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Suicide Squad pre-release discussion thread - Page 49

post #2401 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by t3cii View Post

I like it.

As do I. Bleh! I say to you sir! Bleh!
post #2402 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

They've apparently given Geoff Johns the equivalent role of Kevin Feige, but I remain skeptical. WB seems to be almost Trumpian these days: from the outside, they appear to be sabotaging their own efforts at success, with each new decision making things worse rather than better.

 

 

Marvel Moles!

post #2403 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malmordo View Post

If anyone over here recognized Rik Mayall's name it would most likely be because of the terrible comedy DROP DEAD FRED.

I did actually see an episode of Bottom when I visited England in 1993. I found it very funny.

If you're my age, it would be "The Young Ones". A Joker reminiscent of Mayall's character in that would be... interesting.

I could still see "Suicide Squad" hitting pretty well despite the reviews. The vibe I'm getting is that word of mouth could be "dumb but fun" as opposed to BVS where it was "dumb but also sucks the life out of you".
post #2404 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

Film hasn't even opened or failed to perform yet and autopsies are already being published:

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/suicide-squads-secret-drama-rushed-916693

 

From the article, more confirmation that WB simply does not have its shit together re: the DCCU.

Jesus.

post #2405 of 2785

I know I'm a  Marvel apologist, but at this point, the difference in quality, approach and management of these two competing companies is pretty much settled.

DC is under WB's thumb, while Marvel, the moment executive (Perlmutter and company) powers got in the way of film-making, Disney stepped in and made Marvel have total control over how it develops its movies.

I mean, Marvel has pretty much hit a homerun  (mostly) when it comes to casting and finding directors, and they clearly learned their lessons from Thor 2, Iron Man 2 and AOU.

Seriously? Marvel hiring the Russo Brothers, Shane Black, James Gunn and now Scott Derrickson, Taika Waititi, Ryan Coogler and Jon Watts? While DC goes with Snyder and more traditional studio system choices? (Seriously, the whole list of directors for phase 3 of Marvel is insane. Ten years ago, i would had called anyone crazy if they told me those directors where making superhero movies)

Yes, Marvel has a sameness and overall formulaic approach, but they learned from phase 2 that keeping the MCU cohesive and under control shouldnt get in the way of director's vision and storytelling, something that DC will never be able to do, being under WB's thumb.

Its sad as hell, because as much as I love the Marvel Universe, I WANT good movies of the DC superheroes.

I wanted All Star Superman or Superman: Birthright, not Man of Steel/BvS, dammit. I want to see something like JLU or BTAS onscreen, given the acting talent and potential for greatness.

But as long as WB keeps operating under the traditional system, it wont happen. They learned all the wrong lessons from Nolan's Batman trilogy, and they are now stuck with it.

 

Hell, at this point, I want Marvel to make a Thunderbolts movie just to further show up DC.*

 

*Seriously, a team of Marvel villains, posing as heroes in new identities under Zemo's command as they take on an undrground threat the Sokovia Accords prevent the Avengers to get involved with? I would watch that.

post #2406 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaz View Post

 

I have always been in the pro-Age of Ultron camp.

 

AOU, for all its faults, has great action sequences, several small character moments and more.

I mean, I cant imagine DC doing a scene (or handling it the way Whedon did) like Natasha and Bruce's talk in Clint's farm.

I mean, its a superhero movie were one character reveals his powers have make him sterile and the other reveals she was sterilized against her will, and its handled with a sense of intimacy and sadness that I shudder to think what it would had been with Snyder at the helm*

Hell, Civi War's reveal of Tony's parents's fates, along with the true scope of Zemo's plan and his motivations are scenes i would never expected to see in a superhero blockbuster either.**

 

*I actually had to explain this scene to a a niece, and she was heartbroken. She inmediatly realized (outloud), that Bruce and Natasha had gotten together because they both were damaged and found solace and happyness in each other. It floored me that a 12 year old could see the subtext on that scene. 

