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Suicide Squad pre-release discussion thread - Page 44

post #2151 of 2785

I do wonder how, if at all, this fits into the greater meta-narrative of the DCU.

 

Each phase of the Marvel films tends to subtly build the macro in each movie, but the macro of the DCU is the Cosmic Cubes and...I really hope Suicide Squad has nothing to do with that. 

 

But apparently Ezra Miller has a Flash cameo (TOO SOON?!?!?), which is nice because I worried all the criminals had been caught by Batman.

post #2152 of 2785

So....Marvel has gems and DC has cubes? 

post #2153 of 2785
I imagine Waller will play a role in tying things together. Maybe she'll bop around the DCU talking to all the big players like Nick Fury.

Could be Waller with a vial of Batman DNA. She likes to do that a lot in the comics. Or any random thing like:

Rebooted league of Shadows.

Shot of Apokolips.

Supes waking up in a coffin.

Someone using the word "Crisis."

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will illustrate that fans and suits have different notions about "pivotal."
post #2154 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post

Mid credits scene confirmed

And it supposed to be a "pivotal" one.

The photo used in that article clearly shows how Deadshot's mask has been fitted for Smith's jug ears.
post #2155 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightning Slim View Post

I imagine Waller will play a role in tying things together. Maybe she'll bop around the DCU talking to all the big players like Nick Fury.

Could be Waller with a vial of Batman DNA. She likes to do that a lot in the comics. Or any random thing like:

Rebooted league of Shadows.

Shot of Apokolips.

Supes waking up in a coffin.

Someone using the word "Crisis."

Whatever it is, I'm sure it will illustrate that fans and suits have different notions about "pivotal."
Samuel L. Jackson in an eyepatch and trench coat walks out of the shadows and says something that implies Waller is his sister.
post #2156 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
 

So....Marvel has gems and DC has cubes? 


Yep, although my bad I said Cosmic Cube when I meant Mother Box.

 

In my defense, Jack Kirby created both.

 

And can I just say that after the first Captain America and Thor movies captured the Kirby aesthetic pretty perfectly, I'm a little sad that the Fourth World concepts are in the hands of Snyder. Sigh.

post #2157 of 2785

Kristopher Tapler from Variety just tweeted this:

 

 

https://twitter.com/kristapley/status/759067181367689216

 

 

There's some more clarification in the replies (still light on the details though):

 

https://twitter.com/kristapley/status/759076830032703488

 

post #2158 of 2785
Aw. Hope it's not true!
post #2159 of 2785

It would not shock or surprise me in the SLIGHTEST.  

 

BvS and Man Of Steel all being evidently fantastic behind the scenes, the studio heads get all high on their own supply, it's hyped to the moon, and then it comes out and it's a movie from that doofus who made Sucker Punch, or in this case, Sabotage which could possibly be worse.  

 

If Squad sucks how much will that hurt peoples excitement for this universe in general?  This was the great hope.  Justice League is very questionable and Wonder Woman looks great, but is that enough after possibly three meh to bad DC movies a row?

 

BURN IT ALL DOWN START OVER.

post #2160 of 2785
Nooooo!

Nah, not a big deal. If true, I feel bad for the people who worked their ass off on it, but otherwise, what are you going to do?
post #2161 of 2785
Thread Starter 
My 180 on this film might be a full 360.

I doubt Wonder Woman, written by Zack Snyder, will be any good at this point.
post #2162 of 2785

It's going to be very tough to make a good, cynical, nihilistic movie out of characters that have been hopeful and optimistic for almost their entire existence.

 

SUICIDE SQUAD is basically the only chance this version of DC's universe has.

post #2163 of 2785
Thread Starter 
It's ok guys, Jimmy Fallon said "It's so good".

During his interview of Will Smith... It's going to be ok...
post #2164 of 2785
Beaks tweeted out "judging from early buzz, sounds like the Marvel checks cleared" a few days back.
post #2165 of 2785

I hope this isn't true but then I remember how I awful I thought End Of Watch was, and that this is the same director.

