: 

 

1) Hero is introduced as a kid who wants to fight but is being held back.

2) Hero discovers/gains superpowers and goes to Europe to fight a World War (with a round shield) 

3) After their homebase is surprise attacked by Germans

4) Strikes up a romance with a worldier soldier

5) Military brass tries to stop them from fighting despite their superpowers, but

6) They throw themselves into a dramatic rescue missions behind enemy lines, inspiring the Allies

7) Gathering a crew of broadly multiethnic sidekicks in the process

8)  Learns that the supervillain fighting on the German side have their own agenda involving flying a special bomber out of a secret base to wreak havoc on the Allies

9) In final assault on the secret lair, the male lead heroically sacrifices himself piloting the special bomber away from his target,

10) Hero carries their tragic romantic torch forward to a present-day epilogue, where they ready to join the world as a superhero

 

This isn't basic Hero's Journey beats we're talking about.  This is highly specific stuff.  And of course, Justice League steals even more shamelessly from the Avengers movies.

post #3499 of 3585

The Wrap reviews Will Beall's 2011 Justice League script and, boy, does it sound like an overloaded fanboy dream and total mess.

 

https://www.thewrap.com/justice-league-early-script-batman-wonder-woman-child-hawkman-will-beall-2011-suicide-squad/

post #3500 of 3585

I actually kind of like the sound of some of it. But I also like the current Justice League movie and am therefore a terrible human being! 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: The Franchises
CHUD.com Community › Forums › SPECIFIC FILMS › The Franchises › DC Cinematic Universe Discussion