 

**The fight between Cap, Tony and Bucky is absolutely superior to anything in BvS not because of the action or spectacle, but because of the dramatic weight and emotional investment of the audience in the characters. Hell, just see the reactions of the audience in either movie, and you can tell inmediatl which one is the better film.

post #2407 of 2785
I kinda like Vince Mancini's review. Here's an excerpt:

"In 2016, earnestness is a standard feature of superhero movies (or whatever you want to call this one, please don’t “actually” me, bro), in which filmmakers take great pains to convince you that the story, at least thematically, is about real issues affecting the world and we should care, you guys! Suicide Squad, by contrast, clearly enjoys the obnoxious goth kid dress-up aspects of the superhero genre more than the opportunities for profound metaphor. It’s less a college kid waxing philosophical about the world’s problems than a townie rapping along to Papa Roach at a kicker before his mom comes home. Broken home, brooooken hooooooooome…

And you know what? I kind of liked it. In the current climate of superhero movies firmly ensconced in their own metaphorical assholes, it was refreshing to watch one that just really wanted me to check out its new tribal tat. How often do you see someone using a 15-year-old Eminem song as a pump-up jam? David Ayer is back, he’s on the rag, and he is ovulating…"
post #2408 of 2785

A thinkpiece that quotes my pre-emptive thinkpiece from 2015! http://moviepilot.com/posts/4012960

 

I am seriously curious how Leto's Joker is approached sexually. And I just know there's a prison rape joke somewhere in the movie.

post #2409 of 2785
He sounds sort of like some people on this forum.
post #2410 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

I kinda like Vince Mancini's review. Here's an excerpt:

"In 2016, earnestness is a standard feature of superhero movies (or whatever you want to call this one, please don’t “actually” me, bro), in which filmmakers take great pains to convince you that the story, at least thematically, is about real issues affecting the world and we should care, you guys! Suicide Squad, by contrast, clearly enjoys the obnoxious goth kid dress-up aspects of the superhero genre more than the opportunities for profound metaphor. It’s less a college kid waxing philosophical about the world’s problems than a townie rapping along to Papa Roach at a kicker before his mom comes home. Broken home, brooooken hooooooooome…

And you know what? I kind of liked it. In the current climate of superhero movies firmly ensconced in their own metaphorical assholes, it was refreshing to watch one that just really wanted me to check out its new tribal tat. How often do you see someone using a 15-year-old Eminem song as a pump-up jam? David Ayer is back, he’s on the rag, and he is ovulating…"

 

This...this makes me hopeful. Does that make me a bad person?

post #2411 of 2785
Was anybody really ever expecting the movie to be a carefully thought out metaphor for real world problems? Who on earth would watch the trailers and assume that?

It looks like a fun zany action romp.
post #2412 of 2785
Yes, that's exactly what I wanted: Big attitude and style. If it's succeeds at its ambitions, who cares?
post #2413 of 2785

did someone just say that AoU had good action?!

 

*forcefully steers himself away from thread de-rail*

 

whew, okay.

 

so, after a day of scanning some of these reviews, it really feels like this movie isn't as bad as a casual glance at its aggregate scores would lead you to believe. it just has some major glaring flaws that are obvious to everyone and so the number of outright positive reviews is few.

 

the reviews that outright hated it seem to be critics that didn't have any fun with it or hated the tone of it, but in general a lot of the reviews paint a movie that sounds fairly enjoyable due to some of the key performers.

post #2414 of 2785
AoU has great action. Compare Tony vs Hulk directly to Batman Vs Superman and tell me again how you don't like the action in Age of Ultron.

Action is not and has never been that movies problem.
post #2415 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

AoU has great action. Compare Tony vs Hulk directly to Batman Vs Superman and tell me again how you don't like the action in Age of Ultron.

Action is not and has never been that movies problem.

 

 

*FIST BUMP*

post #2416 of 2785

I find myself feeling sorry for Ben Affleck. The guy survived Affleckgate when he was first announced in the role, gave the best performance of Batman v Superman, and - judging by the Justice League trailer - has the potential to turn that character around using sheer charisma and his movie star smile alone, and become a really great Batman.

 
And yet his version of the character has now appeared in two of the most critically despised movies of the year. 
 
He deserves better. 
post #2417 of 2785
I wonder if he could time travel to post Argo if he would avoid this altogether.
post #2418 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

I wonder if he could time travel to post Argo if he would avoid this altogether.

I feel like we should be using time travel for more important things. 

post #2419 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waaaaaaaalt View Post
 

I feel like we should be using time travel for more important things. 