 

Still, going to try and stay positive until I hear from a reliable source. There have been several movies recently which I've loved but the critics shat all over, so we'll see.

post #2166 of 2785

I feel like I'll find something to like about this movie no matter what. 

 

And hoping for critical and box office success is for lesser franchises. Wonder Woman and Justice League already exist! The worst that can happen if SS fails is we won't get a direct sequel, but you know these characters will be popping up in later movies. 

 

Even if every single DC movie underperforms I bet we still get a JL2 and a few Affleck Batman movies. I can't lose! I'll get more movies without this exploding into an endless onslaught of two movies a year ad infinitum, and always have this strange set of a half dozen bizarre conceptually films.

 

And a decade from now when they start again with a shiny, happy, "true" adaptation of the source material, it'll be bland and boring. And I'll just watch BvS Ultimate mutha again.

post #2167 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

I hope this isn't true but then I remember how I awful I thought End Of Watch was, and that this is the same director.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post

  I can't lose! 

post #2168 of 2785

I've never seen Sabotage, but the ratio of clever dialogue on the page to awkward execution on film seems to line up with the Suicide Squad clips I've seen.

post #2169 of 2785
Sabotage is one of the most violent (in an ugly way), vulgar (in an unpleasant way) and mean-spirited movies I've ever seen. It has it's entertaining moments but it was pretty off-putting overall. But it's so extreme that I can't even picture the same director being able to do a pg-13 without being severely hampered by it. I hope I'm wrong though. I WANT to like it. And if BvS can get an R-rated cut then this one should definitely as well. Seems like a much likelier candidate for it..
post #2170 of 2785

I liked Training Day when I saw it a decade ago. End of Watch was endless bro this and bro that, kind of aimless but okay. Never saw Fury.

 

I'm not trying to be negative here, but I really think SS's success or failure will have an effect on whether or not The Flash and Aquaman movies happen or get delayed. WB can't wait a year to see how JL performs, so if SS sputters I bet Flash and Aquaman get delayed to 2019 and we get Affleck's The Batman in 2018.

post #2171 of 2785

It would be SO odd to see a film universe of this size and scope collapse and fail.  It would absolutely kill the other proposed universes like Ghostbusters.  

post #2172 of 2785
End of Watch sucked. And I never watched Fury either. War movies ain't my thing..
post #2173 of 2785

I think the only other shared universe that gets pulled off in this strange Hollywood experiment is King Kong vs. Godzilla. And even then that's one movie, I doubt we end up with a dozen Kaiju movies.

 

I have my doubts that the MIB/Jump Street movie materializes. Ghostbusters will get one sequel and that will be it. The only other connected movies I can see is the proposed Hasbro stuff with GI Joe and others, but I kind of doubt it.

 

The reason Marvel has mastered this is because the creatives are indistinguishable from the corporates. They're a well-oiled machine. That's why I laughed at the early word that DC's movies are director-driven, because it's one or the other guys.

 

Edited to add: Like, does anyone really think Tom Cruise's Mummy movie will acknowledge Dracula Untold? Hahaha

post #2174 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

End of Watch sucked. And I never watched Fury either. War movies ain't my thing..

Fury was actually very good.  He's a hit and miss guy who after Fury is due for a miss.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I think the only other shared universe that gets pulled off in this strange Hollywood experiment is King Kong vs. Godzilla. And even then that's one movie, I doubt we end up with a dozen Kaiju movies.

 

I have my doubts that the MIB/Jump Street movie materializes. Ghostbusters will get one sequel and that will be it. The only other connected movies I can see is the proposed Hasbro stuff with GI Joe and others, but I kind of doubt it.

 

The reason Marvel has mastered this is because the creatives are indistinguishable from the corporates. They're a well-oiled machine. That's why I laughed at the early word that DC's movies are director-driven, because it's one or the other guys.