Stopping him from starring in Gigli?

post #2420 of 2785
Can we both save the DCU and smother Trump in his tacky gold trimmed crib?
post #2421 of 2785

the action in AoU is garbage. it's just a bunch of weightless CG whiz-bang that feels like it was already completely directed in the storyboard stage with some inserted reaction shots and quips from actors and some empty set or on-location footage for backgrounds. but I'm not marking AoU down compared to other Hollywood stuff and especially not compared to DC stuff, I know this is the status quo now.

 

I demand better and films like The Raid movies and Fury Road still give me that better stuff, however rare it may be these days.

 

I was hopeful that Suicide Squad would give me a bit more of that grounded and gritty but still dazzling and extreme action, but it sounds like it falls a bit flat in that department and apparently the third act is still lots of glowing thingamajigs and sky portals and shit.

post #2422 of 2785

let me revise that statement though by saying that if you're a huge comic book fan, I can get why most Marvel action would really work for you. it is like comic panels come to life. they have good pre-viz departments on those movies.

 

I am way more of a movie fan than a comic fan, so I want action that really feels directed by the director, you know.

post #2423 of 2785
How condescending of you. I guess Spider-man 2 sucks too.

Youre under the impression the Raid fight scenes were entirely dreamed up by the director huh?
post #2424 of 2785

I would never say that any of the action in a marvel film rivals something truly amazing and unique as Fury Road or The Raid, but in terms of their genre and the overal blockbuster quality?

No way they are mediocre or bad, at all.

I think that the only action sequence in a superhero film thats not in a Marvel movie is Spider-Man's 2 clock tower/train fight, and thats all on Raimi.

But Civil War's Budapest chase, Airport battle and Bunker Finale? All of them handle their action, characters and transitioning between sequences pretty damn well.

Miles ahead of BvS or MoS, or any Michale Bay CG/explosion nonsense.

Hell, I absolutely love the final Cap/Bucky/Iron Man fight, mainly because of how it starts big, and with each action beat scales down to the point that it ends up with Tony and Steve just fighting hand to hand.

It absolutely works in terms of the movie's set up and character building, so its a great sequence, even if it follows the Marvel comic book styled action.

 

Hell, I hope Derickson actually lives up to the Inception like vibe Dr Strange's trailer promises; superhero action with magic altering reality and perception?

That would be unique.

post #2425 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

This...this makes me hopeful. Does that make me a bad person?

Nope. It sounds kinda stupidly delightful... I like how the upshot in that review is that we've somehow already entered a nostalgic age for the early-Aughts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Was anybody really ever expecting the movie to be a carefully thought out metaphor for real world problems? Who on earth would watch the trailers and assume that?

It looks like a fun zany action romp.

I don't think anybody was expecting this movie to be thoughtful or metaphorical-- more a point a comparison with all the freedom versus security stuff in the Cap movies, or BVS rolling out a hopped-up-on-Ritalin Lex Junior every five minutes to read random pages from "Philosophy for Dummies".

If "Suicide Squad" has absolutely nothing on its mind, I'm cool with that.
post #2426 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim View Post

Nope. It sounds kinda stupidly delightful... I like how the upshot in that review is that we've somehow already entered a nostalgic age for the early-Aughts.
I don't think anybody was expecting this movie to be thoughtful or metaphorical-- more a point a comparison with all the freedom versus security stuff in the Cap movies, or BVS rolling out a hopped-up-on-Ritalin Lex Junior every five minutes to read random pages from "Philosophy for Dummies".

If "Suicide Squad" has absolutely nothing on its mind, I'm cool with that.

 

Same here. If its a good, fun action movie like the trailers promised, and has none of the Snyder Muderverse grim and gritty Miller-ness, Im ok.

Im not expecting the seriousness and darkness of Ostrander's classic SS comic series here, just an entertaining action film with supervillains.

post #2427 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

How condescending of you. I guess Spider-man 2 sucks too.

Youre under the impression the Raid fight scenes were entirely dreamed up by the director huh?


no, of course not. but they have far more of a signature and visceral impact to them and I do think the director was way more involved in their conception and execution then an action sequence that's 90% made by the pre- and post- productions.

 

like I qualified, it's different brands of action and I guess the faithful comic-to-film picturesque action doesn't really hit for me most of the time. so I shouldn't have said the AoU action is "garbage." heat of the moment...

post #2428 of 2785

The action in BvS is far superior to anything in AOU, the Hulk/Stark fight maybe excepted. 