Pac Rim 2!!!!  Ohhh I'm so excited!  The robot beat up the monster with a BOAT Bart.  A BOAT.  Like a giant baseball bat.  It was so cool.

 

I doubt Ghostbusters gets a sequel.  It didn't make money.  

post #2175 of 2785

Despite how much I enjoy the Marvel movies, and how much I ended up hating BvS, I DO want this movie universe to work. I'm actually a pretty big Superman fan (which, granted, should give me further desire to see everything here fall apart, given how he's been treated), and I'd really like a viable alternative to the MCU. If DC just copied everything that Marvel did, it would be quite dull and boring (much like if Pepsi and Coke were the very same drink), and so it's nice to see WB letting directors apply their own vision to this movie universe rather than forcing them to adhere to one specific vision. I'm not as confident as some with the recent appointment of Geoff Johns as DC President but, if he can steer the ship right after the mess Snyder recently made, then it's all good. Batman has always been at the forefront of the DC universe but there are other great characters too and some of them have wonderful stories in their comic book histories (most of which have been explored in the form of animated shows and live action television shows) which would make fantastic movies, and it would definitely be a shame for those stories not to be told on the big screen. 

 

tl;dr version: I hope this movie turns out good.

post #2176 of 2785
I like what Marvel's doing. I REALLY like it. I just wish that every goddamned EVERYTHING didn't feel the need to copy that approach. It's like after Batman Begins and Casino Royale came out and then it was REBOOTS EVERYWHERE! I like those two movies a hell of a lot but they started a negative thing that killed the wacky never-ending sequel trend. I liked that better...where they'd just make sequel after sequel no matter how much sense it did or didn't make. They just kept plugging on. Now if they make one or two of something and it goes bad it's "kill it and reboot it over again." That's so much more boring..
post #2177 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSaxon View Post
 

Despite how much I enjoy the Marvel movies, and how much I ended up hating BvS, I DO want this movie universe to work. I'm actually a pretty big Superman fan (which, granted, should give me further desire to see everything here fall apart, given how he's been treated), and I'd really like a viable alternative to the MCU. If DC just copied everything that Marvel did, it would be quite dull and boring (much like if Pepsi and Coke were the very same drink), and so it's nice to see WB letting directors apply their own vision to this movie universe rather than forcing them to adhere to one specific vision. I'm not as confident as some with the recent appointment of Geoff Johns as DC President but, if he can steer the ship right after the mess Snyder recently made, then it's all good. Batman has always been at the forefront of the DC universe but there are other great characters too and some of them have wonderful stories in their comic book histories (most of which have been explored in the form of animated shows and live action television shows) which would make fantastic movies, and it would definitely be a shame for those stories not to be told on the big screen. 

 

tl;dr version: I hope this movie turns out good.

I only like what Marvel is doing for Marvel. I'm one of the few guys that has enjoyed each DC movie and appreciates how different  they are from one another. You can't say that SS's neon nightmare is grim and gritty like Snyder's grey concrete wasteland, it's a different kind of dark. And neither look like WW.

 

What I'm saying is, and I know my philosophy is weird, I appreciate what WB/DC is doing but I don't think it'll work. This shared universe will peter out by 2020. 

 

But unlike other failed franchises that I admire like a car crash, The Amazing Spider-Man duology for instance, I'll actually get a good chunk of movies from this just out of sheer force of will. But it'll be that half dozen sweet spot instead of 20.

post #2178 of 2785
I was VERY excited for BvS.  Even with the movie we got, I honestly do dig it because the movie I wanted is in there.  The mature and interesting adult approach to these characters with GORGEOUS cinematography, a look and feel that puts Marvel and their generally flat grey concrete basic look to absolute shame.  The movie has the "feel" of an epic.  If they had truly brought in some DC experts to help really find the balance between what DC fans want, and this higher vision it could have been something truly genuinely special.  The DC "Avengers" announcing the arrival of a phenomena.  

 

It's as if that gorgeous higher vision was a movie witnessed by a hyper 12 year old, and the movie we got was the 12 year olds crazy home made fan film attempting to remake it.  

post #2179 of 2785

I just don't understand how we've ended up in a world where the guys who wrote Pain & Gain are able to write a more coherent script than the guys who wrote Argo and Blade.

post #2180 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul755 View Post

Beaks tweeted out "judging from early buzz, sounds like the Marvel checks cleared" a few days back.

 

Wasn't he talking about Dr. Strange?

post #2181 of 2785
I started reading the first trade paperback of the original "Suicide Squad" series from the '80s.

And holy shit, they fight a super-powered terrorist group called The Jihad!

And there's of course no Harley Quinn.
post #2182 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I have my doubts that the MIB/Jump Street movie materializes. Ghostbusters will get one sequel and that will be it. 

Will it? Ghostbusters isn't doing so well, espeially when you factor in marketing.

post #2183 of 2785

MIB/Jump Street will be a home run.

 

And I think Waaaaaalt is right, Ghostbusters (2016) 2 isn't a lock.

 

Sony can't exactly will a franchise out of thin air if they can't sell enough tickets for the first one.

 

At least Amazing Spider-Man did well enough for them to make a sequel.

 

With Ghostbusters repeating the same joke won't make it funnier.

 

If they want to change up the director or the cast, or try a fresh angle, it might be enough to work -- but not if they keep the same cast and Feig in the director's chair.

 

They just need a cooler take on the GB lore.

post #2184 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I started reading the first trade paperback of the original "Suicide Squad" series from the '80s.

And holy shit, they fight a super-powered terrorist group called The Jihad!

And there's of course no Harley Quinn.


Yesssss! They're terrific books! Let me know what you think about Enchantress and Cap Boomerang!
post #2185 of 2785
I'm ready for Captain Boomerang to die already. What a pain in the ass.
post #2186 of 2785
Isn't it perfect that they cast Jai Courtney?!
post #2187 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraid uh noman View Post

Sabotage is one of the most violent (in an ugly way), vulgar (in an unpleasant way) and mean-spirited movies I've ever seen. It has it's entertaining moments but it was pretty off-putting overall. But it's so extreme that I can't even picture the same director being able to do a pg-13 without being severely hampered by it. I hope I'm wrong though. I WANT to like it. And if BvS can get an R-rated cut then this one should definitely as well. Seems like a much likelier candidate for it..

 

 

I agree with everything you say, and that's precisely why I think it will be reconsidered and elevated to Top 10 Arnold movies. That he had the balls to make a movie this scuzzy is amazing. I thought it was entertaining as hell, even though I felt the need of bathing in rubbing alcohol afterwards. 

post #2188 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill View Post
 

MIB/Jump Street will be a home run.

 

And I think Waaaaaalt is right, Ghostbusters (2016) 2 isn't a lock.

 

Sony can't exactly will a franchise out of thin air if they can't sell enough tickets for the first one.

 

At least Amazing Spider-Man did well enough for them to make a sequel.

 

With Ghostbusters repeating the same joke won't make it funnier.

 

If they want to change up the director or the cast, or try a fresh angle, it might be enough to work -- but not if they keep the same cast and Feig in the director's chair.

 

They just need a cooler take on the GB lore.

If MIB 23 happens, and sure it could, it's not even a shared universe. It's more of a crossover along the lines of Alien vs. Predator and Freddy vs. Jason.

 

That's the thing, there are sequels and crossovers and spin-offs, but a shared universe is when multiple franchises inhabit the same world and affect each other. It'd be like if it was revealed James Bond, Mission: Impossible and Jason Bourne all existed together, and came together in a big event movie.