 

I mean, both films are mostly just messes of pixels when it comes to action. But Snyder is easily and clearly a far better visualist and action choreographer than Wheaton.

 

The set up or emotional build up to the title fight in BvS may not work, but the fight itself, as a pure action sequence, is pretty fucking great. Geography is established and consistent. Movements are clear and easily followed. Camera motion and angles are interesting and expertly done. And we feel a lot of the punches and impacts.

post #2429 of 2785
I guess I just don't understand why heavily pre visualized action is bad in your eyes? You say it lacks passion or vision, that it "feels" cold. Agree to disagree, that just strikes me as saying film is better than digital because of unmeasurable qualities. For me Tony's CG suit fending off a fairly real looking giant green monster isn't less thrilling than people trading not real blows, or not really shooting each other in the face because of texture quality. Jurassic Park doesn't fail to thrill me and fill me with wonder because spielberg carefully planned and designed the first dinosaur scene around CG instead of somehow building a real 300 foot dinosaur on set.
post #2430 of 2785

The Stark/Hulk fight in AOU is easily the standout sequence in the film, not least because of Downey's reactions during the fight. 

post #2431 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

The action in BvS is far superior to anything in AOU, the Hulk/Stark fight maybe excepted. 

I mean, both films are mostly just messes of pixels when it comes to action. But Snyder is easily and clearly a far better visualist and action choreographer than Wheaton.

The set up or emotional build up to the title fight in BvS may not work, but the fight itself, as a pure action sequence, is pretty fucking great. Geography is established and consistent. Movements are clear and easily followed. Camera motion and angles are interesting and expertly done. And we feel a lot of the punches and impacts.

This is nutsville. Let's ignore the car chase earlier in the film that is a complete fucking mess and basically a total failure.

The WHY of your action scene from moment to moment second to second is VITAL. To brush aside context and take an action scene in devoid of the why is anti cinema. Watch video game cut scenes of endleas fighting in that case.

Also, the pace of the fight sucks ass. It starts sort of slow and awkward and remains slow and awkward. There is never the urgency and terror there is in Tony diffusing a biological nuclear bomb like the Hulk. It's just two hosses having a punch contest like that Max Landis parody video of The Death of Superman. Let's not even get started on how AoU's tone in the fight is consistent. Batman literally conks Superman over the head with a sink!! It is LAUGHABLE.

That being said, you've got what? The shit car chase, the lame hoss fight and then the Doomsday thing? That's three action scenes in a three hour movie? I find it hard to argue the action is superior when there's so very little of it, and two of those scenes are consistently the most complained about things in the entire movie.

"The car chase sucked. I had no idea what I was looking at, I couldn't even see the batmobile."

"The doomsday fight was worse! What was Zack thinking??"
post #2432 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryoken View Post

 

*Seriously, a team of Marvel villains, posing as heroes in new identities under Zemo's command as they take on an undrground threat the Sokovia Accords prevent the Avengers to get involved with? I would watch that.

 

Yep, I love this idea and if there was ever a studio to do it right, it'll be Marvel. 

 

Just like you I'm obvisuly pro-Marvel but we need damn good DC movies as well! It's a damn shame that the last Superman film we got was in 1978, hell, I even enjoyed most of Superman Returns. 

post #2433 of 2785
Why, why would you make Batmans suit NOT mechanically powered like in the comics? Why did they choose to make it a tin can instead of a strength enhancing movement enhancing shell? UGH!

"You know what? Let's make the big tent pole fight of the movie a little less visually exciting and interesting."
post #2434 of 2785

I've never heard of the people who made the trailer having a hand in the final editing process - http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/suicide-squads-secret-drama-rushed-916693

post #2435 of 2785
Yeah I saw that as weird too. Usually those are third party firms dedicated entirely to marketing, not actually editing the art itself.
post #2436 of 2785
The Doomsday fight is my single least favorite CGI action scene. Just people smashing through, whatever the hell, some ruins. Worse than any TRANSFORMERS fight I've seen.
post #2437 of 2785
I almost hate that they took civilian casualties out of the scene. The point of that story is superman gives his life fighting Doomsday so the city can evacuate and he can save as many lives as possible. In the movie it just reads as "I don't want another MoS so with no civilians around I can REALLY go nuts with the CG machine and people will love it!"