 

What's funny is Fox has had something like this for years with the Alien, Predator and now Prometheus series, but they haven't had the initiative to tie things together. That's what makes it a shared universe, some sort of driving force and focus, like Infinity Gems or Mother Boxes. 

 

Really only Marvel and DC have this at the moment. I think the only other real possibility is the Universal Monsters, because King Kong vs. Godzilla is really just a crossover.

 

I don't think a Ghostbusters 2 is a guarantee, but my point was that's the most GB will get. No shared universe.

 

Could I say shared universe one more time? Shared universe.

post #2189 of 2785
Freddy/Jason and Alien/Predator aren't shared universe, just crossovers?

Whether they were little winks or not, they established they exist in the same world like a decade before the "crossover" films.
post #2190 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradito View Post

I'm ready for Captain Boomerang to die already. What a pain in the ass.

If he dies I'll cry. He's one of the best things about the marketing.  

post #2191 of 2785

Will Harley call Joker "Mr J" like in the series? 

post #2192 of 2785
They released a clip where she calls him "Mr. J"
post #2193 of 2785

And puddin'!

 

I hear Batman is the most Animated Series he's ever been.  So I should be pleased.  

post #2194 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

Freddy/Jason and Alien/Predator aren't shared universe, just crossovers?

Whether they were little winks or not, they established they exist in the same world like a decade before the "crossover" films.

I don't think I'm explaining myself very well. Yes, FvJ and AvP establish that their characters share a universe, but they're not capital Shared Universes compared to Marvel and DC because they, A) weren't created that way and B) don't have some driving force that propels the narrative forward.

 

If there had been a, say, New Line Cinema Shared Universe there would have been standalone Freddy, Jason, Leatherface and Ash movies where they were all separately connected to the, say, Necronomicon. After a movie or two from each, they would all come together in one movie in relation to said MacGuffin.

 

You can connect characters all you want, but what grabs the audience's attention is the allure of puzzle pieces and the push of driving toward something. The first phase of Marvel had the notion of forming the Avengers. Ever since then has been the Infinity Gems. DC will be doing something similar with Mother Boxes.

 

Kudos to The Mummy for apparently introducing Russell Crowe as a Dr. Jeckyl that will get his own movie down the line. I still don't think the Universal Monster shared universe will succeed, because is anyone talking about Dracula Untold?

post #2195 of 2785
I don't buy that audiences are particularly enamored of the "connect the bits" aspect of these movies. (At least, not general audiences - certainly it means something to comics nerds.) From everything I've seen with my "normal" friends and family members, the appeal has everything to do with getting to see characters and/or actors they've come to enjoy watching in reliably entertaining movies and pretty much nothing to do with what the Big Plot Arc might happen to be; that stuff they mostly consider to be anything from a non-concern to a minor annoyance. (In particular, my mother has been getting a bit exasperated with the endless Thanatos teases and was actually relieved to see him having any kind of connection to the actual plot in Guardians of the Galaxy.)
post #2196 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post

I don't buy that audiences are particularly enamored of the "connect the bits" aspect of these movies. (At least, not general audiences - certainly it means something to comics nerds.) From everything I've seen with my "normal" friends and family members, the appeal has everything to do with getting to see characters and/or actors they've come to enjoy watching in reliably entertaining movies and pretty much nothing to do with what the Big Plot Arc might happen to be; that stuff they mostly consider to be anything from a non-concern to a minor annoyance. (In particular, my mother has been getting a bit exasperated with the endless Thanatos teases and was actually relieved to see him having any kind of connection to the actual plot in Guardians of the Galaxy.)

 

I completely agree.

 

Beyond the set-up to the Avengers, I don't think the Universe approach has been proven to get a***s in seats in and of itself.

 

I mean, it's not like the characters everyone wants to see, your Iron Mans, your Black Widows, your Hulks, exist independently of the puzzle pieces (the macguffins, etc) and vice versa -- where you find one, you'll find the over.