It would have been much more powerful to show the relationship between the legions of people who hate Superman change their view of him as he dies.

Sorry I'm nitpicking again.

If you're somebody who hated the CG action in Ultron that Doomsday fight is like a worst case scenario.
post #2438 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonBaseNick View Post
 

 

Yep, I love this idea and if there was ever a studio to do it right, it'll be Marvel. 

 

Just like you I'm obvisuly pro-Marvel but we need damn good DC movies as well! It's a damn shame that the last Superman film we got was in 1978, hell, I even enjoyed most of Superman Returns. 

I think it would work like a charm, because:

 

-Zemo is already established a soldier and strategic mastermind that would definitely jump at the chance to take down superpowered threats, and even plan his own escape/masterplan while seemingly under control of General Ross. (plus, him having to act undercover would be a good reason to have him in costume).

-Marvel has proven they can introduce new characters and make them resonate/matter to audiences (GOTG comes to mind) in just one film.

-There are plenty of great characters from the comics and MCU to use: Abomination, Justin Hammer (just make him Spy Master), Ghost*, Atlas, Mach V, Radioactive Man, Songbird, Moonstone and so on. Hell, they could strike a deal with Sony and use the Flash Thompson version of Venom.

 

*Hell, I would love to see Ghost onscreen, specially his current version; the design is great and his whole motivation of being a corporate saboteur/hacker with super powers and anti-corporation paranoia would be amazing. Super powered Mr Robot, so to speak.

 

post #2439 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

Why, why would you make Batmans suit NOT mechanically powered like in the comics? 

 

I can't remember the reason, but this decision is specifically discussed in the BTS stuff on the disc.

post #2440 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post

I almost hate that they took civilian casualties out of the scene. The point of that story is superman gives his life fighting Doomsday so the city can evacuate and he can save as many lives as possible. In the movie it just reads as "I don't want another MoS so with no civilians around I can REALLY go nuts with the CG machine and people will love it!"

It would have been much more powerful to show the relationship between the legions of people who hate Superman change their view of him as he dies.

Sorry I'm nitpicking again.
 

 

Yeah, i mean, if there is one thing that stands out about the Hulk/Iron Man and final Ultron battle in AOU, is how the Avengers act and react to civilians in the middle of the battle.

I mean, one movie has Iron Man flying while holding a bathtub with a family inside, the other doesnt.

Is it on the nose a bit? yes, but it absolutely works onscreen. 

post #2441 of 2785
hahahah good action in ultrum?

good comedy!
post #2442 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post
 

 

I can't remember the reason, but this decision is specifically discussed in the BTS stuff on the disc.

 

I think a middle of the road approach, like the suit in Arkham Knight, would had been better and make more sense:

 

 

A combination of armor, flexible materials and exoskeleton.

post #2443 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelM View Post

I can't remember the reason, but this decision is specifically discussed in the BTS stuff on the disc.

Ohhhh I'll have to look this up. That one really annoyed me. I wish I had known before hand batman WOULDN'T be jumping around and swinging iron beams and stuff like that fantastic exciting animated cartoon of DKR. I would have expected much much less from the fight, or should I say a snails pace instead of a sprint.
post #2444 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

hahahah good action in ultrum?

good comedy!

I was starting to wonder where you were! Off with you! Shoo!!!
post #2445 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcnooj82 View Post

hahahah good action in ultrum?

good comedy!

 

No, ASM2 is good comedy!

Super villain inner narration soundtrack! Lighting Coil nusery rhymes!

 

I NEED YOU!!!!!!

post #2446 of 2785
ASM2 is the best!
post #2447 of 2785
So ironical.
post #2448 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freeman View Post
"The car chase sucked. I had no idea what I was looking at, I couldn't even see the batmobile."

"The doomsday fight was worse! What was Zack thinking??"

Wait, BvS had a car chase?  That's how forgettable that movie is...

post #2449 of 2785
Nothing in ASM2 trumps the closeup of Electro's tooth gap fixing during his transformation.

The eels perform orthodontic corrections, they fix a diastema!
post #2450 of 2785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raynis View Post

Nothing in ASM2 trumps the closeup of Electro's tooth gap fixing during his transformation.

The eels perform orthodontic corrections, they fix a diastema!

 

I guess Spidey's tiny webbing hand at least felt like an artistic choice.

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