 

These movies would do just as well, and maybe even better, if they cut back on the serialized approach and told decent stand-alone stories. The MacGuffins can still be there but they can be introduced and explained in one movie instead of barely exploring what they are and saving it for the next film.

 

I don't think John Q. Non-Comicbook Fan really cares about the gauntlet, the gems, the cosmic cube, what have you -- they just want to see Cap and Iron Man battle it out. It's gotten so convoluted at this point, in both the MCU and the DCU, that I'm sure it's bound to be turning more casual viewers off the whole superhero genre.

 

I think the fastest way to improve these movies, irrespective of changing up the Universe approach, is to introduce some compelling villains.

 

We haven't had a decent villain since Loki and from what we've already seen, Thanos isn't going to cut it.

post #2197 of 2785

Disagree. You can have a successful Batman series, you can have a successful Superman series, but the way you get people to buy into a shared universe is the puzzle pieces and the momentum.

 

I've made comparisons to Lost, Harry Potter and Saw before. Yes people love the Marvel characters, but why the MCU has more in common with those three series than FvJ and AvP is because of the mythology and the promise of an eventual payoff.

post #2198 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

Disagree. You can have a successful Batman series, you can have a successful Superman series, but the way you get people to buy into a shared universe is the puzzle pieces and the momentum.

 

I've made comparisons to Lost, Harry Potter and Saw before. Yes people love the Marvel characters, but why the MCU has more in common with those three series than FvJ and AvP is because of the mythology and the promise of an eventual payoff.

 

Then how do you explain the success of Winter Soldier, Civil War and the Iron Man series, which have no connection to the Thanos or Infinity Stones plot?

 

No one is going to these movies because they desperately need clues about the purple alien's master plan. They go because they enjoy spending time watching these heroes do their schtick, and anything else they may get as far as an overarching plot is gravy.

post #2199 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartleby_Scriven View Post
 

I've made comparisons to Lost, Harry Potter and Saw before. Yes people love the Marvel characters, but why the MCU has more in common with those three series than FvJ and AvP is because of the mythology and the promise of an eventual payoff.

 

With the MCU, the payoff was clear at the beginning: all these movies are going to culminate with The Avengers -- the first real Marvel team-up film ever (outside of Fantastic Four).

 

There was something novel and exciting about the whole thing. I think audiences were more curious how they were actually going to pull it off than they were about Loki's staff or anything else.

 

The problem now is, we've had The Avengers, superheroes are teaming up in their solo films -- audiences have been spoilt.

 

The mythology has been run into the ground, each week Agents of Shield plays around in the same playground and fans get more exposition than they ever wanted or can handle about the McGuffins from the films.

 

There can never be a payoff now because just like Lost they are making it up as they go and they have a financial incentive to keep the franchises going forever, recasting leads when they can't afford to re-hire the actors or they want out, and they will inevitably fall into the same traps that the comic books themselves created and fell into.

post #2200 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sherman Davies View Post
 

 

Then how do you explain the success of Winter Soldier, Civil War and the Iron Man series, which have no connection to the Thanos or Infinity Stones plot?

 

No one is going to these movies because they desperately need clues about the purple alien's master plan. They go because they enjoy spending time watching these heroes do their schtick, and anything else they may get as far as an overarching plot is gravy.

Like I said, there can be successful movie series on their own. Years of Batman movies prove that. They key to a successful shared universe is mythology and momentum. Mythology involves the gems, and other things, but a big part of Civil War was it building on earlier movies and also creating a new status quo. That's momentum.

 

The new momentum, the second key component, is now that unregistered superheroes are criminals. That will be felt throughout the rest of phase 3.

 

As for audiences feeling ennui over being bombarded with all this, of course they are. There's a lot of good will at this point that will probably get used up soon. But there's an MCU, and not just popular standalone Iron Man and Captain America movies, because of mythology and momentum.

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